Political Dysfunction: Pay to Play?
Price of Paradise · Hawaii Public Radio · aired 1995-12-01
Guests: John McLaren (attorney; former legislative aide to Senator Spark Matsunaga; Neighborhood Board member); Desmond Byrne (Executive Director, Common Cause Hawaii)
Duration: 0:30:04

[00:00:03] Randall Roth: Good morning. I'm Randy Roth, host of the Price of Paradise radio show. Today's topics are the Democratic machine and political fundraising in Hawaii. With me to discuss them are John McLaren, an attorney in private practice, and Desmond Byrne, owner of Honolulu Information Service and Chairman of Common Cause Hawaii. John, is there such a thing as the Democratic machine?
[00:00:27] John McLaren: There certainly is a perception that there is a machine, but it it's different from what we would ordinarily think of as a machine. It doesn't have cogs and wheels. It has interlocking friendships, connections between government and the private sector, involving lawyers, accountants, engineers, professional people, many of whom seek business from the government. Many of whom are members of the Democratic Party and fundraisers for members in the party, as well as for the Governor and and other figureheads. So, there may be, in fact, a machine. It's difficult to put your finger and identify the organizational structure of the machine, but it clearly is a public perception and very strong one at that.
[00:01:12] Randall Roth: Is there an individual or a small group of individuals who are operating the machine?
[00:01:17] John McLaren: Again, the appearance seems to be that the Governor and his staff and his close associates are operating the machine. That maybe because the Governor has been the titular head of the Democratic Party, it may also be that he is the chief benefactor of all of these efforts by the staff and the members of the Democratic Party to support him in office. Nonetheless, again, there seems to be an inner circle that is working the the levers and controls of this machine if it exists.
[00:01:49] Randall Roth: If if the Governor is the king, who's the kingmaker? Or is there a kingmaker?
[00:01:55] John McLaren: There used to be widely acknowledged kingmakers. Baboo Shiro, Nadau Yoshinaga, under the Jack Burns era. They are still around, they're still behind the scenes, heavily involved in the Democratic Party. There may be others, Harold Matsumoto, perhaps the state planning director, perhaps Yuki Takimoto, perhaps Norman Mizaguchi. There are probably a dozen or more people who are closely associated with the Governor and his program.
[00:02:26] Randall Roth: Desmond, does your impression of the so-called Democratic machine square with that or is it different?
[00:02:31] Desmond Byrne: Yes, I would agree there. You're either an insider or an outsider, and I know I'm an outsider. So I I believe that, and these people, these kingmakers in the past had their proteges, but quite who's taking over that role in future is not clear.
[00:02:48] Randall Roth: How does one become an insider?
[00:02:53] Desmond Byrne: I'm not quite sure whether you went to the right high school, whether you went to UH, whether you went to the law school now, whether they these um groups of people know each other. And when you look at their history, they were clerking at the Ways and Means committee in the Senate or the House. You can see a kind of track record, and then they get appointed to this board or that board, a commission of of the state government. And they're kind of looked after because you it's interesting to look back on some people's history as to where they came from. And they seem to have had some key friendships along the way.
[00:03:29] Randall Roth: Well is it possible to to buy your way into the inner circle? Is it possible through political contributions to be an insider?
[00:03:38] Desmond Byrne: I think there are two lots. I think one is more the non-monetary that these people have the influence and they're loyal to certain people and they've supported them. And then there are other people on the outside who've had money and they've supported the Democratic Party and they've been looked after, they've been on key boards and commissions like the land use commission and they've had their commercial concerns have been well looked after. And I think that's fairly well documented in land and power.
[00:04:11] Randall Roth: John, what do you think about political fundraising in Hawaii? How would you describe it?
[00:04:17] John McLaren: It's very typical of fundraising that practices throughout the nation. Uh monetary donations are given in maximum amounts. Uh practice here is for candidates for four year terms of office to give $2,000 every two years, which is a circumvention of the law. Uh friends and family members are asked to give um donations of $2,000. In a parent uh violation of the law, but you can't trace the source of the funds. Uh wealthy family members give no interest loans to candidates running for office. A lot of circumvention of what the letter of the law says and and the ethics behind the law.
[00:05:04] Randall Roth: Well John, if if you know that, why can't the laws be enforced? Why can't the people who have the power to enforce the laws go in and do so?
[00:05:13] John McLaren: They certainly could and the Campaign Spending Commission should be much more vigilant. The reason why they're not is not clear to me. It it might have to do with staffing or or other kinds of problems documenting the um the violations. I think the chief problem though is the lack of complaints.
[00:05:34] Randall Roth: Well, speaking of complaints, Desmond, I know a month or two ago you filed a former a formal complaint with the State Ethics Commission. Can you tell us a little bit about the circumstances of that?
[00:05:46] Desmond Byrne: Yes, Common Cause complained to the State Ethics Commission about a number of things, including the current chairperson, Barbara Tanabe, who was uh heading up Hill and Nolton here in Hawaii, of having a conflict of interest, of going after the state contracts, having some existing ones, and that such a person should not be on the State Ethics Commission.
[00:06:07] Randall Roth: What came of that complaint?
[00:06:08] Desmond Byrne: She resigned. And then we followed up that with the Office of Information Practices that we wanted all the names of all the appointees sent to the Governor. And uh we got those names, although some were blacked out because the they'd promised some confidentiality. The Supreme Court uh Judicial Council to people. But we've got a lot of those names and we can see the quality of people who've been proposed in the past to their to the Governor and who he has rejected.
[00:06:41] Randall Roth: Wasn't there also a complaint that had to do with a letter that that you personally received when you were with a company called Computab?
[00:06:48] Desmond Byrne: Yes, that was another issue that back in '89 um I worked for Computab and we got a letter out of the blue, which was assigned by a prominent attorney in this town, and he got our name and a whole bunch of other names from uh Yuki Takamoto, the director of budget and finance, who in turn got them from his subordinates uh to do with data processing contracts. And so uh this came along as we're about to sign a contract. And uh this is the way as we were discussing before, this is the way it's done. Not only existing contracts but also you're about to sign a contract. And $2,000 is a very small sum to pay when you've got uh half a million or more of state business. It's a small insurance premium.
[00:07:39] Randall Roth: So the the state uh Budget and Finance Department put together a mailing list which was then given to a prominent attorney who was used to put the squeeze.
[00:07:50] Desmond Byrne: To send out the letters and say Mr. Takamoto is give being given me your name and uh
[00:07:57] Randall Roth: This fellow that you're trying to get to sign the contract so you can get this work from the state.
[00:08:01] Desmond Byrne: Uh please send in the $2,000 for the tickets and we will follow up and it had the CC to Mr. Takamoto. So it was very unsubtle.
[00:08:12] Randall Roth: John, has this sort of thing been going on for a long, long time, or is this a a recent phenomenon that uh this sort of thing would happen?
[00:08:21] John McLaren: I I don't have direct personal knowledge, but it's my belief that this has been a practice for at least 10 or 20 years. Uh this was part and parcel of the way things had been done since the territorial days here. And it's only recently that I believe the tenor of public uh attitudes has changed dramatically and changed in in response to newspaper articles and and other kinds of uh public media attention to this. Uh but it it seems to be a long-standing practice and and widely accepted in all levels of government.
[00:08:59] Randall Roth: You're listening to the Price of Paradise radio show. I'm Randy Roth, and my guests are Desmond Byrne, Chairman of Common Cause Hawaii and John McLaren, an attorney in private practice who served as an aide to Senator Spark Matsunaga for a number of years. Well John, what about procurement? This process by which the government buys goods and services. Uh is that directly related to political fundraising here in Hawaii or is that a separate topic?
[00:09:26] John McLaren: Seems to be directly related to political fundraising and there have been some excellent uh surveys by Ian Lind to show comparison of those who received sole-source, non-bid contracts and those who contributed to the Governor or to the Democratic Party or other uh democratic elected officials. There's there is a very, very strong correlation between the recipients of those contracts, our taxpayer's money, paying for those contracts, and the donations to the candidates.
[00:09:57] Randall Roth: Are our sole source non-competitive bid contracts the the norm, the exception? Is is that a big deal here in Hawaii?
[00:10:05] John McLaren: According to the numbers I've seen, they appear to be uh very prevalent, much more than the norm. I think numbers up to 70 or 80% of government work. Now some of that work is specialized and unique and needs to be given out to to someone with a technical knowledge, but the criticism has been that much of the work, the public works contracts, the architectural, engineering types of of jobs, could have been sent out on a bid basis and we could have gotten the lowest cost for that project.
[00:10:38] Randall Roth: Desmond, you've done a lot of work in this area for Common Cause Hawaii. Is your perception along the lines of John's?
[00:10:44] Desmond Byrne: Oh yes. Yeah, I got several things. First of all it's sole, it's not just sole source. If you've got a government contract because there's a lot of discretion in it, you better cough up the $2,000 as well because there's maintenance, and there's performance, and quality, and all kinds of things.
[00:11:00] Randall Roth: The $2,000 being the requested political contribution.
[00:11:03] Desmond Byrne: Contribution, right. And the other thing is, um you John referred to the campaign spending commission, they've been a lapdog. Uh, they've not been a watchdog at all, because you're only meant to give $2,000 to the corporation and that includes the executives, and it's quite easy to find out what the affiliation is of executives, although it's not mandatory to report that, and we at Common Cause intend to follow up on that. Not only that the law be complied with, uh, but be changed and hopefully reduced from 2,000 down to 1,000.
[00:11:38] Randall Roth: Why would the Ethics Commission be a lapdog? Why wouldn't they Campaign Spending Commission.
[00:11:44] Desmond Byrne: Campaign spending, why would they be a lapdog? Why wouldn't they be aggressively policing this area? We're not sure, the previous director is now on leave. Uh, he had a half-time or three-quarter time job, he was out doing private lawyer work before, we don't understand why it's not been more aggressive. We think it's intended that way. Uh, compared with the Ethics Commission which is uh, quite aggressive, uh, in following up and investigating things, the Campaign Spending Commission has really been uh, pussyfooting around.
[00:12:18] Randall Roth: Uh John, we've pretty much been talking about activity at the state level. Uh what about uh the City and County of Honolulu? We've had this flap in the last few months about uh Sam Callejo who submitted what some people have called a bill to uh political appointees of of Mayor Fasi. Uh I believe he's contended that it wasn't a bill at all, it was just a suggested contribution and that was perfectly appropriate and not all that different from what Aloha United Way does when it's asking people to make a contribution. Uh what do you think about that form of fundraising?
[00:12:52] John McLaren: Well, first of all, my uh knowledge of Frank Fasi's fundraising practices goes back a number of years. He has done this uh as long as he's been mayor. He is better at this than anyone else. Uh he is very effective in having all of his his city workers uh get out and campaign for him. I don't I don't think many of them are coerced into doing it. They do it willingly for the boss. Uh whether this kind of thing should be done on government time or using government employees, that's another question. And I think to remove the appearance of impropriety, this should be strictly voluntary. It shouldn't be uh a coercive or perceived to be a coercive situation. And it shouldn't uh most certainly should not be equated with giving money to a nonprofit charitable cause like Aloha United Way. It is not a nonprofit charitable cause, it's to Frank Fasi, and he should be honest about that.
[00:13:51] Desmond Byrne: Yes. Yes. Um it's just part of a general problem that we at Common Cause would like to see the whole level of fundraising reduced uh, and certain limits put on uh, of PAC money and campaign contributions, and because otherwise you've got millions in war chests for the candidates coming up next year. And those shouldn't be millions, they should be in the range of hundreds of thousands. And it's just got too large and that these machines have to be fed with an incredible amount of money uh to support the campaigns, and it's just got out of sight and ridiculous.
[00:14:33] Randall Roth: John, in in your chapter in the Price of Paradise volume two, uh you talk about something called Peloca power. What is that and does that relate to what we've been discussing?
[00:14:44] John McLaren: It it certainly does. Peloca power is a a notion uh invented by now representative David Hagino when he was in college, and the the concept was simply to emphasize the use of locally grown talent uh in all phases of government, public policy, the private sector, uh, simply because prior to that time, uh we had no local talent. We used to bring in experts from the mainland. Uh the doctrine uh was supposed to duplicate what was done in 1954 with the so-called Nise Democrats. Take the reins of power away from uh those that held power. uh Put in your own talent and run the government, run the private sector for the benefit of all. Uh they succeeded in their first goal in seizing the reins of power. I think, you know, there's reasonably fair consensus to indicate that they haven't succeeded in their second goal.
[00:15:50] Randall Roth: You mentioned uh Representative Hagino. Uh there was a recent uh issue of Honolulu Weekly that featured a uh an interview with the representative. and among other things, he's quoted as saying, "From the day I met John Waihee, I knew he was going to do anything and everything to acquire power." And it goes on uh to indicate that Hagino evidently made three predictions about Governor Waihee. Uh the third of those three predictions was that he was going to destroy the Democratic Party. Do you know what Representative Hagino meant by that and do you agree with it?
[00:16:26] John McLaren: Not exactly sure what what David meant by it, but I think what he did mean is is that the embarrassment caused by uh seeking so much power and using it, or in the public's mind abusing it, will come back to haunt the Democratic Party in the upcoming elections next year. Uh I certainly agree with that, that that as titular head of the of a political party, the Governor ought to act above and beyond reproach, and for many, many issues uh that have become public this year, he has not.
[00:17:01] Randall Roth: You're listening to the Price of Paradise radio show. I'm Randy Roth, and my guests are Desmond Byrne, Chairman of Common Cause Hawaii and John McLaren, an attorney in private practice who served as an aide to Senator Spark Matsunaga for a number of years. Um Desmond, do you see a loss of ideology? Do you see the political parties or politicians um spending less attention on just why it is that they're doing what they're doing and more attention on I don't know, the the power politics side of things?
[00:17:34] Desmond Byrne: It seems like that sometimes, that uh we at Common Cause are interested in basic processes, uh that things work properly, because otherwise you're not going to get the right result, or good result coming out the other end if there's not openness of meetings, of records, ethics laws that are good and enforced and campaign spending. So, we focus on that and we get continual resistance from the legislature and the administration on these issues.
[00:18:05] Randall Roth: What about the laws themselves? The so-called Sunshine Laws, the call for open records and open meetings. Are they in pretty good shape?
[00:18:13] Desmond Byrne: They're not in bad shape at all. The open meetings is enforced by the Attorney General, and uh we have some doubts of, you know, he's not too enthusiastic about supporting a lot of those things. The Office of Information Practices, formed in 1989, has done a very good job. And I'd give credit to the Governor when he uh set up a commission which uh started the law of the Freedom of Information Act in Hawaii. I've got it revised and everything. And that was one of the best things he ever did. He might regret it now, because all kinds of things are coming out, and uh there's a lot more openness than there used to be on a lot of things.
[00:19:00] Randall Roth: can it stand some criticism on its own?
[00:19:02] John McLaren: Well I I think the only criticism I can give is that there aren't enough energies and and uh people behind common cause. It serves a useful watchdog function, but the problem is I I think most of us have relied too much on Common Cause and not supplemented their efforts with our own inquiries.
[00:19:23] Randall Roth: Are you optimistic John about a change in our our political culture that that this fundraising that you were describing earlier will will change or do you think we're just going to have more of the same?
[00:19:36] John McLaren: I'm not very optimistic. I I think with the public scrutiny we've had this year, uh, involving government practices and improprieties, we might have an opportunity for meaningful change. I I think the change will come over a period of years and it will be incremental.
[00:19:54] Randall Roth: Desmond, you optimistic at all?
[00:19:58] Desmond Byrne: Sometimes yes and sometimes no. Um, I think people have got to realize besides voting every two and four years, there's got to be a lot more participation in in the processes of government. You can't just leave it to your legislator to oh have oversight over the other two branches of government. And you got to watch the watchdogs in government, the ombudsman, ethics commission, and choose your own watchdog groups, whether it's the American Civil Liberties Union, environmental, but you've got to participate either supported by money or or action or do something because democracy is pretty fragile.
[00:20:35] Randall Roth: John, you agree that uh democracy means being vigilant, paying attention?
[00:20:40] John McLaren: Absolutely, eternally vigilant and on issues of of concern to the heart for your yourself, your family, your neighborhood. That's the only way a good government can function is with involved and informed citizenry.
[00:20:54] Randall Roth: Do do we as a community, John, do we do we have a a vision for the future of Hawaii and if not, why not and and if not, how do we get one?
[00:21:04] John McLaren: I don't think we have a collective vision for the future. We have documents in the State Planning Office and so on, but collectively as as a a as a state, I don't think we have one. The reason I think, my own reason is that we have still too much of the legacy of plantation society with us. We have been for at least several hundred years under a plantation feudal type of system. Arguably, the native Hawaiians had a similar system. So we really haven't had a culture of democratic participation and decision making, looking toward the future, pulling ourselves together.
[00:21:46] John McLaren: And as we there are young children have grown up and gone to the mainland. Many of them haven't returned. In my view, the ones that are left and those who have come from the mainland and stay are uh much more accepting of what is here instead of looking at what is here and making something better of it.
[00:22:04] Randall Roth: So you're saying even if we have paradise, we've got to um make sure that we keep it?
[00:22:10] John McLaren: Not only make sure that we keep it, would make long-term investments in paradise. Find out what kind of quality of Hawaii we want, politically, economically, environmentally, and work every single day for that. That's the price of paradise.
[00:22:27] Randall Roth: Desmond, do you see the '94 elections as as a possible watershed event like '54, for example, when the Democrats were swept into office?
[00:22:38] Desmond Byrne: I'd like to think so, but I'm very skeptical. Um, the things will be there'll be a lot of rhetoric and uh things will go on more or less the same under whether it's Democrat or Republican. I don't see that we were just talking about this long-term planning, uh, legislators and politicians seem to have very short attention spans. We have 150 uh person state office uh planning, Office of State Planning, and that's risen enormously since 1986, and I'm not quite sure what comes out of all that effort that we have some planning for the future.
[00:23:16] Randall Roth: If each of you could change one thing, if you had the power to simply say, this is going to be different, and you wanted to pick one thing that was going to have a long-term effect on the people of Hawaii, John, what would you want to change?
[00:23:34] John McLaren: I'd like to change the people's attitude in thinking that government is the solution to all of our problems. We are the solution to our problems and if we don't get involved actively in however way, you know, we can, we will be the problem. We'll continue to be the problem and we will have the government and the state that we deserve through our inaction.
[00:23:57] Randall Roth: How do we do that? How do we bring that change about?
[00:24:01] John McLaren: Involve ourselves in decision making at the uh every level of government, at neighborhood boards, community groups, uh non-profit, watchdog groups, the legislature, city council, federal government, talk to your, you know, elected officials. There are innumerable ways to do this. The the basic problem is very few of us do. We rely on a very few people to be vigilant for the rest of us.
[00:24:27] Randall Roth: Desmond, one thing, what are you going to change?
[00:24:31] Desmond Byrne: I think the biggest thing that has to change is the way the legislature works, because they're the key to new legislation and how the executive branch and judiciary work, of the oversight on them, and they don't know what oversight really means. And the quality of the legislature and what comes out the other end, I think is the biggest thing that has to change and it needs citizens being down there, understanding how the place works, um, changing their own rules, enforcing their own rules so that the process has to be changed, because that is critical to everything.
[00:24:56] John McLaren: works, um, changing their own rules, enforcing their own rules, so that the process has to be changed because that is critical to everything. We've worked out, you can't have even good ethics laws and good campaign spending if the legislature is behind closed doors and doesn't work properly.
[00:25:16] Randall Roth: Thank you, gentlemen. Maybe maybe help out with Common Cause Hawaii and some organizations like that as well. Our guests this week were Desmond Byrne, Chairman of Common Cause Hawaii and owner of Honolulu Information Service, and John McLaren, an attorney in private practice who previously was an aide to Senator Spark Matsunaga. This week's show was produced by Jill Center with technical assistance from Rick Stanley. You've been listening to the Price of Paradise Radio show. I'm Randy Roth. Aloha.