Politics in Hawaii
Price of Paradise · Hawaii Public Radio · aired 1994-02-01
Guests: Dan Boylan (political columnist, MidWeek); Richard Borreca (political and investigative writer, Honolulu Star-Bulletin)
Duration: 00:30:38

[00:00:01] Randall Roth: Good morning. I'm Randy Roth, host of the Price of Paradise radio show. My guests this week are Richard Borreca, political columnist and investigative writer for the Honolulu Star Bulletin, and Dan Boylan, history professor at the University of Hawaii, West Oahu, and political columnist for Midweek magazine. The Economist, a highly regarded British magazine, has described Hawaii's political system as a cross between Japan's and Louisiana's. Richard, is there any truth to that?

[00:00:28] Richard Borreca: Randy, what what Hawaii is right now, I think, is a small state which is getting more than its usual share of examination as it goes towards middle age, I guess. But the politics you find in Hawaii are the politics you find in small states all across the United States. Um, in Arkansas right now, there are dozens of reporters scouring around looking for more on the Whitewater investigation on President Clinton, and they're finding out that the Governor and the bank CEOs and the top people in country clubs and other major institutions in the state all know each other. Their kids all go to school together. The same thing happens in Hawaii, and it's that sort of inbreeding and cross breeding that that you see that makes Hawaii a small-town politics.

[00:01:27] Randall Roth: Dan, you agree, nothing terribly special about Hawaii?

[00:01:30] Dan Boylan: Well, no. I I think there is something special about Hawaii. I think there's a real cultural stick stick here. It's it's a multi-ethnic population. Uh, there's a lot of reticence on the part of people, particularly of Asian background. They're quieter. I think they're suspected, frankly, and in by uh many Caucasians in the population, I think there's a tendency to not understand the the politics in Hawaii very well, and uh when you don't understand, you sometimes then respond by saying everybody's a heavy, and I think that's done too often in this state. I don't think that we're as corrupt as Louisiana, uh anywhere near as corrupt as Louisiana. I think, but there is a there is definitely an Asian side to our politics, and that's to be expected when a goodly proportion of your population has ethnic roots in Asia.

[00:02:15] Randall Roth: Now, Richard suggested that for some reason we're taking a closer look at politics these days in Hawaii. With present company accepted, do you think we're doing a good job? The media is doing a good job of looking at politics these days?

[00:02:26] Dan Boylan: Well, first, let me say that we're taking a closer look because we're in, you know, we're at the the succession, the great succession, uh, two, two gubernatorial terms are over [unintelligible — audio glitch] John Waihee can't succeed himself. So for the last a year and a half or so, we've been looking very, very closely at our politics. I think the, I think media is getting worse, uh, in Hawaii, and it's getting worse for a lot of reasons. Cable has uh has dissipated the power and the profits of of the television stations, and their news staffs are not as large as they used to be and they're cutting back. The newspapers in Hawaii have have been gannettized, and uh and both are being run from uh by outside uh companies. They're getting smaller and their news holes are getting smaller. Uh no, I think we're doing worse. But we're doing worse across the country, I think. It's not just Hawaii.

[00:03:12] Richard Borreca: I would beg to differ. I would beg to differ. Uh, actually, our news hole has expanded. If Dan would count, he would notice that we've added an entire section in the Saturday paper.

[00:03:22] Dan Boylan: You're the first one who accused me of not being able to count.

[00:03:26] Randall Roth: What does that mean, gannettized?

[00:03:28] Richard Borreca: Well, I think that there's more there's more of a, um, use of charts, graphs, small stories. Uh that's that's happened in both papers. It's happened across the United States. In fact, I think I think it's it's the way that the papers are going. But that doesn't mean that there's not uh concern about the coverage of of politics. I think the Star Bulletin has three people who are covering the state legislature plus an intern. Uh, there are two people doing investigative reporting at the Star Bulletin, which is more than there was before. So it's not uh it's not a downscaling, at least at the bulletin.

[00:04:04] Randall Roth: Richard, you do a column, uh, and in the past, I've noticed that you've at least hinted that the legislature here in Hawaii has, has lacked a backbone. Why is that?

[00:04:14] Richard Borreca: I think the backbone is grown uh by John Waihee. I think that the what what has happened over the last four years or so is not so much that the power of the legislature has gone away, but that it has been absorbed totally by the governor's office. The people in the legislature are more concerned today about what's going to happen to their own careers, in terms of getting a high three appointment later on, than they are about what committees they're chairing. There is more jockeying for that kind of power and for longevity than there is for a any kind of a decent product. And it's become, not the Democratic Party or the Republican Party, but the Gubernatorial Party, which is running the legislature today.

[00:05:02] Randall Roth: Dan, I noticed you're nodding. You're you're in agreement.

[00:05:05] Dan Boylan: Yeah. What's the number now, Richard? Is it 15 that that Governor Waihee has appointed? 15 or 16 member's of the legislature. Dramatic number, which he is either appointed to the House or appointed from the House to the Senate to fill vacant spots.

[00:05:21] Randall Roth: And why would that give him so much power?

[00:05:23] Dan Boylan: Well, because if if I'm not mistaken, a balanced government calls for a legislature which holds the executive accountable. If you've got uh 15 out of or 16 out of 76, 15 out of 76, what is that? I I'm not I'm not the math, but uh one-fifth, one-fifth, he's appointed. Uh then there's the top three that Richard talks about, the opportunity to get a uh a higher uh uh lead with a top three uh position in the administration where you're you'll base your retirement salary on a much higher uh level. So a lot of people are watching the governor and want to do what the governor wants done, uh and they as Richard points out, they lose their backbone.

[00:05:59] Richard Borreca: Also Dan, I think I think uh another thing is that the legislature is not equipped to analyze the state budget. They're not able to follow what the administration does day in and day out. And the legislature has within its own power, it can it can raise its budget, it gives itself a 5% raise every year in in staffing and salary increases. It can start spending some money on serious committees, serious investigations, and good staff. They have one or two good staff members on the house and in the Senate, they should have about 30 good staff members in the House and the Senate and those people should be charged with monitoring the state administration like Congress does.

[00:06:40] Randall Roth: Why aren't they doing that, Dan?

[00:06:42] Dan Boylan: Well, I think there's an embarrassment and whenever a a legislative body raises its uh raises its staff numbers and the amount of money that they're putting out. And I think again, it's uh you know, this is the incumbent, we we say the gubernatorial party, it's also the incumbent party and uh I don't There's no payoff, there's no percentage [unintelligible — audio glitch] investigating the administration. They've got everything to lose and nothing to gain. They are very little to gain.

[00:07:05] Randall Roth: What about what's going on in the Senate, the power struggle?

[00:07:09] Dan Boylan: Well, I think the power struggle for the moment, it will be I think we'll see very little of it this year. Uh simply because it's an election year, the Democrats are going to try to put the put the lid on, so to speak, for the next uh for the next 9 months anyway, and I think it'll be relatively quiet. Now, I don't know that I I I couldn't believe what they did last year. I mean they went from from embarrassment to abominably embarrassment embarrassing acts to get another way at the end was terrible. It was it was outrageous. And what bothered me, some of these people I know and like and they just kept doing stupider things. Uh I think now the under Mizaguchi, I think you will see a very a very strong effort on his part to try to quiet things down, appease everybody, keep the lid on at least through the election.

[00:07:54] Richard Borreca: You know Randy, the the legislature runs on numbers. Um, it's 13 votes is the majority in the Senate and uh it's 26 in the in the House. When you have that, you win. And when you're the minority, you can be vocal, but you're not going to win and that's what it's going to be. So the legislative session itself won't be as exciting probably as as all the fumbling around uh that the the Senate did in the off season.

[00:08:21] Randall Roth: What about the Matsuura Committee? Is it pretty well just going to fade uh out now?

[00:08:26] Richard Borreca: Well, right now it's it's uh sort of on a heart and lung machine, whether or not it's going to move. Who who knows? Uh [unintelligible — audio glitch] needs funding and suddenly it's competing with the funding from the uh special Senate committee on investigating insurance. Uh, which where that's going to come go or come from, who knows, but they say they need $100,000 to investigate insurance. Well, you and I know that that is such a fantastically complicated subject. They're going to need two years and a million dollars to do it.

[00:08:56] Randall Roth: Dan, what do you think? Has the Matsuura Committee accomplished anything? Uh, is that, you know, worth paying attention to or did that just kind of stir things up a bit?

[00:09:04] Dan Boylan: Well, it certainly stirred things up a bit, but I think it was worth worth paying attention to too. Just that just that the, um, the relationships in the executive branch and between things like the the retirement system, the state retirement system have become so uh so buddy-buddy, so so much cronyism, that I think it was important to show it again, to repeat it. So often you can have a an article by Duly in the advertiser, an article now by Borreca [unintelligible — audio glitch] Lin and the in the Star Bulletin or or somewhere else and it comes and it goes and it disappears. Matsuura kept kept the heat on for a while, and I think that's it. He he served an important civic uh civic function, maybe an embarrassing civic function. May not end in the kind of prosecutions that people like to see bloodshed uh happen, but it was an important civic function and uh if if it only showed the kind of cronyism that's that that's going on in the state.

[00:09:58] Randall Roth: You're listening to the Price of Paradise radio show. I'm Randy Roth and my guests this week are a couple of Ace political columnists, Richard Borreca of the Honolulu Star Bulletin and Dan Boylan of Midweek Magazine. Well, Richard, what about the governor? He's winding down his eight years in office. How would you assess his um two terms?

[00:10:16] Richard Borreca: Well, we are all looking at the same calendar and it says 1994 on it, but I for the life of me, I cannot figure out what calendar John Waihee is looking at because he he gave a state of the state speech that was the state of the state speech he should have given six years ago. Uh this is the speech for someone who's in the middle of his uh first administration. Uh we're going to push ahead, we're going to do this, we've got uh the health quest program, we're going to raise taxes, we're going to put it in mass transit system, uh we're going to reform the school system. He only has months left to go, and then he's going to be out of office.

[00:10:55] Richard Borreca: As far as his political future goes, right now the um job approval ratings of him continue to be quite low. Um, he's not getting much support. From what I understand talking to people within his administration, there is a feeling that uh finally they realize that the the Governor is not very electable for any other large post such as US Senator. Uh his options in that field also seem to be shut off quite a bit because Senator Dan Akaka has no indications that he's going to quit. Um, so where would he go? For some reason, people say that, well, where he has to go is to Bishop Estate. And that I myself, I don't understand.

[00:12:15] Randall Roth: Dan, do you agree that uh that that's the assessment and if so, does does the Governor deserve that?

[00:12:19] Dan Boylan: I I think it's a very bad time to be looking at Waihee as assessing Waihee. This is uh this is the, you know, he's got nine months left and and we're in the succession. Everybody in the psyche camp is trying to tell you how bad the Waihee-Cayetano always, we'll add the two together, administration has been. Everybody in Fasi's camp is trying to do the same thing. A lot of very high-paid talent in this town is trying to come up with negative things about John Waihee. We'll have a better idea about his administration, I think, looking back on it uh 10 years from now. Right now, [unintelligible — audio glitch] all looks bleak. That's all that anybody wants to talk about.

[00:13:06] Dan Boylan: I I I've always felt frustrated with John Waihee because he's one of the most charming men, the most the most charming uh uh political actor I've seen in certainly on the gubernatorial level since Bill Quinn left uh back in 1962. And uh he's he's seems to be a natural political talent. It seems to me he frittered away a great deal during these eight years. He never had an agenda that or a list of priorities that he followed very closely and he tended [unintelligible — audio glitch] go from one [unintelligible — audio glitch] place. And I and I think it's difficult at this point to decide what finally is accomplishment is, if any.

[00:13:41] Randall Roth: Richard, any any thoughts on the governor's job?

[00:13:45] Richard Borreca: I I agree with Dan that the the conundrum with Waihee is that he did jump from issue to issue, and I assume part of that is because he is such an exquisite salesman. Uh the man can sell almost anything, and he would figure that with his talents, he would be able to deliver so many different issues. Unfortunately, uh very few of them have borne fruit.

[00:14:13] Randall Roth: What about the campaign? Uh, what are the major differences in the three major gubernatorial candidates? Uh, how can I as a voter really distinguish what a vote for one would would mean as compared to a vote for the others, Dan?

[00:14:44] Dan Boylan: Well, I I think each of them has has very very real strengths, very real weaknesses. Uh certainly Frank Fasi has a great deal of executive experience. He's run 80% of this state for a long for 25 years uh [unintelligible — audio glitch] city hall. Uh he's still, I think, an imaginative and innovative guy. Uh uh his difficulties, of course, is that he is his style, it's he's always, he's always had a confrontational style. He's older now, the age issue is going to be there. Uh he has a tendency to shoot himself in the foot. Uh he may have been around too long, his star may be [unintelligible — audio glitch] the descent. Uh Pat Saiki has the advantage of having been out of town for the last six years, so there's nothing that you're mad at her about.

[00:15:47] Dan Boylan: On the other hand, she's been out of town for the last six weeks six years, and she's she's not, I think, as as on top of state issues as either Cayetano or Fasi is at this moment. Uh her advantage is that she's got all the anger that has built up for 20, what are we at now? 20 since 1962, all of those gubernatorial years of Democrats and all of that is on her side. Right now, I think that 51% she got the other day is the highest she's ever going to get, and it's and and that lead is going to begin to be whittled away at over the next few months, whether it'll hold, we don't know.

[00:16:21] Dan Boylan: She's a very charming person. I think she's got a very good campaign manager, I think in Andy Anderson. Ben Cayetano is a very unstable politically, in that I think he's a guy who who people uh don't know a great deal about. They don't trust some of them because they feel he's because he remember the old thing about Tom Gill. You can trust Tom Gill was on his bumper sticker and somebody said, yeah, I know, that's why I won't vote for him. I know what he's going to do. Uh I think that's the problem with Cayetano. He's unpredictable. Uh he's going you know he's going to do something, but it may not help your business, or it may not help your lobbyist, or it may not help this, that, or the other thing. On the other hand, he he may be the biggest change agent in the campaign, I don't know, that's what he's going to try to argue.

[00:17:15] Richard Borreca: In the past, Cayetano has run very shrewd campaigns. Um he's he's never lost. Uh he's his tactics and his timing in in the area of politics and running for office is very good. His ability in the legislature to count votes and to know when you're winning is miserable. He's a lousy vote counter. Uh, he's a good he's a good hard campaigner, and I think that his issue is education. And he's he's going to drive that home. Somewhere along the line before September, Ben Cayetano is going to say, you know what? We've got to do, we've got to bite the bullet, and we're going to have to raise taxes for education. Um, that's what I think he'll he'll just have to come out and flat out say that, and make the other two candidates uh Fasi and Saiki uh either raise the ante or come out against education and say, no, no, no. Uh for for Saiki, uh Saiki's great uh great ability is to be not [unintelligible — audio glitch] Dan said, to be not one of the other two. It wasn't me, I wasn't, it wasn't my watch, but for for her to get uh the vote [unintelligible — audio glitch] November, what she has to do is going to be very, very difficult. For her to to rise above and somehow solidify the anti- Democratic establishment vote, to get that while you have Fassi chipping away, it's going to be very difficult for her to do, and I'm not exactly sure how it's going to happen myself.

[00:19:33] Dan Boylan: Although I would point out, I think Cayetano has the toughest go. I think I think Cayetano is going [unintelligible — audio glitch] the best year of his life to be elected governor this year.

[00:20:00] Randall Roth: You're listening to the Price of Paradise radio show. I'm Randy Roth, and my guest this week are two political columnists, Richard Borreca of the Honolulu Star Bulletin and Dan Boylan of Midweek Magazine. Well, what about the the D, the Democrat after somebody's name, and the R, and the B, now, the best party. How much can the voter learn from seeing which party the person is a part of, Richard?

[00:20:31] Richard Borreca: I know that Democrats are going to try to make that the big educational issue in the fall, is that the the inherent goodness of being a Democrat as compared to the awfulness of being a Republican. Uh, they tried that on Maui last week when the the three candidates met for the first time, and the Ben Cayetano, uh his opening gambit was, let me tell you all the horrible things that George Bush did uh to education across the country, and here's Pat Saiki, who was the Small Business Administration uh executive for George Bush. And the response was, well, let me tell you what the Democrats have done for education and how we've slipped in the SAT scores and and how more and more people are sending their children to private schools, and the person in charge of that was John Waihee, and let me introduce to you his uh running mate for the last two elections, Ben Cayetano.

[00:21:48] Richard Borreca: So it's not going to wash. I don't think you're going to be able to to work Democrats versus Republicans too long. Uh but that's what they're going to try the Democrats will try to do because it's been so remarkably successful in the last two elections.

[00:19:00] Randall Roth: If you had a machine that measured the level of frustration and alienation and cynicism in the community, where would that needle be right now?

[00:19:07] Dan Boylan: Oh, it'd be very, very high, indeed.

[00:19:09] Randall Roth: Why?

[00:19:09] Dan Boylan: Well, I I think for one thing, the Senate follies of the last year and a half have been terribly uh uh difficult for people to swallow. Uh, I think uh some of the uh some of the things that frankly my university is our university, Randy, has contributed to, you know, we've got a couple felons on our payroll and uh nothing seems to happen to them. And and uh people uh the the uh employment retirement system uh uh not not necessarily anything illegal but geez, how's a guy make a million dollars in a day by, you know, making a contact for someone? Finders fees. Most of us don't understand finders fees, it just looks like a ripoff. And I think people see that across ethnic ethnic groups, across uh age uh groups, and [unintelligible — audio glitch] bothers them a great deal and bothers me. Uh and that and that and it it raises cynicism. Uh people talk about how difficult it is for some of the old Democrats to vote Republican. I think some people, it's like a dog needing a bath, you know, you hate the bath, but I think they may do it this year. Just because [unintelligible — audio glitch] feeling that we were awful dirty. We've got awful dirty somehow and we've lost our bearings and we just may have to turn on the cold water and that psyche may be a you know, Punaho school teacher and went with the Republicans, but darn it, we gotta we gotta get rid of some of these this terrible dirt. And then maybe clean up and come back in a few years with the democratic philosophy we believed in.

[00:20:35] Randall Roth: You know, as I was listening to the two of you earlier, I'm picturing a campaign this year where one candidate is saying, "Don't blame me. It's not my fault." And another one is saying, "I get the job done." And another one is saying, "I'm a member of the right party." Richard, what would it take to elevate the campaign to get the candidates to really focus on the issues and and really tell us about the tough choices they're prepared to make?

[00:20:57] Richard Borreca: Outside of nuclear war? [unintelligible — audio glitch]'ll what'll what we need. And you know, it's one of the it's one of the things that we've been kicking around um at the Star Bulletin and I know that public uh public television is concerned about it and and some other people uh also. Uh they did this in other states two years ago when the Star Bulletin started to do it and we sort of got sidetracked which is to focus the attention to have the issues of the day drive the news coverage of the of the campaign. To get away from doing uh polls on the horse race issues and do the polls on the issues. We were planning on on doing several large polls uh to measure what the issues are in-depth uh across the state and how the people feel about them, and use those to bring people together in in several large community forums and then have that drive the coverage of the campaign and have the candidates answer the questions that have been brought up by the polls and by uh a nice broad spectrum group of people from across the state and have have them ask the candidates the questions and have the coverage be on, "What is the stand on education?"

[00:22:14] Randall Roth: Dan, are you optimistic about that working?

[00:22:16] Dan Boylan: Well, I I think that's part of a larger of a larger puzzle here. I I was very, very heartened by what happened nationally in 1992 in the presidential race. Television took over. Uh and and whether you liked it or not, you could not turn on the tube without seeing George Bush, Ross Perot, or Bill Clinton. They were on the morning show, they were on Larry King, they were all over CNN, they were they were everywhere. I would very, very much like to see that happen in this political campaign, with people calling directly, with with people like Randy Roth asking people asking candidates here on this program uh uh things every Saturday morning for 10 weeks if need be, uh before the election. I'd like to see the uh the commercial stations do the same. Public television, ololo. Uh I think we've got to bring these people out [unintelligible — audio glitch] again to direct questions from folks and make them answer questions. I think if that happens, we could indeed have a a [unintelligible — audio glitch] campaign that would be elevating. I'm not sanguine, however, because I know commercial television, I know commercial radio and I'm not at all certain that that'll happen.

[00:23:20] Randall Roth: Well, I can't let the two of you get out of here without telling me what your crystal ball says about the outcome of this campaign. Richard?

[00:23:26] Richard Borreca: The campaign for Governor? That's right. Um well, I I've heard Ben uh Ben Cayetano's name mentioned um more and more and right now I think that uh Cayetano, although he's down in the polls uh is the candidate that has the the best chance of winning.

[00:23:44] Randall Roth: He's the one to beat, huh?

[00:23:46] Richard Borreca: I think he's the one to beat.

[00:23:47] Randall Roth: Dan, I heard you say something a little bit different earlier.

[00:23:49] Dan Boylan: No, at this moment, I think I'd have to say Pat Psyche, it's Pat Psyche's to lose. Uh Ben Cayetano, as I mentioned earlier, it's going to have to have an awful good year in order to win this one. For the first time [unintelligible — audio glitch] my life in Hawaii, being a Democrat can be a a a downer in in this election year.

[00:24:06] Randall Roth: Well, one last thing that I'll ask each of you. What would you like to see in this campaign? I know Richard was talking about what the Star Bulletin is planning to do, but if you could change how one of the candidates approach something, um what would you what would you tell that candidate? How would you like to affect the campaign? Richard?

[00:24:22] Richard Borreca: I would like all three candidates to accept public financing and limit the amount of money they they take uh and have uh clear concise reporting, uh find out where the money came from and also for them to limit the amount of money they spend. I think that would be the the most enlightening thing they could do.

[00:24:40] Randall Roth: Dan?

[00:24:40] Dan Boylan: I would like them to appear again and again and again together before the folks. Whoever is leading the polls, don't avoid debate, don't avoid question and answer sessions, be seen together. I have I have faith [unintelligible — audio glitch] the [unintelligible — audio glitch] the democracy and in television and all sorts of media. I think people make the right decision when they see people together.

[00:24:59] Randall Roth: Great. My guest this week were Richard Borreca, political columnist and investigative reporter for the Honolulu Star-Bulletin, and Dan Boylan, history professor at the University of Hawaii, West Oahu, and columnist for Midweek Magazine. This week's show was produced by Jill Center with technical assistance from Mark Wagner. You've been listening to the Price of Paradise radio show. I'm Randy Roth, aloha. This program is produced by the Consortium of 72 Price of Paradise authors in cooperation with Hawaii Public Radio. The Price of Paradise is a best-selling two-volume book series that has become a must read for every concerned citizen of Hawaii. Please tune in next week when Randall Roth and his guests will take on another question of importance to listeners in Hawaii. Cassette copies of this program are available from Hawaii Public Radio for $10 by calling 955-8821.

[00:30:31] Randall Roth: It wasn't I It wasn't my watch. I wasn't I It wasn't my watch. I wasn't I It wasn't my watch. I wasn't I It wasn't my watch.