Hawaii's Newspapers and the JOA (Joint Operating Agreement)
Price of Paradise · Hawaii Public Radio · aired 1994-03-12
Guests: Gerry Keir (editor, The Honolulu Advertiser); John Flanagan (publisher and editor, Honolulu Star-Bulletin)
Duration: 00:30:27

[00:00:00] Randall Roth: Good morning. I'm Randy Roth, host of the Price of Paradise radio show. My guests this week are the editors of Honolulu's two daily newspapers, Jerry Karr of the Advertiser, and John Flanagan of the Star-Bulletin. A lot of cities bigger than Honolulu are down to one major newspaper, and yet we have two, both of whom appear to be financially healthy. Just about everyone agrees that this is because of something called the joint operating agreement. It's a partnership of sorts between the Advertiser and Star-Bulletin that would violate federal anti-trust laws if it weren't for an exemption received from Congress over 20 years ago. Some people are critical of this exemption, saying it has lessened competition and led to excessive profits. Jerry, what do you think?

[00:00:41] Gerry Keir: Well, I think you uh you hit it right on the head. If it weren't for the joint operating agreement, we wouldn't have two newspapers in Honolulu. Uh the press in this country is exempt from a lot of things under the laws of economic, under the First Amendment, but not exempt from the laws of economics. And newspapers, metropolitan newspapers in particular, have been dying like flies all over the country. And for the most part, as you've said, the only cities where there are two competing editorial voices are cities in which joint operating agreements operate, including Honolulu.

[00:01:10] Randall Roth: John, why is that so important?

[00:01:12] John Flanagan: Well, first, uh let's talk about why it happens. And why it happens really is that uh advertisers tend to put all their advertising dollars with a dominant medium and it doesn't take very much dominance to see the slide of dollars from one newspaper to the competitor and when they slide, they seem to all slide. And what happens is, in many cities, they just don't have uh enough money for the number two publication to continue public to continue to operate. And uh way back in 1961, it looked like that was what was going to happen here in Honolulu, as uh as advertising dollars started to slip from one newspaper to the other.

[00:01:53] Randall Roth: Why is it that important though to have two newspapers?

[00:01:58] John Flanagan: Well, the putting out a newspaper relies a lot on on news judgment and uh it's a very subjective thing. And uh the newspapers in this country really exist and have their First Amendment protection because they exercise that kind of news judgment. And it's it's felt that the more different voices that that we hear, and the more different opinions that we uh get to choose from, uh the better our choices will be. And that's the way the American system works.

[00:02:31] Randall Roth: If if it is so important to have those voices, why would there be so much discussion in the community right now? Uh for example, Senator Holt has talked about the joint operating agreement as being a legal loophole and he's complaining it's led to excessive profits and he's proposing a a special tax on newspapers. Uh Jerry, why would there be this sentiment if having two good two newspapers is so important?

[00:02:53] Gerry Keir: Oh, I think that that you always have tension between public officials and the press, and the most prominent example in in Honolulu uh dating back long before Senator Holt was in office is the the long-running dispute between the mayor and at various times, the Star-Bulletin and us or both of us, uh in which the messenger gets rapped by the people about whom the messages are delivered. Uh that's not necessarily unhealthy for there to be that kind of tension. Uh we happen to think that the bill going through the legislature this year aimed at uh taxing not only just one industry, but one part of one industry is is unconstitutional. But uh the bill is still floating its way through. Uh we hope it won't pass, but we don't think it's constitutional if it does.

[00:03:38] Randall Roth: John, you agree with that?

[00:03:40] John Flanagan: I think that's a pretty good summary. Uh the the Constitution is pretty specific that Congress, meaning not only the United States Congress, but state legislatures, shall uh pass no law to abridge the the freedom of the press and that that right really is meant to help the system work and help keep newspapers operating and as as forums for ideas. Uh just because we are a forum for ideas, often our our ideas come into conflict with those who are in power and one of the things that happens is people in power try to find ways to punish the press. This has been happening since uh before the First Amendment really.

[00:04:21] Gerry Keir: I I would add one point on that uh Randy, is that uh newspapers are not exempt from the same laws of general applicability that everybody else is subject to. We're subject to zoning laws. We do pay corporate income taxes on the income that the company earns. Uh we're not treated any different from anybody else with the exception of the limited antitrust exemption that covers the the joint part of our operations, which is not the newsrooms. It's the the presses, it's the circulation, it's the sales of advertising. It's clear that if back in the 1960s, the advertiser, which was on the verge of bankruptcy, had decided to sell out to the Star-Bulletin or fold and leave the Star-Bulletin as the monopoly newspaper in Honolulu, that would have been perfectly legal. Would have been no question about it. But because there's this partial combination of business functions, antitrust questions were raised and and Congress decided that the importance of keeping two voices alive outweighed the antitrust considerations. But when when you talk about the legislature taxing us, it's not that we're asking for a tax exemption beyond which other corp beyond which other corporations have. We pay our taxes just like anybody else.

[00:05:28] Randall Roth: Are copies of this joint operating agreement available to the public, Jerry?

[00:05:32] Gerry Keir: Yeah, there's a public filing with the Department of Justice in Washington DC, and we also have copies of it and we've said in the paper that anybody who wants to come down and take a look at it is welcome to review the public filing in our office.

[00:05:43] Randall Roth: Is there editorial competition between the two papers, John?

[00:05:48] John Flanagan: There's a very strong editorial competition between the two newspapers. Uh probably more more so because of our joint agency. Uh both both newsrooms uh are very sensitive to charges that we don't editorially compete and as a result uh if anything we overreact to that. Uh we uh find no greater pleasure than to beat the advertiser on a good story that that maybe they had the first crack at and I know uh that they feel the same way.

[00:06:17] Randall Roth: Somebody that I talked to about this show said that it's his perception that the Star-Bulletin historically was the conservative voice, the advertiser historically was the liberal voice, but that somehow they've managed to meet and that now both papers are are pretty indistinguishable in terms of their editorial voice. Would you simply disagree with that?

[00:06:37] John Flanagan: I think both newspapers are pretty independent. Uh one thing that we absolutely don't do is ever discuss editorial stances or how we're going to cover something or what kind of an opinion we're going to have about it between the Star-Bulletin and the Advertiser. Uh if there is a uh concurrence, if we do agree on something, um it's it's kind of a coincidence uh we both managed to come to the same opinion uh but we've done so totally independently. Um I think our position historically has been uh more conservative maybe than it is now and I think that just reflects the group of editors that we've we've got working at the paper now. We try to be independent and uh form our own judgment on political issues and uh I'm not sure how the what what the policy is at the advertiser, but occasionally we might we might actually agree on something.

[00:07:35] Randall Roth: I see. But Jerry, I'm curious. Uh the editorials are not signed by anyone individual. Uh I assume that it is a team approach at the advertiser as well as at the Star-Bulletin. How do you work that out? How do you determine what the position of the paper is going to be?

[00:07:49] Gerry Keir: It's a collaborative process which really uh evolves over time depending on the people involved. But on any given day, the folks that are involved in in writing our editorials and deciding our editorial policy meet in the morning at the advertiser and we talk about what's in been in the news in the last 24 hours or the last few days, it might be worthy of comment and we kick it around. Uh we'll uh disagree among ourselves, argue, try to reach some kind of consensus position. That includes myself, Jerry Pur, Jerry Buros, the editorial page editor and his staff on the editorial page, and on major issues where we feel that it's really uh important to bounce it off our publisher, uh we'll discuss it with him, although he doesn't see editorial every editorial before it goes in the paper. Uh we try to reach consensus, and we very often do.

[00:08:38] Randall Roth: You're listening to the Price of Paradise radio show. I'm Randy Roth, and my guests this week are John Flanagan, editor and publisher of the Star-Bulletin, and Jerry Karr, editor of the Advertiser. In 1991, the Media Council did an extensive study of the papers here in Honolulu, and among other things, they recommended that more money be spent on on the news that, in my words, the papers were a little skinny. Uh John, what do you think of that suggestion?

[00:09:03] John Flanagan: Well, as an as an editor, uh I think that the more news the the better up to a certain point when [unintelligible — audio glitch] whole gets so big, there's no way to fill it, then you might be in trouble. But uh since 1991 and actually starting uh way back in 1987, uh when I first came here, we've worked to increase the size of the uh the the number of news columns in the Star-Bulletin and year to year, I think we succeeded in doing that. Uh just last year, we uh added five pages to our Saturday paper, which frankly was on the thin side, and uh overall uh we've added additional pages of news coverage for every week of the year uh just about every year. So that we we do agree that the newspapers were on the thin side and we've taken steps to uh to bulk them up.

[00:10:01] Gerry Keir: Jerry, same thing at the advertiser? Yeah, no editor in his right mind would ever say he's got enough of what we call news hole, the space to put the news in the papers. Who who makes that decision? It's it's it's a it's a business decision. Uh just like anything else, the money that comes in the door determines how much money can go out the door, and the amount of money we make in advertising and circulation uh determines the amount of staff we can hire and the amount of newsprint we use for space. But in the last 12 or 14 months, we've increased the the weekday news space in the Advertiser by about 10%. It's 10% uh from the time of that Media Council study, which was done, not by the Media Council itself, but by three mainland editors. Uh space has gone up well over 10% in the Advertiser.

[00:10:45] Randall Roth: I I grew up thinking that newspapers uh cover the news, and in preparing for this show, somebody told me that uh like it or not, newspapers set the public agenda. Uh would you agree with that statement, Jerry?

[00:10:57] Gerry Keir: Uh I hope it's true in a very good sense, and that is that a good newspaper, if it's doing its job, if it has uh its fingers on the pulse of its community and understands what's going on, is covering the issues that matter to that community. And uh in doing so, uh as someone once said, newspapers are not necessarily very good at telling people what to think, as we try to do on our editorial pages, but we're pretty good at telling people what to think about by the decisions we make about which issues to focus on. And we've been trying very consciously to stay really in touch with all elements of this community and focus our coverage on the issues that matter to Hawaii. And if by doing that, we can help to set the agenda for public debate in the legislature and in election campaigns and around breakfast tables all over Hawaii, I think we'll be doing a service, and in the process, we'll probably sell more newspapers.

[00:11:48] John Flanagan: John, is your thinking at Star-Bulletin roughly the same on that? Yeah, I think Jerry put his finger on the key thing, which is not so much that that the newspapers set the agenda, but that the newspapers uh are sort of the catalyst. They they go out into the community and try to find out what people are worried about, what they're concerned with, what their interests are, and then provide the forum for the those issues to be discussed. Um there's a there's a balance certainly since uh since government also tries to set the agenda. And sometimes there's a conflict and the the newspapers can be the meeting post point between the the public agenda expressed in news stories, letters to the editor, polls, whatever, and the and the political agenda which is often expressed in other ways.

[00:12:35] Randall Roth: How how much do you rely upon polls in determining just what people are concerned about?

[00:12:41] John Flanagan: Uh relatively little. I mean if you don't ask the question, you won't get the answer. So if you make a list of 10 things and they're things that people aren't very concerned about, you might be able to rank those 10 things. But uh we do find polls to be very fascinating. Uh we've thrown out some questions uh that we thought might get pretty boring 50/50 split kind of answers and have been very amazed by the results. Uh I think it's news uh when people feel strongly about uh an issue and they we're able to measure that and let people know how other people feel.

[00:13:05] Randall Roth: Uh Jerry, I've noticed more and more in the newspaper that right in the middle of a news story, uh Joe Public or Mary Citizen, somebody from the community that doesn't necessarily have a position that's related to that particular news story will be quoted. What's the thinking on on that approach?

[00:13:42] Gerry Keir: The thinking on that is that uh that officialdom, whether we're talking about elected officials or appointed heads of departments or CEOs of corporations are not the only people who have opinions worthy of being consideration in the considered by the community and that their voices need to be heard in the newspaper as well. And that uh they can serve as kind of a reality check. When you when you cover big events that tend to be uh shaped and framed and described by officials, sometimes you can lose track of the impact that they have on the ordinary folks that buy our newspapers and we want to make sure that the the voices of those folks are reflected are reflected in our news columns and that's why you're seeing more of it.

[00:14:22] Randall Roth: Jefferson and Madison uh said that the press should be a watchdog on government. Uh how would the two of you rate the print and TV media in Hawaii on this one, Jerry?

[00:14:33] Gerry Keir: Well, I'm the uh I'm pretty proud of the work that the advertiser has done over the years in investigative journalism, particularly our Jim Dooley uh has gotten a uh has brought a lot of things to light that wouldn't have been done and has caused some uh changes and some court trials and some changes to laws like the state procurement law uh that I think have been a real service. And the fact that the media are out there doing investigative work, I think helps to uh to keep people honest because they worry about it. That said, uh have have we always been done the 100% of the job that we could have done, maybe not, but uh we work at it, we keep working at it, and we think we've provided a service.

[00:15:13] John Flanagan: John? I think we're doing better and better. Uh one of the other findings of the uh Media Council report about the the state of Hawaii's newspapers was that uh the the editors who rated us felt that there wasn't much investigative journalism being done. Um since then, we've added a couple of people, uh Ian Lind and Richard Baka assigned to do investigative reporting. Um and we've been doing more and more of it. Uh I think part of the response uh that we've gotten to this has been some of the sentiment in the legislature uh aimed at trying to to to curb us a little bit and uh we're hearing some frustration uh from government about the level of of uh of interest or or or the the uncovering of of what government is is doing and um I think that shows that we're doing a better and better job. I can't really talk about what what the uh broadcast media are doing. Uh I'm not a I'm not probably a good judge, uh but I think overall, my impression is that it's a it's a fertile field out there and that a lot more could be done.

[00:16:34] Randall Roth: You're listening to the Price of Paradise radio show. I'm Randy Roth, and my guests this week are John Flanagan, editor and publisher of the Star-Bulletin and Jerry Karr, editor of the Advertiser. Well, I'm told that there are surveys that show that 18 to 30-year-old people don't read the newspapers. Uh Jerry, is is that true?

[00:16:53] Gerry Keir: It's true. It's uh a lot more true than we would like it to be. Are they watching TV or what are they doing? Uh the sad part is that there's a growing number of people both in this community, in this nation, uh which aren't being expo who aren't being exposed to news from any source. Uh the surveys that we see tell us that the people who read newspapers also tend to be uh watchers of TV news programs, that they tend to do both. But that more and more people, particularly more and more younger people, just don't have an interest in news from any source and we're concerned about that and newspapers and newspapers associations all over the country have been looking for ways to combat that trend. It used to be said that uh when that the biggest cure for young people not reading newspapers is the aging process, that they'd get to 25, they'd get married, they'd have kids, their kids would get in school, they'd get more interested in the community, and as a result, they'd start reading the newspaper. That age cutoff seems to be getting older and older and older all the time and it's a concern for us. And frankly, I think it should be a concern for society when there's a larger and larger body of people who take no interest in public affairs.

[00:18:00] Randall Roth: John, you agree with that?

[00:18:02] John Flanagan: Yeah, I do. And and uh I think the the last part of Jerry's answer was particularly uh to the point, which is that uh what it what it indicates, what we see as far as newspaper readership is concerned about young adults, indicates that there's a growing amount of alienation between the younger generation and and the community. And and uh the young adults aren't as involved. I think in Hawaii, it's particularly uh uh interesting question because of the fact that the young adults are are priced out of our society in terms of uh not being able to afford a home or postponing marriage or not having kids or not being as involved in the community as they might be uh in a mainland community where the cost of living isn't as crippling cripplingly high as it is here.

[00:19:00] John Flanagan: but the trend here is the same as the trend everywhere. There are lots of different kinds of media and activities competing for people's time and that's the age in which people are very active.

[00:19:17] Randall Roth: Do you feel that the public's trust in political figures has declined, John?

[00:19:24] John Flanagan: I think there's a cycle that happens and I think we're we're we're on the tail end of a cycle right now in Hawaii. A cycle that began with the promise of the Whaea administration coming into office and there was a a fresh start, a lot of new blood in in the state government and that administration is now just about played its course and some of the the promise maybe has uh turned into disappointment and people are frustrated. Uh we're in a period of economic stagnation that frustrates people and uh I think there are a number of a number of critical factors that are that are in confluence right now and the result is I think a general feeling of malaise. Uh I think your your books uh the Price of Paradise reflected some of that and uh if anything, maybe people have read read your books and and gotten a little bit down. Uh there have been some some abuses, but I know that there are plenty of very good people in government who are working really hard in the public's interest. Uh but we've seen some seen some problems.

[00:20:46] Randall Roth: Jerry, what do you think about the public's confidence in its leaders?

[00:20:49] Gerry Keir: I think the word I would use is powerlessness that people feel uh disconnected from the levers of power and I think that reflects itself in the distrust of all kinds of institutions, including the news media. The question for this year, a year in which we have such a huge potentially transitional election, is whether that's going to translate itself into anything at the polls. I've been I've lived in Hawaii since the 1960s, I've heard predictions of the demise of the ruling political party establishment since the first election I ever covered here in 1970 and here we are in 1994 and still predicting it. So, the question is whether the powerlessness has now reached the tipping point that this will really be an election that that moves us into a new era in Hawaii politics. I think the jury's still out on that and I think we're not going to know that before election day in November.

[00:21:42] Randall Roth: Nationally, there's been a growing amount of criticism about the press in general that it's more and more sensational, that it's headed in the direction of tabloid journalism. Do you think there's any validity to that criticism, Jerry?

[00:21:54] Gerry Keir: I'd have to say I think it's more valid in terms of local television news and in some of the quasi news programs on television that are presented as documentaries which are really the the broadcast equivalent of the National Enquirer. If you look at the advertiser in terms of coverage of things like crime, blood and gore, uh I don't think that criticism holds up in our case.

[00:22:18] Randall Roth: John, you agree?

[00:22:20] John Flanagan: I think sensationalism has a lot of different definitions and I think I agree with Jerry in terms of what we think of as tabloid journalism, that's not what what we do. On the other hand, we do try to get people's attention with stories to make sure that they that they see it. I don't know that that's sensationalizing but it is trying to uh to point out to people that this is an important story and this might be something you want to read about.

[00:22:51] Randall Roth: Well, what, Jerry, what's the single greatest threat to the future of Hawaii in your opinion?

[00:22:56] Gerry Keir: I think the single greatest threat is the the alienation, what I see is the alienation of a large block of people in the community from the what they see is the centers of power and I think as people get turned off by the political process, by the media that reports on it, get more disconnected from it, we get farther and farther away from a truly representative democracy.

[00:23:18] Randall Roth: John?

[00:23:19] John Flanagan: Well I think one of Hawaii's major exports now is its youth and if that's because of the cost of living here or or because of government or what, poor education, whatever it is, I think we need to do more to keep the youth of Hawaii in Hawaii because that's that's where the future is.

[00:23:41] Randall Roth: My guests this week were the editors of Honolulu's two major newspapers, Jerry Kiri of the Advertiser and John Flanigan of the Star Bulletin. This week's show was produced by Jill Center with technical assistance from Mark Wagner. Be sure to tune in next week when my guests will be Doc Kelly of the Outrigger Hotels and Bill Spiker of United Airlines. They'll be talking about the future of tourism in Hawaii. You've been listening to the Price of Paradise Radio Show. I'm Randy Roth. Aloha. hotels and Bill Spiker of United Airlines. They'll be talking about the future of tourism in Hawaii. You've been listening to the Price of Paradise radio show. I'm Randy Roth, Aloha.

[00:24:16] Announcer: This program is produced by the Consortium of 72 Price of Paradise authors in cooperation with Hawaii Public Radio. The Price of Paradise is a best-selling two-volume book series that has become a must read for every concerned citizen of Hawaii. Please tune in next week when Randall Roth and his guests will take on another question of importance to listeners in Hawaii. Cassette copies of this program are available from Hawaii Public Radio for $10 by calling 955-8821. For a listing of past shows and guests, send a stamped self-addressed envelope to Price of Paradise Radio Show, Hawaii Public Radio, 738 Kahaka Street, Honolulu 96814.

[00:24:16] Randall Roth: This program is produced by the Consortium of 72 Price of Paradise authors in cooperation with Hawaii Public Radio. The Price of Paradise is a best-selling two-volume book series that has become a must read for every concerned citizen of Hawaii. Please tune in next week when Randall Roth and his guests will take on another question of importance to listeners in Hawaii. Cassette copies of this program are available from Hawaii Public Radio for $10 by calling 955-8821. For a listing of past shows and guests, send a stamped self-addressed envelope to Price of Paradise Radio Show, Hawaii Public Radio, 738 Kaheka Street, Honolulu, 96814.