Hawaii's International Role
Price of Paradise · Hawaii Public Radio · aired 1994-10-02
Guests: David McClain (Professor, University of Hawaii College of Business); Joyce Tsunoda (Vice President for International Programs, University of Hawaii)
Duration: 1:06:38

[00:00:00] Randall Roth: Hawaii has been in the center of the Pacific or in the middle of nowhere. My guest today will answer that question and others as we discuss Hawaii's international role. David McClain is the Henry A. Walker Jr., Professor of Business Enterprise at the University of Hawaii. Previously, he headed the international operations of an economics consulting firm, directed executive programs in Japan, and has been a visiting scholar at several universities in Tokyo, as well as at MIT. His PhD is from MIT, but I won't hold that against him since his undergraduate degree is from the University of Kansas. Joyce Tsunoda is Senior Vice President of the University of Hawaii.
[00:00:38] Randall Roth: As such, she is in charge of all international programs for the entire university system and also heads up the eight campus community college system at the University of Hawaii. She was born and raised in Japan, and her degrees are in chemistry and biochemistry. David, Joyce, good morning.
[00:00:55] David McClain: Good morning, Randy.
[00:00:57] Randall Roth: David, I'm wondering if you could start this off by telling us what in the world do we mean when we say Hawaii's international role?
[00:01:04] David McClain: Well, I think what we mean is a role which can, uh, build on our our core competence in tourism and also, uh, lead to a higher quality of life for our citizens. Uh, I think, uh, whenever people around the world think of issues involving trade, investment, uh, whenever they think of government activity or even, uh, a social activities involving our part of the world, the Asia Pacific part, we'd like them to think of Hawaii.
[00:01:26] Randall Roth: So you're thinking of us being right in the middle of the action, right?
[00:01:29] David McClain: Well, you know, I I was thinking about that, uh, that image, and it seems like to me almost that we're on we're on the, uh, the edge of two grand canyons, one relating to Asia Pacific and one relating to North America. We're not exactly right in the middle of the action, but we're in in a an extraordinary, uh, position to take advantage of the action that's going on on both sides of the Pacific.
[00:01:48] Randall Roth: Joyce, what does Hawaii's international role mean to you?
[00:01:51] Joyce Tsunoda: To me, uh, the role of Hawaii in uh Hawaii's international role has a lot to do with our people. The other one one side of the coin of international education is education itself, but the other important part is multiculturalism. And Hawaii is a natural setting for living and experiencing international.
[00:02:14] Randall Roth: Hmm. So it's not the location as such, it's the people of Hawaii.
[00:02:16] Joyce Tsunoda: The people, most definitely.
[00:02:18] Randall Roth: So the state of Kansas could be the center of international activity if it had our people.
[00:02:23] Joyce Tsunoda: If we had, uh, the people that we have here, not just with our multicultural background with, but with the kind of attitude that we have.
[00:02:30] Randall Roth: Oh, interesting. Well, what is the goal? You know, when we talk about wanting to be more of a center of international activity, how would we measure whether or not that had been accomplished, David?
[00:02:40] David McClain: I think we'd measure it by, Randy, by whether or not we had really opened up to external forces and and and had embraced them fully. Uh, the whole point of of doing this of course, is to raise the quality of life and the standard of living of our citizens. Um, it's just not really feasible for Hawaii to be what we call an economics and autarky, something that shuts itself off completely from anything else. Uh, in today's, uh, modern environment with all the communications, telecommunications we have, the interaction of people, it's just not feasible to be shut off.
[00:03:07] David McClain: So what we have to do is reach out and embrace the forces of change that are taking place around the world and take advantage of them, uh, for our purposes.
[00:03:14] Randall Roth: And when you say take advantage of them, are we talking about jobs, high paying jobs, or something else that relates to the quality of our life?
[00:03:21] David McClain: Well, jobs are certainly a key ingredient here. If we don't take advantage of these forces, they will pass us by and then the standard of living here will decline and of course that means the number of jobs will decline.
[00:03:30] Randall Roth: Mhm. Joyce, you're with the university and you're in charge of of their international programs. Uh, what's your goal?
[00:03:37] Joyce Tsunoda: My goal, and I hope that's the goal of the entire university system is first of all, I like to have an learning environment for our university where our students, you know, we have 52,000 students across the 10 campus system. really feel that they're matriculating at an university system where international education is just part and parcel of the entire their total learning environment.
[00:04:04] Randall Roth: And why do we want to do that?
[00:04:06] Joyce Tsunoda: We live we live in a global society as the popular saying goes and I think whether a student is studying to become a PhD or an auto mechanic, it is absolutely critical that that student understands what's going on in the bigger world around him or her.
[00:04:22] Randall Roth: And does it have to do with with jobs here in Hawaii or preparing that person to be productive and and earn a living no matter where they settle?
[00:04:30] Joyce Tsunoda: Both.
[00:04:31] Randall Roth: Both. Oh, wonderful answer. In case you joined us late, this is the Price of Paradise Radio Show. Today's topic is Hawaii's international role and with me in the studio to discuss it are UH Vice President Joyce Tsunoda and UH Professor of Business Enterprise, David McClain. We're live and phone lines are open, just call 955-8821. Neighbor Islanders are invited to call collect. The number again, 955-8821. Well, if we were tallying up everything that exists today that makes us an international center, David, what would be at the top of the list or what would be a handful of the items toward the top of the list?
[00:05:09] David McClain: Well, certainly the university would be right at the top of the list because this is a a university which has unparalleled expertise in the Asia Pacific region. Uh, in addition to that, we'd cite the East West Center, a much smaller unit, but a much more much more focused unit. Um, we'd also cite the Pacific Basin Economic Council. And I think in in state government, we'd cite the work of the Governor's Office of International Relations, which has played a a leading role in getting, um, here's another acronym coming at you, the APEC process going in Hawaii.
[00:05:36] David McClain: Uh, APEC stands for Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation Forum. Uh, it's related to the meetings the President Clinton held in um Seattle on Blake Island last November. There'll be more meetings in Jakarta this this November, and uh in this context, the state's office of international relations has had uh meetings of APEC finance ministers, APEC education ministers and others uh taking place here in Hawaii. And it's really helped to put us on the map in, uh, in this region.
[00:06:01] Randall Roth: I know very little about APEC, but I vaguely recall that there was some concern locally that those meetings weren't held here.
[00:06:09] David McClain: Well, uh, it's certainly the case that it would have been nice to have the Blake Island meetings held on uh one of the islands here in Hawaii, no question about that. The Secretariat of APEC is in Singapore, and that's already up and running as of the beginning of last year. Uh, this is an initiative that's about five years old. Um, I my sense is frankly that we'll get our share of meetings because we're in a perfect position. Uh, the people in the Department of State and the National Security Council that I talk to say that they can get a lot more done if they meet in Hawaii than if they meet on the US mainland.
[00:06:37] David McClain: Uh, and of course from, uh, the perspective of the other countries in APEC, they like to come to Hawaii too, because it's so culturally comfortable. It really builds on what Joyce was saying about our our multicultural expertise.
[00:06:47] Randall Roth: One of the items that David just listed in describing what's being done right now, in fact, at the top of his list Joyce, and I noticed you were smiling, was the University of Hawaii. What are some of the things that you're proudest of at the University of Hawaii that you think are working?
[00:07:02] Joyce Tsunoda: Well, you as you know, University of Hawaii, when we talk about it, we're talking about all 10 campuses. So, starting with our original, the research campus of Manoa, as David said, I think we have the richest resource in terms of talents and and interest in international education. including those, uh, experiences and contacts that our faculty have. But more importantly, our university is very much part of this community. And as such, what we do, formally and informally, for example, David was very, very modest but, uh, talking about APEC, you know, he was instrumental in bringing over to Hawaii along with the East-West Center's uh Mike Oksenberg, one very important part of APEC's initiative here to Hawaii.
[00:07:54] Joyce Tsunoda: And this is the APEC Study Center project, I think David can describe much better than I can. But university becoming more active in partnership with the community and with other agencies like East-West Center, can make Hawaii itself, the whole state of Hawaii, an international learning center. It's a broader learning center than just the campus itself.
[00:08:17] Randall Roth: Mhm. You know, last week a a caller made a a a very good point that the guests in the studio didn't seem to be particularly balanced and I'm listening to you talk about the University of Hawaii and I'm thinking, gee, I work there and David works there, this probably sounds like a a commercial. Let me invite those folks who are listening to this show who are disappointed in what the university is doing or isn't doing, please call up and and hold our feet to the fire. We really do want to have a balanced conversation and it may be that your participation is necessary in order to accomplish that.
[00:08:46] Randall Roth: Well, Joyce, a moment ago you were mentioning partnerships. The university and I believe you mentioned the East-West Center. What does that mean a partnership? What are some of the things that are being done or could be done in partnership that that would be uh worthwhile as we're trying to develop ourselves as an international center?
[00:09:02] Joyce Tsunoda: Okay, let me give you a good example of a partnership we have that I think helps our young people. Um, Kamehameha Schools, for example, is a rich community resource. People don't think about Kamehameha Schools necessarily as an resource for international education, but it really is. And the last summer, the University of Hawaii, the Kamehameha schools, and several non-profit organizations got together and helped to raise funds to send some of our native Hawaiian students on an learning study tour to the various Pacific islands. And we had 40 students and seven faculty members go go, and for many of them this was the very, very first trip away from Hawaii.
[00:09:51] Joyce Tsunoda: And they had an opportunity to see what other Pacific islands were like, what what their cultures, how they related to Hawaii, or how they differed, and for for some of them they discovered their roots. And uh to me, you know, University of Hawaii by itself could not have done that. It took the cooperation and support of Kamehameha Schools and other agencies. And so these are the kind of partnerships that we really want to develop so that our students have an opportunity.
[00:10:22] Randall Roth: Uh, David, I know you're working on something that has to do with uh language ability here in Hawaii, or or translation uh resources. Can you tell me a little bit more about that and are we strong now in the area or is that an area where we need to to get stronger if we're going to be a center for international activities?
[00:10:38] David McClain: Well, I think we are definitely strong. We have, uh, one of the three national centers for foreign languages, um, here at the University of Hawaii. But in addition to that, we, uh, have, in fact, engaged in a project just completed with the Office of International Relations to, um, uh, enhance, uh, the translation and interpretation capabilities here. We held a conference just recently on that on that topic, and I think it's an area where we'll we'll need to steadily improve because if we're going to get visitors from Russia, uh, from Central Europe, uh, from all over the world, we're going to have to have the resources for translation here.
[00:11:11] David McClain: And that's always an area that needs a lot of attention, but it fortunately, I think it it's an area that is getting attention, and I think, uh, we're well on the way to bolstering our capability in that area.
[00:11:21] Randall Roth: Joyce, is is the university specifically involved in in that sort of thing, developing Hawaii as as a translation center?
[00:11:29] Joyce Tsunoda: We have in the uh College of Linguistics, a very, very um strong program in translation and translate and training translators and interpreters. And so, yes, that's part of our contributions to the community.
[00:11:46] Randall Roth: All right. Well, David, you've mentioned several times the Office of International Relations, and I think sometimes it's referred to as OIR. What is that and how's it doing?
[00:11:57] David McClain: Well, it's an office that's, uh, attached to to the Governor's Office, and, uh, it's um, uh, been in, in operation, I guess, pretty much since I came to Hawaii, which is three or four years ago, not much longer than that, I think. Um, and its intention is to, uh, if if I could sort of paraphrase it, is to serve as sort of the Department of State, uh, for the university or for the, uh, the State of Hawaii. Um, some people have questioned whether we really need a Department of State, after all we are a state, we're not a a federal government, but I would argue that Hawaii is really special.
[00:12:24] David McClain: We have so many international visitors coming our way and it's very important to treat them well, um, and to treat them with a degree of sophistication that they come to expect when they visit other countries. And I think the, uh, the Governor's Office of International Relations under its, the leadership of Brenda Foster, has, has done that really quite well.
[00:12:43] Randall Roth: My understanding is that that's scheduled to go out of existence next year unless something happens, is that right?
[00:12:49] David McClain: I believe that's right. There's a sunset law in place, and actually that's a good thing for a lot of our government activities. We ought to have more sunset laws, I think, because what it does is it makes us take a look at them and see whether they're working, uh, well and effectively. And, uh, so my sense is that yes, yes you're right, that's the case. But honestly, I think the office has performed well and I would hope that, uh, in whatever administration succeeds, the administration that we have, something along the lines of the Office of International Relations.
[00:13:14] Randall Roth: Something else that's been mentioned by both of you, uh, is the East-West Center. And, uh, we had Mike Oksenberg on the show a few months ago and and he talked about what's going on at the center. I think sometimes there's confusion in people's mind, certainly in my mind from time to time, I get confused about the East-West Center on the one hand and the university on the other hand. Is that a totally separate institution that happens to be located on the Manoa campus or is there some sort of overlap, Joyce?
[00:13:42] Joyce Tsunoda: Uh, you know, if you look at the history of the East-West Center, and I hate to use this, um, analogy, but the East-West Center was really created out of the ribs of the University of Hawaii. It was this the the back back in the 1960s or 50s, I I just forgot the exact date, that that it was the, uh, enthusiasm of several University of Hawaii faculty that actually created the East-West Center.
[00:14:09] Joyce Tsunoda: Since then we have gone, become two separate organizations, but I think that we there is a potential, great potential for us to function as a strong partner so that the resources of both institutions can be brought to bear in making Hawaii an vibrant international center.
[00:14:27] Randall Roth: David, any any thoughts on the East-West Center to add to Joyce's?
[00:14:30] David McClain: Well, I would just say that that we at the College of Business, um, and now at the university more broadly, have worked very closely with Mike and and his colleagues at the East-West Center. Um, this is a a highly concentrated and and very effective, uh, uh, collection of resources on the Asia Pacific region. It has a superb alumni network, contacts throughout the region. Um, and I know when we applied to become um a center for international business, a designation from our US Department of Education, we were selected as one of the first five in the country several years ago.
[00:15:00] David McClain: And an important dimension of that selection was the fact that the East-West Center was located at the University of Hawaii. And as Joyce mentioned before, we've recently uh worked with the East-West Center under Mike's leadership to, uh, establish an APEC study center here at the University of Hawaii and and our partnership, our joint membership in this study center consortium has led to us being designated the secretariat for the consortium for the first two years. So it's a it's an important asset for the state, and it's important an important partner for the university, no question.
[00:15:29] Randall Roth: In case you joined us late, today's topic has to do with Hawaii's potential as a center for international activity. My guests are well positioned to tell us what already is happening, and perhaps more importantly, to share their visions for bigger and better things to come down the road. Dave McClain is an internationally recognized economist and Joyce Tsunoda is a vice president at the University of Hawaii. Your calls are welcome, the number is 955-8821. And again, I will tell you that we all work at the University of Hawaii and I'm real anxious to hear from any folks out there who would uh like to hold our feet to the proverbial fire. That number again, 955-8821.
[00:16:08] Randall Roth: David, another thing you mentioned a little bit ago was uh the Pacific something or other that I believe is called uh PBEC or something like that?
[00:16:15] David McClain: Yeah, PBEC, PBEC. It's the Pacific Basin Economic Council. Um, uh, PBEC is the oldest business organization in the Pacific. It was established in 1967, uh, at the time to bring uh Japan's business community more closely uh in into the business community circles of North America. Since then, it's grown to be an organization which has uh over 15 members, um, and its international, uh, headquarters are located here in Honolulu. They moved here three years ago, we were involved in a competition, uh, with, uh, uh, Los Angeles and and San Francisco, which wanted to keep the headquarters, and it's now it's now here.
[00:16:51] David McClain: Um, it's got a about a thousand companies uh throughout the the region that are members, the largest companies in Asia. And increasingly it is the voice of business in the Pacific region. Uh, so it's a major asset for Hawaii to have PBEC here and it's it can help us do one thing that I think is hard for Hawaii because something like 90 to 94% of our businesses are small businesses. And small businesses typically have a difficult time uh exporting and reaching out to uh geographically into, uh, uh over long distances. I think PBEC can really provide an avenue for that.
[00:17:21] David McClain: There's already a sizable uh local Hawaii PBEC group that's involved with the uh International Director General's office here, and I think that's a real asset for the state. Um, it it will bring more meetings here, it will bring more attention here. As that happens, it will bring a more high quality tourism here. Um, I think it's a win-win-win situation.
[00:17:40] Randall Roth: So when we talk about uh Hawaii's international role, that's related to tourism, there's overlap. Tell me how those two relax relate to one another.
[00:17:48] David McClain: Well, no question, and in fact uh the way they relate is if you get a lot of people coming here for business purposes or for government meeting purposes, then those same people uh will tend to come here for recreational purposes and other people will notice that these people are coming here uh for recreational purposes and then they themselves will want to come here. For example, uh Bill Gates of Microsoft uh uh held his wedding on the island of Lanai not too long ago and you can be sure now that every CEO of the top 500 corporations in Hawaii will knows about Lanai and would love to come and spend some time there.
[00:18:23] David McClain: Um, it's it's just a matter of reputation and association and uh it all it does is it moves Hawaii's uh tourism base upmarket, a direction which I think we all wanted to want to see it go because if we move upmarket, we can keep the numbers relatively stable, and at the same time uh add a more high quality jobs and and a higher standard of living for our citizens.
[00:18:43] Randall Roth: Joyce, any thoughts on that?
[00:18:44] Joyce Tsunoda: Well, I was just thinking as David was talking that you know, you've heard the word ecotourism.
[00:18:49] Randall Roth: You bet.
[00:18:50] Joyce Tsunoda: Well, I think what we would like to provide here uh through the efforts of University of Hawaii East-West Center, is edutourism. we want to
[00:19:00] Speaker 1: I think that's a term that should be really well-developed in practice.
[00:19:04] David McClain: And that's education-tourism. Tourism, and I think we already have that, you know. For example, every summer for the past four years now, the East-West Center and our university have cooperated to bring together about 40 college faculty members from across the country, two-year faculty, as well as four-year faculty members, to come here to Hawaii for a three-week intensive training on Asia-Pacific, and how to incorporate the Asia-Pacific perspectives into their curriculum. And this is in a project that initially was supported primarily out of East-West Center funds, but it has become so popular that we have been able to get various federal funds to do it. And when the people come here, they bring their kids, they bring their husbands, and some of them, it's the first time, but they say they'll come back again. And so this is just a nice way for people to realize that Hawaii is a place where you come not just for fun and sun, but for some serious learning, plus fun and sun. Don't you think so, David?
[00:20:08] David McClain: I think it's a great idea, and it's, and it's frankly, a better alternative than ecotourism is. People who've penciled out ecotourism in Australia tell me that, while it's a, it's a great sounding idea, it just doesn't have the volume. There's just aren't enough people to come to make the companies that enter the, enter the industry want to stay in the industry. Edutourism on the other hand, um, has a nice spin to it because we already have the infrastructure and the resources established here. It's a great services export for Hawaii and for the, uh, for the country.
[00:20:33] David McClain: Did we just establish that term, or is that, uh? I I give all credit to Joyce on that one. Joyce, you you're the mother now of that particular-
[00:20:40] Speaker 2: Mother of Edutourism. Uh, we have several callers on the line. First, Alice from Honolulu. Alice, you're on the air.
[00:20:46] Speaker 3: Yes. I, I was listening very intently to your program, and I was wondering, you know, the Hawaiians are trying to be a separate nation. How would that, uh, affect the international um affairs that you're talking about? And also, as I live many years in Australia, what part are they playing in it?
[00:21:04] David McClain: Great question, David MacLean. Well, you know, Randy, I recently posed just Alice's question to a class of executive MBA students at the University of Hawaii. We were discussing the, the, the sovereignty movement, and, um, I said, what do you think that will do to the competitive advantage of Hawaii as a location? And I was really interested in the response. Almost to a person, and we did have a, a number of people of Hawaiian ancestry in the group. Almost to a person they said, this is a great plus for the state. The, the sovereignty movement is a great plus for a state, for the state because it will more firmly establish, um, the identity of the Hawaiian people, and more firmly establish the identity of, of Hawaii as something, as a place that is really unique in the world. Uh, I was really struck by that, that everybody that, uh, that was in my executive MBA class viewed this very much as a, uh, a very positive development for the state. There might be some, some transitional challenges, no question. What kind of an organization do we have? I know we're very much in, in the middle of discussing all that. But in the long run, this is a great thing. Joyce, any thoughts on that?
[00:22:02] Speaker 1: Well, Alice, you, you mentioned Australia. Australia is very much part of our Pacific community, and I think the Hawaii state, as well as University of Hawaii, are beginning to work very, very closely with Australia to promote joint activities. Our, um, various campuses of the University of Hawaii have now established a sister school relationship with several colleges and universities in Australia. And I had just been there to formalize part of our sister school relationship, and you know what I discovered? Men, the people of Australia have what we are beginning to lose here, this very, very, um, warm feeling of aloha, that, that's Australian style, the people were so kind and so courteous. And I thought, wow, I know this is what we used to have in Hawaii. And here I'm now a tourist. The shoe was on the other foot, and it was so pleasant to be welcomed the way I was.
[00:23:08] Speaker 3: Yes, I think that is part of it. Thank you so much. Bye, bye.
[00:23:12] David McClain: Thank you, Alice. David, do you have another comment?
[00:23:13] David McClain: Well, just about, uh, Australia, I recently visited, uh, that country as well. First time I had been there in about five years. And I was really impressed at how the Australians had turned around their attitude toward the Asia-Pacific region. Their mindset is now, our destiny is totally connected to Asia. Um, whatever, they've had of course problems in the past with the white-only policy and that sort of thing. They've gone well beyond that. They've totally opened up their educational environment to connecting their educational system with Asia. Their business environment says, let's do it, let's, let's participate in Asia's prosperity in a responsible way. Um, I was really impressed and I honestly think, as Joyce has suggested in, in, in, in her case, in the educational area, in the business area as well, we can learn a quite a bit from Australia as far as opening up to Asia.
[00:23:55] Speaker 2: Joyce? And the other thing I noted too, David, you and I are Rotarians. And you know when, um, the international meeting was going to be held in Australia, well, those Australian Rotarians were very active individually and collectively promoting Australia, they were even, they had uh agents from their government helping to come to Hawaii and to other parts of the United States and signing them up and helping with a visa process.
[00:24:21] David McClain: You know, it's interesting sitting here listening to this. I hadn't really thought about it in these terms. I gave a talk to the and I think it was called the Australian-American Chamber of Commerce or something like that the other day. And it was an especially lively group with great questions. Um, this sounds now like a commercial for, uh, for Australia, huh? Didn't intend to be that one. We have a couple more callers waiting. David on the Big Island, you've been very patient. Good morning.
[00:24:43] David McClain: Yes, good morning. Um, when when you talk about Hawaii being coming an international center, I I'm a little bit concerned that you're, you're talking about bringing foreign investment in, and, uh, I, I live here on the Big Island so I can only comment on what's happening here. But the economy of the Big Island is basically the economy of a third-world country. All of our means of generating wealth are owned by foreigners. They produce jobs for us, but all the profits leave the island. And and until the people on this island at least, uh, start becoming entrepreneurs and start owning the means of generating wealth, we're always going to stay poor. Uh, as an example, right now, the county has about 4500 acres that they acquired, Sugar Land, and they want to uh reforest it. But instead of of doing it ourselves, we're going to get a foreign firm to come in and plant it and have us, they'll become our landlords as it were, they'll, they'll do the reforesting. We'll do the work for $5 an hour, but when the trees are harvested, the profits leave the island.
[00:25:49] David McClain: David on the Big Island, hold on. I want to ask David here in the studio about this because as I was listening to that David in the studio, I was, uh, thinking of some things you wrote in the First Price of Paradise book, where you were comparing Hawaii and you said there were some uncomfortable comparisons between Hawaii and Chile. Um, can you tell us a little bit about that and, and relate it to David on the Big Island's question or comment?
[00:26:12] David McClain: Well, a couple of comments. I think first of all, David on the Big Island's, uh, characterization of, uh, uh, uh, Hawaii as at times, uh, well, he was referring just to the Big Island, but I'd refer to the whole state as at times having a third world appearance. Um, I think that is less and less true, but there's something to it. Anytime you get an economy that is dependent on one product, um, as we were dependent on agriculture in the past, there's an elite that grows up around that product, and it's in the elite self-interest to uh maintain political control. And now we've had that happen in the first half of the century and then the transition, uh, in the second half of the century to Democratic Party leadership, but a new one product economy dominated by tourism. And that's something we always have to be vigilant to, and that's something, that's a reason we always have to focus on diversifying our economy. I would also like to speak though to David's concern that uh, that, you know, we're doing the production here and the profits are leaving. On David's definition, Boston's a third-world economy too. So is San Francisco, so is Seattle, so is Austin, Texas, so is uh the Research Triangle Park in in North Carolina. The world is so interconnected now that it's very rarely the case that a local populace will have enough savings to to generate uh development all by themselves. In fact, um, frankly, with the proper governmental uh controls, it's possible to take advantage of some other people's savings, that is the foreigners as David is is characterizing them, saving, um, to improve our own standard of living. Really that's the let of lesson of Adam Smith. And uh, I think what I see, what I hear in David's comment and, and, and it's a real poignant comment is, that the government controls have not been applied in in a sufficiently intelligent fashion to raise the standard of living of the citizenry, uh, sufficiently. And, and I'm, I think that's that's definitely a valid point, but you have, it's it's a very a very tricky thing here. If you're too heavy-handed about government controls, the foreign capital won't come in and you'll be stuck in in your third world level status of development. If you're, if you're too light on the controls, you'll get exploited by the foreign capital. So it really requires uh public servants who understand the inevitable interdependence of our economy with other economies and uh and can act on that in an in a effective manner visa-vis foreign corporations.
[00:28:24] Speaker 1: Joyce, any thoughts on this one? Probably this might cause more controversy than than any uh elimination, but um sometimes, David, on the Big Island, you know, the state of Hawaii has tried very hard to initiate some locally-based uh business initiatives there, and some the welcoming environment wasn't there. Uh, people don't seem to welcome efforts to try to start new industries, often in their own backyard. So-
[00:28:58] David McClain: David, any thoughts? Well, I I I think the balance, you know, I I agree there has to be a balance, but I I think the balance is way too far the other way. Uh, looking at tourism on the island here, you know, we have these big massive hotels. They're all foreign-owned. Which are so inappropriate to to our to an island uh there were big concrete mausoleums just about. But you know, we we should have small-scale tourist accommodations that are owned by the local people, they're run by local people, but that aren't multi-million dollar structures, but are, are island appropriate structures, you know, individual uh, cottages or whatever, types of things.
[00:29:41] David McClain: David, I've got four people waiting. I want Joyce to say something about your last comment, and then I'm going to have to move on, but I very much appreciate your your comments this morning. Joyce? David, I just wanted to leave with, leave you with a positive note that I think Big Island, more than any other island in our state, has the opportunity to promote Edutourism, both from the natural point of view, our volcanoes and the rainforest, as well as from some of the resources you have including the University of Hawaii at Hilo. So let's look positively at what the Big Island can do for itself. Thank you, David. Great.
[00:30:45] Speaker 1: [unintelligible — audio glitch] critically. I'm just telling you my [unintelligible — audio glitch] telling you my uh, edu tourism. And that and that is wonderful. And, but I would like to add something related to that. Uh, think about the two-way education. Not just people coming here to be educated, but also uh for us to learn, to learn from each other. And uh, also for to learn from the tourist who come in. In other words, to invite people here to to teach us certain things.
[00:32:57] David McClain: That's a great point, Eva. I want Joyce to respond to that one. Eve, I, I'm so glad you mentioned it and I kick myself for not mentioning that as one of the initiatives of visions for the University of Hawaii in international education as well as in what we call regular ordinary, uh, day-to-day educational efforts, you're right. The people that are here, the students that come here, plus our investing in what we call distance education can all be part of, uh, a way for us to do what you call the two-way education. We learn from resources they can be brought to Hawaii and can be beamed into Hawaii as well as the educ, uh, we share what we have from Hawaii to others.
[00:33:32] Speaker 1: Yeah. I would also like to say that I was a student at the university, and uh, I do have some complaints, and that has to do with the administrative procedures. I found that I would really like to see a more student-friendly operation in that respect with much more, uh, openness and, uh, clarity as to procedures for students. And another thing also may be, um, uh, more cooperation between faculty and less relations with the legislature. Or more freedom.
[00:34:22] David McClain: Oh, we love dealing with them, don't we Joyce? Yeah, I feel it. It was rather heavy. Well, Eva, your your points are are excellent ones and I want Joyce to at least quickly respond to the one about a more friendly environment.
[00:34:35] Speaker 1: Thank you, Eva. Uh, you know, we are such a big institutions that there are time times when we do forget the the the personal touch and the importance of each individual student and we take your ad, um, your concern and we'll make sure that we take every step to correct that.
[00:34:54] David McClain: Thank you, Eva.
[00:34:55] Speaker 1: Thank you very much.
[00:34:56] David McClain: In case you joined us late, this is the Price of Paradise radio show. Today's topic is Hawaii's international role and with me in the studio to discuss it are UH vice president Joyce Tsunoda, who's in charge of the international programs at the University of Hawaii, and UH professor of Business Enterprise David MacLean. We're live and phone lines are open. Just call 955-8821. Mike in Manoa, good morning.
[00:35:21] Speaker 2: Mike in Manoa, are you there?
[00:35:23] Speaker 4: Hi, no, but this is Genie from Maui.
[00:35:25] David McClain: All right. We'll take Genie in Maui. Good morning. I was wondering how, uh, uh, the Maui high-performance computer center located over in Maui, uh, how that would, uh, work with the University of Hawaii. How that could help or influence with the, uh, uh, you know, with the international. Joyce, do you know anything about that?
[00:35:45] Speaker 1: Well, that high performance center is part of the, um, University of Hawaii's partnership with University of New Mexico. And, uh, Hawaii, University of Hawaii, particularly Maui Community College, has been working very closely to make sure that the, the potential resources that can be brought to Hawaii through that center can be made available to our students as well as to the community. That's about as much as I know about it.
[00:36:16] David McClain: Well, I think the resources of a extremely high performance computing facility, um, bring a new dimension to Hawaii's competitive advantage. Uh, we can do a lot of stuff with regard to, um, to video, uh, that we hadn't been able to do before. Uh, small businesses that are just starting to crop up on Maui, uh, that, uh, that feed off of this, uh, I think are indications of that promise. Nobody's, uh, uh, general magic, uh, as exists in the Silicon Valley yet, at George Lucas' firm, but, uh, it's definitely, uh, an area where, uh, there's some, some new, new dimensions to Hawaii's arsenal of competitive weapons and that's exciting.
[00:36:54] Speaker 4: Genie, any other thoughts? Uh, no, that's great. Thanks. Yeah.
[00:36:57] David McClain: Thank you. All right. Uh, is Mike and Manoa there yet?
[00:37:01] Speaker 1: Good morning, yes.
[00:37:02] David McClain: Ah, good morning, Mike.
[00:37:03] Speaker 1: Um, very interesting discussion. Uh, but I've got a question. Uh, most of the examples, uh, of the international activities that have been mentioned this morning are relative to education and also uh, different government agencies such as APEC and, uh, OIR and what not. Um, and um, and additionally you've suggested that much of the economic benefit, uh, are really relative to tourism, i.e., bringing more people to Hawaii that will use the hotels and other facilities. Right. Um, that doesn't quite jive with your statement that, uh, we need economic diversification. How could you, how would you envision, um, international activities, uh, promoting some kind of economic diversification and what might those kinds of examples be?
[00:38:00] Randall Roth: and Manoa that's been listening closely to what we've been saying. What do you have to say to Mike?
[00:38:04] Speaker 1: Well, the issue of diversification is one that I've had a look at for a number of years since I came to the to the islands and when I first came, I saw that our diversification strategy, Randy was really one that was pretty far a field. We weren't building on our strengths. Um and in in any number of corporate strategy courses, we teach you to build on your core competences. What this state does well is it is it holds meetings well, it intertains guests well for obvious environmental and cultural reasons. Um that's what we need to build on.
[00:38:35] Randall Roth: And that's tourism.
[00:38:36] Speaker 1: And that's tourism, but to to build on that core competence of tourism, we need to do things like build a convention center. It looks like now that's on the way. It wasn't the case three or four years ago. And that can also get us into related areas such as health, sports, uh edutourism, um all of those things build on our core competence in tourism. It's diversification, but it's diversification in areas that are related to what we already do well. Now, it doesn't always have to involve bringing lots more people here. It can involve science, certainly that in the uh uh ocean earth sciences and astronomy area at the university, for example, that's an area where we are we have world-class researchers. And uh activities related to that uh can certainly help diversify the state's economy in ways that don't necessarily bring a lot more people.
[00:39:21] Randall Roth: So when you say diversification, you're not really saying uh let's start a manufacturing economy or let's uh uh do something with agriculture along those lines, basically, it's how do you build upon the core competency of uh tourism and the related guest industries.
[00:39:37] Speaker 1: Uh basically that's right. I think in agriculture there are a few things that we can do in diversified agriculture. David on the big island mentioned forestry and and I know people are looking at whether that's economically viable. Um
[00:39:48] Randall Roth: But the high cost of land here is impediment to all that, all those sorts of things.
[00:39:52] Speaker 1: And and you're right with manufacturing. We've recently been in some discussions with the university actually with the Motorola people and I know they they would be interested in putting a regional headquarters here, but their mindset is that every regional headquarters they have has to be connected to one of their manufacturing facilities. That's a very stiff test for Hawaii to pass because of the high cost of of labor, land, and and generally the high standard of living here.
[00:40:15] Randall Roth: Well, yeah, and then you've got all the transportation problems. Right. Joyce, do you have any thoughts?
[00:40:18] Joyce Tsunoda: Well, I Mike mentioned the transportation and then there's another possibility which still is just a thought and in and an exploratory process, but uh you know, uh the airline industry has been interested in looking at the possibility of bringing to Hawaii a major flight Airlines training center here and possibly doing that on the big island but that possibility depends on whether we can get all of the components of such an uh big project in place including getting the some of the funding needed to start um such a large project.
[00:40:58] Randall Roth: Mike, thank you very much. Thank you, bye bye. We have uh Uncle Les from Maui. Uncle Les, are you there?
[00:41:03] Speaker 2: Yes, I am. I'm calling from Maui. I'm just uh I'm trying to fit myself into all of you in your discussions. And I'm trying to find out the meaning of international activities. For Maui, I think uh going back in 1922 when I read a famous statement by uh by this uh famous uh uh book writer. And funny in the prophecies of a word in the all contemporaries, she mentioned that uh somehow during 1922 the people knew that the Hawaii was going to become a state. Mhm. And also there was going to be an encroachment of more Japanese here in Hawaii and it was going to have a Japanese governor. Uh what an international activity taught, I just wanted to say, I think international activity is a fantasy word. Uh here on Maui, it was international activity mentality that put hotels in the wrong places. It was the international activity that we are now facing the impacts here on Maui.
[00:42:12] Randall Roth: Uncle Les, by international activity, are you talking about foreign investment or are you talking about all of the the visitors from other countries?
[00:42:19] Speaker 2: It's the conversation itself. It's the conversation and whatever we talk about, we always end up with with with the aftermath, the impacts, a bad decision.
[00:42:32] Randall Roth: Mhm.
[00:42:33] Speaker 2: And and and and the conversation strikes me because uh I think it's propaganda what is being said right now.
[00:42:41] Randall Roth: Let me let me get some thoughts from our our folks here in the studio. Stay on the line. I want to come back to you. Uh David, first you and then Joyce.
[00:42:49] David McClain: Well, uh to to uh speak to Uncle Les, I I'm not shilling for anybody. Uh I honestly believe that uh you can't go back, that you have to be international now. Uh I acknowledge other points of view, certainly. The cost of not being international, I think we see if we look at the countries like uh the former the former Soviet Union of closing up their economies, of of trying not to have any connection with the outside world. Um the the result is a lower standard of living for their citizens. That is not to say, as as less as pointed out, that is not to say that all the decisions that are made are good decisions. There are certainly a lot of mistakes made along the way, but I my take on it is it's far better to open up and live by your wits than to close up and uh and try to avoid mistakes at every step.
[00:43:33] Randall Roth: So if there's a tsunami, we should surf it rather than than be crushed by it or something like that?
[00:43:38] David McClain: We should try to catch the waves.
[00:43:40] Randall Roth: Uh Joyce?
[00:43:41] Joyce Tsunoda: I don't uh blame Uncle S for for for feeling the way he does. International actually is not necessarily a very uh any any special word. I think it's a way of looking at our uh education or what we do and maybe the word the better word is global. Uh you know, you can't we can't get away uh from the fact that with television and the the high technology, what happens all over the world comes to us very, very quickly and it's really important that people who live here from young to old understand what's going on around around the world and be very comfortable with it. So, from my point of view, when we talk about international education, it's education in a broadest sense, and it's not necessarily related to bringing some foreign investments only to Hawaii.
[00:44:36] Randall Roth: Uncle Les, have we changed your mind?
[00:44:38] Speaker 2: Well, I'm just uh I just read an editorial here in a Maui local paper about the plague in India. And let's take for example the plague becomes a a a threat to all of us. A different kind of plague? Uh yeah, the plague in India and how do we stop international activity from the plague at the international airports? Uh who answers that? For example, one I'm getting down is God bless America and land of the free. How much has America proven itself to to expand the uh everything that is good in America. For example, I just read another article Let's, are you are you saying that the more bad things are coming in from the outside than good things?
[00:45:27] Speaker 2: Yes, because Hawaii is a special place out in the Pacific Ocean, one of its kind. And and and and and for Maui, all I'm saying is that through our local politics, politicians that need to know how to deal with art itself and the nature of doing art and the nature of things. If we lack our politicians here on Maui with no sense of knowing what it is to put their heads in the ocean or how to eat the vauna and the seaweeds, how to get the taste of things in Hawaii. We've got to figure out what we want and how to get there, right? And use our heads. Okay.
[00:46:15] Randall Roth: Les, I I appreciate your thoughts. We've got a couple people who have been waiting for about 10 minutes. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you. Uh, Bill from Maui, you've been waiting a long time. Thank you for your patience. You're on the air.
[00:46:26] Speaker 3: Well, I think we have a very big industry here that nobody focuses on, nobody helps and particularly in Maui, they've cut out the library down to community college, so there's back to the high school level. They took all the good books off the shelves and send them to to Honolulu. I think we have retired people. The people who retire here basically bring quite a bit of income with them, and they are able to support all sorts of activities on the islands and also they pay very substantial income taxes to the state of Hawaii.
[00:47:02] Randall Roth: But you feel like you're being taken for granted?
[00:47:05] Speaker 3: Well, the the the way we have a very ideal industry, the retirement industry. Clean industry. And it doesn't upset the local and they bring their children and their grandchildren over to visit them during the holidays and things like that and spend the summer. So it's very ideal. Nothing is being organized. We're all talking about bringing in Chicago factories or Yeah. Pittsburgh factories instead of treating and organizing the industry we have here which is ideal for the islands, retirement industry.
[00:47:35] Randall Roth: Bill, let me ask our global economists whether we're taking people like Bill for granted and not providing the kinds of of services that uh tax paying contributors to our economy deserve.
[00:47:47] David McClain: Well, I I think Bill's probably right that the retirement industry sort of snuck up on us. Uh we we are maybe not as old of retirement destination as a Florida was and and that's certainly a state that plays to the retirement crowd. Um and the the demographics are wonderful here. I mean, the the post-war baby boom, uh you know, is going to be getting older and older and they're all going to want to retire and so on. Um and the demand for services is something the state has to think about. Um I I'd just say with respect to the the library, the Maui community college, I know we're involved in the college of Business Administration with Maui uh community college in a joint MBA program and that's an example of how we're trying to to reach out to to the neighbor islands to do more. Um, and we've put some CD-ROMs over there uh that uh in fact replace a lot of those books that Bill seems to be having uh having some difficulty finding. But the general idea that we can play into uh the retired population, I think this fits in wonderfully with Joyce's edutourism idea. Um, that's that's a very good point.
[00:48:46] Speaker 3: Well, the main thing is the difference in Florida, people can get the old car and old truck and drive there. Here you get a very different economic level, because they have to fly here.
[00:48:56] Randall Roth: It sounds like uh David's pretty receptive to to what you're suggesting, Bill. Let's get Joyce's thoughts and then we'll take another caller.
[00:49:03] Joyce Tsunoda: Okay, Bill, you know, Maui has been the pioneer in our University of Hawaii system in terms of promoting television education and long-distance education. And so it is possible for people on Maui, including yourself, to get the education from other parts of the uh University of Hawaii system without having to leave uh your island. I hope I hope that you look more into the Skybridge system and the hit system that Maui has Maui Community College has brought to your island.
[00:50:05] Randall Roth: Bill, I I think she's saying that glass is half full instead of half empty. I'm not sure. Joyce, that's exactly what I'm saying.
[00:50:12] Speaker 3: Well, you can't go and look on the bookshelves there and find the books. I've just written a book that's becoming a bestseller, and I had to do a lot of research. Now if I were try to do it, I I couldn't even find the books there. Well, the darn electronic system is no substitute for having them on the shelves.
[00:50:19] Randall Roth: Bill, I think you and I have been resisting that darn computer and uh my hunch is that someday we're going to have to to buy CD-ROMs or check them out of the library instead of books, Joyce. No. Okay, thank you, Bill. We have a caller from Kiki, who's been on the line for a long time. Ed, good morning.
[00:50:35] Speaker 4: Good morning. Thanks again for just a quick thought in contrast to your Maui people. Maui is a very interesting example of a relatively boomy economy. How about some thoughts on struggling Kauai? Uh not only has it always been behind in economics, but really is still badly hurt by Iniki. So that's just my question. I'd like to hear the responses.
[00:50:50] David McClain: Well, Ed's uh Ed's question is really uh right on target. Uh Kauai is still um uh maybe the glass in Kauai is half full, but it's only half full. It's uh it's slowly recovering from that that epic natural natural disaster. Um I think what we've seen in the recent election results in Kauai is a sense that um uh too much caution with regard to economic development can in fact uh um impede uh the state or the the the islands progress. Um once again, Kauai is a very special place because of the natural beauty. But responsible tourism is uh really the best hope for getting that island back to uh uh the level of uh wellbeing that it had before the the hurricane.
[00:51:34] Joyce Tsunoda: Yes, and I can't stop from being a promoter of University of Hawaii and what we do there and I have to tell you that uh I think Kawai Community College there is one of the best resources that Kawai has in terms of promoting edutourism. Um, the people, the faculty there have promoted the um um, how Kawai as a place to come and place to come to learn. And so, I hope that you'll support that college there.
[00:52:04] Randall Roth: You know, as I was listening to and I hadn't thought of it in these terms, but the last four trips I've made to Kauai have been to either give a talk or to attend some educational function, and all four of them were at the community college over there. Ed, any additional thoughts? Yeah, that's these are very good inputs. I'm glad to hear them. Kawai's problem always has been of course relatively small clout in the legislature because of a small population. So, I think that some real considerations got to be given to special consideration, special help until it is up on its feet again. Thank you very much. Thank you, Ed.
[00:52:36] Randall Roth: In case you joined us late, you're listening to the Price of Paradise radio show. Today's topic is Hawaii's international role. And with me in the studio to discuss it are UH vice-president Joyce Sunoda and UH professor of business enterprise, David McLain. We're live and our phone lines are open. Just call 955-8821. Neighbor islanders are invited to call collect. The number again, 955-8821 and I might add, we really like to have first-time callers. When we get somebody who's never called in before, we love to hear from them and you don't even have to give us your right name. You can bib on the name if that makes you feel more comfortable. Uh, we've talked a lot about what's being done right now. What needs to be done? What's missing? Uh, I hear people talk, for example, about Hawaii becoming the mayos of the of the Pacific, a place where people go to be healed and to um, to um, to get well, but it doesn't seem, at least from what I can see to be happening. Why wouldn't things like that that almost everybody agrees is a great idea? Why wouldn't they be happening, David?
[00:53:40] David McClain: Well, I think uh two two reasons immediately come to mind, Randy. We we need to be a state with an attitude. We need to be a state that says, hey, we want to be involved with the rest of the world. Um, we're not quite there yet. If you I if you travel elsewhere in the world and I do a bit of that, um you see that are a lot there are a lot of other places that have said, hey, we're in the swim. Um let's let's uh get involved. Hawaii because of its uniqueness I think, and that's a fair that's a fair reason to be cautious, has said, maybe maybe not. And until we're clear that we want to be involved, um we're not going to have the kind of political leadership that is going to respond to that in the population. So, that's one reason. A second reason I think is is just some attempts to regulate uh our international involvement that that might be able to be done a little bit better. Um, we we have um a cap on the number of foreign students that we can take at the university. Every state university does this. But the intelligent way to do it, I I would submit is uh rather than to put an absolute numerical cap on and just say you can't come and and and let it go at that is to raise tuition for out-of-state residents substantially and then let the market uh control uh uh the the uh external or foreign student involvement in our in our campuses. That way there'll be more money in the state's coffers and we'll still have the same number of foreign students. Um, so I think a little bit more intelligent approach to to regulating our foreign activity, our international activity uh would would go a long way.
[00:54:40] Randall Roth: We have a couple callers on the line. First, Graham from the Big Island. Good morning, Graham. Good morning, Randy. Um, you were uh singing Australia's praises earlier. Or your guests. Um, I'd like to counteract that as an Australian living here in Hawaii. I am downright appalled and ashamed at my country's behavior with New Guinea in uh in uh what it has has done to the uh the natives um uh their Uh and I'm surprised that um um Hawaii hasn't taken a a a bigger role in commenting uh on some of the uh massacres uh that are going on in that area. Well, I I appreciate your your comments. I think our guests are uh are not positioned to comment on that one, but uh we we appreciate your call, Graham. Okay.
[00:55:31] Randall Roth: Next caller, Dr. John from Waikiki. Dr. John, you're on the air. Yes, hello. And uh line with the uh international activity theme. I'd like to mention that uh I've been doing a program with the goal of training Hawaiian youngsters toward a global mentality. And through Teleclass International in Hawaii, we have a program to hook up schools here with schools around the world. And we do that through email and through video telephones. We use a black and white uh uh picture phone, but we also going into ISDN. That sounds like a great idea. And now we have a video phone. There's a video phone in every public school in Hawaii and in 25 countries around the world, with about 30 of them being in Japan. We've done over 500 phone contacts and we still continue that. So those kids are growing up realizing that they're part of something much bigger than what they can can see. That's the whole point, to say just because you're on an island state doesn't mean you can't be in the center of Paris or the center of uh Mexico City or in Japan. Well, Dr. John, I compliment you on that program. That sounds like a real good one. Joyce, Thank you. Yes, I've heard of your program, Dr. John, and I think that's exactly what international education is all about. The looking
[00:57:00] Speaker 1: the future. We feel the young people that have done this and have this experience will be ready for the next generation of international activities, and we hope that others who have this idea will join Teleclass International and be a part of that.
[00:57:17] Speaker 2: Sounds great. Thank you for your call.
[00:57:18] Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
[00:57:19] Speaker 2: We have another caller from the Big Island. Michael from the Big Island, you're on the air.
[00:57:23] Speaker 3: Yes, I just had a quick comment. The problem I see with economic analysis is that it always evaluates things in terms of GNP per capita or something, but if you look at an example like Rarotonga and the Cook Islands, their GNP per capita is very low, but their quality of life can be very high.
[00:57:48] Speaker 2: Let's see what our economist in the studio has to say about that. David McLean?
[00:57:51] David McClain: Well, Michael is exactly right. GNP is hardly the barometer we want to look at. We want to look at quality of life. GNP is just one indicator. Having said that, though, I think it's a slippery slope. It's a dangerous step to go in the direction that says GNP doesn't matter at all, and you know, what does matter I think is having productive work that is emotionally satisfying and rewarding and a healthy family and personal environment. That's not necessarily correlated with a huge GNP or a small one, but I think we ignore GNP, or shall we say productivity at our peril.
[00:58:29] Speaker 2: Does our chemist in the studio have anything to say about economists?
[00:58:33] Joyce Tsunoda: Not necessarily as a chemist, but as an educator, and I feel that if it's the mood of the people that's important. If the University of Hawaii does its job well, then I think we will have in Hawaii a population that feel and live and vividly, and feel that we are part of a great big global society, and that's what I think international education is all about.
[00:58:59] Speaker 2: Michael, are you there?
[00:59:02] Speaker 3: Yes.
[00:59:03] Speaker 2: Any parting thoughts? Then we just got 30 seconds to go. Any anything you want to add?
[00:59:08] Speaker 3: No, thank you.
[00:59:09] Speaker 2: Okay. Thank you very much. Well, that gives us 30 seconds. David, what hasn't been said that at least should be mentioned?
[00:59:16] David McClain: I just come back to what one thing I mentioned before, if Hawaii is going to be really effective in a global setting, we have to develop more of an attitude that says, we want to be part of it, we want to live by our wits, we're willing to take our chances and we're willing to have government that acts intelligently in that environment.
[00:59:34] Speaker 2: A state with an attitude. I like that. Joyce, what have we left out that needs to be mentioned?
[00:59:39] Joyce Tsunoda: Just reinforce that can-do attitude.
[00:59:42] Speaker 2: Can-do attitude. And what was that word again that we all liked so much?
[00:59:46] Joyce Tsunoda: Edutourism.
[00:59:47] Speaker 2: Edutourism. I like it. My guests today were David McLean and Joyce Tsunoda, both from the University of Hawaii. Our show is produced by Susie Roth, with technical support from Jeff Ilardi. We hope you'll tune in again next week when we explore yet another issue that is shaping the future of our island home. You've been listening to the Price of Paradise radio show. I'm Randy Roth. Aloha.
[01:01:41] Speaker 2: Aloha. This is Randy Roth, host of the Price of Paradise Radio Show. Join us this Sunday morning at 7:30 on KHPR 88.1 or KKUA 90.7 when the former chairman of the State Water Commission, Dick Cox, and Kamehameha Schools, Michael Chun, will talk about water issues in Hawaii. The show will be live and, as always, you can participate by phone. That's the Price of Paradise radio show, this Sunday morning at 7:30 on Hawaii Public Radio.
[01:01:45] Randall Roth: Join us this Sunday morning at 7:30 on KHPR 88.1 or KKUA 90.7, when the former chairman of the State Water Commission, Dick Cox, and Kamehameha Schools', Michael Chun, will talk about water issues in Hawaii. The show will be live and as always, you can participate by phone. That's the Price of Paradise radio show this Sunday morning at 7:30 on Hawaii Public Radio.
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