Update on Sovereignty
Price of Paradise · Hawaii Public Radio · aired 1994-01-01
Guests: H. Bruss Keppeler (attorney; President, Association of Hawaiian Civic Clubs)
Duration: 0:34:32

[00:00:00] Randall Roth: Price of paradise, Kepler, President of the Association of Hawaiian Civic Clubs and member of the Hawaiian Sovereignty Commission. This commission was established last year by the state legislature and asked to recommend a process by which Hawaiians can work out a feasible form of sovereignty. Its role is purely advisory and all of its 20 members were appointed by Governor Waihe. The commission currently is holding public meetings around the state and is expected to make its final recommendations to the legislature on February 28th. Bruce, the commission has generated a great deal of controversy within the Hawaiian community. Were you surprised by that or was that inevitable?
[00:00:38] H. Bruss Keppeler: Well, we assumed that there would be some controversy. Um, it is an effort through the large membership, 20 members, representing many different Hawaiian organizations and the segment, different segments of the community, felt that through that there would be the development of unity, but they're always, of course, inevitably, disagreements between human beings. And after all, Hawaiians, above all, are human beings, like everyone else.
[00:01:06] Randall Roth: I know that Millilani Trask of Kalahui, Hawaii, called the, um, the 20 members who were appointed an old boy's club appointment.
[00:01:15] H. Bruss Keppeler: Well, I think the nine Wahine on the commission wouldn't appreciate that characterization because they don't think of themselves as old boys.
[00:01:25] Randall Roth: Is there something wrong with the governor though deciding who would be on that commission?
[00:01:28] H. Bruss Keppeler: Oh, I think there are basic problems there and we all recognize that. In fact, the commission is, is getting ready to recommend to the legislature that it dissolve itself on August 31st, 1994, uh, in favor of another organization. We're calling it at this point an election board to carry on the plan that we're proposing to the legislature, and to conduct these special elections. And that board would be selected by a completely different method and not be appointed by this the governor.
[00:01:57] Randall Roth: How did the governor go about choosing the 20 people for this commission?
[00:02:00] H. Bruss Keppeler: Well, that's the only thing that we, we hold up as an indication of our independence. Over 50 Hawaiian organizations nominated 100 candidates from which the governor appointed the 20 candidates. Four of the organizations had automatic slots on the commission. I feel one of them, the Association of Hawaiian Civic Clubs, was named in the legislation. Uh, I was nominated, I'm the president of the organization, my organization nominated me, the governor had no choice but to appoint me. The same is true of Kamoki Kanahele, who represents the State Council of Hawaiian Homestead Associations, and Kinauu Kamali, who represents the Office of Hawaiian Affairs. Kalahui Hawaii had the fourth slot and they chose not to participate. Other members were appointed because they were nominated by Hawaiian organizations. And then the governor had what I call four wildcards. He could have appointed those people from the old boy network, if you will, but instead used those nominations to make sure there was representation from each of the islands, instead. The only island he did not appoint someone from was Niihau and we used the Kalahui slot to fill that slot and Ilai Beniamina, who's from Niihau, serves in that slot. The governor did appoint a representative from the continental United States, Uncle Victor uh, Jarrat. And uh, he appointed him as an ex-officio additional member. They really only to be 19 originally, and there are 20 now.
[00:03:38] Randall Roth: Why did Kalahui Hawaii refuse to participate?
[00:03:42] H. Bruss Keppeler: They believe that the process is flawed and we admit that there is a problem with a, uh, process that begins with, um, a sovereign Hawaiian, a sovereign indigenous group of any kind, a sovereign group, um, having a process controlled by another government, a state entity, in this case, with the appointment of the governor. Uh, of course, there's also state funding uh that is tied to this and the power of the exchecker has something to do with it too. Our commission has tried from the very beginning to show that we have an independence. And as we discuss things here in the during this presentation, I think you'll see that we've we're kind of a the kind of group that isn't really going to be lorded over by anybody, let alone the governor, and he has not, to his credit, attempted, in fact, to do anything like that. Uh, [unintelligible — audio glitch] first meeting, for instance, uh, in our immediate deliberation started why with us asking all of the state employees to leave the room so that we didn't feel any kind of intimidation from them. That's the character of all of the people on this commission. Very independent people.
[00:04:58] Randall Roth: Now, I noticed last week that one of the commissioners, Dennis Bumpy Kanahale, resigned. Why did he do that?
[00:05:07] H. Bruss Keppeler: He has been, uh, a believer for some time, of course, in going for one of the models, one of the forms of sovereignty that is out there available to us, that of complete independence of the whole of what is now the State of Hawaii, from the United States, and uh going to the United Nations, to seek uh membership in the United Nations immediately as a separate, independent nation in the family of nations, equal to, and not subservient to the United States. Uh, he's also concerned with the fact that the commission was originally appointed by the governor, the State of Hawaii being a child of the federal government, uh concerns him. And he earnestly believes that he can better operate outside of the commission than he could inside the commission. We left, all of us on the best of terms, um we're all very, very uh fond of Bumpy and hope that, uh, he does well.
[00:06:09] Randall Roth: I read in the newspaper that he attributed uh his decision to resign to uh a talk that he heard from a Professor Boyle uh, who I guess had uh, had something to do with the activities of the PLO. Can you tell us a little bit about Professor Boyle and, and what specifically he said that that would have caused Bumpy to design decide to resign?
[00:06:30] H. Bruss Keppeler: Francis Boyle uh is a law professor, and he's been a consultant and advisor to a number of groups including the PLO, and at the present time, he's involved, evidently, in the negotiations going on in Herzegovina.
[00:06:46] Randall Roth: Yeah, he's from the University of Illinois, is that right?
[00:06:48] H. Bruss Keppeler: I believe that's where uh where he he does teach. I was present at the presentation too. And I think one of the main threads or fabrics of his presentation was that the PLO, for instance, as an example, simply declared themselves as a nation and applied to the United Nations, before they really had done anything with respect to negotiating with Israel. Um, yes, I think that Bumpy is very much affected by those um international law aspects of the Boyle presentation. It was quite powerful, let me tell you. Uh, it's really an interesting concept and um, many of the rest of us are also chewing it over as well, but Bumpy really believes that that's the only way to go, and that was part of what brought him, as I understand it, to resign from this commission and begin to operate independently from it on on the actions that will lead his group and perhaps the Hawaiian people into along a different pathway.
[00:07:51] Randall Roth: I know this has been a very peaceful process uh, but uh an article uh about Millilani Trask uh recently quoted her saying that um uh she was thinking that perhaps there would be more civil disobedience uh down the road.
[00:08:08] H. Bruss Keppeler: Well, the the problem I have, for instance, if we're we are dealing with the PLO and the Herzegovina situation, is unfortunately, there's been an awful lot of Israeli and and Palestinian bloodshed on the grounds of those uh places. Uh, I hope that that is not in our future. I I might add that that same interview, uh in several places, she made a point of saying that her particular organization drew the line on violence, felt very strongly that that should not be a part of this. Well, I think you'll find that as those people in the audience who know and have come to love Hawaiian people, that certainly isn't our way of doing things anyway.
[00:08:51] Randall Roth: You're listening to the Price of Paradise Radio Show. I'm Randy Roth, and my guest this week is Bruce Keppler, a member of the Hawaiian Sovereignty Commission. Bruce, how is the work of the commission going? Uh, here we are in January and your report is due at the end of February. Uh, is it pretty well coming together or or not?
[00:09:10] H. Bruss Keppeler: In certain areas, it's come together very well. In other areas, we're really working very hard to come to a single proposal. Uh, we are in the process, in fact, we're right in the middle here. Uh, last this last week uh, commission meetings were held in Molokai, Lanai, and Maui on and in Hana and Pokokalo and in Kanapali uh, and on Kauai at Waimea Canyon School, Waimea town of Waimea and at Anahola. Uh, this next week, starting on Tuesday, January 18, the commission will be conducting public informational meetings. All of these meetings start at 6:00 at Pahala High School, Kealakehe Intermediate School, at Kuhio Hale in the Hawaiian Homes area of Waimea on the Big Island and in Hilo at Keaukaha School, for instance. Wednesday will be back here on Oahu at Waimanalo School, Benjamin Parker Elementary, Kahuku High School. That's on Wednesday, the 19th. Bruce, did did we just make a public uh service announcement just then? I think we did. And I was going to continue too because Okay, keep keep going. We want we want people to know where they can go to um get in on this. We're going to invite all people to to come to these Oh, even non-Hawaiians? Absolutely. We'd like them to understand because ultimately, of course, that's going to affect these things decisions are going to affect everyone in Hawaii in some way or another. So continuing Thursday on January 20, we'll be at Nanaikapono Elementary School, Waianae High School, and at Highlands Intermediate. That's on Thursday, January 20th. And we wrap up on Friday, the 21st of January, at Central Intermediate School auditorium and at La'ie Intermediate or Elementary School in La'ie on Oahu.
[00:10:55] Randall Roth: Bruce, you just mentioned that that all the people of Hawaii, uh, Hawaiians and non-Hawaiians are going to be affected by whatever comes of this. Uh, can you tell us a little bit more about how people who aren't members of the Hawaiian community, aren't native Hawaiian, how they might be affected?
[00:11:20] H. Bruss Keppeler: Well, it really depends what form Hawaiian sovereignty will take. I think the in first place, oh non-Hawaiians will be affected whichever form is chosen, to some extent. But the effect will be uh greater or lesser depending which of the models might be selected. Uh, for instance, if if you've mentioned Kalahui, they have for a long time espoused uh a so-called nation within a nation status. Uh Randy, I know you know that there are over 300 Native American nations, tribes, bands, native corporations already existent in the within the borders of the United States, including Alaska, that go for have gone for federal recognition and have been recognized by the federal government as separate and sovereign Native American nations. Now, that's one approach that's being considered.
[00:12:18] Randall Roth: Bruce, I noticed you didn't use the word reserva reservation, and some people have negative connotations to the the term Indian reservation. Is the nation within a nation concept what we think of by Indian reservation or is it different?
[00:12:32] H. Bruss Keppeler: Well, actually, under the the over 300 examples, you do have a number of situations where the tribe has does live on a reservation, but they're examples, even amongst that number where they they do not live on a reservation. We don't think that that's going to probably be in our future, that there would be reservations for Hawaiians. Although, let's face it, Hawaiian homes uh neighborhoods, uh subdivisions uh projects, are in a sense very much like those kinds of reservations where only Hawaiians live on umpteen acres of land that have been set aside under the Hawaiian Homes program. That's right. But nothing like, you know, a 1000 acres uh completely separated. That's part of the problem of dealing with nation within a nation here, but please do understand that there are examples even on the Continental United States of uh these nations which aren't do not necessarily have contiguous territories that are separated from others called and called reservations. Okay. But then there are other models and that's of course how it's going to affect Hawaiians and non-Hawaiians to some extent. The if for instance a choice of Bumpy Kanahele, or Poka Laenui, otherwise known as Hayden Burgess, who of course broadcasts on this very station, uh were to be chosen, uh then that would call for the complete separation from the United States of the territory the area on the globe that we know as the State of Hawaii today. Uh, so it would be the nation of Hawaii or whatever name was chosen. It would That's right. Restored again, and would be very similar to the nation that existed on January 16th, 1893, the day before the overthrow uh of the Hawaiian monarchy. And it wouldn't necessarily be a monarchial government. Don't get me wrong. It would just be a separate independent nation that could immediately apply to become a member of the United Nations. It could uh enter into treaties with the United States. Perhaps, one of the approaches it might take is like a uh treaty or a compact of free association, which is something that many of a number of Pacific nations have opted for. Cook Islands, for instance, has a similar arrangement with New Zealand. Uh, we have those kinds of arrangements in the United States between the United States here in the Pacific and Micronesia and Marshall Islands. Now, that model obviously would impact non-Hawaiians more than the nation within the nation model.
[00:15:04] H. Bruss Keppeler: Well, I maintain that of course, in order to do that, you really would have to have the decision made by all of the people in Hawaii, not just those of Hawaiian ancestry. It's pretty obvious, I mean. So if that's what the Hawaiians wanted, that would be step one, and then step two would be to get everybody on board with that one. And we are mentioning that at the public meetings, that it does not stop Hawaiians in this process from making a decision that might be that one, but then probably, not more than probably, certainly, they're going to have to go on and ask everyone else in Hawaii what they think about that approach. By the way, there's still another one which was touched on on in the and dare I mention chapter 40, of volume 2 of the price of paradise, since this is the price of paradise radio show, isn't it? That sure is. Um, that there is a large group of people who would prefer that the status quo, politically, remain in place, but that really important inroads into the basic problems that Hawaiians face today in the way their assets are managed uh be made. Uh, so there that's out there too as an option. Bruce, before I ask you to look into the future and to tell me just what you think is is going to happen, could you tell us uh what the commission has has decided upon thus far or what you think is probably going to be in the report of the commission at these public information meetings? Well, let me explain that in the in mid-October, we had a similar round of meetings. We had 16 meetings here in the State of Hawaii and one on the Continental United States at Las Vegas, in October, asking Hawaiians uh what their feelings were with respect to this issue. We we gathered an an incredible amount of information, brought it in, digested it, and have tried to formulate it into a the basic draft of a plan that we would submit to the legislature. In the first place, the bill Act 359, charged us with the responsibility of coming up with the question that we would ask Hawaiian voters concerning the issue because it really needs to be cleared clarified, that Hawaiians really are in favor of this. There are a number of us who are proponents of Hawaiian sovereignty, but we really need to hear what the Hawaiian people feel about it. And when you say Hawaiian people, you're talking any blood quantum? Absolutely. That's right. Okay. This is what's for instance, if you are talking in terms of a of a nation within a nation status, these uh uh tribal nations that exist on the continent of the United States do not have blood quantum. Please understand that blood quantum was a uh compromise, almost a whim of Congress, and that has nothing to do with the way Hawaiians have ever traditionally divided themselves On Hawaiian homelands? That's right. It was the Hawaiian home homelands the Act of 1920 that uh developed that uh blood quantum thing. It's it's not uh it's of congressional creation not Hawaiian people. And I guess the fact that you went to Las Vegas to get input suggests that a person doesn't have to be in Hawaii, a resident of Hawaii, to be a part of this process. No, the 1990 census uh and we have those figures indicated that 70,551 people were registered of Hawaiian ancestry on the Continental United States, and only 183,000 registered here in Hawaii. They number one-third of our total population. Hawaiians on the Continental United States cannot be ignored. But anyway, we we need to find out from them, we need to find out by from Hawaiians in Hawaii whether or not they really are ready uh to continue the
[00:19:00] H. Bruss Keppeler: towards the restoration of a sovereign Hawaiian nation. That's the question we'll be asking on a plebiscite about a year from now. January, February, March of 1995, according to the plan.
[00:19:14] Randall Roth: I don't mean to interrupt you, but I have to tell our listeners you're listening to the Price of Paradise radio show. I'm Randy Roth, and my guest this week is Bruce Keppler, president of the Association of Hawaiian Civic Clubs and a member of the Hawaiian Sovereignty Commission. Bruce, you're telling us about the work of the Commission.
[00:19:30] H. Bruss Keppeler: That's right. Part of the plan that we will propose will also involve the qualification of voters who'll be allowed, who will be eligible to vote to answer this question in a in an election. Uh by the way, we've decided not to hold it in conjunction with state elections, but to have it a separate election that would take place actually in February and March of 1995, using a mail-out ballot system, although it won't be entirely like your neighborhood board elections, because voters will have the option of bringing their ballot back in and casting it in various locations.
[00:20:13] H. Bruss Keppeler: Probably we won't need as many precincts as as they have in the general elections in uh the state elections, state and county elections. We're also being different and again, we hope an indication that we are a bunch of independent thinking people in chain completely changing the voter qualifications for the voters that will be participating in this process and a a future process that I'll explain later. First, because the Hawaiian population is a young population, 60 or 70% are under 40. Uh we're going to allow voters to be 16 years of age or older. Uh any Hawaiian of any blood quantum will be allowed to vote.
[00:21:00] H. Bruss Keppeler: And they won't even have to be residents of Hawaii. We want to include those 70 odd thousand that live on the Continental United States and we know there's a handful all the way around the world. And because there are people that are resident and perhaps citizens of foreign nations, you won't have to be a US citizen. We do have a significant number of people who have also relinquished their US citizenship because they are striving for sovereignty.
[00:21:27] H. Bruss Keppeler: And finally, because unfortunately, Hawaiians represent over a majority of those present in prisons here in Hawaii, that those who have had their civil rights taken away because they're in prison or on under parole or probationary uh sanctions, uh will be allowed to vote too, even if they don't have standard civil rights for and voting privileges under the state elections. So again, this is very different.
[00:21:55] Randall Roth: And and this is all advisory. What do you think the chances are of the legislature going along with that?
[00:22:01] H. Bruss Keppeler: Well, uh this whole act actually came out of a a single very interesting all-day hearing that was held at Mable Smith Auditorium uh last year during the session. Uh we're we're asking people of these public meetings, if they like this plan, if they want to contribute to it, and they like the final product, they need to come down with us and tell the legislators, this is what we want as a Hawaiian people. Please pass it.
[00:22:28] Randall Roth: So this vote would be about a year from now. Assuming it indicates that the Hawaiian people want sovereignty, how much longer before there would be some form of sovereignty?
[00:22:40] H. Bruss Keppeler: Well, I personally and a lot of the other commissioners feel this strongly to the 100th anniversary of the annexation of Hawaii is August 12, 1998. Uh we're not going to wait that long, but we really consider that to be the outside, absolute outside deadline. Uh we have a more accelerated program. Uh if the answer is yes, then a convention or conventions would be held to begin the drafting of the necessary documents such as a constitution or some other document. And that would uh take place in conventions that would be convened in September of 1995 and run to January of 96.
[00:23:22] H. Bruss Keppeler: In and then a central that would be on those would be island conventions held on various islands. In April uh and there are thereabouts, April, May, June, perhaps, a central convention in 1996 would be held and finally ratification, a ratification vote would be held in August of 1996, three years.
[00:23:44] Randall Roth: So that's actually a pretty ambitious schedule.
[00:23:46] H. Bruss Keppeler: It is actually, and I especially that that ratification vote is a bit close to the convention, and so we're really we're still asking the public what they think about these schedules, and they're they're still in in flux. They're still in work progress.
[00:24:00] Randall Roth: We're we're running out of time, but I I would like a couple of things yet. One, what kind of input are you getting are you getting at these hearings? What what are people telling you? And then later I want to ask you what what you see down the road.
[00:24:13] H. Bruss Keppeler: Well, it's it's some very supportive input, for one thing. We appreciate that very much. These are kind of like uh uh classes. We we have slide presentations trying to explain all the elements of the plan. And then and then questions and answers. Uh let's see. Well, earlier this week in Hana, for instance, a gentleman came up and and uh very uh strongly said, why are we talking about beginning the process towards sovereignty? A bunch of us began that process a long time. Maybe the question should be, shall we continue the process toward the restoration of a sovereign Hawaiian nation? Good point. Good point.
[00:24:51] Randall Roth: Well, what do you see down the road, Bruce, uh 1998 or beyond? Uh the outside of this time frame that you've described. Uh what do you see?
[00:25:01] H. Bruss Keppeler: Well, I believe of course, what we're the reason we're involved in all of this, basically is because of the fact that Hawaiians find themselves at the top of all of the bad lists and the bottom of all [unintelligible — audio glitch] good lists from a socioeconomic socioeconomic standpoint. We have too many people in prison. We have too many people who die too early. We have too many suicides. We have too many drug abusers and alcohol abusers. Our race has have major problems, and we feel that the we need to bear down on those problems as a people.
[00:25:24] H. Bruss Keppeler: Too many suicides, we have too many drug abusers and alcohol abusers. Our race has had major problems and we feel that the we need to bear down on those problems as a people. We want to work with these problems ourselves, and to create our own nation will be a major step in the direction of curing those ills.
[00:25:44] Randall Roth: Well, thank you very much, Bruce. My guest this week was Bruce Kepler, president of the Association of Hawaiian Civic Clubs and member of the Hawaiian Sovereignty Commission. This week's show was produced by Jill Center with technical assistance from Mark Wagner. You've been listening to the Price of Paradise radio show. I'm Randy Roth, Aloha.