Political Agenda
Price of Paradise · Hawaii Public Radio · aired 1994-06-19
Guests: Joanne Punu (Associate Dean, University of Hawaii School of Law)
Duration: 1:08:43

[0:00:00] Randall Roth: Good morning. This is Randy Roth, host of the Price of Paradise Radio Show. And today is Sunday, June 19th, 1994, Father's Day. Governor Waihee was to be our guest today, but a last minute scheduling conflict forced a change of plans. He will join us sometime in the future. With me instead is Joanne Punu, assistant dean at the UH School of Law and Pop 94 activist. Today's topic is this year's political agenda. What issues do you think should be getting the most attention? Your calls are welcome. The number is 955-8821. Joanne, both daily newspapers have been doing their best to figure out what's on people's minds. The Advertiser had a series of reports a month or two ago called Island Voices, that was based largely on polling, and now the Star Bulletin has done its series of reports, again, on polling.

[0:00:53] Randall Roth: It's calling its reports Power 94. In addition to that, Pop 94, which you're very involved in, is a community attempt to identify the key issues, and then to get the candidates to address these issues in a meaningful way. It seems as though a lot of folks have the same idea, and I think that idea is to get the community more actively involved in this process. What are your thoughts on all of this?

[0:01:15] Joanne Punu: Well, I think uh I'm delighted to see all of this happening. I think it's terrific. Um and uh and I'm I was surprised to be to be frank with you on the uh uh Power 94 survey on June 13th, indicating that abuse of power and honesty in government is a is a major concern among the voters. It only proves the point that we have got to do so much more this year in terms of getting those running for office to set their agendas honestly and precisely.

[0:01:42] Randall Roth: What to you, as a citizen of Hawaii, is the single most pressing issue? What's that item that needs attention most quickly if the future of Hawaii is to be bright?

[0:01:52] Joanne Punu: Well, I'm of a mixed mind on this. Um personally, I am also concerned about the honesty in government, the ethics, the abuse of power. This is the major reason I got involved in Pop 94. I've been very disturbed about what I've seen over the last several years in terms of the old boys network and favoritism and and uh keeping, you know, buddies uh working and and getting contracts and and uh that's bothered me enormously. But I have to tell you, in truth, I'm I'm practical at heart, and I think the economy is our major problem here in Hawaii because we are not going to address some very key issues such as improving education, unless we do something about our tax base.

[0:02:37] Joanne Punu: And right now, with the economy hurting, as it is, uh we just don't have very many alternatives, it appears to to fund the efforts, the important efforts of government like education.

[0:02:49] Randall Roth: I want to come back to that in just a second, but in case anyone has joined us late, you're listening to the Price of Paradise Radio Show. I'm here with Joanne Punu, and we're asking callers to tell us what issues should be high priority concerns for us, the people of Hawaii. What is it that we should be asking the candidates to talk about? Your calls are welcome. The number is 955-8821. Well, Joanne, when you say the economy is uh terribly important issue.

[0:03:15] Randall Roth: [unintelligible — audio glitch]

[0:03:27] Joanne Punu: Am I allowed to say all of the above? Or is that getting off too easy?

[0:03:31] Randall Roth: Only if you tell us in what order, the tough choices, Joanne, the tough choices.

[0:03:35] Joanne Punu: Well, I first of all, I more jobs is not to me the most pressing issue. We have enjoyed a a relatively low rate of unemployment in Hawaii for a long time. I think the primary issue is the quality of jobs. Um you know, where where our our future is headed. Uh we're right now essentially a service-based, tourism-based economy. Those jobs tend to be less professional, tend to be lower paying. Um what happens to our kids in the future? Um do we graduate engineers and scientists who then become reservation agents for, you know, a hotel? So it's the quality of jobs that's a major issue, and and tied to that, though, directly linked to it is the diversification of our economy, because if we are remaining a tourism-based economy and an agriculturally-based economy, which is not true anymore, but uh still, uh primary sources of our our revenue, uh we don't have the caliber of jobs.

[0:04:35] Joanne Punu: We don't have an intellectual job force, we don't have an information job source, or job force.

[0:04:42] Randall Roth: So, what is it that government can be doing in order to uh to change Oh, we got a caller. Let's come back to that, Joanne, but right now we have Catherine from Moiliili. Catherine, you're on the air.

[0:04:52] Caller (Catherine): Hi.

[0:04:53] Randall Roth: Good morning.

[0:04:53] Caller (Catherine): Good morning. Um I just recently took a class at KCC and one of the um criteria we had to write a paper on uh budget cuts in education. And um in lieu of the uh newly uh announced budget cuts at the University of Hawaii, I was very surprised to hear that they're going to be doing more cuts be in lieu of the the information that I dug up for my paper, saying that there is a considerable amount of money socked away in various locations. Yet this money has been sitting collecting collecting interest or collecting dust for quite a quite an uh a number of years. And I'm wondering, is is this ever going to surface? Is ed education ever going to be funded again? Are we always going to be get the budget cuts going to continue?

[0:05:45] Caller (Catherine): Is this money ever going to resurface so it can be used the way it's supposed to be used?

[0:05:49] Randall Roth: Catherine, was was your first point that higher education, the University of Hawaii, let's say in particular, is is lean now. It's it's down to the bone, that uh there isn't room to make additional cuts without doing a lot of damage.

[0:06:03] Caller (Catherine): Well, a lot of cuts a lot of classes are already being cut in in the University of Hawaii system.

[0:06:08] Randall Roth: Right. But I guess my point is, if there isn't any money hidden out there, if something had to be changed in order to uh keep the current level of funding or increase the level of funding for the University of Hawaii, uh where would that come from? Do we as a community, uh are we willing to pay more taxes in order to uh have better higher education, or are there some other areas that we as a community feel uh too much in the way of resources have been given to?

[0:06:37] Caller (Catherine): Well, I don't I don't believe that more taxes are going to help for starters because I think uh it'll be like a catch-22, eventually if we pay more taxes, then everything goes up and and it'll keep it'll keep going like that. But I I think there are a lot of alternatives, and one of the one of the alternatives is maybe um school community based management where the community actually gets involved in in how schools are run and how, you know, the budgetary allocations. That that's that's one possibility, but there are ways that the community as a whole can get involved in where the money goes and uh how um the the schools are run.

[0:07:17] Randall Roth: Okay. Well, thank you very much, Catherine, for your call. We're going to go to Nancy in Manoa. Uh Nancy, you're on the air.

[0:07:25] Caller (Nancy): Yes, aloha, good morning.

[0:07:26] Randall Roth: Good morning.

[0:07:26] Caller (Nancy): Um I've been away from uh Honolulu for about almost six months and just returned, and am always staggered by the increase of traffic. And I wonder if you all would offer your critical comments on the total lack of innovative uh traffic planning if if that's not a total oxymoron. Uh the city council did reject the uh billions of federal dollars that were going to come in for uh transit system, but yet as far as I can tell, there have been absolutely no alternatives or innovative ideas about how to control the traffic. I've been on other island states where they restrict the number of automobiles, and you lawyers are the first folks to say that's not constitutional, restrictions about population and automobiles simply can't fly under the current judicial system.

[0:08:20] Caller (Nancy): But I think that many people agree we have reached total carrying capacity in these islands and that we need even more draconian regulations, and we might have to think about carrying capacity and limiting automobiles and limiting population. But my question really does pertain to your comment about the the legislative both at the county and state level, inability to come up with any kind of alternative solution to the problem. If they don't want rail, then let's have a better kind of rail or some viable alternative because the automobiles are just really choking our uh Aina.

[0:08:59] Randall Roth: Nancy, let me guess, you're not a lawyer?

[0:09:01] Caller (Nancy): No, I'm a political theorist.

[0:09:04] Randall Roth: Um, I'm I'm sitting here making a a tally, and at first I I wrote down that your concern is is traffic, but now I'm wondering, is your primary concern traffic, or is it leadership?

[0:09:16] Caller (Nancy): It's it's a real holistic problem. Obviously, I'm talking about the complete over taxing of our environment, whether it's a luxury condo development, a a massive influx of population without proper housing and traffic infrastructure. The larger question is one of carrying capacity, but the traffic problem is I think one that's very visible to most people.

[0:09:39] Randall Roth: Well, and I think you put your finger on an important element and that is the law. Uh we cannot just unilaterally control our population, uh whether it's the lawyer's fault or or nobody's fault, uh our constitution is such that the people of Hawaii cannot control immigration or in-migration, and uh nobody seems to think that the federal government is is willing to grant us any sort of exemption, notwithstanding the fact that we're an island state.

[0:10:04] Caller (Nancy): Well, there really isn't a movement to do so, and I'm thinking that people might need to start thinking along those lines.

[0:10:10] Randall Roth: Okay. Joanne Punu.

[0:10:11] Joanne Punu: I just just wanted to make a comment Nancy, um while while certainly Randy makes a good point about the uh constitutionality of controlling population, um I think that there is a uh I agree with you completely, and I I see it as a leadership problem. That people are very, very unwilling to tackle this issue. It is not an easy one, it is a difficult one, and I would say that this is one where you need to put really tough questions to those people running in your area about their specific plans. Um I think that this is essentially not going to be particularly popular with voters, and that's why they're going to be reluctant to talk about it.

[0:10:48] Joanne Punu: Because it's going to affect every single one of us, you know, whether it's um, you know, debit cards for to discourage travel at certain hours, whether it's building more freeways. Um you're it's a controversial thing and I think this is an issue in which community planning is absolutely essential, but we need leadership to get those community ideas together.

[0:11:09] Caller (Catherine): Could you say something uh could you offer some insight as to the complete uh immobilization of both the state and the city to take any action on traffic. They did reject the transit plan, so what alternatives have they offered in the two years subsequent?

[0:11:25] Randall Roth: Well, I think what I would encourage you to do, Nancy, and encourage all of our listeners to do, if if you think that's a very good question, and I happen to think it's an an outstanding question, uh make sure that all of the candidates, whether it's the candidate for the legislature in your district or the candidate for governor or whomever, ask them that question, and ask them how they would have voted on on Fixed Rail, and ask them whether they

[0:11:47] Caller (Catherine): Well, we know how they voted because the record is there.

[0:11:49] Randall Roth: Well, I'm talking about the people who are running for for other offices who weren't on the city council, but ask them, for example, uh whether they would be in favor of increasing the the cost of gasoline in order to uh address the traffic problem or what have you. Again, the idea isn't that there's a right answer that everyone in the community will agree to, but I think we in the community need to know where they stand on on these important issues that you've raised. Thank you very much, Nancy.

[0:12:12] Caller (Catherine): Sure, thanks.

[0:12:13] Randall Roth: We've got a long distance call so we're going to put him to the the top of the list. George from Molokai. George, you're on the air.

[0:12:19] Caller (George): Oh, good morning. Uh I'm George P Buddy from Molokai and I I am a candidate for Oh candidate for governor, right. The Libertarian Party, right? And I'm so glad you're addressing uh the uh the issues of candidates answering questions because uh I want to and I want to make a distinction between the effort you folks are making to get hard questions out to candidates to all the candidates compared with the um uh so-called effort that the uh Power 94 um um campaign to get candidates to answer questions is doing. That's the uh one with uh the television news and uh the uh I think it's the Star Bulletin Right. are putting together and they are excluding the uh the real candidates uh who have have actually filed their papers and are and are legitimate uh filed candidates from from these uh these questions.

[0:13:09] Caller (George): Uh the ones you hear about all the time, um, you know, Psyche and Fasi and Kaitano and and Lewen, are being uh asked their questions uh asked their answers to the questions and the rest of us are being uh ignored and excluded from this from this whole uh whole thing.

[0:13:26] Randall Roth: Your your program, however, is uh is heading toward making sure that you get answers from all the candidates and I want to applaud you folks for doing that. Well, thank you, George. I appreciate it, and uh rest assured, we're going to be asking you and all the other candidates for governor a lot of tough questions. Uh today's show, I want to try and get as many folks from the community to tell us what those questions should be. Okay. I've got some some suggestions for the questions that should be here. Well, we're going to ask you for answers. So Thanks a lot for your call, George.

[0:13:53] Caller (George): Well, wait wait. let let me suggest to you some of the questions that should be. We're going to give you 15 seconds, George. 15 seconds. What what would the candidates do to cut state spending by 50% or more? Okay. What would the candidates do to cut taxes by 50% or more? These are the kind of things we need to put a uh a good boost in our economy. Cut state spending and cut taxpayers, so that cut tax uh collections so that taxpayers have more money to spend on developing businesses. What are we going to do to protect the environment?

[0:14:23] Randall Roth: George, I guarantee you, we're going to ask you those same questions and a whole bunch of other questions, and we're going to ask the other candidates the same questions. Joanne Punu has a comment to make and then we've got a list of other callers on the line, so I really appreciate your call, George. I'll be talking to you.

[0:14:36] Caller (George): Okay, thank you.

[0:14:37] Joanne Punu: I just want to reassure George that I've had a kind of inside peak at the questions that many people in the community have already submitted to the Pop 94 campaign. And and I've been working with them, entering them in a database, and I want to assure you George that the question that keeps coming up is cuts in government spending and downsizing of government. So the people are definitely asking that question.

[0:15:00] Randall Roth: I'm particularly disappointed that Governor Waihee couldn't be here today in part because of um uh the recent uproar about state workers up 41%. It will be interesting to hear his comments on that when he is on the show. In case you joined us late, you're listening to the Price of Paradise Radio Show. I'm here with Joanne Punu, and we're listening as callers tell us the issues that should be the highest priority to us, the people of Hawaii. Your calls are welcome. The number is 955-8821. Neighbor Islanders are invited to call collect. The number again, 955-8821. Well, Ray from Waikeiki, you've been waiting patiently. You're on the air.

[0:15:38] Caller (Ray): Hello, good morning. Thanks for taking my call. My uh main concern right now is uh I was wondering if you can explain to me how or why does it seem to me that the hotel industry here is so powerful? And I was wondering exactly how much of their money or how much money do they like uh sort of like put back into the community? Because since Hawaii hasn't really diversified its uh its economy, so to speak, because they seem to me to put so much money, time and energy into the the tourism thing. But yet, it doesn't seem that the the community outside of Waikeiki or greater Honolulu is benefiting from that.

[0:16:14] Randall Roth: Well, I I guess if somebody from that industry were here, he or she would point out that they're putting a lot of money into the economy and that they hire a lot of people and they pay a lot of wages. And these are um uh jobs that that maybe aren't the best jobs in the world, uh but they're jobs. Um so again, not to uh to be speaking for other people. I think that's probably something they would be saying. Joanne, do you have any thoughts about Ray's comment?

[0:16:40] Joanne Punu: Well, I mean he's he's back at the heart of the issue again though, which is the the quality of our economy. You know, um and he's raising that point again, and I think you can't um my sense is that that this industry is very defensive about talking about what they put back into the community in terms of donations and contributions and things. I I I have no numbers, I have no figures, and I'd like to see that to be frank. Um and they're powerful because they're they're the economic base right now.

[0:17:10] Randall Roth: When you say powerful, are we getting back to uh trust in government, or are we concerned that powerful people in this community somehow have uh more of a connection to what goes on in government than do other people in the community? Or is that Ray, was that part of your comment?

[0:17:25] Caller (Ray): Exactly. Uh yeah, you guys are hitting the nail on the head and just basically reiterating my feelings. I mean because to me, it just seems like the hotel industry is is incredibly powerful here in Honolulu and they they have pretty much free run over what they can do and now. Seems to me that since they hire people, you know, from all around the island to come and work in these hotel industries and people in the community benefit from it. I mean, that seems to me that that's that may be their justification for doing some of the things that they they can do. I mean they they can always say, well, yeah, well we hire people, we do this, we put money to but it seems that there can be more done and I don't think that they're being uh, you know, uh what's the word? Uh mandated by the government to uh, you know, to do more, I think, since, since it's like the biggest thing that Hawaii's got going on right now.

[0:18:13] Joanne Punu: That's a good question. I'd like to see them answer just exactly how much they put back in for what they get out.

[0:18:18] Randall Roth: We're we're keeping track of all of this, Ray. I appreciate uh your suggestion in terms of what we ought to be asking folks. Thank you. Uh our next caller, Alfred from Kaimuki. Alfred, you're on the air.

[0:18:27] Caller (Alfred): Yes, uh I like to mention a fact that every year there's hundreds of students who graduate from law. And then, but they cannot practice law because they have to be have to pay a license fee. They have to pay malpractice insurance and they have to get into uh corporation to hire them. My point is that there should be some deregulation of the legal profession to allow representatives of corporation and representatives of interest groups to uh to to have a standing in court. The same thing that the uh I have

[0:19:00] Speaker 1: the internal revenue code has the permitting people to represent corporation and represent special interest groups in court to give them that kind of standing.

[0:19:13] Speaker 2: Okay.

[0:19:14] Speaker 1: You don't have to be a licensed attorney. Many people don't want to go into problems because I have to hire a lawyer, I have to pay the lawyer's fee. But if you get these students to get in there, get themselves as officials of corporation or official of special interest group and have their standing in court.

[0:19:30] Speaker 2: Okay.

[0:19:32] Joanne Punu: Um, I I because I'm the assistant dean, the last and work a lot with the students and and and this and um you're right. They're about approximately 300 new attorneys that enter the the the barn in Hawaii every year of which by the way only about 70 are from the University of Hawaii. But I think um what you're asking for exists already without formality, and that is the notion of pro bono service by lawyers. You're asking for special or public interest groups to be represented. Um, you're asking for them to provide a service and increasingly, I think, and and I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not trying to defend my own. Um increasingly I think that that lawyers are becoming more aware of their need to serve the community in in these pro bono ways.

[0:20:17] Joanne Punu: And for example, the University of Hawaii law school. Now, we have a graduation requirement which requires students to do pro bono service. So I think that that is coming in a change of attitude among the attorneys.

[0:20:28] Speaker 2: Thank you, Alfred for your call. Our next caller is Lou from Oahu. Lou, you're on the air.

[0:20:34] Caller (Lou): Good morning Randy. Lou Rose here. And I have a question that I think uh has really been overlooked so far. Um, you know, we're facing the prospect of uh a Kingdom of Hawaii on the one hand, and our federal and state governments on the other. And uh I think we have an unprecedented degree of integration of uh the two cultures here. And I'm wondering how will the laws of these two governments accommodate the spatial integration of their subjects? I can give you an example if you like. Um, you know, in in the case of Native Americans on uh their isolated reservations on the mainland, uh they have a contiguous reservation area, and those people who live there have their own system, uh their own police, their own courts, their own penal institutions, and so on. And I think it's a relatively easy thing for them to exist side by side with uh the state and federal government. Um, but how's that going to happen here? I mean, uh anybody facing this this issue yet?

[0:21:36] Speaker 2: I'm I'm wondering is is part of that question Lou, just this question of of how would sovereignty impact on on non- Hawaiians?

[0:21:46] Caller (Lou): Well, I'm still here and I'm concerned about how it's going to impact on the Hawaiians as well as the non-Hawaiians. I think there could be a lot of confusion and uh a lot of community hurt.

[0:21:58] Speaker 2: I guess the reason I I put it in those other terms is that uh I know some of the candidates for governor who've been asked to comment on sovereignty have had a tendency to say, well, this is something that um uh the native Hawaiian community needs to work out and that uh others shouldn't really be involved in the process right now. I'm curious what are your thoughts on that?

[0:22:18] Caller (Lou): No, I think the rest of us have to be involved because we will definitely be uh impacted by any sovereign nation. I I it's uh you know what has happened in a lot of countries, uh where one government has taken over from another, is that the subjects of the former government have simply fled because they could not live with the new laws.

[0:22:42] Speaker 2: Well, I think uh you've described uh the the elephant on the table and regardless of of what the right answer is in the listeners' minds, it's certainly uh the right question. It's something we need to ask the candidates.

[0:22:54] Caller (Lou): Well, I hope you put them put their feet to the fire.

[0:22:57] Speaker 2: Okay. Thank you Lou. Bye-bye. Our next caller, uh, Brave Soul has given us his last name as well as his first, George Chaplin. George, you're on the air.

[0:23:06] Caller (George): Uh, good morning uh, Randy and Joanne.

[0:23:09] Speaker 2: Good morning George.

[0:23:10] Joanne Punu: Hi George.

[0:23:11] Caller (George): Hi. I think that the worst we've we've been hearing specifics and of course I could get into that, but uh I'd like to just uh say a slightly broader word. I think the worst enemy of democracy is public apathy and we have a lot of apathy here, so I would say that the biggest issue before us in Hawaii is getting people to realize that they can decide the quality of government they want. And I recently came across a couple of brief quotations that I feel make this point and I'm wondering if I might quote them.

[0:23:46] Speaker 2: Would you please?

[0:23:47] Caller (George): Yeah, the first is from the book Profiles in Courage by John F. Kennedy long before he became president. He wrote, we the people are the boss and we will get the kind of political leadership, be it good or bad, that we demand and deserve. The other quotation has to do with the feeling of many people that they have uh no power, that they're losing control of their destiny. Well, on that point, let me quote William Jennings Bryan, who in a speech in Washington, D.C. Excuse me. A century ago said, destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice. It is not a thing to be wished for, it is a thing to be achieved. And uh just to put in a little plug here, that's why I'm interested in pop 94. It's uh grassroots, it's nonpartisan and by intensely questioning uh candidates for uh major office and uh insisting on specific responses, it can provide real hope that uh that in this year's election, the people can select candidates who will respond for the demands uh for good government. I simply want to say that I think pop 94 is an idea whose time has come.

[0:25:07] Speaker 2: Well, thank you George for that and and thank you for those quotes and uh and for all your comments. Really appreciate it. Right, good luck. Thank you. You're listening to the Price of Paradise radio show. Your calls are welcome and phone lines are open. The number to call is 955-8821. Joanne Punu and I are asking callers to tell us what issues concerned them the most, what issues should we be putting to the candidates. Your calls are welcome, phone lines are open, the number is 955-8821. We have a caller from Kailua, Ruth. You're on the air.

[0:25:39] Caller (Ruth): Yes, thank you. A while ago, you mentioned that the we have a Constitution in America and we cannot deal with people unilaterally, whether they're immigrants or illegal ones, I presume you meant. Excuse me. I was thinking, well, we have an American Constitution for Americans. We cannot regulate foreign governments with it. Why should we protect their criminals?

[0:26:06] Speaker 2: Uh, well, earlier when I was commenting that we can't regulate uh immigration or inmigration, uh I was referring to legal immigration. Um, folks coming from other countries and then in migration, folks coming from the US mainland. Uh Oh, I'm sorry. Immigration is regulated by by the federal government, which we here in Hawaii have um, you know, very little control over. And uh if somebody wants to move here from California, uh we simply have to make room because uh being a member of the United States means letting folks from other states uh come in and go out of this state without um any sort of uh of barrier.

[0:26:43] Caller (Ruth): Well, yes, perhaps my answer isn't completely passe that uh there are such rumbles going around the world.

[0:26:52] Speaker 2: I see. Yes, I understand. Thank thank you, Ruth. We have uh another caller, uh, Maria, Maria from Molokai. You're on the air.

[0:27:03] Caller (Maria): Maria, can you hear me? Yes, I can hear you.

[0:27:05] Speaker 2: Good morning.

[0:27:06] Caller (Maria): Good morning. Uh Maria Hus from Molokai, a quick uh suggestion. George Washington went back after two terms back to his farm. I think that we can think if we were to think in some terms of severely limiting the opportunity for politicians to go on and on and on from one office to another, if they had to go back to the private sector, they would be in closer touch with the population. At the present, uh they just look for the next job and the next uh way that they can make more money. I also believe that there should be more volunteerism in line with one of your previous speakers, if some of the the students would say they would serve a an apprenticeship for free, if the people and also the senior citizens can volunteer their service, then we could cut down the cost of government. And if we had more volunteers in there, more business people who didn't have to look for their next salary increase, then we might be able to break the back of the old boy network.

[0:28:05] Joanne Punu: Giant Puno, do you have a comment on that? The notion of community service, hopefully is is on the rebound again and I think you're right, Maria. We've we've kind of lost the sense and notion of community um throughout this country and and regretfully, and very sadly, here in Hawaii. I think you're right. We ask government to do an awful lot that we as community people together should be taking care of. You know, be careful what you wish for you just may get it and sometimes if you invite, you know, a lot of government into your life, you have to live with the consequence. I would like to see a lot of these issues go back into our communities. Now, just a comment on term limits. Um I am of mixed mind on them. I hear the argument against them where people saying, look, they stand for office so we can always vote them out. I'm saddened by the this rising cry for term limits across the country because I think it represents this increased sense of powerlessness, this feeling of people not being involved in the political process and no longer feeling they can turn people out of office, and that's the sad part to me.

[0:29:11] Caller (Maria): Well, I think though that on the term on the plus side of the term limits with the high visibility that an incumbent has, it's impossible for almost impossible for challengers to get anywhere and I think there should be a term limit not only on the particular office but on the business of being able to climb up. If you want to know what is going on then you should volunteer for let's say two years. If you can't afford to do that and if you just want to live off of the public trough, then you have no business in public office.

[0:29:38] Speaker 2: Maria, we're going to ask the candidates your question. That strikes me as an awfully important one.

[0:29:43] Caller (Maria): Well, I'm a candidate too, you know. And that's why I'm thinking I'm some of these things are are that's a very important thing and I really believe that people uh should give should give to the government, not just take.

[0:29:54] Speaker 2: Right. Thank you very much Maria. Appreciate your call. Thank you.

[0:38:00] Caller (Nancy): they could get involved with this because they're feeling frustrated and there just seems to be a link between how I'm feeling and how I can make a difference.

[0:38:10] Randall Roth: That's a great question. I think we should ask that of the candidates. In the meantime, this Pop 94 community issue conference is scheduled for July 9th at the East-West Center. Anyone wanting to attend, and I would encourage you to to give us a call and and to sign up. We have quite a bit of room left. The plan is that we're going to, as a community, try to figure out just what it is that we should be asking the candidates, how it is that the community should be involved in this process. And we see that as a small step in the direction of what you're describing, but I think your point of asking the candidates how they think we can get more involved is an excellent point.

[0:38:48] Caller (Nancy): And if I wanted to sign up for that, what number would I call?

[0:38:51] Randall Roth: The number is 956-6553. That's 956-6553. Thanks a lot, Nancy.

[0:38:58] Caller (Nancy): Okay, thank you.

[0:38:59] Randall Roth: We have well, let's see. This is the Price of Paradise Radio Show. We are live and our phone lines are open. Just call 955-8821 and we'll have you on the line in no time. The number again, 955-8821. Julie, Julie from Kaniuhe, you're on the air.

[0:39:16] Caller (Julie): Yes, I was just going to question, um there a number of people have brought up issues of environment, but really, basically, as it says, is the um, you know, population issue and things of that sort. Um, I've been putting together some questions for some candidates and I have one question, I hope maybe you would probably issue a Let's hear it. to date, the development of water sources has been dictated by land development to the detriment of practically everything around here. What will you do to ensure that development is restricted by the availability of water? And I'm thinking of several developments on Oahu that this really applies to.

[0:39:50] Randall Roth: I'm kind of curious. Joanne Punu earlier you were saying that our our number one challenge is is the economy, and um is it possible that we've got a really tough choice here that if we're going to restrict development of land in order to protect our our environment, and in order to marshal our scarce water resources, is that running uh against the grain so far as um providing good, high-paying jobs, increasing the tax base, etc. Is that one of those tough choices that people talk about?

[0:40:20] Joanne Punu: I don't think it has to be, actually. I'm not convinced that that has to be such a such an either-or situation. And um you know, in fact, taking care of our environment, excuse me can actually provide some very good jobs for people and um that that in and of itself is an employment market. Okay. for Hawaii.

[0:40:43] Randall Roth: Julie, um I'm keeping track of what people's concerns are. Would you say that uh in a word, your biggest concern is environment?

[0:40:50] Caller (Julie): My biggest concern is the environment. I was hoping also, too, that some legislation would have gone through with regard to bottle recycling, and in other words, the charging for bottles so that those things would come back to a particular point.

[0:41:02] Randall Roth: Mhm. We're hearing a lot of concern about recycling and protecting our water supply and all sorts of issues having to do with the environment.

[0:41:08] Caller (Julie): Right, and we are all going to pay for it at some point, and I think that's what people don't seem to understand with development. They can just come and go and the people that are left are the ones that have to be paid, will pay for what happens, in other words, what you get at the end.

[0:41:20] Randall Roth: All right. Thank you, Julie.

[0:41:21] Joanne Punu: Before we leave Julie, I just want to say those are great questions, Julie, especially in the sense that they also provide suggestions and they're very specific suggestions. Those are the kinds of things that are really going to be helpful to to the rest of us in in what we should be asking our candidates but also to the candidates. Those are great.

[0:41:40] Caller (Julie): Mhm, thank you.

[0:41:41] Randall Roth: Thank you, Julie. Today's topic is the People's Agenda for 1994. Specifically, what issues should be given the highest priorities by our elected officials. With me in the studio is Pop 94 organizer Joanne Punu. The number to call is 955-8821. Robert from Kulio Valley. Robert, you're on the air.

[0:42:01] Caller (Robert): Yeah, that I have a rather simple uh question that I'll vote for anybody for Governor that will see that routine road maintenance is done at night. That's That's my uh my bottom line right there.

[0:42:13] Randall Roth: I mean, I think a lot of the callers too are are somewhat I don't know what blinded or naive about the political structure in Hawaii, but I mean, underlying the whole thing is like the economic situation for most families and just like you look at us on the road construction, you have those police officers standing out there. Well, they're actually I mean that's overtime. They're working another job is basically what they're doing.

[0:42:34] Caller (Robert): We know other place in the United States, those guys should be flagmen getting paid nine or $10 an hour, but you got these trained police officers. They need the extra income so they're out there. And you know, I mean, I'd like to see that, you know, those guys not there because they don't do anything all day, they stand for eight hours. I mean, that's not good for them or us, you know.

[0:42:51] Randall Roth: Well, yeah. You've touched a a nerve here with Joanne Punu, she's saying good point, good point. I mean that whole but that whole thing ties into the whole economic situation. Well you can't say to these guys well, you know, we'll raise your salary so you don't have to take on this extra job, you know. And it's like, it's just okay.

[0:43:08] Caller (Robert): I mean, it's everything here is it's like this big domino thing. It's like, okay, uh, H3 should have been done 10 years ago, right? But you can't in a island economy, you don't want to bring in a a, you know, an incredible amount of construction people and then lay them off, right? I mean it's like that 10-mile stretch of 10-lane highway in LA was repaired like in four months. You know, because they work 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and they were on $100,000 a day bonus. Yeah. But you can't bring equipment in here and do that. So I mean, it's like moving things here, it's like it's amazing. You you pull one string in one place and half the house falls down, so All right.

[0:43:46] Caller (Robert): Anyway, I'll vote for any Governor that routine maintenance at night. That's my bottom line. We'll pass that along so they know there's one vote they've got if they just take that approach. Thanks a lot, Robert.

[0:43:56] Randall Roth: We have a number of callers on the line. Bill from Kailua, you've been waiting patiently. Bill, you're on the air.

[0:44:01] Caller (Bill): Yes, good morning to you and your guest. I want to address this question of the feeling of powerlessness. I think a good deal of this derives from the fact that people are so ignorant of what the our national constitution really provides for the for the citizen. I I case in point is the final clause in Amendment 10, which states that those matters which are not specifically addressed by the constitution are reserved to the states and the people. I repeat that, such things as as are not addressed by the constitution are reserved to the states and the people. So there is your authority for for getting involved as I see it. It's just that it's just one one place in the constitution where it's very clear.

[0:44:56] Randall Roth: So you you would agree with George Chaplin that uh uh there is a sense of powerlessness, but there doesn't need to be that sense that we have it within our power to change that?

[0:45:06] Caller (Bill): Right. I mean, we keep saying that, but I mean, I I I I think we have to pinpoint some areas where they where the authority can be recognized. All right.

[0:45:18] Randall Roth: Well, we will translate that into a question along the lines of uh you know asking the candidates to tell us whether they think there's a sense of powerlessness and if so, what should be done about it and and it sounds as though you would like to uh have them talk a little bit more about what we can do under um uh the 10th amendment as opposed to what we can't do under various other amendments that I could give you Okay. Now for example, even even this drive to for the universal health thing, it's not addressed by the constitution and strictly speaking, it is an unconstitutional move. Okay. Well, thank you very much, Bill. I appreciate your call. We've got All right. Have a good day. You too. We've got a number of people on the line. I'm going to push Phil to the top of the line because he's calling from Maui. Phil, you're on the air.

[0:46:04] Caller (Phil): Yeah, hi. Um, I just have one question uh that I would like to hear uh, you know, the politicians ask and uh one other comment that I'd like to make really briefly is um my question is is uh really fundamental. I I would like to hear the politicians ask, you know, what just uh sounds really simple, but I think it's really important what they think uh the role of government should be, you know? In other words, uh That's a great question. In other words, do they think uh, you know, it's government's responsibility to to uh educate our children and provide our health care and do they think it's their responsibility to everything from repairing the streets to monitoring uh business, you know what I mean? I I think that's a really valid question and I I think you're right and I think Joanne Punu said it uh earlier in in other words.

[0:46:53] Joanne Punu: That is the underlying question to so many. Um I guess my only caution to to you would be, Phil, to make sure that when a candidate answers that question, that you don't get jargon, you don't get verbiage, that you get some real specific, clear answers. If it's not answered in your mind, keep at him.

[0:47:12] Randall Roth: Right. If they say more services and lower taxes, we we need to be a little bit suspicious, right? All right. Okay. If I can, I just like to make one one other comment that's kind of uh little little different than the mainstream is that uh you guys made a comment earlier about voting and heard a lot about registering to vote and I think uh I think it's really worthwhile to to recognize the fact that a lot of people uh do vote by not voting in a sense that if I, you know, if I have a choice between uh Jack and Jill and and uh I don't like either of them, uh I don't think it's morally correct for me to vote for the one I dislike least. You know what I mean?

[0:47:49] Randall Roth: We had a caller on this show some time ago suggests that uh we should be able to vote against people, so that instead of for Jack, for Jill or not vote for anyone, you could vote against Jack. But I don't think that's going to happen. Thanks a lot, Phil. Appreciate your call. Right. Thank you. We have uh Dan from Kaimuki on the line. Dan, you're on the air.

[0:48:08] Caller (Dan): Hello, thanks for all your great work and getting the community involved in the political process. Thank you. And I'd like to bring up the uh crucial issue of uh civil rights and justice for everyone. Mhm. And of course, we know that there's always been some groups who have been it's been socially popular to discriminate against such as blacks and themselves and Jewish people and even um sometimes native Hawaiians so the lands are taken away. And right now it seems very popular in some quarters to discriminate against gays and lesbians. Mhm. And um I would ask that the same process be allowed to happen in in the south. It was the courts that had to the excuses were that it would economically hurt the South, it would split up the South, destroy the South, of course that didn't happen and the courts were allowed to act um women having the right to vote, that was that hadn't happened in the courts uh and what what I saw this year happening was that these groups could tell lies and uh discriminate against gays and lesbians and accuse them for everything like destroying the whole family, of any problem that happened if you went to the hearings, the pain and the agony that causes, and the legislature just let this go on and on and taking away time from important issues like education and um you know, in our political system and integrity and and lawmakers and just allow this to go on and on in the papers and these people that had no factual basis coming in and causing pain and agony. I myself grew up Mhm. uh substance abuse, now I don't take anything, drink anything, and hating myself, you know, it's not a church issue. I quit going to church because I had to had to listen to this and it was destructive for me. This is a civil rights issue, and I just wish that uh the public that hears this would know what we're going through, and and look at any group, the way that the Nazis did the same thing about Jewish people, and hurt them, and and what the political system did to them, the same thing in certain quarters is happening to us. So we need we need to ask the candidates their thoughts on civil rights and all that sort of thing, right? And leave it leave it to the courts where where people can taken facts and not allow people who have no basis in evidence to to make decisions for Okay. for the population. Thank you very much, Dan.

[0:50:14] Randall Roth: You know, it it's interesting. I think sometimes people wonder, well, why would you ask the people to tell us what the issue should be? Let's just trust our elected officials to tell us what the issues should be and and uh Dan's call reminded me this last session of the legislature uh spent most of its time talking about guns, gambling, and gays, and uh those are three topics that not too many of our callers have said should be on the top of the list. Uh, we've got a number of callers on the air. First, let me remind people that they're listening to the Price of Paradise Radio Show. I'm here with Joanne Punu. We are live. Our phone lines are open. 955-8821. We're talking about the People's Agenda for 1994. Specifically, what issues should be given the highest priority by our elected officials. Andy, you've been waiting very patiently. Andy from Alewa Heights, you're on the air.

[0:51:02] Caller (Andy): Hi Randy, how are you? Just fine. Randy, I was curious about the Community Issues Conference on the 19th, excuse me, on the 9th, that Pop 94 is going to run. And also, uh could you talk a little bit about that and and what's going to happen with the the questions that are going to come out of that uh that conference? What what what what do you How is Pop 94 going to be handling those um I mean, I present how are you going to present those to the candidates? Sure. Uh, it's going to be held at the East-West Center, uh Saturday, July 9th. It'll begin about 8 o'clock. Go to 1 o'clock. We've got a a number of people who are going to be making um uh brief presentations. Mildred Kosaki is going to uh kick the thing off by just talking about uh what our challenge is. And uh the big thing is that we're going to take what we assume by then will be about 10,000 questions that we've received from the community. Questions like the ones that uh folks have phoned in today. We're going to categorize them and we're going to try to refine them to figure out just what are the basic issues that people are asking about, and then the charge of the two or 300 people at this community issue conference is to come up with the most important issues and the specific questions that we as a community want to ask the candidates uh in order to cast our votes intelligently and in order to empower the candidate that wins. Uh we feel that that if somebody gets elected having talked about the tough choices that he or she is prepared to make, then that person is going to be able to do something in those areas as opposed to uh the powerlessness of candidates who get elected after having not really said anything. Uh, in a nutshell, that's what it's all about. Joanne Punu has been involved in in this process from the beginning. I just ask uh Joanne, is there anything you'd like to add about the Community Issues Conference?

[0:52:39] Joanne Punu: Um no, except that I'm looking forward to it and and I think it um it should be an intriguing process and and a great challenge to try to refine these questions um into, you know, the general concerns. But I can tell you, Andy, from as I said, peaking in on the questions that there are some clear themes emerging.

[0:52:57] Caller (Andy): I mean after that um you're going to present that to the candidates and uh that K. Joanne is going to have a a show where you can basically tape that uh your presentation of the questions to the candidates, right?

[0:53:08] Randall Roth: Uh absolutely. We know for sure that the gubernatorial candidates are going to be involved and we know for sure that uh the advertiser is going to give us a lot of space in the Sunday Focus section, and uh Channel 2 News is going to give us a lot of time on the evening news. So the community will have access to this process. They'll not only be able to take part in the determination of what the questions are, but they will be able to view and and read what it is that the candidates are saying about these questions.

[0:53:35] Joanne Punu: One last comment too um that I think we have to be realistic about is the Pop 94 is not going to be able to reach every single candidate for every office. But what I think will happen is hopefully by framing these questions, I have a very personal hope that individuals just sitting there in front of their TVs, day by day, trying to take care of their families, feed their kids, um will then be given basically a list of questions that they can turn around and ask whoever's running for the house in their district or whatever, including, you know, those candidates that we can't get to. Um and that's a greater hope for me. I mean a kind of the ripple effect.

[0:54:16] Randall Roth: That's that's a good point. I think uh you know it's maybe a little presumptive for people in the community to tell the candidates what the answers are, but if uh if we step up and say, 'Hey, here are the good questions. You tell us what you think the answers are and then we'll decide whether to vote for you.' That's that's great.

[0:54:31] Caller (Andy): Is um uh what of the gubernatorial candidates all pretty much uh agree to to sit in and and and take those questions?

[0:54:37] Randall Roth: Uh yes. We we are still talking with uh Mayor Fosse. Um that hasn't yet been firmed up. Uh the Democrat party and the Republican party are are I would say enthusiastic about this. Uh the Libertarian is enthusiastic about this. Um I'm pretty sure that the Green Party is enthusiastic about this and uh I'm really quite optimistic that the best party and Mayor Fosse will be enthusiastic as well. But there are a few issues that we're still discussing with them.

[0:55:06] Caller (Andy): That's great. Thanks a lot Andy.

[0:55:07] Randall Roth: Thank you. We've got a number of people on the phone. Uh let's take Graham from the Big Island first. Graham, you're on the air.

[0:55:14] Caller (Graham): Uh good morning, Randy. Um I would like to ask uh the candidates, what are they going to do to increase the empowerment of local community groups?

[0:55:24] Randall Roth: Good question. Good question. Especially in a highly centralized state like Hawaii, Joanne Punu over here is smiling from ear to ear. I think uh I think you've asked um uh one of the single most important questions that we have to ask. And I suppose that goes to what uh someone earlier Phil earlier was saying, what is the role of government, and maybe one of the roles is to uh a powerful empower folks on a on a local level.

[0:56:00] Caller (Graham): Yeah. I I I think that there is um an increasing uh eagerness amongst local groups. I know here in Volcano on the Big Island, I know down at Nahoalehu uh at Hawaiian Ocean View Estates, the local groups are getting increasingly uh active and increasingly able to to take more power and to do more for their communities.

[0:56:12] Randall Roth: Okay. Well, thank you very much, Graham. Appreciate it. Thank you. Uh we have a call from Maui. We have Mori. Mori, you're on the air. Mori, can you hear me in Maui?

[0:56:21] Caller (Mori): Yes, I can hear you.

[0:56:22] Randall Roth: You're on the air.

[0:56:23] Caller (Mori): Thank you so much. Appreciate the uh opportunity to express myself. Uh as a business person, applying for a loan, I'm required to file a business plan and a financial plan, laying out who I am, what my background is, what my uh expectations are, how I expect to spend the money, um and what time frame is involved. Is it unreasonable to ask a candidate to do the same?

[0:56:52] Randall Roth: Well, I don't think it's unreasonable. Jollian, what do you think?

[0:56:55] Joanne Punu: Sounds great to me. Uh uh you know, I I think you've just proposed a good

[0:57:00] Speaker 1: You know, Mori, sometimes I think people don't realize that we've elected people in the past, often times as if they had walked in and said, lend me all your money, sit back and watch and see what happens to it.

[0:57:14] Speaker 2: Surprise.

[0:57:15] Speaker 1: And I think we as a community have discovered that that's not the best way to approach this. And if there's going to be any kind of accountability upfront, before we cast our vote, we've got to do exactly what you're suggesting. We've got to say, please be very specific about what you'd like to do. And you know, a word that a couple of people have been using lately is is yardsticks. We would like to ask the candidates to tell us how we can measure whether they've accomplished what they said they were going to accomplish. How can we better hold them accountable? It seems to me that that's a a fair question. What do you think, Mori?

[0:57:46] Speaker 2: I'm not able to articulate it that well on the air, but uh I've just been thinking about this for a week or two, and I'm going to try to write write it down so that I sound a little more coherent than I do right now. But I would sure like to have my candidates to the people I vote for respond to me as my bankers.

[0:58:03] Speaker 1: All right. Well, I like it, Mori. I like it.

[0:58:06] Speaker 2: Sure. I mean, as a businessman, don't you have to file, even for your own information, and for that of whoever you're employing, quarterly reports, you're looking at bottom lines, you're looking at at profit margins, net revenues, you know, cost of goods sold. You're looking at all of those things on on a ongoing basis, monthly, quarterly, yearly.

[0:58:25] Speaker 1: Right, but I but I but I think that the social issues are equally important and there needs to be a a social reporting and and a social accountability. I'm not just, this is not just a monetary issue.

[0:58:36] Speaker 2: Oh, no, but this I I was analogizing the yardstick notion.

[0:58:40] Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Thank you. Oh, Mori, I just would mention we've been talking about this community issue conference that will be held at the East West Center on Saturday, July 9th. We're planning to take that on the road. We're planning to have many versions of that on all of the neighbor islands, so we will be on Maui and we hope to see you there.

[0:58:58] Speaker 2: You definitely will. July well, whenever I'll be listening, so you let me know.

[0:59:02] Speaker 1: That's wonderful. Thank you. Uh, we've got just five minutes left, but phone lines are open. The number is 955-8821. Neighbor Islanders are invited to call, collect. We're talking about the people's agenda for 1994. What are the issues that the candidates ought to be talking about? What are the questions that we need to ask them? Well, we have a caller from Kaimuki, Marilyn, you're on the air.

[0:59:26] Speaker 2: Good morning.

[0:59:27] Speaker 1: Good morning.

[0:59:28] Speaker 2: Um, the question I have we're going back to education. Should the, um, Board of Education have the power to appoint the superintendent of schools, which is currently situation, or should the governor do the appointing, um, and be totally accountable, or should there be another process, um, that we haven't yet, that hasn't yet been considered?

[0:59:50] Speaker 1: I I think that's a a great question and Joanna has commented that uh we've had a peek at what a lot of people have been submitting in writing as the questions they think the the candidates ought to answer. And that's one of them because right now when there's at least a perception that the public schools are are not as strong as they should be, um, the the school board says, well, we don't have all the power that we need to have and the legislature says it doesn't really have the the control it should have and the governor's office is pointing to the fact that the um school board members are elected rather than appointed. And I guess uh we as a community ought to say, well, if no one is really in control right now, who should be in control and how do we make that happen? And if the person who should be in control, if the person where the the buck should stop is the governor, then maybe uh the answer to that question should be uh an appointed school board rather than an elected school board.

[1:00:41] Speaker 2: Right. Well, I I um I suppose that's something that um actually, we've been seems to me I've been reading about this for years. And that nothing's ever really been done about it, and I hope that this issue is seriously addressed this time around.

[1:00:57] Speaker 1: Are you and your friends talking about this issue?

[1:00:59] Speaker 2: All the time.

[1:01:00] Speaker 1: Great. Call up, call up your uh legislator or uh, you know, ask a candidate for office uh exactly what their thoughts are on that, and and what they think about principals in the unions and what they think about empowering the community through uh SCBM or in other ways. And uh, and again, we in the community, we're we're never going to agree on what the right answers are, but surely we can agree on what the good questions are and that's uh uh exactly what we're trying to do.

[1:01:30] Speaker 2: Um, let me just say that recently I was volunteering at a school, um, thrift shop where we collect a lot of old textbooks and I had two public school teachers come weekly to collect textbooks for their students because they didn't have enough in the classroom.

[1:01:46] Speaker 1: All right. We we hear that over and over and over and and this morning's newspaper indicates that uh it may very well be that the school funding is going to be cut as opposed to increased. And uh, if we as a community have values that uh that suggest that we want more money going into education, then then we need to figure out where that money is going to come from. But uh, it begins, I think with the community making clear to the candidates just what our values are. And if we value education, then we've got to find that money from some place.

[1:02:16] Speaker 2: And I think it should be made clear to the um, those candidates who are running for office that whether a person sends his or her children to private schools or public schools, we all care about the um, future of our public schools, and we need to get rid of the the bunk the myth that private schools, I mean parents who who choose to send their kids to private schools don't care about the state of public schools because we look at the kids coming out of public schools as being the future of legislators or possibly the future, you know, governor or or whatever. Right. Okay, lawmakers, and it it means a lot to all of us.

[1:02:50] Speaker 1: You bet. Thank you, Marilyn. Really really appreciate your call.

[1:02:53] Speaker 2: You're welcome. Thank you.

[1:02:54] Speaker 1: We've we've talked uh on a number of occasions this morning about Pop 94. Uh, if you're not familiar with what Pop 94 is all about, you can get some information by calling 956-6553. If you are familiar but you haven't yet signed a declaration of support, please call 956-6553 and we will send you a declaration of support and ask you to sign it. If this process is going to work, it's going to work because a lot of people from the community, not just a few, but a lot of people from the community declare their support and a high percentage of them engage in volunteerism. This has been driven by volunteers and it's only going to work if a lot of folks out there decide that they have a personal responsibility to make it work.

[1:03:41] Speaker 1: My guest this week was UH Law School Assistant Dean and Pop 94 activist Joanne Punu. This week's show was produced by Suzie Roth with help on the phones from John Roth, Wallie Roth and Tom Roth. Technical assistance provided by Jeff I Lardy. Next week's show will be hosted by Bruce Voss. He and his guests, Nick Ordway and Tom Leopard, will talk about housing in Hawaii, why it costs so much and the prospects for change. It promises to be very interesting. You've been listening to the Price of Paradise Radio Show. I'm Randy Roth, Aloha.

[Note: music/outro 302s — no speech detected from 1:03:41 to end; audio signal confirmed by volumedetect.]