Government and Media
Price of Paradise · Hawaii Public Radio · aired 1994-03-01
Guests: Diane Chang (Senior Editor and Editorial Page Editor, Honolulu Star-Bulletin); Jeff Portnoy (media lawyer)
Duration: 00:30:30

[00:00:03] Randall Roth: Good morning, I'm Randy Roth, host of the Price of Paradise Radio Show. My guests this week are Diane Chang, senior editor and editorial page editor of the Honolulu Star-Bulletin, and two-term president of the Society of Professional Journalists in Hawaii and Jeff Portnoy, a practicing lawyer who specializes in media law and recently published a book on media law in Hawaii. Diane, is there sunshine in Hawaii government?

[00:00:26] Diane Chang: Well, I joined the Star-Bulletin early last year and I have to admit I was unpleasantly surprised at the reaction of government to media coverage. I think in a way, it's it's sort of a compliment to the investigative reports and the analysis and the commentary that we're doing. We are hitting some nerves, but unfortunately, government is reacting in a way by trying to clamp down on coverage, harass us, intimidate us and and do a lot of things in order to get around the the First Amendment and the Sunshine law.

[00:01:00] Randall Roth: Jeff, is that your perception of what's going on out there?

[00:01:02] Jeff Portnoy: I think generally it is. There's been a major improvement in this particular state government over the last eight years under Governor Ohe and the office of information practices. Previous to this administration, this state government was one of the most closed in the country, trying to keep the press and the public from finding out anything about what government was doing, keeping government records secret, closing meetings to the public. There's been major improvement but there is a long way to go.

[00:01:31] Randall Roth: So Diane, in saying that it's not particularly good, that's that's all relative?

[00:01:36] Jeff Portnoy: Well, I think it is. I mean, uh, there's just this frustration on the part of the media and the public many times in getting access to government records and government meetings. I think there is a healthy relationship between the media and government. Government would prefer to do things quickly, they would prefer to do things without the glare of the public. On the other hand, our country is based upon the public getting involved, even if it makes legislation more difficult, if it makes meetings last longer. But there just needs to be a reorientation on the part of many state bureaucrats that their job is to do the public's job, not to do their own job and they have to just be more in tune with the fact that government has to operate in the open and the public has a right to know what's going on in government.

[00:02:19] Randall Roth: Diane, what in particular would you like to see government do differently with respect to the media?

[00:02:25] Diane Chang: Well, for one thing I'd I'd sure like to them to understand the difference between government officials paid by taxpayer dollars and the media. I think they get very frustrated about it, which has led to this this newest attempt to make the editor and publisher of the papers disclose their salaries, um disclose their assets and really, when you think about it, they they can't understand the concept that we're there as the watchdog of the public to let the watchdog the people know what's happening in their government, the laws that these people are enacting and they they can't seem to see the difference between that and between what we're doing and they say, hey, John Flanagan, how much are you making? Well, it's none of their business which how much they're make we're making.

[00:03:10] Randall Roth: Well, the media has an awful lot of power. Uh, wouldn't it be important uh if not to know what they're making, at least to know what investments they've made, to know whether or not there's a conflict of some sort?

[00:03:20] Diane Chang: Well, all of the newspapers and most of the major media do have ethics uh policies for their organizations and we do police ourselves very stringently and strictly. We do not accept gifts. We we uh do look for any kinds of problems that may arise because people would say we have a conflict, so we do look at that very seriously.

[00:04:33] Randall Roth: Should the public simply trust that that's being done or is there some way that the public can uh can know [unintelligible — audio glitch]'s being watched closely?

[00:05:22] Diane Chang: Jeff, help me out here. We pay you.

[00:05:25] Jeff Portnoy: I think I think you've hit the nail on the head. The real question is not whether the media should do something but who's to decide whether they should do it. I think a legitimate argument can be made that the media should have uh canons of ethics that they should follow certain rules and procedures. People can legitimately debate whether you should know whether the writer of the story has a personal interest in that story, but those decisions really should be made by the media themselves under our system of laws, not the government. And the conflict is that the government thinks that it has a right to legislate what kinds of disclosure should be made by reporters, what kinds of disclosure should be made by editors and we all know that once the legislature and the government gets involved in that, you don't have a free press anymore. So the real question is not really whether it should be done, but who should make the decision. I come down squarely on the uh side of the media making those decisions, whether they make them rightfully or wrongfully, they should be the ones to determine that. If they make a mistake then they can be subject in certain court suits to damages, etc. It's when the government thinks that it's going to tell the media how to do its business that we run into trouble.

[00:05:59] Randall Roth: I see. There there seems to be a lot of concern here in Hawaii about this thing called the joint operating agreement. As I understand it, it's basically a partnership between the advertiser and the Star-Bulletin, and it's made possible because of an exemption from federal antitrust laws. Because of it, there are two newspapers, and I think that's the explanation as to why it's a good thing. But there are a lot of people here in the community who think it's a bad thing. Jeff, why is that?

[00:06:24] Jeff Portnoy: There are a lot of people who think it's a bad thing. Well, there are a lot of people who don't think that any business should be given a special status that other businesses don't have. And clearly, the two newspapers here have been given by the federal government the ability to join together some of their business uh aspects, not their editorial aspects. It's important to recognize the two newspapers have completely separate and independent news and editorial staffs, but they've combined the business side of the printing of newspapers and they have been given that right by the federal government. What it required was that at the time of application back in the sixties, one of the two newspapers be a so-called failing newspaper. That is a newspaper that was consistently losing money, a newspaper that would go out of business but for the ability to combine its business with the stronger newspaper. Ironically, back in the sixties it was the advertiser that was the failing newspaper and had it not combined its business side with the Star-Bulletin today, we probably just have the Honolulu Star-Bulletin. Might be good for Diane, but it might not be uh so good for the community. So under a federal exemption, the two newspapers combined. We're not unique, there are still 18 JOAs in the United States. What it has done, I think nobody can legitimately argue, is maintain two newspapers in a city that otherwise would only have one. In city after city in the United States, the afternoon newspapers have died off, leaving just the morning newspaper. We now have two separate editorial voices in Hawaii and just have to look at the editorials every date day to know that Diane's editorials don't agree necessarily with that of the advertiser. It also means, of course, that they've been able to combine and selling their advertising, etc. If there was no JOA, there'd only be one newspaper in Honolulu and that I think is the benefit of the joint operating agreement.

[00:07:10] Randall Roth: Let me ask you about that Diane. In preparing for this show, I talked to several people and and one of them said that the Star-Bulletin used to be the relatively conservative voice and the Advertiser the relatively liberal voice, but that they've more or less moved toward the middle to where they aren't that distinguishable at this point in time. Would you agree with that?

[00:07:29] Diane Chang: Well, the interesting thing is I get letters to the editor, some saying that we're too liberal so um they're canceling their subscription or not reading us anymore and we also get letters saying that we're much too conservative for their taste. So in my mind, that means we're doing a good job because we're basically taking it issue by issue and looking at it, um every issue and we're not just blanket one way or the other.

[00:07:51] Randall Roth: But isn't there a common theme? How would you describe it if you were to put uh a label or a series of labels on on the Star book the Star-Bulletin's voice?

[00:08:00] Diane Chang: Okay. Well, I guess the biggest difference between the two in terms of the editorial pages which um I oversee, is I guess I bring to the Star-Bulletin a different perspective than the advertiser has. I'm the first woman and I believe I'm the first non-Caucasian to hold the title of editorial page editor at either daily newspaper, so I bring that perspective and I also bring the perspective of being locally born and raised. And my feeling is what's the sense of being a woman editorial page editor if you don't talk about women's issues or children's issues or family issues? And what's the sense of about being born in Hawaii if you don't talk in editorials about the importance of keeping the young people here, of finding jobs, of keeping the economy such that it will keep people here. So I think that's basically the biggest difference I see with the two papers.

[00:08:47] Randall Roth: When I read an editorial in the Star-Bulletin, am I reading Diane Chang's thoughts or are there times when somebody else's thoughts find their way into those editorials?

[00:08:56] Diane Chang: Well, I oversee the section but actually the editorials reflect the opinion of the editor and publisher in our case it's John Flanagan. But I see all of the editorials and I think I would have I would have a problem with running some of them if I didn't agree with it, and I might have to talk to the publisher about it, but I I think I agree with most of the editorials that we run.

[00:09:17] Randall Roth: You're listening to the Price of Paradise Radio Show. I'm Randy Roth and my guests this week are Diane Chang, editorial page editor of the Honolulu Star-Bulletin, and Jeff Portnoy, a practicing lawyer who specializes in media law. Well Jeff, getting back to the joint operating agreement, is a copy of that agreement available to the public?

[00:09:35] Jeff Portnoy: It probably is. We made a copy available to the legislature just a few weeks ago when they asked for it and therefore it's a public document. It's not a big secret. It's something that's probably available in Washington where the JOA is reviewed. It's available locally. I'm not sure it's something that if you just walked up to the desk at the news building and asked for, you would get. But uh there's no big secret about it and uh I don't see any reason why someone who wouldn't have a legitimate interest in seeing it couldn't have an opportunity to do so.

[00:10:01] Randall Roth: What about the financial statements? Can somebody find out how much money is being made right now?

[00:10:06] Jeff Portnoy: Nope.

[00:10:06] Randall Roth: Why?

[00:10:08] Jeff Portnoy: Because they're private businesses. And to the extent that you're not entitled to walk into the local uh gas station and ask to see the finances that the gas station earned. Gannett is a publicly traded company and to the extent it is it has to produce and make available information to the public and that information is available but to the extent that any aspect of Gannett, for example, the Hawaii company that runs the advertiser or the Star-Bulletin which is not a publicly traded company, that information is is private. And one can argue that somehow the newspapers uh should be required to do something that no other private business is required to do but no, you would not be entitled to it and no, I'm sure they wouldn't give it to you.

[00:10:47] Randall Roth: Why is it uh that when I talk to people here in the community who who are I think knowledgeable in this area, there seems to be a perception that Gannett really owns both papers, that the person that they sold the Star-Bulletin to is is somewhat of a front. Uh why would there be people who have that impression?

[00:11:05] Jeff Portnoy: Why? Because there's a number of politicians who want people to believe that, there are other people who simply want people to believe that for their own purposes. The truth of the matter is that in order for Gannett to buy the Honolulu Advertiser under the JOA, it could not simply do that without finding a buyer for the Star-Bulletin. It took a long time. Uh Gannett looked for a long time for people to buy the Star-Bulletin and by the way, it proves that there's not a lot of money to be made even in JOA newspapers since there wasn't a line outside the news building to buy the Star-Bulletin. If this was such a money maker as Mayor Fosse seems to think, you would have thought he would have bought the newspaper. But clearly, it was difficult to find a buyer. Mr. Phillips to my knowledge, and I was not involved in that, but Mr. Phillips is a newspaper owner who has a number of smaller newspapers, some of which he's bought from Gannett along the East Coast and he was able to structure a deal that made it appropriate for him to purchase the Star-Bulletin. If no buyer had been found for the Star-Bulletin then either Gannett would not have been able to buy the advertiser or there would be no Star-Bulletin if Gannett simply decided the heck with the JOA, we'll simply have a morning newspaper and we'll publish it all day and we'll be in one newspaper town. But I think Gannett was looking to keep the JOA going, thought that having a second newspaper was important and it is because all anybody needs to do is pick up those two newspapers and you will find different stories, different cartoons, different features, different editorial policies and it's good for city, the 11th largest city to have two major newspapers. One last thing Randy, no, one last thing, there's a lot of other media outlets in town that we have to talk about, there are other newspapers on this island, other newspapers on other islands, radio like this, television, cable. There's a lot of ability to get your message out and to get your advertising out other than the two newspapers. Thank you very much.

[00:12:52] Randall Roth: Diane, I noticed that you were smiling when the mayor's name was mentioned. Why does Mayor Fosse seem to dislike the press in Hawaii so much?

[00:13:00] Diane Chang: Well, I get a big kick out of the fact that he always criticizes the Star-Bulletin's editor editorials for being too opinionated when that's what editorials are supposed to be in the first place. Um, basically, I, you know, I think that the mayor really likes the papers and really secretly loves the press because he because he pays so much attention to us, to us. He mentions us all the time. Now he has his own public access television show, he has a radio show, and I think he even wanted to buy the Star-Bulletin at one point so secretly I think he loves the papers and the media.

[00:13:37] Randall Roth: Well, the mayor wanted me to ask why the Star-Bulletin in 1990 would write a complimentary editorial about his $100 million per golf course permit fee and then in 1993 refer to him as an extortionist and talk about legal blackmail, is that just a change in personality at the Star-Bulletin, Diane?

[00:13:54] Diane Chang: Yeah, my smart Alec um response to that is I wasn't there in 1990, Mr. Mayor. But um, seriously, um So the voice does change from time to time. Well actually, the Star-Bulletin does have some long-time stances on important issues like mass transit, gun control, legalized gambling, and so we abide by that long-time stance. There are some recently formulated decisions we've had to make on editorials like gays in the military, same sex marriages, NAFTA. Um in a situation that the mayor is talking about perhaps um business kinds of editorials on the way he runs government, there's a little bit more leeway there, but I I think definitely, as he's hinting at, the editorial page editor does have some say in the stances and so let's leave it at that before I get myself into more trouble with the mayor. Thank you.

[00:14:44] Randall Roth: Jeff, I'm told you gave a talk recently where you talked about the top threats to the first amendment here in Hawaii. Can you sum up what those threats are?

[00:14:53] Jeff Portnoy: Well I can. I we can start with the mayor. Uh the mayor has been uh a very difficult person to deal with if you try to represent the newspapers in particular. I think what started out frankly is something that might have been a game with the mayor uh and and also was probably based upon some legitimate views has really becoming a tirade on the part of the mayor. Every day on his radio show, he's been ripping the newspapers apart. I understand that I've been privileged to join that group of things that he rips apart in the morning. I have to start listening. Uh I haven't yet. I'm sorry Mr. Mayor. Neither do I. But uh he is a real threat. I think he thinks that by going after the newspapers he has found something that might get him some votes. I think he's wrong. He's become very violent and vindictive in his attacks on the on the newspapers and I think he's a real threat. There are some members of the legislature who would be able to join that club uh just in this last session. A Senator Milton Holt who you know has had some problems that have been written up in the newspapers and on television, has decided to kill off the messenger rather than perhaps look inside to see why these problems have occurred that's gotten them all this publicity and so he's tried to pass some legislation that would tax the newspapers and do other things. Fortunately, just this week in the House, I think some very enlightened House members, who may not agree with everything the newspapers do, realized you can't tax newspapers out of existence. It's been unconstitutional for 230 years. The amazing thing is that the state Senate got 20 people to vote to tax newspapers. It really is scary when you think about it.

[00:16:25] Randall Roth: Let me stop you just for a second and ask Diane. What was your reaction to that, Diane? It it seemed to me that this was a a patently unconstitutional tax that they were proposing and yet as Jeff indicates, 20 people in our state Senate voted for that. What message are they sending to you?

[00:16:40] Diane Chang: Mhm. Well, I I also wanted to talk a little bit about the mayor because I think, getting back to the mayor, my favorite personality. Um, he's very intelligent in in that he when he says these nasty things about the newspapers, a lot of people believe him. And so the things that we are writing about that we're disclosing about the way that he runs the the city, um, some people might discount that, well, they're just saying that because they don't like the the mayor, because the mayor said that we don't, you know, we don't like him. So, you know, in a way that's that's very shrewd and cunning on his part. And the second instance though, I think the legislature is basically um, as Jeff said, being defensive and instead of really looking at some of the problems and some of the methods that they're running the government, they're saying, hey, we don't like what you're saying, why can't you say good things about us? Well, it's not our job to say good things about them, it's our job to critique them because it's taxpayer money and basically this is a government don't you agree, Jeff?

[00:17:41] Jeff Portnoy: Yeah. Well, you know, you have to look at what's happened. Last year, for example, the legislature tried to pass a bill that would have required everybody that works for a newspaper to divulge their personal assets and all other kinds of aspects of their personal life. I mean, it was so ludicrous that the national media picked up on it to say what is going on in the Hawaii State Legislature. You know, where do they come off trying to impose this kind of government on the media? Now, we're not the only place where people have problems with the media, but no other state legislature would even attempt to do this. Fortunately, the bill died, but they passed the resolution saying it'd be a nice thing. Diane Chang, if you tell us so, who your mortgage is with and how much money you still owe.

[00:19:00] Randall Roth: unique legislation. There are others. I want to say one other thing. You asked me about threats to the media. The media itself, they're not immune from being a threat to themselves. They have to tighten up their act. The public is getting down on the media. You know, they're ranked down there with legislators and lawyers down at the bottom there, Randy. Oh my gosh. On who people respect, it never used to be like that. The media used to be at the top of the most respected institution, you know, Walter Cronkite and people like that, the Diane Changs. Now they're down there with us. And why? Well, because the public is tired of a lot of arrogant media.

[00:19:34] Randall Roth: They want a media that's responsive. If they complain about a story, they deserve to have an explanation of why the story was made. Sloppy journalists, what I like to call the Butafuco, Harding and Bobbitt you know, group. People are getting tired of that. They're getting tired of cameras taking a look at a dead body lying in the street and putting it on television so that the relatives have to look at a terrible tragedy. So the media itself is a threat to its future. Let me remind the listeners that you're listening to the Price of Paradise Radio show. I'm Randy Roth, and my guests this week are Diane Chang, editorial page editor of the Honolulu Star-Bulletin, and Jeff Portnoy, practicing lawyer who specializes in media law.

[00:20:09] Randall Roth: Well, Diane, you journalists have just been compared to we lawyers. How do you feel about that?

[00:20:14] Diane Chang: I'm totally insulted, Jeff.

[00:20:16] Randall Roth: Tell us what you think of Jeff's comment. Want to hear a good journalist, Jeff? No, no. I don't have any.

[00:20:20] Diane Chang: Well, I think that there there is disillusionment with the press, and and there should be. I think the public and the press should never be satisfied with the job that the press is doing. Um, I think maybe like Jeff mentioned, the public's biggest gripe with the press is that we give too much airtime or column inches to sensational news. Um, but that doesn't mean you you kill the messenger. And if there really is disgust with this national inquirer, hard copy kind of mentality, then, you know, the public should boycott these outlets of journalism. But unfortunately or I don't know if unfortunately is the word, these kinds of media are very popular.

[00:20:56] Randall Roth: And you're talking about television now?

[00:20:58] Diane Chang: Well, also um national inquirer type newspapers.

[00:21:01] Randall Roth: But not the Star-Bulletin.

[00:21:03] Diane Chang: Um

[00:21:05] Randall Roth: I'm curious, Jeff, what do you think? Does the advertiser in the Star-Bulletin share in some of the blame that you were describing earlier, or or not? Well, some maybe. I really do think that the media in Hawaii is very good, very solid, from top to bottom, with very rare exceptions. The people working in it are dedicated. And I'm not just saying that because they pay my bills. I really believe it. There are Diane Diane is smiling. She told me earlier that not paying her bills actually after this. That's right. Diane said talk is cheap until you call Jeff. Go ahead and finish. But there are exceptions. I mean, there are exceptions locally. Look, the television stations are fighting for ratings. You can always tell when it's rating time. You get the story on prostitutes and Waikiki for a full week, let's go undercover. And you know that it's February, May, or November. It's sweeps time.

[00:21:49] Randall Roth: The newspapers, too, look, there's been a change. There's the there's the USA kind of journalism that some people don't like. And I get the USA today, and I read the advertiser Star-Bulletin. But some people think our two newspapers are becoming, you know, too concerned about the food and the comics and not enough about investigative reporting. But the point is, I think generally the media in this state, in this city, do a very good job of keeping people informed. Diane, as editorial page editor, one of your jobs or I guess at the heart of your job is keeping your finger on the pulse of what's going on here in Hawaii. Are you optimistic about the future of Hawaii?

[00:22:24] Diane Chang: I If you had asked me that a year ago, I I would have had a different answer. But just by looking at the hundreds of letters to the editor that we get every week, I am more optimistic now. I'm seeing a revival in the the spirit of the people in of an interest in improving government, of actually speaking out and saying this is wrong. We're not going to take it anymore, it has to change. So I think I I am more optimistic about it. Yes.

[00:22:50] Randall Roth: Jeff, is there one misconception about the public that you'd like to clear up here? About the public? I'm sorry, the public has about the media. Thank you. Um the one, huh? That's a very, very good question. A typical legal professor's question to his class. Uh I think the one misperception is, yeah, that the media is dominated by a single ownership in Hawaii and a single viewpoint. I think that's a wrong, terribly wrong misconception. There are multiple owners of multiple media outlets. There are ways to get all kinds of views across. And I think that that's the one misconception. It's not dominated by a single newspaper or single television station, single owner. And that there's real diversity in the media in Hawaii.

[00:23:32] Randall Roth: Diane, we've got 30 seconds. If you could change one thing here in Hawaii to make it better, what would it be?

[00:23:38] Diane Chang: Well, I think um it's too much to hope for our legislators understanding the value and importance of a free press. So I think I'd like to wish for a a reinvigorated electorate, one that takes the time to study the issues, to vote and be responsive um to the people we're paying to make the laws and to run our government, just to get more involved and really believe that they can make a difference because they have already in so many instances, Sharon Himeno, um Milton Holt, and others, and they can continue to make the difference. Choose to vote and be responsive, to the people we're paying to make the laws and to run our government, just to get more involved, and really believe that they can make a difference because they have already in so many instances. Sharon Himeno, Milton Holt, and others, and they can continue to make a difference.

[00:24:07] Randall Roth: That sounds good to me. Thank you, Diane. Thank you, Jeff. Thank you.

[00:24:08] Jeff Portnoy: That sounds good to me. Thank you, Diane. Thank you, Jeff.

[00:24:10] Randall Roth: Thank you. My guest this week were Diane Chang of the Honolulu Star Bulletin and media lawyer, Jeff Portnoy. This week's show was produced by Jill Senner with technical assistance from Mark Wagner. You've been listening to The Price of Paradise radio show. I'm Randy Roth. Aloha. My guests this week were Diane Chang of the Honolulu Star-Bulletin and media lawyer Jeff Portnoy. This week's show was produced by Jill Senner with technical assistance from Mark Wagner. You've been listening to the Price of Paradise Radio show. I'm Randy Roth. Aloha. This program is produced by the consortium of 72 Price of Paradise authors in cooperation with Hawaii Public Radio. The Price of Paradise is a best-selling two volume book series that has become a must read for every concerned citizen of Hawaii. Please tune in next week when Randall Roth and his guests will take on another question of importance to listeners in Hawaii. Cassette copies of this program are available from Hawaii Public Radio for $10 by calling 955-8821. For a listing of past shows and guests, send a stamped self-addressed envelope to Price of Paradise Radio Show, Hawaii Public Radio, 738 Kaheka Street, Honolulu, 96814.