Candidate Ben Cayetano Interview in 1994
Price of Paradise · Hawaii Public Radio · aired 1994-04-01
Guests: Benjamin Cayetano (Lieutenant Governor; 1994 Democratic candidate for governor)
Duration: 1:04:34

[0:00:00] Randall Roth: Good morning. I'm Randy Roth, host of the Price of Paradise radio show and this is a special one hour call in version. Our program regularly airs Saturday mornings at 9:00 on this station and then again Sunday mornings at 8:00 on KHPR 88.1 and KKUA 90.7. With me today in the studio is Democratic candidate for Governor, Ben Cayetano. His resume is long and our time is short, so I'll just highlight a few items. He has degrees from UCLA and Loyola Law School, he's been a practicing lawyer, spent 12 years in the Hawaii State legislature, and for the last eight years, has been Lieutenant Governor of the State. Welcome to our show.

[0:00:38] Benjamin Cayetano: Thank you very much, Randy. Thank you for inviting me.

[0:00:41] Randall Roth: You bet. Do you have a preference for whether I refer to you as Mr. Cayetano or as Ben?

[0:00:45] Benjamin Cayetano: Oh, call me Ben. Everyone calls me Ben.

[0:00:48] Randall Roth: Great. Listeners out there, we invite you to call us at 955-8821. When someone answers your call, just tell them your first name and the part of the state you're calling from. If I do my job well, you won't have to wait long to ask Ben your question. One of our goals is to take as many questions from as many callers as is possible. Consequently, I've asked Ben to keep his responses as short as possible. Phone lines are open. The number is 955-8821 and neighbor islanders are invited to call collect. We have someone on the line, Joanne, are you there? Joanne, do you have a call? You have a question? Well, let's move on. Ben, we've

[0:00:48] Randall Roth: got some questions that were submitted in advance. This first one comes from Steve in Waianae. It says, "Our schools in the Waianae area are in a downward spiral as far as standardized testing can show. What do you propose specifically to overcome this problem?"

[0:01:47] Benjamin Cayetano: Randy, I've been very heavily involved in the the move to reform Hawaii's public schools, and of course, this is a move that's sweeping the country. Education reform is the one of the hottest topics throughout the country. I chair the Task Force on Education Governance and I think that the school system suffers from a couple things. First, we have a centralized top-down bureaucracy which may have been great for a population of 500,000 when I was going to school. But today we have 1.2 million people. The society is so much more complex, I think we need to revamp that system of governance and devolve or empower decision making to the school level. I I'm a firm believer,

[0:01:47] Benjamin Cayetano: for example, that that the probability of making wise decisions is highest when you leave it to people who are right up close to the action. So, pushing concepts such as SABM, lump sum budgeting which was recommended by the task force and which was implemented last year trying to empower the schools at the community level, so that parents and and educators who are part of the schools can actually develop the curriculum which they believe would be most responsive and beneficial to their their students is part of what has to be done. The other part I think would require us to simply invest more resources into the school system. Now, this may mean doing a couple things,

[0:01:47] Benjamin Cayetano: and it will also mean for the next Governor, having to set priorities as to what is and is not important. I am of the mind, for example, that building state-of-the-art prisons costing $70,000 to $100,000 a bed is not a good idea. I want to put my resources on the prevention side, so we need to reallocate government services and get more money for education.

[0:03:54] Randall Roth: Okay. Thank you. We have a caller from the Leeward Coast. Gert, you're on the air.

[0:03:59] Caller (Gert): Uh yes, Mr. Cayetano. Yes, I have a question. How, uh what is your plan if you become a governor in correcting or improving the transit problem from the Leeward to Honolulu. It takes about one hour to hour and a half from Mililani to downtown.

[0:04:17] Benjamin Cayetano: Well you know as you know, I live in Mililani and I I I am in that traffic quite a few times a week, and so I I know it and I experienced it. I also lived in Pearl City before I moved to Mililani and I understand the the problem. I don't think a rail system is the answer. What I what I believe is this: before you get into spending expensive for expensive structures such as rail, you need to do things which probably cost less money. For example, traffic congestion is a is a function of, or a result of employment. You have traffic problems when people go to work and when they return to home. And

[0:04:17] Benjamin Cayetano: so what we need to do, among other things, is to try to decentralize employment. When Ko Olina goes up with 7 to 10 hotels out there on the Leeward Coast, when and if the University of Hawaii is ever the second campus is ever built in in Kapolei and when government moves more of its offices down into the Kapolei area, you're going to find that the traffic patterns will change because people will then begin to adjust where they live. And most of the development will take place out on the Leeward Central Coast [unintelligible — audio glitch] if we can shift jobs there then you're going to find that traffic will become more manageable. We need to,

[0:04:17] Benjamin Cayetano: of course, support the city in developing a a bus system that that is efficient and we have one a pretty good bus system now, but we need to do better. We need to do things like that.

[0:05:50] Randall Roth: Thank you, Gert. On line four we've got Rich from Waipahu.

[0:05:55] Caller (Rich): Morning, Ben. Yes sir. As a small business owner in Hawaii and if you're elected to office, what are your plans for easing encumbrance by government on small business in Hawaii to permit growth?

[0:06:09] Benjamin Cayetano: Rich, there are many things that I think government can do but they are also some things that we can do very little about. For example, the mandatory prepaid health law will continue but perhaps we can take a look at ways to to get the cost of the health care plans down. Workers compensation is a very, very big problem for small business people. I know because many of my friends who are in small business have brought that to my attention. We need to reform workers compensation and I think that that will happen only if you have a governor who is able to sit down with the labor unions and management and make have them recognize that

[0:06:09] Benjamin Cayetano: we all need to work together to resolve this problem. For example, the efforts of Workers Comp have failed in the past because basically, the Chamber of Commerce and other business organizations have come to the table with their focus and criticism on the worker. Well, the worker is just part of the problem. Medical fee schedules, doctors are part of the problem, the way insurance companies administer the laws is part of the problem and so we need to take that kind of a comprehensive approach. Government regulation is something that we can do something about. Now there are some regulations that we have a very difficult time dealing with because these are federal regulations. The Feds, especially the

[0:06:09] Benjamin Cayetano: EPA, for example, impose a great number of regulations which we need to follow, but state regulations can be streamlined and should be streamlined. Finally on an overall point of view, there is too much duplication between the city and the state. For example, if you take the land use commission, that commission was supposed to set just general land use policy. Well, what's happened is that it's it's evolved into a statewide zoning commission and people who want to do business, especially in land development and the development of affordable housing find themselves having to go through a land use process which is very, very complicated and expensive and time-consuming, and then have to go through the same thing

[0:06:09] Benjamin Cayetano: again at the county level. Well, we need to we need to streamline that and I personally will would be going to the legislature and getting the legislature to amend the land use law so that the Land Use Commission is limited to setting general land use policy and does not get involved in some of the nitty gritty stuff that the counties should be doing. That kind of duplication, I think, can be can be improved.

[0:08:46] Caller (Rich): One one last thing. Uh, as a person that's in business and as a person in government, you know that network is very important in the support of your plans and intent and concepts. Yes. Do you see from your eyes that the network that's out there will be supportive of plans when you talk about streamlining, obviously you're talking about moving people from one end of government potentially into another or even closing down different departments? Hopefully having those people absorbed where they can be employed. Is this something that you're looking at five years or 10 years down the road for completion of those plans?

[0:09:26] Benjamin Cayetano: I'm I no, I'm looking at beginning you know, developing a plan and beginning the implementation of that plan by the end of my first year in office. Now, we know what has to be done, Rich. All of the politicians know what has to be done. The best person to to accomplish these kinds of reforms is a governor who is not overly concerned about the political ramifications which are inevitable when one moves or tries to reform government. I went through that with the Task Force on Education Governance where I was as the chairperson of the Task Force, heavily criticized [unintelligible — audio glitch] teachers and and principals who incidentally have endorsed me in this election because

[0:09:26] Benjamin Cayetano: of some of the reforms that I that we propose. I when we established the A+ program, we went through a lot of criticism because we were encouraging on in areas where people thought that this was their turf and no one should come into. You need to have someone who has the political will to tackle these things. It's not a secret as to what needs to be done.

[0:10:37] Randall Roth: Rich, thank you for your questions. I've got three people waiting, so I'm going to move on to Melissa from Kailua. Melissa, you're on the air.

[0:10:44] Caller (Melissa): Hi. I have a question about the A+ program. It's really helped out my family. I'd like to know what other programs the Lieutenant Governor would like to see developed for early childhood education and how could you pay for them in these tough economic times?

[0:10:59] Benjamin Cayetano: Melissa, I'm very glad that the A+ program is helping you and your your children. It's grown incidentally from 15,500 in the first year to 29,000 four years later, and the parents, parents like you have given it a 99% approval rating. I don't think there's any other government program that gets that kind of rating. When it comes to early childhood education, I became a convert to that cause maybe six or seven years ago when some educators opened my eyes as to why some of [unintelligible — audio glitch] education systems in in the Western world and and in Japan and and Asia are doing better than us. One reason they're doing better than us is that they

[0:10:59] Benjamin Cayetano: they invest government resources at an age earlier than five. We only invest in our kids at five year old. We need to do more, you know. Belgium has all of their kids in school at three. All of Europe has the kids in in school by four. Now, I'm not saying that we should have everyone in in in in in school by three year old, but certainly we should be moving in a direction where either through public and private partnerships or government and the private the private sector working together we can begin to develop programs which will give our kids some attention at four year old, at three year old, so that they can have some

[0:10:59] Benjamin Cayetano: structured instruction [unintelligible — audio glitch] I'm not talking about reading and writing. I don't think you we need to be concerned about those things at very early age, but we're talking about developing social skills, developing moral skills, you know, developing attitudes which will help them later on. We can't do those things unless we take money or make hard decisions about other things. For example, I mentioned earlier spending 70 to $100,000 a bed on prisons, that will not happen if I'm the governor of this state, and I can do anything about it. We have some departments where we have programs which were started with the best of intentions and which addressed a need at one time

[0:10:59] Benjamin Cayetano: and these programs today no longer are needed. But they they go on and on and on because no one had the political will to say, "Well, you know, this program is outlive its usefulness, we're going to reallocate resources, we're going to try to place these folks elsewhere." Well, if we can't do that, maybe we're going to have to let people go. I'm willing to do that, and that's how we're going to get money for early childhood education in this state.

[0:13:24] Randall Roth: Thank you, Melissa.

[0:13:25] Caller (Melissa): Thank you.

[0:13:26] Randall Roth: In case you joined us late, you're listening to a special Price of Paradise radio show. I'm Randy Roth and my guest is gubernatorial candidate Ben Cayetano. Your calls are welcome. The number is 955-8821. That's 955-8821. We have another caller Frank from Kaimuki. Frank, you're on the air.

[0:13:46] Caller (Frank): Yes, Lieutenant Governor. Healthcare. Hi, healthcare is the topic of the day. Here is a question for you. In Hawaii mandating benefits is a common occurrence.

[0:13:58] Benjamin Cayetano: Yes.

[0:13:59] Caller (Frank): The Hawaii Prepaid Healthcare Act, for instance, has been amended several times by the state legislature to include things as child health supervision services, in vitro fertilization, broader mental health coverage, alcohol, drug abuse, psychological services, and so on. What is your position with respect to mandating benefits?

[0:14:20] Benjamin Cayetano: I think we need to be very, very careful about mandating benefits because you know, when you do these things in isolation, before you know it, you've added a lot of services to a program like HMSA, for example, which only increases the cost. Oregon a few a few years ago recognized this, and I I have to give credit to the to the Oregon legislature for because what they did was they set up a blue ribbon committee and the task of that blue ribbon committee was to assess all of the medical services, for example, which were available to people, and then to set priorities from those which were essential to life and those that were not. And

[0:14:20] Benjamin Cayetano: at some point in time hold have a dialogue, hold hearings in the community as to where these services should be cut off, if they should be cut off at all to bring the price of health care plans down. And I think we need to go through that process. We've had 40 years of continuous prosperity in this state, we've never had to make these kinds of hard decisions. I remember sitting in the legislature when the folks who wanted in vitro fertilization covered, you know, and at that particular time it only occurred to me in passing that this might add to the cost of HMSA. Well, now it's a reality, and we need to go back and

[0:14:20] Benjamin Cayetano: reassess what we think is important. This is not going to be easy because every one of these services has a support group, but you need to have the governor do it because the governor is the only politician in this state who has the political clout to go through such a process, and that's what I would do.

[0:16:16] Randall Roth: Thank you, Frank. We have another caller. We have Eddie from Kalihi. Eddie, you're on the air.

[0:16:22] Caller (Eddie): Good morning, Lieutenant Governor.

[0:16:24] Benjamin Cayetano: Morning, Eddie, you from my home town. Grown up there.

[0:16:27] Caller (Eddie): Okay. My question is, you know, education is certainly very important here, but without good jobs, you know, our kids will still continue to go to the mainland. So what would you do as governor to develop new industries from within Hawaii and also attract new industries from other states, and also what kind of new industry do you see making its home in Hawaii?

[0:17:01] Benjamin Cayetano: Well, what else, what we call in law a compound question. Yeah, a very good one, a tough question. Eddie, some of our kids are going to have to leave because we can't, for example, it's unlikely that we would ever be able to provide enough jobs for people who decide to become nuclear scientists. But we can, I think, create the environment here which is going to spawn some entrepreneurial opportunities and also some jobs which are good jobs and well paying jobs. I think that we in Hawaii need to recognize a couple of things, however. We need to recognize that there are some things that we can't do as well as others, and we have learned the

[0:17:01] Benjamin Cayetano: hard way that manufacturing is a real tough road for us to go here in this state. I look at the Hawaii economy and diversifying Hawaii economy as being one where we look to discovering niches. We are going to have a niche economy and what I'm what I'm looking to is education because this is the information age, and American higher education in particular is still the best in the world. Boston University was here a couple years ago and they were interested in buying Hawaii Loa College and it kind of shows you that the folks who are in the business of higher education recognize the potential of the Pacific and Asia for American higher education. I also

[0:17:01] Benjamin Cayetano: looked to healthcare as another niche that I think we can exploit. American healthcare is still the best in the world, our doctors are the best in the world and I guess anecdotally, I would support that by pointing out that people like Marcos and the Shah when they got sick they went to Walter Reed and Stanford Medical Center to get care. And this is only the tip of the iceberg, many Asians and Pacific Islanders come to the US to get care. There are many people who go to the University School of Public Health to get an education on on public health, and that's because in Asia and the Pacific, they recognize the American high education is

[0:17:01] Benjamin Cayetano: the best. The need for healthcare is just booming. You know, when you don't have to worry about putting food on the table, and for a long time people in Asia and the Pacific had to worry about those things, then you begin to notice the stink and the sewers, the air pollution, then you want health services and other kinds of things like that. And that's what's happening in Asia. And Indonesia, for example, is going to need 650,000 healthcare workers over the next 15-20 years for [unintelligible — audio glitch] people. And they've got to go someplace to get training, they've got to go someplace to get services. And I think Hawaii can find a niche in providing,

[0:17:01] Benjamin Cayetano: you know, those services [unintelligible — audio glitch] those opportunities. And so those are some of the things that that I would I would do. But basic to all of this and basic to to, I think, creating an environment where we can find or spawn, um, meaningful economic opportunities. Because see, I don't think it's government is going to do that necessarily. I think that the private sector will do it. You need to do a couple of things. You need to have a good public school system. You need to have a good higher education system, a certain size critical mass, I believe, that's going to uplift, uh, the level of knowledge of people in in the society.

[0:17:01] Benjamin Cayetano: If you don't have those things, uh, you can do you can stand on your head, I believe, and you you're going to find the industry will not come here. You need to provide those things. And I learned a uh couple years ago how important these things were when Motorola Motorola came to Hawaii and they were interested in locating here. And a couple of things that they were concerned about, all had to do with education, quality of our public schools, and the fact that we had one university in this state, the University of Hawaii, and they didn't feel comfortable with with that kind of a mass of small mass of learning in this state.

[0:21:07] Randall Roth: I'm going to go to Carol in Kahala. Carol, you're on the air.

[0:21:10] Caller (Carol): Good morning, Lieutenant Governor.

[0:21:12] Benjamin Cayetano: Good morning, Carol.

[0:21:13] Caller (Carol): I've been a lifelong Democrat, but I'm real concerned now about the ethical conduct of many in the Wyhee Administration. And I know you hear that all the time. What can you tell me to make me want to continue supporting you in the Democratic Party? And what would you do differently if you're elected governor, about the ethical standards of your appointees? How would you be different from the Wyhee administration?

[0:21:34] Benjamin Cayetano: Well, you know, um, I believe that um, there's no need to pass anymore laws to to bring about ethical conduct in in government. I don't think a governor even has to get up and give a speech. What I would do, and what I've done for the last 20 years, and you check my record, you're not going to find one person who has worked for Ben Cayetano who has gotten into trouble because they he or she has abused their office. What I would do is bring in a team of people, my directors, my deputies, first of all, who understand what my what what standards of ethical conduct I expect from them. And through my own conduct

[0:21:34] Benjamin Cayetano: as the governor of this state, the message will begin to filter down. We've had some a few individuals who have made life very difficult for most Democrats in this state through their, you know, unethical or questionable conduct. That's not exactly unique to the Democratic Party, I might add. If you look at the Reagan Bush administration, they got they had more people indicted than than any other administration. But that doesn't excuse the the, you know, what's happening in the Democratic Party. These things will not happen with me. And incidentally, while I'm on this subject, I want to talk about this business about the Old Boy Network. This is this is tossed around a lot by my

[0:21:34] Benjamin Cayetano: opponents. They talk about Democrats being the Democratic Party being controlled by the Old Boy Network. Let me say that you people going to find this year that that the Democratic Party is going to a real house cleaning. There's going to be a reform minded Democrat named Richard Port. He is going to be elected as the chairperson of the Democratic Party. I'm almost I'm almost certain about that. And you also will find that the so called old boys and maybe there's some old girls in this whole thing, too, uh, who the press has talked about a great deal, are not supporting me. In fact, when they they saw my my candidacy begin to pick up steam,

[0:21:34] Benjamin Cayetano: they began looking for other people, and a few of them, namely Mr. Mehau, found some solace by going to [unintelligible — audio glitch] other camp. And so, I think that you know, I bring to the table, I believe, a reputation of being an honest public servant over the 20 years that I've I've served in office. And I think that my record will demonstrate that.

[0:24:01] Caller (Carol): Okay, thank you.

[0:24:02] Benjamin Cayetano: Thank you, Carol.

[0:24:04] Randall Roth: We have Jerry from Hawaii Kai. Jerry, you're on the air.

[0:24:07] Caller (Jerry): Good morning, Lieutenant Governor.

[0:24:08] Benjamin Cayetano: Good morning, Jerry.

[0:24:09] Caller (Jerry): I'll be voting for you this year because I believe we need strong independent leadership in government. My my question is, how will the newspapers describe the first 100 days of Governor Cayetano's administration?

[0:24:22] Benjamin Cayetano: Good question. First of all, uh, you know, thank you for, uh, saying that you're going to vote for me and I I I don't recognize your voice, uh. I don't think you're from our headquarters. You're not related to me. Thank you very much, Jerry. Uh I think the words um, innovative, um uh, uh, exciting, um will be two words that you'll hear all the time. And you're going to hear all the time the word the words or the phrase in the public interest. That's what I've done for 20 years in my 20 years of service, and that's what's that's what I'm going to do when I'm I'm I'm governor. I think people will be excited

[0:24:22] Benjamin Cayetano: because the same kind of effort effort, the same kind of passion that I put into establishing the A Plus program along with Charlie Toguchi in the sub cabinet in just six or seven months, uh, you're going to see in in the first year of the Cayetano administration. I'm going to bring in people who want to do public service because it's it's because they they believe it's the right thing to do. Uh, I'm not going to uh, I have never promised anybody who's helped me campaign a job, and that's not going to be a requirement for working for Ben Cayetano. Uh, I'm going to reach out just like Jack Burns reached out when he appointed me

[0:24:22] Benjamin Cayetano: to the Hawaii Housing Authority back in 1972, when I I never knew the guy, never spoke to him. I'm going to reach out and find people who have potential, people who have talent, and people who believe in the vision [unintelligible — audio glitch] I do.

[0:25:50] Randall Roth: Thank you very much, sir.

[0:25:51] Benjamin Cayetano: Thank you, Jerry.

[0:25:52] Randall Roth: Chuck from Kaimuki called in a while ago and said, do you support some form of sovereignty, and if so, what model do you prefer?

[0:26:02] Benjamin Cayetano: Chuck, I I, if you had asked me this question, maybe 10 years ago, I would have kind of dismissed it as being something very remote in time. Today, however, uh, at least for the last five or six years, I've come to the conclusion after talking to my many friends and supporters in the Hawaiian community that sovereignty is an idea whose time has come. And there's no nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come. I don't propose to to, as Governor, to tell the Hawaiian people what form of sovereignty should be should be uh imposed. Uh, I would do this, though, and I think the the next governor has to do this when it

[0:26:02] Benjamin Cayetano: comes to sovereignty. Next governor has to provide the leadership that's going to set the environment for a very meaningful, candid, objective, and positive dialogue about sovereignty. Because what's truly important is that the dialogue on sovereignty, which has to take place so that the Hawaiian community itself can begin to narrow the issues, narrow the issues as to the form of sovereignty and and some of the complex issues that are involved. What's really important is [unintelligible — audio glitch] dialogue not deteriorate into a situation where people are polarized. Hawaiian against Hawaiian, non-Hawaiian against uh against Hawaiian. And that's really important. That's going to take some leadership because it's not going to be easy, but I believe that

[0:26:02] Benjamin Cayetano: uh that uh the people in the Hawaiian community know that they can trust me. And uh, they know where my heart is. And so, I I believe sovereignty is an idea whose time has come, and it's important that we begin the process, the dialogue.

[0:33:59] Randall Roth: Ben Cayetano, to your questions, just call 955-8821. Again, that number is 955-8821 and neighbor islanders are invited to call collect. Walter from Manoa, you're on the air.

[0:34:12] Caller (Walter): Thank you. Oh, I just finished walking 11 days with the HGA. I'm very tired and this morning I went to ratify and I was very disappointed, but I'm going to go with the contract. I don't know what to do. I mean, you know, we were holding signs and walking 8 days and a lot of people walking with were very disappointed with the current administration. And we're thinking maybe Pat Sai can be something better than what we got. Can you tell me what you're going to do different with the unions as a governor?

[0:34:42] Benjamin Cayetano: Walter, first of all, I want to commend you and the HGEA strikers for um for a peaceful strike one, and for demonstrating uh to the strike uh that you are indeed very important to the state. My office was deluged with calls uh about uh services which were important to the transaction of business, for example, which were affected by by you folks. And now, maybe when people talk about the size of government, they understand that many of you are are needed people. Um, first of all, I don't think any Republican uh will uh will provide a better um a contract for government workers. Republicans believe in in in cutting the government, frankly, and uh they they

[0:34:42] Benjamin Cayetano: look at government as being a waste of time. Much of the negative attitude toward government workers comes from the Republican rhetoric, and I think that you and your fellow HGEA workers should should, you know, really think about that. What would I do? First of all, I would sit down with your labor leaders, and I would say this. I said, you know, and I felt this for a very long time, the across the board percentage agreements that have been reached over the years benefit the people at the high end. So, you have someone making $100,000 a year, and we have people like that uh at the university, for example, gets a 4% increase, uh, and therefore

[0:34:42] Benjamin Cayetano: gets $4,000 a year. Uh, a secretary making 20,000 or a clerk making 20,000 gets a 4% increase and gets 800 a year. I've never believed in that kind of negotiations, because what it what it has done is really uh cause a uh, a, a or increase the size of the gap between the people at the top and the the folks at the bottom. This strike, I think is a result of that kind of negotiation. And the one thing that I would do, and I've felt this for a very long time, when you go, when I send my team to the, uh, the collective bargaining table is to address the question of some parity with the

[0:34:42] Benjamin Cayetano: workers on the lower end. I mean, somebody making $100,000, uh, you know, a year has the same size stomach as someone who makes $20,000 a year. They can eat only maybe you know, a loaf of bread in a week. Just like a, you know, a university professor eats a loaf of bread in a week, a secretary eats a loaf of bread in a week. And the way that it's been going, it hasn't been fair, and I intend to bring some parity to the table. My entire life has been dedicated to helping working people. And, uh, you know, that's what I'm bringing to the table. Have the Republican, have the Republicans done anything to the union?

[0:34:42] Benjamin Cayetano: I remember, Reagan bust the, uh, uh, what you call those air controllers? And, you know, but I think they might do something different. Can you expand that? Well, you know, I think let's look at history, okay? And let's look at um let's look at the social programs, uh, or economic programs, or political changes. If you look at history of America, you're going to find that every major political, social, economic change that has been made, which has uplifted the lives of working people, has been the work of the Democratic Party. Social Security, Medicare, civil rights, Head Start, mandatory prepaid health, the Land reform in this state, A plus. All got a little D next to it.

[0:34:42] Benjamin Cayetano: When you look at the Republican side, you're going to find that in every confrontation, historically, where they they've had to choose between people and money, they choose money. And that's not Ben Cayetano's opinion, that's history. And I I would hope [unintelligible — audio glitch], you know, people would look to history, because history is a great teacher about the future.

[0:38:25] Randall Roth: Walter, thank you very much for your questions. We've got uh lights blinking galore here. We're going to move to Henry in Makalii. Henry, you're on the air.

[0:38:32] Caller (Henry): Hi, um, what are your First, hello.

[0:38:34] Benjamin Cayetano: Hello.

[0:38:35] Caller (Henry): And what are your top three environmental priorities, and how would you achieve them?

[0:38:41] Benjamin Cayetano: Well, first Henry, I I don't think that there's a need for uh additional laws. I think there's a need for uh enforcement of the environmental laws, and the one thing that I would do is to, uh, first of all, appoint uh people who are committed to uh enforcing those laws and support them, uh, fully, as governor. Uh, second, I believe that uh the public should uh be allowed to keep the government in check, and I I support for example, the concept of a, uh, what is called a private attorney general, where um, if the the state or the city does something that uh is wrong, um, where there's it has it has anything to do

[0:38:41] Benjamin Cayetano: with the environment or any other part of uh aspect of government, a private citizen can come forward, file a lawsuit and if they win and if they win, uh collect uh their costs and their legal fees. That is that'll be a great deterrent, I think, to government uh playing games with the environment or or any other service. Uh, second or third, it's really important that we have proper planning. And I want to, um, establish what I call an executive planning council where the governor and the four mayors meet on a regular basis, and talk about their respective visions for their the the state and their respective counties, and try to intermesh the two. What What

[0:38:41] Benjamin Cayetano: we have today is planning between city and state, which is done on an ad hoc basis. Somebody has a a bright idea for the county and the state and then they get together [unintelligible — audio glitch] [unintelligible — audio glitch] do something. That's not the way to approach uh the use of the kinds of finite resources that we have. We need to have the top level people, the governor and the four mayors, supported by people from the university, supported by advisory groups from from industry, for example, uh, taking into account uh what our resources are, taking into account what we'd they'd like to see Hawaii look like uh 20 years from now. And we need

[0:38:41] Benjamin Cayetano: to have that kind of planning, we don't have it today, and I intend, when I when I develop that executive planning council to be supported by advisory groups, which includes people from the environmental community.

[0:40:58] Randall Roth: Thank you, Henry.

[0:40:59] Benjamin Cayetano: Thank you.

[0:41:00] Randall Roth: In case you joined us late, you're listening to a special Price of Paradise radio show. I'm Randy Roth and my guest is gubernatorial candidate Ben Cayetano. Your calls are welcome, the number is 9558821. Kim from Manoa, you're on the air.

[0:41:14] Caller (Kim): Hello. Good morning, Mr. Cayetano.

[0:41:15] Benjamin Cayetano: Good morning, Kim.

[0:41:17] Caller (Kim): Um, I have a few questions. Today in in Hawaii, we have a very dependent economy. We import a lot of things. Our food, um, our petroleum, um, energy. All these things are very dependent on the mainland or from sources outside of Hawaii. And in these days, especially with sugar in decline, we have a great opportunity to develop uh, a self-sustaining agricultural economy and we have a a great opportunity to develop our own energy sources. Do you have any plans for this?

[0:41:54] Benjamin Cayetano: When I was a chair of the Energy and Transportation Committee for 4 years in the House, I was involved in developing plans for alternative energy, and I think those efforts must should it must continue and HNEI at the university should be supported. I also think, however, having been able to reflect on on my experience that we recognize that there are some things that we're we're going to have some difficulty in doing. when it when it comes to the use of alternative energy, Excuse me.

[0:42:32] Caller (Kim): Well, um, I'm sorry. I lost my okay. There are two things, energy and agriculture. I mean, it it's very disheartening when you go to the store and you're buying bananas from Panama or Costa Rica and and we're living in a subtropical climate. Where all these bananas and all this tropical fruit could be grown here. And a lot of fruit and and other products that are grown here are sold at mainland prices and it seems the inequity is quite galling.

[0:43:01] Benjamin Cayetano: Well, we need to certainly support our small farmers but, but, you know, to to be very candid with you, I sat down and I talked to Bobby Pfeiffer and John Crouch of Alexander and Baldwin lately and I asked, I said, you know, why, why can't A and B which believes that sugar has a has a still a great potential in this state, use some of its land to get into growing produce? And both Mr. Pfeiffer and Mr. Couch told me this, they said, you know Ben, if A and B set aside 5000 acres to grow tomatoes and lettuce and all of that, it could feed the entire state. And yet it wouldn't work, they felt,

[0:43:01] Benjamin Cayetano: because California, because California has has economies of scale, would be able to undercut A and B. So I think that the point that you make is a very good one, but I think that where that can happen is basically through small farmers. You know, and we need to support small farmers because they run into a lot of problems with diseases for example and blights and things like that and that's why the University of Hawaii's College of Tropical Agriculture is very very important. But I think that you're not going to find any big boys like A and B or, you know, some of the very very big agribusiness people coming in here [unintelligible — audio glitch]

[0:43:01] Benjamin Cayetano: you know, and actually engaging in large scale type of of growing of produce. You're not going to see that. It's it's going to have to be the small farmers and one of the big problems that small farmers have is their inability to get into a cooperative or some kind so that they can work and and survive by working within [unintelligible — audio glitch] dynamics of the marketplace. There's a bill going right through the legislature right now which may address that. I'm not I'm not sure that it will but it's an attempt to and these are some of the problems that we face but I'm supportive of small farmers because I think that like small business,

[0:43:01] Benjamin Cayetano: they are, you know, the heart and soul of Hawaii.

[0:43:15] Caller (Kim): I agree.

[0:43:16] Randall Roth: Kim, thank you very much for your call. We've got several people waiting. Ken, in Kahala, you've been waiting patiently, you're on the air.

[0:43:22] Caller (Ken): Good morning, gentlemen.

[0:43:24] Benjamin Cayetano: Good morning, Ken.

[0:43:25] Caller (Ken): Um, first of all, I want to thank both of you very very much, um, Professor Roth, you for having this program. I and and for you, Mr. Lieutenant Governor, for being on the radio. I think that it's fantastic that callers such as myself and those who have preceded me have an opportunity to have the kind of dialogue which we've been having this morning and I hope this can continue through the election. My question, um, education. Many people who have looked at the problem with our public school education, which I think most voters would agree is our biggest problem that needs to be corrected here in the state have concluded that one of the major corrections

[0:43:25] Caller (Ken): which must be made in order to achieve the kind of improved public education that we must have is for our school principals not to be members of unions. My question is this, Mr. Cayetano, do you agree number one that our principals should not be members of unions? If so, how would you propose that we change that situation? And if you do not agree with that proposition, why do do you not agree with that?

[0:46:39] Benjamin Cayetano: Ken, I'm a strong believer in collective bargaining. But but everything that I know about collective bargaining leads me to conclude that the process works only if there's balance. And I've told the principals and I've said this publicly many times and the first time I I gave a speech on it about principals being in a union and how I did not think they should be in a union. I was kind of called on the carpet by some of my friends in the HGEA and they they asked me, what do you mean, you know? And I I said exactly what I meant. I don't think that for the collective bargaining process to work that you can have

[0:46:39] Benjamin Cayetano: management be part of a union. Now, the the reality of the situation however is that no governor is going to be able to go to the legislature and pass a law to decertify these guys. Because that's what they said. Are you going to as governor are you going to go to the legislature to to to to seek a law to decertify us. That's not going to happen as a political reality. That legislature will not allow it to happen. But this is what I do because I I I do take some business-like approaches to the problem. I also happen to believe that our principals are underpaid. I once was shown by a paycheck by by a

[0:46:39] Benjamin Cayetano: principal who's a friend of mine. Uh, he'd he'd been school in a principal for 25 years and he's making about $50,000 a year. You know, anyway you cut it, that's being underpaid. Uh when I was practicing law we would hire associates straight out of law school and hadn't even passed the bar and we'd pay them $38,000 a year, you know, so this principal, these principals are underpaid. My proposal would be this and I've said this to the the Principals Union, I will put an offer on the table and the offer would go something like this: We have roughly about 600 principals and vice principals, and I would say to them: Listen, I have a a

[0:46:39] Benjamin Cayetano: economic package here, and if you're a principal we'll we'll propose to increase your pay by X amount of dollars. Say let's let's say 10 $15,000. And if you're a vice principal, we'll give you 50% of that, $7500 or $10,000 whatever the case may be. That's the offer. Your side, your your end of the bargain is that if you accept this offer, that you agree to decertify for at least a certain period of time, say 10 years. And let's see how it works. Because I think that over the years we've had the principals do their very best to to cooperate with [unintelligible — audio glitch] superintendent. On the other hand, I believe the Superintendent of Education

[0:46:39] Benjamin Cayetano: should be allowed to basically select his or her own team. Otherwise the education system will suffer. However, you can't just get these folks out, you know, because you want to, I think you need to sit down and bargain with them and that's the way I would approach it. Now, what if they said no? They said, Well, no, we we rather have the union and you know we don't think your your economic offer is is uh is an offer. Well, then, I you know, I would have to work within the system. Because I do not think that the blood that will be let if a governor goes to the legislature to try and get these folks

[0:46:39] Benjamin Cayetano: decertified decertified will be worth the effort. It will only hurt the kids in the long run.

[0:50:02] Randall Roth: Thank you, Ken, for both your question and your comments. I'm here with Ben Cayetano, a candidate for governor who wants to answer your questions. Just call 9558821. Todd from Makiki, you're on the air.

[0:50:06] Caller (Todd): Uh, thank you. Good morning, Mr. Lieutenant Governor. Good morning, Todd. I have a quick question. Earlier you spoke of your frustration with the cost of prison sell increases or to construct new prison. Right. And I was, I was thinking in terms of a means to alleviate part of the problem of our overcrowding in our prisons, is is what's your openness to the possible decriminalization of such drugs as say marijuana?

[0:50:26] Benjamin Cayetano: I'm not open at all to decriminalizing marijuana. I do feel this this way though, I I I've seen, uh, I was in in college and during the 60s, you know, and I remember, uh, you know, youngsters in Virginia being sentenced to 30 years in jail because they happened to have a joint in their possession. Since then you we find that the the laws dealing with marijuana have, uh, you know, become much more reasonable. Uh, I'm not for decriminalizing, uh, uh, the law marijuana usage, okay, except in for medical reasons, if the doctors believe that it should be used then then I'm open to that. However, we can lighten the load in the prisons by coming

[0:50:26] Benjamin Cayetano: up with some enlightened alternatives. For example, I have quite a few supporters who who are probation officers, who are, uh, penalogists, who have experience [unintelligible — audio glitch] degrees in that. And they tell me that other enlightened states have, uh, embarked on programs which, uh, where you use halfway houses where [unintelligible — audio glitch] don't keep people in jail as long as we do. We've got some of the longest sentences in the country, you know? You keep the people who are going to hurt people in jail. Now, this sounds like a fairly uh simple way to approach the problem, I you know, they've got technology for example that can help can help out. For example,

[0:50:26] Benjamin Cayetano: they they have these electronic bracelets which allow you to keep track of uh uh people who are on parole or probation. Uh but the problem and the reason why I think you should vote for me for governor is the problem is that, while all the gubernatorial candidates understand that this is one way to cut the cost of prison, most don't want to take the risk. Right. Michael Dukakis took the risk in Massachusetts. He had a Massachusetts had a very enlightened furlough program but then a guy named Willie Horton screwed it up for him. Yeah, it came back to bite him. Yeah, it came back to bite him. And many politicians remember that example. I'm one

[0:50:26] Benjamin Cayetano: I'm one politician who is willing to take those kinds of risk, because first of all, I'm not going to be in politics forever. Uh and I want to one day, when I when I leave politics, to become a private citizen, I want to see the government operate efficiently and in an enlightened manner. And I'm but I'm willing to take those kinds of risks, because I think it's absolutely absolutely essential that we do these kinds of things, so that we can take the money that's saved and use it in upfront on the preventive side. Mhm. One of the problems with focusing on prevention for elected officials is that there is no short-term result that you can

[0:50:26] Benjamin Cayetano: point to. You know, you understand what I mean by saying, yeah. Uh if you invest upfront, you you probably will never know how well the investment went, uh during your political lifetime, because by the time, you know, uh the results come about, you know, you you would have been out of office. Right. And that's not, uh uh always something that's very appealing to, uh politicians who make decisions. They want to, they know that the American public is like the American stockholder. They want to see, uh, uh, bottom line results Yeah, instant gratification. Right. Instant, that's the term.

[0:53:38] Randall Roth: Thank you, Todd, for your question.

[0:53:39] Caller (Todd): Okay, well thank you for answering it.

[0:53:41] Benjamin Cayetano: Sure. Thank you.

[0:53:42] Randall Roth: In case you joined us late, you're listening to a special Price of Paradise radio show. I'm Randy Roth and my guest is gubernatorial candidate Ben Cayetano. Your calls are welcome, and the number is 9558821. Well, Bob from Manoa earlier asked this question: What is your position on gun control?

[0:54:01] Benjamin Cayetano: Bob, you know, I, um, I happen to be a person who, uh, has done some shooting. I, for example, I, um, I, uh, I own a couple of handguns and I was a, uh, part of a shooting, um, organization that we used to go down to the range and shoot. Most of the people that I met, in fact, I met doctors, lawyers, people who are very respectable, who enjoy the activity. These are not people who are Clint Eastwood types. These are regular people, okay? Uh, I think that the gun owners of this state would all be willing to submit to stricter gun control. I think what they're concerned about is the move, especially by the

[0:54:01] Benjamin Cayetano: State Senate to ban handguns. I think that automatic weapons, assault weapons, and those kind of things, should be, uh, should be, uh, banned. But, uh, I, I, I believe that, uh, uh, gun control, while it, while, you know, while it should be strict, uh, should not result in people not being allowed to enjoy a sport which has been part of the American heritage for a very, very long time. And that is decent people going out with their families even and going to the range and shooting, just for the just for enjoyment. And that happens a lot.

[0:55:17] Randall Roth: Our phone lines are open. The number is 9558821, and neighbor Islanders are invited to call collect. Uh, Akiva from Kailua asks this question: What is your position on same-sex marriage?

[0:55:33] Benjamin Cayetano: I, this is a tough one, Akiva, but, but I believe, uh, that there is a large segment of our community out there, namely, the the gay community, which uh faces some real problems in terms of the the legal consequences of their relationships with people. Uh, gay people, in my opinion, should be allowed to uh, you know, pass on uh their, uh, their assets to to partners. Uh, they should be allowed to have their partners uh uh uh included under, um, healthcare programs, for example. Now, however, when it comes to marriage, I also believe that the government should begin to reflect and review the reasons why government is in the business of sanctioning marriage. This has

[0:55:33] Benjamin Cayetano: religious roots. And I'm, I think it's time that we we we we begin to consider whether we should leave the sanctioning of marriage to the religious organizations. In other words, have the churches uh sanction marriage, whatever kind of church that they may be. The government maybe should be looking at establishing what has been called domestic partnerships, which basically sets a sets forth the rights and obligations of people who decide to enter into these kinds of partnerships, whether they be heterosexual or homosexual. Uh, we need to be very enlightening about this. We need to understand that there are people who have lived their their lives, you know, in closets for a very, very long time because

[0:55:33] Benjamin Cayetano: the heterosexual community has not been very understanding and we need to, you know, to to change the society so that we can treat these folks as equals as provided by the Constitution of the United States.

[0:57:24] Caller (Garrett): I'm here with Ben Cayetano, a candidate for governor who wants to answer your questions. Just call 955-8821. Well, for the first time in quite a while, we're down to only one caller. We have Garrett from Honolulu. Garrett, you're on the air. Aloha. Aloha. Ben, um I live on a sailboat at the Ala Wai Boat Harbor. And uh there's been a lot of things written that you are anti-boat and statements, you know, that you said there were blankety blank rich haulies down there and so on and so. And I kind of um in my heart of heart would love to have you say that you aren't anti-boat. But, as a uh boat owner, we just had

[0:57:24] Caller (Garrett): our slip fees raised 24% and there was no input from us. We just got the bill for 24%. So, you know, I'd like you to kind of address uh what your views are about boating, about the harbors, about the um harbors, not the harbor association, but the land and natural resources which now is taking people off the beaches and um just basically uh had honest, as I see it, out of control. And so I'd like to see hear what you have to say about the Department of Land and Natural Resources and the boating community in the state of Hawaii.

[0:58:35] Benjamin Cayetano: So really another compound question, but but hey, it's okay. Um, let me first of all, speak about the boating community. You know, uh, is it Bob? Was it Bob? Garrett, I'm sorry. Yeah. You know Garrett, um there's been uh a lot of talk because of uh a controversy that I was involved in uh maybe 20 years ago when I was a freshman in the State House about about the things that I was supposed to have said about voters. You know and I and I keep on telling the people who say [unintelligible — audio glitch] I who attribute these things to me, I said you you tell me when, where and you know, I have made

[0:58:35] Benjamin Cayetano: these kind of statements because these statements were really malicious kind of statements. I never made those statements and I hope that you go back to the boarding community and and tell them.

[0:59:22] Caller (Garrett): That's very refreshing to hear.

[0:59:24] Benjamin Cayetano: Well, that while I may have had a disagreement with them at that particular time, you know, I never, I I I have been always, you know, a supporter of of the civil rights of everyone and I never

[0:59:35] Caller (Garrett): Well, see, the problem is like uh we went from being controlled by the uh Department of uh Transportation to the Department of Land and Natural Resources. And when that happened, all of a sudden like uh, the rules change from, you know, like 40 pages to 400 pages and and the the fees, like I said, went up 24% and the the way we're treated is just um is, is, I find disgraceful and as a result, the laws, the pot excuse me, not laws, the policy is written that you can't anchor anywhere in the state of Hawaii. You can't live in a boat in anywhere in the state of Hawaii. And we have no input. And it

[0:59:35] Caller (Garrett): seems to me that the legislators and those people, they don't really care. They have their own agendas. And and meanwhile, we have no boating industry, we have no boat building industry, they have no charter industry and here we're the only island state.

[1:00:28] Benjamin Cayetano: Well, you know, let me say that you should have input because it it it directly affects your lives and I and I'm not sure what the process is.

[1:00:34] Caller (Garrett): Well, no, we go to the fair hearings and uh, you know, the uh we make our statements and then the uh 10 days later it has gone to the Lieutenant Governor and it becomes law. The policy becomes law.

[1:01:09] Benjamin Cayetano: Garrett, I'll tell you what, we're running low on time and I've got so many people waiting. Uh, I I invite you to to stay on the line or maybe call back in 10 minutes and I'll ask Lieutenant Governor Cayetano just to stick around to answer your questions. Well, I'll definitely do that. Garrett, [unintelligible — audio glitch] invite you to to either, uh, you know, write to me or call my office to make an appointment. Bring some of your boating friends uh, up and I I'd be willing to sit down and talk to them. First of all, because uh not long ago, you know, I got a kind of a nasty letter from a boater, you

[1:01:09] Benjamin Cayetano: know, attributing all kind of things to me, including the passage of the these rules and regulations that I knew nothing about.

[1:01:43] Caller (Garrett): You know, maybe they could invite you out on a boat. You know, there there's a lot of tension in a campaign. This could be fun. No, you know what, [unintelligible — audio glitch] two times that I've been out to see, I got seasick both times.

[1:01:52] Benjamin Cayetano: Hey, I'll take you on my boat. You wouldn't get seasick. Okay. Okay, hey, thank you, Bear. Sure. Thanks, Garrett. We have Jeff from Kani Ohe. Jeff, you're on the air.

[1:02:00] Caller (Jeff): Yeah. Hi, thank you. We have a boat too, but we won't get into that one. Um, actually, I was calling a few years ago. I took my dog through the the uh quarantine here, and I know you're a dog owner as well or Sure. have been. And uh I've been one of the people working the last several years to try to change the quarantine laws here. Uh, it's been frustrating for all of us, although we've had some movement and many of the legislative members have, um, changed their positions and and have been very supportive. It's been frustrating trying to get the changes which would essentially be proper properly vaccinated animals should be able to come

[1:02:00] Caller (Jeff): to to the state without, um, going through the quarantine in an arcane system anyway.

[1:02:42] Benjamin Cayetano: I agree with you.

[1:02:42] Caller (Jeff): But the uh it was very frustrating this last go round, uh last year in the legislature, not this current um time, when the expert committee on rabies from the World Health Organization had sent a proposed system lowering it from four months down to one month. Uh there were some members who thought that we could do with no quarantine at all as long as we had proper vaccinations, but at least uh as a group, they agreed that the one month uh proposal was equally workable to what we have now. And the differences would be would require vaccinations coming in, check the blood while they're here, make sure that they they have the proper vaccination, uh I

[1:02:42] Caller (Jeff): should say that the vaccination was working properly, and then let them out at the end of the one month. If the uh if the titer or the buildup of protection was not there, make them stay as long as it took to get that. Um we thought that was an extremely reasonable position, but unfortunately, it was killed in the legislature uh by Terence Tom and a few of the members and um that and the other frustrating thing was when Doctor Lewis said that he felt that no matter what the the expert committee of Rabies said, that we would never change our system here. It was like, gee, you know, it seems awfully close minded. It sure

[1:02:42] Caller (Jeff): is.

[1:03:59] Benjamin Cayetano: Well, you know, let me say that uh I I've been on your side. Uh I um I've had um two dogs come in. Uh when I moved back from Los Angeles, uh we brought with us a German Shepherd, and um uh then later or a couple years