Hawaii's Republican Party
Price of Paradise · Hawaii Public Radio · aired 1994-12-18
Guest host: Chuck Freedman. Guests: Jane Tatibouet (Chair, Hawaii Republican Party); Michael Liu (State Representative)
Duration: 1:04:33

[00:00:00] Chuck Freedman: Good morning. This is the Price of Paradise radio show and I'm not Randy Roth. I'm Chuck Friedman, sitting in for Randy. This morning's show is about the future of the Republican party. We're not here to lament the past but to raise some fundamental questions about the future. Like how important is a two party system in Hawaii? Why are Republicans doing so well nationally in elections but seemingly poorly here? What are the plans to rejuvenate the Republican party in Hawaii, and my favorite question, is this just a Republican problem or do we all lose when we live in a one party state? With me today in the studio are two outstanding Republican leaders. They are Republican

[00:01:32] Chuck Freedman: party chair Jane Tatibuiet, and Hawaii State Senator Mike Liu.

[00:01:32] Chuck Freedman: Let's start the morning with a basic fundamental question. I think that's on everybody's mind. Why did the Republican party do so well in the last election nationally, but relatively poorly here? Maybe we'll throw that one to Jane.

[00:01:47] Jane Tatibouet: Thank you. Um I think that one can answer it to in the most obvious way. First is that traditionally, I think all those of us who live in Hawaii and love Hawaii have have this sense that we're two years behind the styles of the mainland, whether it's the economy which caught up to us two years late, um, in the early 91, um, or or um any other style that happens to be a fat on the mainland. But but seriously, I I think the party here um had a higher mountain to climb because we are essentially a one party state, uh in as much as for the last 35 to 40 years, we've had the democratic

[00:02:38] Jane Tatibouet: control of of the uh state house and and all other, you know, facets of government pretty much.

[00:02:38] Jane Tatibouet: We we have a um a long road to go but we will catch up to the mainland. We feel this is our opportunity to uh um harvest the success of the mainland and import it here. We're poised to do it, and I have every every hope that that the wave that hit the mainland will indeed reach away by 1996.

[00:03:02] Michael Liu: Well, Chuck, I would also like to add to that background statement by Jane, that we were in a rather unusual situation where we had a very strong third party candidate for Governor. And I think that certainly not only affected the gubernatorial race but affected the ability of the party to concentrate its efforts uh in a more unified fashion where we could have pulled themes where we could have pulled resources. Because you know Pat had to contend with with a two front war, which made it very difficult for her effort and the party's effort then to reach down and work with a lot of other folks. And in some of the other races too, we did

[00:03:53] Michael Liu: have some reasonable third party kind of challenges and that I think added in a very different element to Hawaii than some of the other states on the mainland.

[00:03:53] Chuck Freedman: Some people would say that the reason we have these third parties is because we don't really have a second one. That if there were if there were a Republican party that that were vital, that were providing choices, that that's that's all we would need. Um what do we have to do to achieve that? Is is the is the problem that people are are running away from the Republican party because it doesn't have a a tent for them? There's not a place for them?

[00:04:19] Michael Liu: Or is it because the other parties that they're going to, be it Democrat, an alternative party is just more attractive. What do the Republicans have to do [unintelligible — audio glitch] make a strong party? Well, Chuck, I think we have really for the first time in many years the chance to do what I think is needed to provide a viable second party here being our party, my party. We have a new leader for our party, in Jane, who understands that a party is not just an individual or a group of individuals, it's really creating an institution, a philosophical framework for society. Much like churches play a role, much like certain kinds of businesses play a

[00:05:11] Michael Liu: role or nonprofits, or charities, etc. The Republican party has to play a role in building that institution is very important.

[00:05:11] Michael Liu: And then on the elective political front, I think we have leaders who understand that it's up to us to create an overarching tent to create the philosophical basis for which a lot of candidates can run from in 1996, essentially to make 1996 a referendum on the direction, the leadership in the state.

[00:05:21] Chuck Freedman: Are there some key tenants? Are there some principles that the Republican stands behind and stands for that that is proposing to the public as as a basis to attract people in, or is it just going to depend on good Republican leaders, of which we've had at least some over the years and hopefully for the party more. But isn't a little bit more than individual leaders?

[00:05:36] Jane Tatibouet: Definitely, it also, I think on the concept front. And it's to go a little further than what we have in the in the past. Not only is it smaller government, not only is it less cost of doing business or cost of living, etc. I think a major tenet in Hawaii is that we want to move away, and I think a lot of people understand this. We haven't stated it and I think as clearly as we want to. Want to move away from government doing so many things in this state. We have government tremendously involved in housing, we have government tremendously wanting to get involved in insurance, we have government wanting to get involved in almost

[00:06:45] Jane Tatibouet: every single program that we have out there, and we need to step back from that, and we have to remind people that, hey, that is a problem.

[00:06:45] Jane Tatibouet: I think an analogy would be in the in the private sector. Uh, we have learned over the years, experimenting, um businesses of all sorts that you should concentrate on what you do best and what you're initially there for. And the other uh aspects of of a business's needs should be uh allowed to be done by yet another business. For instance, in my business, I could say in the hotel business, we have found in many cases that it is far more costly for us to get into the laundry business, uh then to have people who are professionals in the laundry business do our laundry for us, that's sheets and towels and so forth. In the same

[00:07:36] Jane Tatibouet: instance, the government seems to feel that it should get into all of those periphery businesses, and they really don't have the expertise and can't do it uh with the efficiency uh that the private sector can.

[00:07:36] Jane Tatibouet: Uh, I think it's sort the Republicans have the concept of they would far rather teach the man to fish then to give and give and give fish to the man for years on end.

[00:07:49] Chuck Freedman: Okay, the rubber's got to hit the road for the party over the next couple of years. I think a lot of people feel that this is really a key period for the the viability of the the Republican Party. What's the, at least broadly speaking, the plan of action to increase party membership and to field to be ready to field stronger candidates for 1996?

[00:08:10] Jane Tatibouet: That's mine. Um, I'm going to take it in reverse if I may. Um, fielding stronger candidates, this year we feel we fielded the strongest candidates I believe we ever have in my knowledge in Hawaii. Perhaps not the greatest numbers, although we were up over 100. We did not try and and just put names in in races. Uh, I tried to find very viable, winnable candidates for those races. Of course, some people in our democratic process come forth on their own and um, you know, all sorts of people, and I think that's wonderful about our democracy is that anyone can run who wants to. But I was actually recruiting people who could win. We had a

[00:09:12] Jane Tatibouet: uh training program that began a year ago for our candidates and these were um to the last one, very, very viable. They were very ethnically diverse, they were very socioeconomically diverse, uh they were for the most part for almost every one of them a grassroots person who who represented another job, another perspective, another professional background.

[00:09:12] Jane Tatibouet: We had everything from dentists to school teachers to um uh uh hotel workers to inventors, and I could go on and on. Uh and and as I said, uh being as ethnically diverse, they were from all the islands. Uh we did have a tremendous um a collection of viable candidates. What happened I believe, and if one thinks back, uh because of the uh major elections we had going on this year at the time of the primary election, we had Oahu's mayoral election and we had a mayoral um Oahu's City Council election and the newspapers, the media as a whole gave all of their coverage to those candidates. So there was no opportunity to focus on

[00:10:17] Jane Tatibouet: the legislative or or other island council races. The same thing came around in the general election, only then it was the three gubernatorial races. And uh, and so again, all the attention, every day you opened up the newspaper for instance, it was comparing the thoughts of all the gubernatorial candidates, and again the legislators were left out.

[00:10:17] Jane Tatibouet: I know when I ran for the legislature and I'm sure Mike recalls running that they did focus on different legislative candidates and give people information about them and so forth and so on other than just that pre-election um uh special pamphlet. So the candidates are there, uh many of those that lost and lost by uh just a few votes in many cases, uh are up and running already for 96. They have committed to doing this, uh and they will start their uh formal training um in January of this year. We have because of the success at that level, which is really the grassroots level of the beginning candidate level, uh I have had many new

[00:11:15] Jane Tatibouet: candidates approach me, very viable, very winnable candidates and uh, I haven't even started recruiting yet. So uh the good news is that my phone is ringing daily with someone inquiring about being a candidate. So that that I think answers your question about the candidates.

[00:11:15] Jane Tatibouet: Uh, building the membership, um to some extent, this is emerging from the candidates because you see they work so hard out in the field. They ran the the best and hardest elections, I think we've had candidates run since I could possibly recall myself. Uh, they were finding all kinds of new Republicans. When I say new Republicans, I'm not talking about a type of a party member, I'm talking about people that were unknown to us as Republicans. And uh these were of all ethnicities and they finally this year for the first time which was the very heartening thing, were willing to step forward in these various candidates campaigns and say, you know, I believe in what

[00:12:13] Jane Tatibouet: you say, um I'm a Republican and have never um let on about it so to speak, or I'm willing to step forward now and be an upfront Republican and I'm willing to um um be accounted for, to stand up and be accounted for.

[00:12:13] Jane Tatibouet: So through our candidates and their tremendous campaigns, we we have already built a tremendous new base of uh grassroots Republicans. In addition um, we just have a lot of uh volunteers uh on the bigger campaigns who also have come forward. And then at the absolute grassroots level, uh we are organizing for our precinct elections which will be the end of January from January 25th to 31st and uh again reaching out to a great many people in the area and inquiring if they'd like to be a part of it. So we we have a tremendous number number of people already coming on board and we won't let it stop with the precinct elections. We will continue

[00:12:53] Jane Tatibouet: through the year.

[00:12:53] Chuck Freedman: And how would people if they want to be become Republicans and involved in those precinct elections, what should be their course of action? Maybe they're listening today.

[00:13:00] Jane Tatibouet: Their most immediate course of action should call our Republican Party headquarters here in Honolulu at uh 5261755.

[00:13:09] Chuck Freedman: Okay, this is not a a paid political announcement. Indeed, this is the Price of Paradise Radio Show. I'm Chuck Friedman. The topic today is the future of the Republican party in Hawaii and with me in the studio are two outstanding Republican leaders, Jane Tatibuiet and Mike Liu. We are live. Our phone lines are open. If you've got questions for these leaders or strong suggestions about uh what the Republican party can do to rejuvenate itself and and be strong in 1996, just call and the number is 9558821. That's 9558821 and neighbor islanders can call uh in collect. Um, following up a little bit, I think from the standpoint of Republican field for 1994, I got an

[00:14:12] Chuck Freedman: opportunity to to go to an event that featured uh the House [unintelligible — audio glitch] Senate uh candidates and it was a real good field, broad based and and uh vital I thought. And yet, nothing really much got across to the whole community about that.

[00:14:12] Chuck Freedman: Jane suggested it's because because uh so much was going on with other races, and that may be so. I'd like to get your reaction to that. But before we do, we've got Nancy on the line, and Nancy's calling from good old Honolulu. Nancy?

[00:14:25] Caller: Yes. Um I'd like to have them comment on this. I'd like to make a couple of comments and have them comment. One is that I have felt for a long time that one thing every candidate should do here who runs on the Republican label is to say why he or she is a Republican when it would be so much easier to be a Democrat. And just point that out and drive it home to get more ideology rather than less into the reasons for running for a particular office. And the other thing is that I think we should just be open about um what has really gone wrong with the with the fate of the Republican

[00:15:31] Caller: party all these years is that we're still being tarred and feathered with what was the the situation up you know 50 years ago. And that it would we almost ought to speak almost to the more directly to the Japanese community than any other, that in this day and age that would the actor accident of history that forced most of them into the Democratic party or to be leaning that way, should be corrected and that they should realize that at least 50% of them um is the is the um traditional Republican in the way he or she lives his life.

[00:15:31] Chuck Freedman: Okay, Nancy. Let's get Mike to react to that, so a complicated issue.

[00:15:36] Michael Liu: Well, Nancy, I think your your comments are are right on the mark. Uh my experience and my success has essentially been following the script that you have talked about. I take a fairly simple approach uh in campaigning and I think others can take a page from that. Let's campaign on on what Republicans are known for uh and which people respect us for. and that is understanding uh how to run things, make them work, uh how to keep our government down to uh a modest size and uh how to save money so that people have more in their pocketbooks. These are Republican issues. And uh as you say, I think uh uh many in Hawaii, Japanese

[00:16:31] Michael Liu: Americans, Chinese Americans, uh Vietnamese Americans etc. understand those issues and we need to repeat, repeat, repeat that we uh are the party that understands how to do these things and that the problems of the Democrats uh have in fact, well, countered to those points.

[00:16:31] Jane Tatibouet: I think the point has been made a lot, and I certainly agree with it too, is that it would be much healthier for the state to have a really competitive second force. And the people don't want to vote Republican for any other reason, they ought to consider that. But, but even more than that, I think it's, it's this idea that it's really tougher to be a Republican. And therefore, any Republican should, should command and demand a lot of respect for coming out and being that.

[00:16:54] Chuck Freedman: Thank thank you, Nancy. That's that a couple a couple of points there, really. Is it is it ideology or tactics? Is is it the fact that

[00:17:02] Jane Tatibouet: Well, it's it's actually both. We have to be smarter on tactics, you know, too. But but still, people should be proud to be Republicans. At least I am, and I I also resent the fact of people who give money both ways. I always think that's poor too, you know. People are afraid to just say, well, in this state particularly, that uh uh that I'm a Republican and I certainly don't want to give money to the causes I don't believe in.

[00:17:24] Chuck Freedman: Okay, Nancy. Let's try to get some reaction from from Jane.

[00:17:26] Jane Tatibouet: I really think we just have to get tougher about all this and not be so kind of namby pamby about everything.

[00:17:31] Chuck Freedman: Okay, real good. I I'll hang up and you go. Okay, thank you Nancy. That's real good. Is is the issue is the issue ideology, Mike, or or tactics, or both? Is it Republicans just haven't run smart or is it that is it that they haven't defined their message? What do you think it is?

[00:17:44] Michael Liu: Well, I think uh it's a combination of both. I don't think we have really done the the best job at our top races in defining a message that helps not only that campaign but the party as a whole. And then, strategically, uh I think we uh uh we generally don't run the best campaigns. Although, I think this time with Jane's help, we certainly tried. A lot of people did what they were supposed to do. For a lot of other reasons, they lost. But for instance, I think uh in some ways, uh this is no no criticism of all the hard work which went into say Pat's campaign, but uh I think at times when you

[00:18:28] Michael Liu: try and muscle uh your way to it and using the same things that the other folks do, uh it it don't work.

[00:18:28] Chuck Freedman: Fighting fire with fire maybe didn't work this time. We've got David from the Big Island on the line, David?

[00:18:33] Caller: Yes, good morning.

[00:18:34] Chuck Freedman: Good morning.

[00:18:35] Caller: Um, your guest just mentioned um being proud to be a Republican. And I used to be a Republican, but there there's something new creeping into the Republican party. I think it started with Reagan and that's a a definite anti-environmentalism. And and I think, I don't see it on the island here, but on the mainland, I I think if the Republican party wants to become stronger here, uh they have to divorce themselves from

[00:19:00] Caller: this aspect of the Republican Party, um and and perhaps this is why the Green Party is is gaining some strength here because it it is an environmental party versus the anti-environmentalism of the Republicans. In particular, this this issue which they call taking, where they say if a person has a piece of land, they can do whatever they want with it. If there's an endangered species there, they can kill it, unless the government pays them not to do that. And and this is real, you know, it is getting right to the core of a whole lot of environmental legislation, and trying to weaken it.

[00:19:36] Jane Tatibouet: David, good thought. One of the two of you, has indeed the the Republican Party missed the vote on the on environmental issues? Got a thought on that?

[00:19:47] Chuck Freedman: I think here in Hawaii, I I can't speak for the rest of the mainland because I've been so focused on my home here in Hawaii. But I think the Republicans here [unintelligible — audio glitch] certainly respected the environment and supported environmental legislation. I think we all realize we live on an island and it's a very precious commodity that we have here. We have to protect it. We have to protect our water sources and every other source that we have. One of our Republican house members, Cynthia Theelan, is an environmental lawyer, and she kind of is the leader, so to speak. She is actually the minority floor leader, but in on the issues of the environment,

[00:20:47] Chuck Freedman: she leads the caucus in keeping them very aware of environmental issues, keeping them very aware of the consequences of of seemingly innocent legislation on environmental issues.

[00:20:47] Chuck Freedman: And she keeps the party as a whole aware of those same issues. So I think we're all trying hard to pull together and do what's best for the people and for our environment.

[00:20:59] Caller: I think that it probably is good that we make that point clear, because if we don't, people will think, well, the Republicans here are the same as the Republicans on the mainland. We have to make it clear that there's a difference on that, you know, in that one subject.

[00:21:14] Jane Tatibouet: Thank you, David. Let's hear what Mike Liu has to say. Mike.

[00:21:17] Michael Liu: Well, David, I I had a fair amount of experience in the environmental area when I was with the Bush administration, and I think there was a lot of misperception as to where the administration stood on the environment. Perhaps that was why George Bush in the end lost, because a lot of the messages did get muddled, but clearly it was a message of balance. And I don't think anyone, whether they see themselves as an environmentalist or someone who sees themselves as someone who's not totally aligned with that, is in disagreement that the issue is balanced. The issue is how do you define that? I think if the Republican Party can work with the need to develop

[00:22:04] Michael Liu: more community-based economic development types of of businesses, and which can be include large as well as small businesses.

[00:22:04] Michael Liu: That is where the balance can come into play, combining the elements of the environment with viable economic types of businesses.

[00:22:13] Jane Tatibouet: Thank you very much, David. Mike, let me put you on the spot here. People are already beginning to talk about particular issues. They like to see the Republicans move on. You're going to be the the or you are the new minority leader for the upcoming session. The Republican is going to move ahead with a with a clearer platform this time. Are they going to provide the kind of program and ideological choices that Nancy was talking about before?

[00:22:34] Michael Liu: I think, um, I know what I intend to to do, uh, which is to, of course, I think we have to be first of all real and place the clear plate of responsibility upon the party that now does control our legislature overwhelmingly and the and the chief executive spot and that is the the Democratic Party. We'll make it absolutely clear to the people of the state that if performance, if the performance is not there in two years or in four years, then clearly those elections in 96 and 98 have to be a clear referendum on performance. Have we brought down the cost of living? Have we brought down the cost of housing? Have we increased

[00:23:22] Michael Liu: jobs? Have our kids improved in schools? Whether it's SAT scores or some other kind of measure.

[00:23:22] Michael Liu: Have we made improvement in the overall relationship between groups, whether it be ethnic, economic, etc.? Those are the performance standards that we, as Republicans, have to repeat over and over again, so that people when they go to the booths in 96, will say, aha. Now's the time to grade, you know, who's in power. This is what's there.

[00:23:41] Jane Tatibouet: You know, on the mainland that seems to have been enough. It seems to have been enough for the Republicans to say what the Clinton administration is doing wrong is wrong. It's time for a change. Let's get some new guys in. Then you see the polls on on the Republicans that were voted in and their their popularity, at least at the moment, doesn't seem to be much higher than the people they replaced, but people voted for change. Here, it seems that just saying, hey, we need to we need a change. Uh, everything needs fixing, but not proposing specifics, you know, without the specifics, people don't seem to vote just on the issue of change. They seem

[00:24:16] Jane Tatibouet: to want something more.

[00:24:16] Jane Tatibouet: So, I think the suggestion, the suggestion might be that the Republicans come up with a a stronger, not just a platform, but real issues that they want to promote and develop. And I think that's what the the public is waiting for. Are there plans to do that?

[00:24:33] Chuck Freedman: I'd say, yes, we have plans to do it, and indeed it was being done by many candidates this year. [unintelligible — audio glitch] suspect there's a dichotomy out there in in with the actual grassroots public, in as much as they express the desire for wanting issues presented to them very, very specifically. And yet when you present them to them very specifically, whether you do it um on the radio or in TV or in the newspaper, or person to person, they get kind of this glassy eyed look, you know, and and so and and then they want you to go on to something else. So you have on the one hand them demanding for issues, and

[00:25:18] Chuck Freedman: on the other hand, when you actually give the issues, it it doesn't necessarily appeal to them to to pursue listening to.

[00:25:18] Chuck Freedman: Um, I I think so perhaps it's the way we market and package our issues, that that is that is the problem. Another thing in Hawaii, I think since we've had one party uh in uh the driver's seat for so long here, that a whole generation, almost two generations have grown up with the Democratic Party in control, and they really don't have any sense of understanding of the fact that there are other ways of doing things that will work. And we're we're isolated out here in the Pacific. We don't get the uh spillover of news from various other states and what works and doesn't work, which which all of the people on the mainland are much

[00:25:58] Chuck Freedman: more aware and plugged in to their surrounding areas.

[00:25:58] Chuck Freedman: And and we have no surrounding areas. So [unintelligible — audio glitch] ideas and concepts that may work in the state next to mine on the mainland, for instance, are not coming to Hawaii. They just don't reach that far. And people have no concept as to whether these uh proposed uh issues, you know, solutions for issues, or solutions for change, I think they're a little afraid if they really work or not, because they've never ever had the opportunity to see change work here.

[00:26:25] Jane Tatibouet: Just just a reminder folks, you're listening to the Price of Paradise radio show and we've got to two Republican leaders with us today, Jane Tatu and Senator Mike Liu. Please call in with your questions about the future of the Republican Party or your suggestions about that future. The number is 955-8821.

[00:26:44] Michael Liu: And Chuck, I think in the areas that I mentioned in terms of a performance scorecard, uh, all of those, uh, we should highlight one or two, maybe maybe maximum three things that we do propose, which are clear uh to the point which people can understand. Uh, if we are talking about the economy, uh, we can talk about certain taxes that we may want to reduce or cut. Uh, if we are talking about the size of government, let's highlight and let's [unintelligible — audio glitch] what and where we would cut, what offices, what kind of departments, etc., how many uh kinds of jobs. Um, I think our problem has been in the past, uh, is that,

[00:27:34] Michael Liu: and it's tied to resources, uh, we have not had the ability to repeat enough exactly what it is, uh, specifically or generally, that we wanted the people to respond to.

[00:27:34] Michael Liu: Uh, repetition, uh, maybe simplistic, but both of you are involved in in uh marketing and and uh various kinds of communications, it's effective if you have the chance to repeat it and so that people can can retain it and understand it.

[00:28:00] Chuck Freedman: Uh, given that Hawaii is purported to be one of the highest tax states uh in the United States, when you take property taxes and uh your your state income taxes and uh your GET tax and so forth and so if so and in consideration. Um, and people are concerned about the cost of living in Hawaii and taxes and yet, the Republicans year after year after year, uh very clearly state their intention to uh to um delete the tax on food and uh medical care. Uh we are the only state in the country other than New Mexico um that charges a tax on medical care. Uh we are one of several states that charge a tax

[00:28:52] Chuck Freedman: on food and most of those states charge it on what would be called luxury food items, not not like milk and eggs and bread and so forth and rice.

[00:28:52] Chuck Freedman: Um, and yet that that would represent a very, very real savings to the individual. It's a very clear-cut issue. It's not cloudy or confused or anything else. And and yet that message never is although we repeat it and repeat it and repeat it, the the ultimate um uh goal or accomplishment of what that would mean to a family of four or two or even one person in Hawaii, never seems to strike home. And so again, it's is it the delivery of the message? Is it the message itself when the rest of the country abhors those taxes and in fact doesn't have them and Hawaii accepts them and doesn't seem to uh uh find a need

[00:29:34] Chuck Freedman: to really come out with a rallying cry to vote for Republicans to get rid of them.

[00:29:34] Jane Tatibouet: We've got James on the line from Kaneohe. James, good morning.

[00:29:36] Caller: Good morning. Uh thank you for this wonderful program. Um, I I am [unintelligible — audio glitch] lifelong Democrat, though I have many sympathies with the uh Republican Party and many of their planks in the platform. But one of the things that I've noticed over the years is the lack of a personal connection, if you would. Um, this past election I got several pieces of mail from people that I know who asked me to vote Democrat. I did not get a single piece from any Republican that I know. And I think that lack of personal connection and that commitment we have between each other reflects how we do business here in Hawaii. I'd like to hear

[00:30:19] Caller: a comment if I could.

[00:30:19] Jane Tatibouet: That's very cards have been used, probably the Mesozoic age here in Hawaii and and in which an individual goes down to headquarters and fills in some cards and sends them to their friends and then encourages them [unintelligible — audio glitch] vote for a particular candidate they like and it is a it is a basic democratic machine tool. Mike, what do you think? Is there something depersonalized about the Republican effort? Is is is that part of the problem? I think this caller has a good point.

[00:31:22] Michael Liu: Well, I think it's one of the hurdles we we have to overcome. I think it's it's there. I think part of the problem is a lot of people who do support us, who are part of Hawaii, who live their other lives, are afraid to publicly put their name to even a postcard uh say that they support uh X Republican. Uh that that is a a real concern. I have had over the years, and I've been in politics now a long time, uh and I use friend-to-friend cards. Um and and even after people have become comfortable with me and although I've been known for a long time, I still get folks who say, Mike, I support

[00:31:59] Michael Liu: you but gee I I really can't put my name to the card.

[00:31:59] Michael Liu: I'll verbally tell some friends or this or that, but I can't really go ahead and sign a letter.

[00:32:05] Chuck Freedman: Mike, um uh just to bring you up up to date, we call them people-to-people cards in the in the Republican Party. Yeah, mark it. And uh uh actually I I use them extensively in both of my campaigns for House and Senate. Um, our our candidates for the first time this year were trained to use them, and I used them very effectively in some of the districts. I'm sorry that in the caller's district um we obviously had someone who chose not to use them, but um they are becoming more and more prevalent and I think we'll see a lot more of them in the future. I feel very strongly uh that we have to reach out

[00:33:02] Chuck Freedman: and actually, I didn't copy in my own campaigns the friend-to-friend campaign, being a strong Republican, I never got one of those friend-to-friend cards over the years, and uh but I felt the need as a Republican and as a human being to reach out and touch people personally and individually, rather than just through mass mailings.

[00:33:02] Jane Tatibouet: James, before we before we hang up with you, are you a Democrat who crosses lines and do you feel do you are you the kind of person who's who's looking for an active Republican Party even though you vote Democrat and are Democrat?

[00:33:14] Caller: Um I don't know if I'm I'm looking so much as I haven't had a reason yet. See, our, at least my voting pattern is based on a personal commitment and I've never gotten the sense that the Republicans were able to network extensively enough or get down at a level close enough to people where it was that person's personal commitment that I was voting for.

[00:33:38] Jane Tatibouet: James, thank you very much. That's very helpful. Uh again, for uh you callers, you're listening to the Price of Paradise radio show and with us today are Jane Tatu and and Mike Liu, both the strong Republican leaders. Give us a call at 955-8821 if you have questions or comments about the future of the Republican Party here. Um Mike, I guess in a way, we we talked the first half hour about ideology and and what kind of ideologies are out there that might be attractive to people in Hawaii. And now we're starting to talk about about tactics. What what do you really think are who do you really think are going to be the the Republican

[00:34:22] Jane Tatibouet: leaders for the next couple of years that that pave the way for for more?

[00:34:22] Jane Tatibouet: Um I remember in the what I call the old days, you and Fred Hemmings really did as a one-two punch carry the banner for the for the Republican Party in the state legislature, and it's been a long time since we've seen that that level of strength, sort of the brains and the brawn that you two brought in. Fred I don't want to say you were the brawn, but uh, are we going to are we going to see some activity that that uh that catches people's fancy or is it just going to be sort of the same old lack of personal touch and and failure to to really hit on the key issues?

[00:34:55] Michael Liu: Well, I would I would never underestimate nor would I downplay the value of uh

[00:38:00] Jane Tatibouet: folks like Jean Ward and Cynthia Theelan, who I think have done an admirable job in in the state house of the past year. Uh, and I think they will continue to do so. I I think uh uh with all humbleness that the two people in this room are going to play a very key role uh in the next two and four years in helping to rebuild our party. Uh look toward the future. Uh, I think people are going to be surprised with Mary Ann Kusaka on Kauai. Uh, I was at a function uh a couple of evenings ago and a political pundit who is very entertaining, thought uh called her a six-week a kind of

[00:39:27] Jane Tatibouet: Republican. Uh, I think he's going to be very surprised, and I certainly uh, I think we all know that Linda Lingle on Maui, uh, will be a uh a growing voice of leadership uh, not only among the county mayors, uh but also um state wide as a leader. So, I think we have a strong nucleus of very forward-looking, uh uh a younger crew of of Republicans uh as a whole. Uh, and the public are it is just now becoming familiar. Although some of these names have been around, uh, I think the uh those who are who have carried uh very strongly, very effectively our party banner in the past, uh, um, you know, for for

[00:39:27] Jane Tatibouet: one reason or another, the they're they're not going to be there, and it's going to be a new crew that the media and others are going to be looking toward, and I think that's going to be refreshing to to the public.

[00:39:27] Caller: Jane, is there going to be a way to organize that? It seems to me that it it's true there have been strong Republican leaders here and there and certainly two mayors, uh you've had at least two mayors for on and off for some time. Um, but it just it it just hasn't seemed [unintelligible — audio glitch] gel as as a team or as a message. Is is that something that you can really work on over the next two years before the elections, or uh what are the plans?

[00:39:53] Chuck Freedman: Absolutely. Well, um perhaps not [unintelligible — audio glitch] order of priority, but um to answer your first question, as far as the uh the non-gelling so to speak, is I think that the party has been neglectful in not bringing its party leadership, and the party [unintelligible — audio glitch] the leadership consists of a state committee which is about 50 people, and somewhere between 40 and 50 people, and that committee uh represents all the Senate districts, that's one member from each Senate district, and it represents um the county uh chairman of of for each county, and it represents the uh um officers of that group. In other words, they are like the board of directors of

[00:40:43] Chuck Freedman: the Republican Party, and from them a a group of leaders is chosen who are the executive committee of the Republican Party.

[00:40:43] Chuck Freedman: Um, these people as a group, this this governing group, this board of directors, have really not been involved at all in the candidates in the past. I don't mean that they as individuals haven't supported them, but there's been no cross-pollination. They don't know who the candidates are and the candidates don't know who they are. And I think in order to get a singular singular and strong party message across, those two groups, first of all, have to know and relate to each other. As well as the elected officials, I might add. The elected officials also are not necessarily aware of their board of directors so to speak of the party. So that has to be a

[00:41:31] Chuck Freedman: firm foundation first. I mean, those two groups of people represent the party in the state, on behalf of all the members of the party. And and uh that strong foundation has to be built. That's answering that question first.

[00:41:31] Chuck Freedman: In addition to that, um as far as the mechanics of of growing the party and adding on to that strong foundation, uh we're doing, I had mentioned earlier in the show recruiting. Uh, we're recruiting um a tremendous number of 20 to 40 year olds, uh that is uh a a new generation. We find in many instances, as an example, um a young local boy of any ethnicity you might choose, and I could name several that I know personally, who have come forward and worked really hard for the Republican Party. They've either worked on a campaign, they've worked at our headquarters, they've worked, they've come forward and been willing to do anything. And anecdotally, they tell

[00:42:43] Chuck Freedman: me that they're the only one in their party that's a in their excuse me, family that's a Republican, but that they are the newer generation. They they've uh awakened as they went through school and graduated from high school and went on in some cases to college, in some cases not, and they've looked at the world around them and said, hey, this isn't what I want for myself and my family in the future. And uh they have bucked the uh uh traditions of their family and uh and are willing to and stand up for it in a very responsible way.

[00:42:43] Chuck Freedman: And I think that's very encouraging because I think that as they come along, they see that we do need two parties, and we do need to straighten out a lot of the problems in Hawaii. Uh, that is a group that therefore, um we feel very, very encouraged about because so many are just coming to us and then they bring others. And uh we we're growing that group, but we're also at the same time growing the activities appropriate for that group at a at at a cost and at a um a level of interest that would be of pleasure to them rather than older people who might enjoy sitting for a long evening over dinner listening

[00:43:18] Chuck Freedman: to somebody give a long speech.

[00:43:18] Chuck Freedman: Um, we are building our uh a goal of mine is to build our treasury to a point that as we get into the beginning of the election cycle by July of 96, um that we have uh a good minimum of $100,000 tucked away, um in order [unintelligible — audio glitch] rise to the need of all that goes on during the election cycle. Uh, we have um uh the need for a director of volunteers, which I'm going to start immediately in order to harness that whole group of people. And there's plenty for them to do, it's just that no one has ever given them the opportunity to do it. And as I'm sure you around this

[00:44:08] Chuck Freedman: table know, when a volunteer contributes his time or her time and labor to an organization or or an ideal, they're committed, they're on board.

[00:44:08] Chuck Freedman: So it is not only the help of what they do in fact do, which is very helpful, but but the psychological aspect of the fact that they now feel part of something special and in this case, it's the Republican Party. We're building on all fronts, we feel really good about it. Uh, we don't feel uh distressed uh by this last election. We, of course, are very, very sorry to lose Pat Saiki in the gubernatorial seat, but that race itself, as well as the races underlying that race, Orson Swindell's race, um, the uh, a race, the primary race between Stan Koki and Fred Hemmings, which was very difficult for the party because uh they're both wonderful,

[00:44:55] Chuck Freedman: good, solid candidates. Uh, but those races uh have produced a lot of enthusiastic people and and we're busy um um harvesting our assets right now.

[00:44:55] Jane Tatibouet: Sounds like some excitement there. We got Frank on the line from Honolulu. Good morning, Frank.

[00:44:59] Caller: Morning. I'm wondering if this is too naive a question, but maybe as a way of summary or if you want to dress it right now, why would people in Hawaii want to be a Republican? I know that we're here in Hawaii, it's almost like knee jerk response that people come out of the womb saying they're Democrats. So maybe you can talk about why people would consider, I mean, just the fact that we should have a two-party system here in Hawaii is a good reason, but it's not really enough, is it? Can you talk about that? I'll just hang off.

[00:45:38] Jane Tatibouet: Thank you very much, Frank. A good question. I guess in the end, why should somebody do it? Let's talk for a minute about what he said isn't reasoned enough. Uh, is is there something to be said about the need for a second party, because if you don't have a second party, you really don't have a first one. Uh there there their choice hasn't been defined because there are no alternatives. Let's start with that because I think that is an important issue, Mike. Well, I think Frank's question really illustrates [unintelligible — audio glitch] hurdle we have. Here we are have been talking for about the last 35, 40 minutes about various issues, strategy, issues, etc. But

[00:46:33] Jane Tatibouet: there's still this kind of visceral sense of why. And I think for so many years we have had a one-party state that uh at that really hasn't addressed [unintelligible — audio glitch] issues because that's what happens in a one-party state. You don't have to address the fundamental issues.

[00:46:33] Jane Tatibouet: You talk about personalities, you talk about your family, you talk about where you were born, but you have no need, there's no fear of of having to discuss uh [unintelligible — audio glitch] issues because you have no fear of being challenged on those issues. And as a politician then, why get into hot water and discuss substance when you can win on on platitudes. And I think Frank's question indicates then that uh we have to still break through, do a better job of of humanizing the everyday living problems that people have in this state. In paying their mortgages, paying their rent, uh figuring out child care, holding on to their job, that those problems are linked

[00:47:48] Jane Tatibouet: to a one-party state, to the democratic control over such a long time. Or if you have questions about integrity, if you have questions about uh where are we going for the future? Do we have a direction? Uh a one-party state um puts a soft veneer so that a two-party state Frank, uh being a Republican, uh really we want to repeat again, we want to bring down your taxes. Uh, we will cut the size of uh the state bureaucracy. Uh, we will bring home rule closer to the counties.

[00:47:48] Jane Tatibouet: The concern that you have probably about finances and people in your family, if not yourself, having to hang on to more than one job just to make ends meet, these are real human issues which Republicans would address uh if we were given the chance to lead. Uh and the fact that you, obviously, um like many others, um are having a hard time seeing the connection, uh really illustrates uh the problem of a one-party state. Those kinds of issues do not really get addressed on the legislative level. I guess the the tough question for a lot of people would be also, do I have something to lose by by becoming a Republican. You suggested earlier some

[00:48:41] Jane Tatibouet: people are actually afraid to to express themselves. I I guess I have trouble believing that myself, but but then again, um, generally speaking been a Democrat.

[00:48:41] Jane Tatibouet: Is it is it time for people to get angry? Is that what you're suggesting [unintelligible — audio glitch] is there really a way for folks to get involved?

[00:48:49] Chuck Freedman: Well, I think uh [unintelligible — audio glitch] both, Chuck. Uh, but it's it's really the our responsibility, Republicans responsibility, uh to to generate the the resources and message [unintelligible — audio glitch] the leaders who can articulate the the uh the need to do these things. Uh, uh, to to be mad is not enough. Uh, to get involved is important, but uh again those are easy things to say, easy things to do, but it takes plans, it takes an institution, and it takes leaders and commitment of time to make that happen.

[00:49:27] Jane Tatibouet: Has has the response to the the one-party state been to to do things like create a a nonpartisan type offices. You'll never have a Republican mayor the way the law reads now, you'll never have a Republican mayor or a Republican councilman in Honolulu because it seems like the response to to uh one partisanship has been to create offices for which there is no party requirement. Is that the direction that we're going in? And is that the responsibility [unintelligible — audio glitch] both parties to do something about?

[00:49:56] Chuck Freedman: Well, I I think it is. I think it's uh on on one level, I think it's important. On another level, I think uh we as party leaders have to take advantage of it. I think then we have to look at those who we know are Republicans to uh move into the nonpartisan races uh and be smart as to how to campaign. I think we can turn it into an advantage. I think a lot of people might be a little more willing to vote for someone who's been associated as a Republican, but now that the R is removed, they may be able to vote for them.

[00:50:24] Jane Tatibouet: We've got John from Waipahu on the line and reminder for the rest of you, 9558821 for your questions or comments. John, you're on the line.

[00:50:32] Michael Liu: Okay. I just got two two uh topics that I'd like to address. One, I think that uh Michael Leew was a little bit dishonest when he said that that uh we don't uh that we don't um that we do pay taxes on on medical and and food. Where in the our with our state tax system, and when we make out our income tax every every year, that that there's a form 858 and NH 58 for the medical expenses and the form N 311 where we get at least some of that back. So it's not as if we're totally being uh uh taxed on on our food and medical expenses. And the the other uh question

[00:51:40] Michael Liu: I have or other topic I want to address is that that in the 37th Representative district here, in which uh a candidate by the name of Sun Son ran uh in all the sign holding and the mail literature and everything else that came out in his behalf.

[00:51:40] Michael Liu: I mean, he was running against a strong candidate Nestor Garcia, but nowhere could I find that he advertised himself as Republican. The only way I ever found that out was in the voters pamphlet and and ultimately on the ballot in in election day. Uh just like your comment.

[00:51:54] Jane Tatibouet: Thank you, John.

[00:51:56] Chuck Freedman: Uh not going. Well, on the uh on the tax issue uh John, uh I think uh although Jane said that I agree with what she said and I agree with what you say, too. There certainly may be some ability to get that money back. Uh however, it's uh certainly after the fact number one and number two, not everybody can actually qualify for it. And number three, uh we still do have the the general excise tax uh [unintelligible — audio glitch] these on these items. Uh, on the Garcia and Sunson race and the issue generally of how do you campaign? Do do you advertise that you are Republican or not? Uh I think that gets down

[00:53:02] Chuck Freedman: to specific districts and strategies. It uh sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Uh, I don't think uh from a general tactical or strategic standpoint, uh we can dictate that.

[00:53:02] Chuck Freedman: It certainly does indicate that there are those who feel that it's it's a liability to run as a Republican perhaps. Uh, but on the other hand, uh there are also some who maybe who may view the fact that uh running in areas uh that are strongly traditionally democratic, you have a chance to win if people are looking you at you as quote the person and not the party per se. If the person is running on a Republican platform, I think that's the key.

[00:53:18] Jane Tatibouet: Well, it's in any event, uh it was very hard to discover whether he was Republican or not. And going back to the tax issue, it it's interesting that the people who do not qualify are generally tourists. And I'm talking about residents and most most people who who make out an income tax return in this state, they they are able to to fill out the 858 and N 311 forms. So I I think there's something a little disingenuous about this this idea [unintelligible — audio glitch] not paying uh uh medical and and or at least the food tax because John John, thank you very much and yeah, you you do have a point and it's been

[00:54:18] Jane Tatibouet: argued in the legislature quite a bit, the I I believe the estimate I heard is that through the visitor industry, there's about $20 million a year collected on on uh the food tax and if we eliminated that instead of using the credit system, we'd lose $20 million of of uh of revenue uh to people coming in from California as opposed to local taxpayers.

[00:54:18] Jane Tatibouet: So it is it's a tricky one and and thank you very much for your call. Okay, thank you very much for taking my call. Okay, bye-bye. What do we do about the future? How big an issue is this? Uh Jane, it's it's a good platform for you now, I think [unintelligible — audio glitch] talk to folks out there, not just people are currently Republicans, but those who are uh independents or or Democrats who are concerned and I guess I'd throw myself in that category with the need for for a vital two-party system. If somebody's out there listening, what what should be their next step?

[00:55:33] Chuck Freedman: I believe their next step should be to look very strongly at the issues and to look very strongly at what is being delivered to them by the people they elected in office this time. Um, I think they need to see uh a measure of what was told would happen versus what in reality will happen and of course much of that is yet to be seen. But I do believe that the um the Republican philosophy if and and desires for the citizens are far more fitting with what most citizens want than the Democratic right now. And I think that they have to be willing to uh uh consider these issues, to ask questions, to um stand

[00:56:09] Chuck Freedman: up and be counted for, whether they go to their uh you know church or or community meeting or whatever to ask some strong questions of of any Republicans that are there and get some direct straight answers.

[00:56:09] Chuck Freedman: Um, in the meantime, we have to be building the party and finding people who believe in these things and who are willing to stand up and be supported, which as I said is becoming greater and greater in number because of the frustration of the citizens. So for those who haven't reached the point of coming forward due to their frustrations, I think it uh some more education on their own part. Um we certainly can't educate all of them, but I think they can uh read the newspapers and watch the news [unintelligible — audio glitch] figure out what's happening. Follow these issues, follow these these um big um exposés, so to speak, that are done [unintelligible —

[00:56:28] Chuck Freedman: audio glitch] government waste or or illegal acts by people.

[00:56:28] Chuck Freedman: The Republicans are very very ethical people. I'm not saying uh we're perfect, I don't think there's a perfect person in the world, but I think uh I think that Republicans uh do stand for for a very ethical, honest approach to life. That is what we're all about, and uh we uh are not in a position of having to uh do um slightly um illegal things uh in order to win. outside the party has been that that what the party leaders have done in the past, at least for the key races, is sort of anointed before the primary the best contender. And there are those who argue that that's been a big mistake. That that in

[00:57:15] Chuck Freedman: the end it's it's forced some people out of the party.

[00:57:15] Chuck Freedman: It hasn't created lively primaries. It's created very quiet primaries. And and so there's only 45 days I think between the primary and the general, and that's really the period of time in which you see Republicans. Is it time for that to change? From a leadership standpoint, are you really going to be encouraging the widest tent you can under the ideology that you you described this morning and then saying, 'Come on, everybody, get in here and and run and may the best person win.' Is is that a leadership position you folks are really willing to take now?

[00:57:44] Jane Tatibouet: Well, Chuck, I think most of those comments, first of all, have come from those who are leading Democrats. So I know it's they like to say that, because then it contrasts from you know their own party. And and the honest thing about it is that the Democrats hate primaries as as much as anybody. I think our most highlighted situation was of course the gubernatorial campaign this past year and Frank had the chance to run in the Republican primary if he wanted to. Of course, he was charging that he was blocked out and somehow patent was anointed. The only anointment comes in the ballot box, and we have never said there shouldn't be primaries or this

[00:58:23] Jane Tatibouet: and the other things.

[00:58:23] Jane Tatibouet: I think it's a myth really, and a perception. But if it's there if it's there then I'm sure our party chair and those of us in other leadership positions will attempt along with other things to try and dispel that. But frankly, I think for us to dwell on that is a non-starter for us. We have other more more pressing issues that will be more effective in helping us in the longer run. So [unintelligible — audio glitch] the party primary issue, I I don't lose any sleep over it.

[00:58:54] Michael Liu: And I just would like to say the Democrats uh not to point fingers, but they do have a lot of primaries, too, and you don't hear about the other primary candidates running for the same race.

[00:59:04] Chuck Freedman: Oh, I think I would argue. I think that I think and I, well, one Mike said Democrats don't like primaries, either. I think he's probably right there. Nonetheless, they have them. The appearance is that they fight like Heckle and Jekyll and then they all make up, and it's it's news. And it does keep them uh it does keep them in the news for a longer period of time than Republicans normally are. It's to the benefit of the Republicans, I guess I'm suggesting to have some good, some good open fights uh in in the in the definition of the party through the primary process. And that hasn't happened much before perhaps because when it happens, there's

[00:59:46] Chuck Freedman: some it it it's not fun. They're the Robertson issue and those times when things got uncomfortable for people.

[00:59:46] Chuck Freedman: But isn't part I I guess I would argue with you Mike. I it is an appearance, but isn't it really important to send out a message that you want everybody who would fit under the rubric, the general Republican ideology to get in there and run and that that if there's been an appearance of an anointment, there won't be in the future because a good a good, healthy debate will help define the future of the party.

[01:00:09] Jane Tatibouet: I I wouldn't argue with you on that, Chuck, but I think you'd be hard pressed to really pinpoint some specific examples of where you've had a a pure anointment situation of really two viable Republicans wanting to run for the same office again other than the Psyche Fossy situation of recent memory. Um, where have there been the anointments? I I can't recall.

[01:00:31] Michael Liu: Nor I, and I just would like to point out that in this past year, I believe we had some 35 to 40 Republican primaries. Again, the media were looking towards the big ones and these never were mentioned. And we had some good fights going. Um, of course, I think the most conspicuous Republican primary was the Stan Koki Fred Hemmings primary. But uh we had some very strong primaries, uh the uh Kawana Nakoa Alcantara primary for the state house here. Um, we had some other uh all over the island, actually, and we lost some good people in the primary. Um um good people won the primary. But uh they were going hot and heavy and of

[01:01:15] Michael Liu: course as you say, that does carry on into the general campaign.

[01:01:15] Chuck Freedman: Okay. We've we've got a couple of important announcements to make. One of which is that next Sunday, the price of paradise [unintelligible — audio glitch] going to back off a bit and say Merry Christmas. And there'll be a Christmas music special on next week, so don't be listening for Randy Randy Roth or any of his designated hitters. We definitely like to to thank today Jane Tatiboet and Michael Liu for coming in and having a lively discussion about the the future of the Republican party. Merry Christmas, everybody.

[01:00:55] Jane Tatibouet: the Kowana Nikoa Alcantara primary for the state house here.

[01:01:01] Jane Tatibouet: We had some other all over the island, actually, and we lost some good people in the primary.

[01:01:06] Jane Tatibouet: Good people won the primary.

[01:01:09] Jane Tatibouet: But they were going hot and heavy, and of course, as you say, that does carry on into the general campaign.

[01:01:15] Chuck Freedman: Okay, we've got a couple of important announcements to make, one of which is that next Sunday, Price of Paradise is going to back off a bit and say Merry Christmas, and there'll be a Christmas music special on next week.

[01:01:27] Chuck Freedman: So don't be listening for Randy, Randy Roth or any of his designated hitters.

[01:01:30] Chuck Freedman: We definitely like to thank today Jane, Tatibuet and Michael Liu for coming in and having a lively discussion about the future of the Republican Party.

[01:01:39] Chuck Freedman: Merry Christmas, everybody.