Events of 1994 and Predictions for 1995
Price of Paradise · Hawaii Public Radio · aired 1995-01-01
Guests: Chuck Freedman (Vice President, Hawaiian Electric Company)
Duration: 1:07:58

[00:00:00] Randall Roth: Also, since this is the first day of 1995, we are inviting listeners to tell us their New Year's resolutions or to make a prediction for the coming year. Also, we are interested in hearing which event from 1994 will, in your opinion, have the most profound impact on the future of Hawaii. So there you have it. Give us a call at 955-8821 to share one or more of three things. A New Year's resolution, a prediction for 1995, or your entry for the event of 1994 that will affect us the most or the longest. Or just sit back and listen to the thoughts of others. The number to call is 955-8821. Our trusty producer, Susie Roth, will

[00:00:47] Randall Roth: take your call, and our technical wizard, Jeff Alardi, will have you on the air soon thereafter.

[00:00:47] Randall Roth: Neighbor Islanders, as usual, are invited to call collect. The number again, 955-8821. Well, Chuck, what do you think? Anything to say about 1994 or 1995? Well, Bud Smiser of the Star-Bulletin commented that 94 was an important year because of the citizen action. Pop 94 being part of that, it really made the year noteworthy from at least from a local standpoint and I'd agree with that. Real step forward and hopefully it'll trigger more action, more citizen action for more people. Looking ahead, 1995, I think I call it maybe moving from price of paradise to price of paradox. I kind of look at a paradoxical time. Politically we're very strongly democrat. The rest of the country is,

[00:01:39] Randall Roth: of course, has moved republican.

[00:01:39] Randall Roth: So I think that's a significant political paradox. I think that we have here the paradox increasing of Hawaii being such a wonderful place that everybody wants to come here and live here and as a result, it kind of becomes a worse place because we're so crowded and when you look at Honolulu and really the number of people that really seem to be meant to be holding, what there is today, we have a lot of conflict that has to do with just there being becoming the big city. And so I think the New Year's resolution out of all this for me would be that I need to myself be a more tolerant person, not just of

[00:02:27] Randall Roth: different groups and races and things, but ideas and diversity because I think the mainland, we're sort of a model.

[00:02:27] Randall Roth: They've got Rodney King asking how can we all get along and I think here in Hawaii we have been getting along but I think in 95 it's going to be tougher and I think everybody's going to have to to work at tolerance and work at understanding other guy's point of view. I got also say that last night I was down at First Night and it was wonderful to see something wholesome and good happen out of New Years and that that wonderful zoo of of humanity that we call Hawaii was all there. And maybe the most memorable thing was the karaoke as as people would get up and sing and just be really pretty awful. That

[00:03:10] Randall Roth: was my favorite.

[00:03:10] Randall Roth: Yeah, they would just sing and be pretty awful and then everybody would just applaud and yell for them. Why? Because they got up there. Yeah, the worse they were the more the crowd responded. Yeah, and you know, maybe 95 is the year to just get up there. Hey, I like that, I like that. You used the word paradox and in this morning's advertiser, the editorial talks about high hopes but diminished expectations. Does that describe 95 as you see it? I think so, from the standpoint of there being limited resources and it's not just the state budget, it's it's the land, it's space, it's room, you know? And I think that when you have [unintelligible —

[00:03:55] Randall Roth: audio glitch] kind of that kind of density and that kind of potential for conflict, it's going to make it hard on people.

[00:03:55] Randall Roth: I also think that John Nesbit wrote a book called The Global Paradox in which he has a sort of theory that [unintelligible — audio glitch] bigger that economies get and the more centralized power becomes, the more there are small organizations that that react to that and then and then you sort of have this power base, not a power base but power accruing in small groups and organizations. Here in Hawaii, I think it makes sense. I think you see neighborhood boards and individual citizen groups saying, 'Hey, you know we can take action into our hands.' It's interesting, the metaphor he uses is he talks about computers and he says that [unintelligible — audio glitch] centralized model

[00:04:51] Randall Roth: is the mainframe and as the mainframe builds up, and mainframe could be any oligarchy or any any big autocratic system, and as the mainframe builds up, then you get the PC, the personal computer, and that personal computer is small, it moves fast.

[00:04:51] Randall Roth: It can do things that the big system can't. And so the big thing gives the small thing power because the small thing has ways to move and things to do that the big thing can't do. And I think in a metaphorical sense, that explains where we are in 95 in the world and certainly here in Hawaii. As I listen to you, I can't help but think the big thing in Hawaii is government and it sounds as though there's a lot of pressure to cut back on government here in Hawaii and the new budget director, Earl Anzai, has been suggesting that maybe the warm body policy is going to end. What do you think of all

[00:05:29] Randall Roth: that?

[00:05:29] Randall Roth: I don't know what you think, I think what what I think Ben Cayetano, Governor Cayetano knows how to cut a budget. He's he's been there before with ways and means and I think with Earl Anzai as his key staff person that I think they're firing a volley right across the deck of government saying, 'We're here and we can do these things and there will be no sacred cows.' That's why I think immediately bringing up the warm body policy, which for forever in Hawaii has been kind of like commandment number one, 'Thou shalt not fire a warm body.' So it'll be interesting to see having fired the volley, what they actually plan to do and whether

[00:06:17] Randall Roth: they'll have the wherewithal not only to do it because I believe they will, but whether the legislature and the people will be willing to live with the implications of those cutbacks. That's the hard thing, that as you and I would call it, it's the tough choice.

[00:06:17] Randall Roth: It sounds sounds good to cut back and get leaner and more efficient and all that sort of thing but then you get down to the hard reality of a a human being who loses a job. Yeah, and a service that might not be supplied. One of the paradoxes in my life and I've spent a lot of time with the Office of Economic Opportunity back in the early days, the more we defined the the problems of poverty and found out what poverty was all about, what contributed to it, the more we realized that the problems weren't simple, they were many, and the more problems you sort of uncovered the more you the more you uncovered additional

[00:06:53] Randall Roth: problems.

[00:06:53] Randall Roth: So solving the problem became more complicated as you defined it because it was a lot more complex than you thought when you got in there. That's the way it is today when you look at the state budget and and the kind of things, problem, social problems that they're trying to tackle, you say to myself, 'My God, you know what don't we do? What do we cut? What, you know, what's really the priority when you have everything from drug abuse, to to family abuse, to AIDS in in our society?' And I think that we're going to see just how tough that is. In case you tuned in late, I'm Randy Roth. I'm here with Chuck Friedman.

[00:07:33] Randall Roth: Today is New Year's Day, 1995, and we want to hear your thoughts about the coming year as well as the one just ended.

[00:07:33] Randall Roth: The number to call is 955-8821. If you've got a New Year's resolution to share, or a prediction for 95, or if there's some event from 1994 that you think is going to impact us an awful lot in the short run, the long run, uh whatever here in Hawaii. The number again, 955-8821. How about you, Randy? You got any you got any interesting resolutions or predictions or things that stick in your mind? Well, you mentioned uh pop earlier and I've been trying to get a self study uh put together and and out on pop 94 and it's coming along slowly but I guess one resolution is to get that thing out. Uh the basic idea being

[00:08:24] Randall Roth: an awful lot of people invested time and some money into what we did and uh and I think they're going to want to know just how other people perceived all of that.

[00:08:24] Randall Roth: And I think too, it's an important uh process so that we have a roadmap in case somebody wants to do something like that in 96 or 98. They've got uh uh the benefit of our mistakes and a few things that we think we did right that they can uh uh try to learn from. Uh, as usual, and this has been my resolution for quite a few years now, I'm going to get organized uh during the coming year. And if you want a prediction of mine for the coming year, I'm not going to get any more organized than I've been. And finally and again, this is a perennial favorite, I'm going to learn how to turn

[00:08:56] Randall Roth: the computer on.

[00:08:56] Randall Roth: Uh but this year I'm really quite serious about that. I I truly am going to learn how to turn that thing on. And at a minimum, when my 8-year-old talks about video games and that sort of thing, I want to have some sense for what the heck's going on in that area. What about you? I think I I for 94, I think what was good out of 94, really good, was the the overall sense that people need to take more personal personal responsibility than they've been taking. And it was pop, it was it was Live Aloha, it was making an AUW marketing goal that that uh people said we would not be able to make

[00:09:37] Randall Roth: because the economy was so bad. I've been through a series of experiences in the last year where it sort of you can't do it kind of approach to things.

[00:09:37] Randall Roth: And I think when people buy in when there's a sense of ownership that, 'Hey, I can do something that will make a difference,' that people are willing to take more personal responsibility for their own actions and maybe even the actions of others than they have. And that's that's what 95 that's going to be the test. How does that relate to what you were saying earlier about the the mainframe and the PCs take over? Is this movement here in Hawaii toward getting individuals more involved and feeling more responsible, is that uh related? Yeah, I I think we're going to become an increasingly PC, personal computer kind of society where smaller groups are doing uh more things.

[00:10:13] Randall Roth: And and there's lots to be said about that that's very positive. The danger is that things become so splintered that there is no whole. So there's again the Yang and the Ying of it. Trying to encourage individual action or group action at localized levels and still kee keeping some sort of whole Hawaii and that's why you need movements like Live Aloha and and I guess in a way a legislature to to pull together um basic values that we can continue to operate from. But I believe those values are changing. I believe that people are going to have to reidentify what they are, see where the everybody's individual personal circle overlaps and go to that middle

[00:10:52] Randall Roth: where there's some common ground and go from there.

[00:10:52] Randall Roth: And and and encourage it and be more tolerant of the other guy or the other group's way at going at something. Don't take everything quite so adversarially just because it's different. And and I would hope you know, a guy like a guy like Mike Wilson running Department of Land and Natural Resources, some people see that as a paradox, I I guess I see it as a paradox, but it's an acceptable one to me that somebody whose background has been primarily environmental um now has uh the job of balancing environment um and and land use requirements. And and I think when you know, we'll step up the job and do it. And when you say uh

[00:11:33] Randall Roth: environmental, I I think what you're saying is he's been fighting those folks uh that he's now heading up.

[00:11:33] Randall Roth: Yeah, that that's exactly so. He he's he's uh been um the advocate for uh Sandy Beach and and all that kind of stuff and and a and somebody who's been seen as sort of one-sided on the issues. Uh getting a sign from Susie, what is this Live Aloha thing? Uh Live Aloha is it is I think a a case of something that happened without a particular plan. A bunch of people got together and said there's something missing out there in our society, what is it, and went through a a rather disorganized process where everybody who who was interested invited over a period of time to come and talk and came up basically with a notion

[00:12:25] Randall Roth: that that uh you you can take personal action that's uh styled to Hawaii um and for Hawaii, simple things like deciding to plant something or let somebody in during traffic or returning your shopping cart.

[00:12:25] Randall Roth: I mean everyday you can do at least one thing and and it's called Live Aloha and so you'll see those little bumper stickers on the back of cars and stuff that say Live Aloha. You know, you're seeing those a lot. You're seeing them, I think there's something there. I I think there's more to be done by Live Aloha, there's then the notion of Aloha Friday. Uh starting to sound like Robbie Alm here. He's the fellow who who poppa this whole thing. You know, people like to hear uh names I think associated with some of these things. Can you give us five or 10, and I know there was a larger group, but five or 10

[00:12:57] Randall Roth: of the people who were there at the beginning of this low Live Aloha thing. I know, Amy Agbayani.

[00:12:57] Randall Roth: Amy Agbayani was a came immediate immediately to mind. Um Robbie Alm, several uh politicians who did not want to be, you know, the political honchos, but I got to give them credit, Peter Apo and Mike McCartney and Randy Wassi come to mind immediately. Um good old George Mason from from PBN, uh Pacific Business News. Bruce Voss, I think. Bruce Voss, gee, you know, a budding attorney Bruce Voss was there. There there was [unintelligible — audio glitch] cast [unintelligible — audio glitch] dozens. I Barry Shane, no particular common bent except knowing that there was something that was missing. In fact, you say no particular common bent, the first time I sat in on one of their

[00:13:40] Randall Roth: meetings, I was struck by just how different uh they were from one another.

[00:13:40] Randall Roth: But knowing there was something not there. And and like I said the notion maybe that on Friday, which we used to, you know, in the past it's been wearing a Aloha shirt, you know? That's nice, in fact I I like to wear a Aloha shirts, but on Friday we ought to be doing something more. We ought to be practicing a deed, doing something that just in a common sense way uh recognizes the other person and does something for them. Uh and that we consciously try to do that on Friday. These acts of personal responsibility, I think, whether it's it's at the political level where you have a fellow like Governor Cayetano trying to do the

[00:14:21] Randall Roth: right thing um in balancing resources available with services needed, or whether it's just you doing that one thing that you haven't done before for somebody else.

[00:14:21] Randall Roth: And I would say the key to all that action, which I which I started off before talking about tolerance is this know is this idea of making a better stab at understanding the other guy's point of view. I I think we all got to work on that every day. I think we take it for granted in Hawaii because we've got it relatively speaking so good here, but it is a delicate thing and we need to we need to do more every day to make sure that we sustain it and grow it. Okay. Well, I want to come back to that word tolerance. Uh our producer has just flashed a sign at me that says uh

[00:15:00] Randall Roth: remind listeners that our phone lines are open. The number is 955-8821.

[00:15:00] Randall Roth: Uh even if you don't have a resolution or prediction to share, just call Susie up and say hi. Uh if nothing else, it'll keep her from flashing signs at us, Chuck. You've used the word tolerance uh three or four times and uh I know in in this morning's advertiser, they suggested that uh there are going to be some sensitive things on the horizon that they're going to have to be dealt with by our community. Certainly sovereignty is up there. Um same-sex marriage, I think uh we're probably going to see during 95 the actual issuance of um marriage certificates to same-sex couples and I think that's going to to um uh certainly be interesting to see

[00:15:42] Randall Roth: how folks from other states uh respond to that.

[00:15:42] Randall Roth: But tell me some some thoughts that you might have about uh uh specific issues in this tolerance area. Let's start with sovereignty. Well, I think sovereignty comes to mind quickly because it's it's what distinguishes Hawaii as a state from really any place else in America. Um it it's an issue that's separate and different and it's going to I think test [unintelligible — audio glitch] ability to be tolerant and [unintelligible — audio glitch] ironic element of it of that is that [unintelligible — audio glitch] group of people for whom we're going to have to show more understanding, educate ourselves if we're non-Hawaiian, educate ourselves as non-Hawaiians, is a group that's probably over over its culture and

[00:16:27] Randall Roth: and history been the most tolerant group in the world.

[00:16:27] Randall Roth: I just can't think of one that was more tolerant naturally. And and that's why um much of they they lost some of what they have. So now it's our it's the it's an opportunity for those of us who aren't Hawaiian to to take action, to better understand what the sovereignty issues are. I don't know what the conclusion to all this would be, and I'm not going to be like a politician and say since I'm not Hawaiian, it's not up to me to judge that. I think since I'm not Hawaiian but I live here, it is up to me to understand what the issues are and and to ultimately pick a position that I think is

[00:16:59] Randall Roth: reasonable.

[00:16:59] Randall Roth: What do you say to those folks who who listen to what you just said and said, 'That's right, Chuck, they were tolerant and they lost ground. Now you're asking everyone else to be tolerant. What are the implications in terms of losing something?' Is this a zero-sum game where uh whatever is gained by native Hawaiians in the sovereignty movement is going to be lost by others? I think when you talk about trying to make things right that it it isn't a zero loss. That is what we're all about. Uh is it a paradox? Yeah, there's another one, you know? Yes, it is. Will it be easy? No, but is it the right thing to do in

[00:17:45] Randall Roth: some in the most reasonable 1995 practical way? Absolutely.

[00:17:45] Randall Roth: And and education, understanding the other guy's point of view is important. I would say that same element is true for Hawaiians too, and and I know that Hawaiian leaders are uh trying to to um approach this as something which does not just affect Hawaiian people, to understand the point of view of non-Hawaiians. And you see lots of bold people [unintelligible — audio glitch] the Hawaiian movement um trying to do that. I think that's great and we got to figure out how to do that. I don't think this is just all about sovereignty though. This is all about overcrowding, this is all about densities, this is all about little islands uh getting too many people. All

[00:18:27] Randall Roth: right. Well, we've got uh a caller, Dorian, uh from Boston but living in Manoa. Dorian, you're on the air. Good morning.

[00:18:27] Chuck Freedman: Good morning. Happy New Year.

[00:18:29] Randall Roth: Happy New Year to you.

[00:18:30] Chuck Freedman: Yes, thank you very much. It would be a little happier if the bus system would have a few buses that would run later on in the evening. I think 9:00 to have the last bus run is is isn't very good. I mean, especially when the bus system is always touting how wonderful it is, and usually it is during the day, but come 8:30 and it turns into Brigadoon around here.

[00:18:54] Randall Roth: Yeah. You know, Dorian, what what really riles me is that the electricity keeps flickering. on and off. Do have you have you noticed that uh here no and I say that because uh Chuck Friedman has nothing to do with uh with the buses, but he's got something to do with the electrical company.

[00:19:10] Caller: Dorian, is it only run it tell us a little bit more, 8:30. It's it stopped last night or every night it stops at 8:30.

[00:19:16] Randall Roth: It stops it stops between 8:30 and 9:00. Now, if you happen to be down in the Ala Moana Center, there is no way to get home unless you jump on the last bus that says out of service, which I had to do the other evening, with a with a viable bus uh transfer in my hand and yelling and screaming and carrying on that I wanted to get a ride home.

[00:19:35] Caller: Dorean, you got to call the the city office of complaints because my knowledge of the bus system is that it works beyond that. But I think if you you not today, obviously, because there's nobody home at the city office of complaints, but I would suggest on Tuesday, you you specifically ask them what the situation is because [unintelligible — audio glitch] mean, I'm not an expert on city issues, but it it work [unintelligible — audio glitch] operates uh later than 8:30 and it should.

[00:19:56] Randall Roth: Yeah, it it that sounds unusual. Dorian, I I would second Chuck's suggestion. Give him a call.

[00:20:02] Caller: Well, that's what the supervisor told me to do because he said that I was not the first person to complain about it, nor was I the first person that he had to take home personally in his little van.

[00:20:11] Randall Roth: Well, you know, sometimes big changes uh result from from one person uh complaining about something or or one person at least making a suggestion, won't you give him a call, find out exactly what the situation is, and if as you described, the bus service completely ends at that time of the day, you might suggest that they at least have uh some sort of reduced uh schedule after that point in time.

[00:20:32] Caller: Yes, because it's very hard to to walk from any place down in the city up to Manoa. It's impossible.

[00:20:38] Randall Roth: Oh, absolutely. Okay. Well, thank you very much, Darian. Appreciate your call.

[00:20:42] Caller: Well, thank you for thanking me.

[00:20:43] Randall Roth: All right. Bye.

[00:20:44] Caller: Bye.

[00:20:45] Randall Roth: We have another caller on the line, Mary from Kaneohe. Mary, you're on the air.

[00:20:48] Caller: Good morning.

[00:20:49] Randall Roth: Good morning.

[00:20:50] Caller: Happy New Year, Mary.

[00:20:50] Randall Roth: Thank you. The same to you.

[00:20:52] Caller: I have a um a paradox. Also, I agree very strongly with something Mr. Friedman said and that is about the more we can get government out of our lives, the more responsibility we have to take, which is an important thing to do. But then I also the paradox is, are we going to be subject to this free for all fireworks thing that we like we had last night, that went on until 3:00 in the morning? And I know there's no way to monitor it, put by the police, so I

[00:21:21] Randall Roth: It it's absolutely amazing, isn't it, Mary? It is. I mean, people who haven't experienced uh a New Year's Eve in Hawaii, I think can't imagine just uh how much there is. Chuck, what are the answers? That's a good that's a good example of how um we got to be more understanding of other guy's point of view. Um fireworks because it's culturally a practice, sure, but the they people really ought to shut it off at a reasonable time [unintelligible — audio glitch] conduct it in a reasonable way even though uh even though the law may not require Forget exactly what [unintelligible — audio glitch] law says in terms of time limits. But well this is something

[00:22:23] Randall Roth: that individuals like you or me or Mary can't do is this the role of government and are we now talking about government getting involved? There you are. There you are. That's the paradox. And and I'm with you, Mary. I I used to live in the DMZ. The families that used to really pop have have moved out of my neighborhood. Plus we've got first night, my wife and I escaped down there now, as I said. Yeah, that's a wonderful thing.

[00:22:23] Caller: Yeah, but you're absolutely right. I mean, in a way in a very real way, that's the classic case of you know, Marilyn Bornhorse used to, I think it was Marilyn Bornhorse, might have been her her spouse, once said to me, we shouldn't pass any more new laws until we've used up the ones we've got. And and and some the reason that saying comes to me right now. I mean, I don't know what you can do to both allow people to practice their culture and yet put reasonable limits on this and and make it enforceable. Palolo, by the way, was burning last night. From our house, we could see the fire up there.

[00:22:54] Randall Roth: Oh, yeah. Sirens all night long.

[00:22:56] Caller: Yeah. And and so you know, you want people to to be responsible, but you want there to be reasonable control and that's where we have government and by golly, Mary, I don't have an answer either. You you you're you're shooting off some fireworks here.

[00:23:09] Randall Roth: You know, Mary, I I think the more we raise these issues and and uh listen to one another, there's there's got to be a best way to deal with it. It may not be a perfect way, but there's got to be a way that's better than other ways and I I appreciate your call and and raising the issue.

[00:23:24] Caller: Well, thank you for listening.

[00:23:25] Randall Roth: Thank you. Uh you know, Chuck, earlier we were talking about um uh Pop 94 and uh you brought up Live Alohan. We're telling the folks just a little bit about that. I thought what I'd do is mention a few other things that are going on right now and uh perhaps some of our listeners will either want to know more about some of them or or maybe uh be interested in in being a uh a participant. Uh Dolores Foley, who's a professor out at the University of Hawaii, she's going to be meeting in uh the next week or two with some folks who are real interested in working on what at Pop 94 we call our

[00:26:46] Randall Roth: accountability plan, where we're going to try to quote, hold uh the the victorious candidate for governor's feet to the fire and compare what was said during the campaign to what's going on during his administration. Uh Peter Adler and Sue Yum are talking very seriously about putting together a volume three to The Price of Paradise, and uh they've got some real good ideas about topics and process, but they're looking for some folks that are interested in uh spending a little bit of of time and talent in making that happen. Uh there was a a process some years ago, about 20 years ago called Hawaii 2000, where the community came together and tried to uh talk about

[00:26:46] Randall Roth: what was on the horizon 20 years down the road, and uh a lot of folks think that's uh worth repeating to have perhaps a a Hawaii 2020 or something like that and uh George Chaplin and Mildred Kosaki, a couple people who were active with Hawaii 2000, uh maybe if enough of us who are willing to put in a little bit of uh of time and and talent to to put it together, maybe they would help us with direction and inspiration. There's a fellow by the name of Andy Jacobs who's got uh something that I find just fascinating. He calls it the citizens wall, and uh it's a way of and and in a part, it

[00:26:46] Randall Roth: uses the computer, but it doesn't necessarily depend just on the computer. It's a way of the community engaging in a meaningful conversation about uh a lot of these issues that we're facing. Uh Dolores Foley again, Peter Adler again, and Dick Pratt from University of Hawaii have been working on something called the Hawaii Forum, and I know you've been uh uh a part of that where they get a a group of folks around a a big table and they have a hypothetical situation like a big company from Japan wants to develop the whole North shore and it's going to completely change the character of of that neighborhood, but it's going to provide jobs and uh they

[00:26:46] Randall Roth: talk about it and and try try to show through the process, just how community can deal with uh highly complex and emotionally charged issues in in a way that's uh constructive. Uh we've had folks all over town trying to somehow generate dialogue that is going to get uh our community a little bit more focused on just what it is that we want for a future and and how we can best get there. Uh the Hawaii Community Services Council is uh talking about a benchmarking uh process. And I think just about everybody who knows much about benchmarking thinks it's a great idea. The concern, of course, is that it takes resources to make it happen and

[00:26:46] Randall Roth: commitment to keep it going. And the folks at Hawaii Community Services Council um have all of that, but they need uh individuals to step forward and help them as well. So there are a lot of things going on out there and um hopefully uh we'll just see more and more of that individual initiative in 95. Well, we have a caller on the line, Frank from Honolulu. Frank, you're on the air.

[00:26:46] Chuck Freedman: Happy New Year. Happy New Year to you. Yeah, I'm thinking about the fireworks thing or any other issue that comes along and you mentioned that nice idea about the round table. How about having um maybe TV coverage or in the schools, of course, people sitting around talking about the solutions to these things and let's have prizes, contests and maybe a big box of uh a big fireworks. Have them have them come up with the solutions. Not in Mary's neighborhood though, Frank. Excuse me. Not in Mary's from Kani Owe's neighborhood. She told me. Why not? It's in the areas that they need to talk about it, you know. Have everybody come out and have a big

[00:38:00] Chuck Freedman: contest and the prizes would be um whatever. I think you're right. And and you know, maybe we'll put a couple things together that were said today, Chuck, you were talking about First night, and I think just about anybody who was down there was impressed by it. Uh maybe that's the the zone that people like uh Mary [unintelligible — audio glitch] I that are concerned about the noise and concerned about uh you know, the air pollution and all that sort of thing. Maybe that's the safe haven, the place you go for uh for comfort on New Year's Eve. everything to solve the problem. Make the the problem the solution. What do you think? I think I

[00:38:00] Chuck Freedman: think Frank's got I think Frank in a way I mean, it sounds very, you know, almost too positive and but I think it's it's doable. I think we if we define our communities and work But put it out on the table anyway and that's right. exposure. Have everybody talk about it [unintelligible — audio glitch] neutral way. Yeah. That's right. talk about it. We're not going to end up with a a worse approach and probably we're going to figure out something that's that's better than what we've been doing. And big incentive prizes. Oh, I like it. You know, Frank, uh I you you may be interested to know that that the price of Paradise books where

[00:38:00] Chuck Freedman: we've tried to generate dialogue about these various sensitive issues are uh are in the public high schools and in many of the the private high schools. Oh, let's hope they're reading it and sinking in. Well, and and uh looking at it critically really, um and talking about what's wrong with the chapters as well as what's right and uh getting involved in this educational process. On the surface, Randy, it looks like a gift to Hawaii what you've done. Thank you a lot. Well, thank you for your call, Frank. Aloha. Happy New Year. Well, Chuck, uh how about 1994 events that will have a lasting impact? Uh this morning's advertiser has a a long list and they

[00:38:00] Chuck Freedman: have their their 10 top news stories. Uh what's the one thing from 94 that that you think is going to have a lasting impact on the people of Hawaii? George Foreman at age 45 winning the heavyweight championship of the world. I mean, I'm not this gigantic boxing fan but But the fact that you're approximately 45, that's not 45 years old and and also overweight and and inclined to eat cheeseburgers. Uh for some reason that will stick in my mind. Uh

[00:38:00] Randall Roth: over time. Every, you know, you end up compromising here and compromising there because it something can't be bit, you know, there's a reason it can't be put there. It's a reason the school can't be put here. Yeah. XYZ. So you end up with X sub1 as a location and everybody kind of knows it's not a good place to build a school, but for one reason or another, it's it it's it creates the least conflict. But [unintelligible — audio glitch] need to somehow let people know why other locations that would appear to be better locations for some reason didn't get the nod.

[00:38:31] Caller: And well, yeah, that's right. And it's also possible in the end that that somebody just wasn't willing to take a tough enough stand on one of those better locations.

[00:38:38] Randall Roth: And that should be brought to light. That's right.

[00:38:40] Chuck Freedman: Well, how can we get the of this ratio of costs? I have watched in my lifetime many construction jobs, and this is the worst thing I've ever seen for moving Earth in relationship to the structure. Yeah, let me make that money is going to be spent on moving Earth.

[00:38:54] Randall Roth: Yeah. Yeah, let me offer two suggestions. One, you know, if you look in the phone book under State of Hawaii, there they have all of the legislators names and phone numbers and fax numbers. It's real easy to to communicate with them and and call up, you know, your representative and and ask them about this and and you know, insist upon a real specific answer. But the other one, and I'm curious whether Chuck would agree with this or not, but if I were you, I would call Mary Ann Higa, the state legislative auditor, whom if if we're looking for for a hero from 1994, there are some of us and I realize other people have a

[00:41:37] Randall Roth: different perspective, but there are some of us who feel uh that that woman, for better or worse, worse, has taken some real gutsy positions and has developed a real credibility. I think that people feel that if she takes a hard look at something, like whether this is the right site and how much this is costing, you know, per student or whatever it might build be that would be a meaningful um way of measuring this. Uh, Chuck, what do you think? Should Bill give her a call? I I don't know if it's too early for Marian, but [unintelligible — audio glitch] can't honestly answer that one. I would think that calling Marian He goes okay, but

[00:41:37] Randall Roth: I would get to the legislators and and probably I would call the Department of Accounting General Services along with that. I don't know if you'll be able to get through to Eugene Imay, but he's the guy holding the basket on all that right now. Uh he's the new director of Accounting and General Services. He he worked for a couple of years as the director of Budget and Finance, and before that, he was with the Department of Education. So he's the guy who's who's got who's going to face the dilemma of how to make better choices and keep costs down [unintelligible — audio glitch] the area of school construction. And he he he's sort of in

[00:41:37] Randall Roth: the That's right now. That's important. His name is Eugene uh IMAI. He is the new Comptroller, the new director of the State Department of Accounting and General Services. And he is a good guy with a a good background for all this. So I would I would also, you know, be inquiring of the Department of Accounting General Services and maybe a letter to Eugene Imay and [unintelligible — audio glitch] legislators at a minimum would be the best way to go. Sure, send Mary and here a copy but she she's not really going to tell you about you know, where She does a better job of defining the problems than than solving. Well and now that And

[00:41:37] Randall Roth: she does a darn good job of it. And she she is a hero from 94 and in the standpoint of of getting to the from the legislative standpoint, getting to the root of problems and being very articulate about it. Well, since you you didn't like that suggestion real well, Chuck, how about this one? How about if Bill also, in addition to Jeannie you My etc. Uh what about writing to the editor of a newspaper or or calling up your buddy Jerry Burse or whatever and seeing if the media can get involved. Does the media have a role in bringing to light these sorts of situations?

[00:41:37] Randall Roth: Absolutely, [unintelligible — audio glitch] the Maui news does a pretty good job of it. Uh so you you certainly certainly should start with his own his own local paper. And I don't know Bill, have you have you tried to talk to the papers at all about your concern? Yes, I was going to send someone up and didn't any do anything, and I was told and said, crossover between common ownership between Maui Land and Pine and the Maui News. This is Maui Land and Pine Land, you see. Well, we're back to the advertiser then, I guess [unintelligible — audio glitch] if if that's the concern. Well, Bill, we really appreciate your call. Um, happy New Year

[00:42:11] Randall Roth: to you.

[00:42:11] Chuck Freedman: Happy New Year. Take care.

[00:42:13] Randall Roth: You bet. And everybody else, in case you just joined us, I'm Randy Roth. I'm here with Chuck Friedman. Today is New Year's Day, 1995, and we want to hear your thoughts about the coming year, as well as the one just ended. Our number is 955-8821. Uh we'd like to hear your thoughts about any New Year's resolutions that you think are worth sharing, uh predictions for 1995 or if there's an event from 1994 that you think's going to impact the people of Hawaii an awful lot. Why, we'd like to hear your thoughts about that. Neighbor islanders are always invited to call collect. The number again is 955-8821. Uh, Chuck earlier you mentioned that Bud Smizer had

[00:43:43] Randall Roth: uh had told us what his New Year's resolution was. Uh, but have any thoughts about uh 1995 in terms of predictions or thoughts? Well, Bud, Bud can write a tough newspaper article, but he's a cream puff uh inside. He He just happens to be the nicest guy in the world. Yeah, he's he's actually a really a softy and I think it's time for us to tell everybody in Hawaii that fact. Uh, Bud's resolution is is to keep our eye on the goal of a better Hawaii and his prediction is that we're going to fumble, but but let's uh let's fumble forward. And I think what what in his own way uh Bud is saying is

[00:43:43] Randall Roth: let let's take action. You know, we let's define the problem as best we can and move and that's the kind of guy Bud is and I think that's the kind of society we're going to have to be.

[00:43:43] Randall Roth: And you've got a smile on your face because sometimes his uh columns are pretty hard hitting and I think people get the impression that maybe he's a a shrill sort of guy, and then you meet him and he's just the nicest fellow in the world. Yeah, he's not crusty old Bud Smizer now, that doesn't work.

[00:43:58] Chuck Freedman: Good morning. Good morning. Happy New Year. Happy New Year to you. I uh was away from my radio, but I thought I heard some mention of a of the population problem for the future.

[00:44:09] Randall Roth: Chuck Friedman mentioned that. I uh just want to mention that the Isle of Man, which is in the middle of the Irish Sea is a very beautifully located place and despite its northern location, it is in the Gulf Stream and has a subtropical climate and uh it's a very very attractive island, and the people have already become concerned about the possibility of overpopulation and have established a limit. Already have established a limit. Right. And uh uh I think it's 85,000. And just I just mention this to show that it is possible to do things like this. You know Bill, um currently it's it's not possible simply because it would violate the the US Constitution, but

[00:46:37] Randall Roth: a lot of people are saying they support some form of sovereignty because they think it's through sovereignty that we could somehow get the legal ability to limit uh population. Uh, Chuck, do you have any thoughts on that? No, I'm with Bill and and you. I mean, obviously to me densities population uh [unintelligible — audio glitch] really the issue of the future, how we deal with densities and there's only so much you can do to accommodate it, and then at some point you have to take a look at what you can do to limit Well, and you know, that that Let us let us not that the idea that being unconstitutional uh be a hindrance because

[00:46:37] Randall Roth: you we can always get uh We need to talk. We need to talk an amendment that will uh cover everything. No, I I think you're right. I think we need to talk about it even though currently we we can't legally do it. And also, I think Chuck just mentioned that uh there's the question of how we deal with uh increased population, Kim Lowry from uh out at UH uh he likes to say that we get too focused on on sheer numbers, you know, how many people can we handle. And uh I think he would like to have us talk a little bit better, a little bit more about how we can better deal with the

[00:46:37] Randall Roth: numbers that we have, plus any additional numbers we might get. In this regard, the issue of this decade is what really happens with the second city and and the sugar lands that that are are we're losing [unintelligible — audio glitch] Eva. Will the second city become a second city with business and a place for people to live and work, or will it just be a bedroom city. That's a big time issue, and I'll tell you, government can't solve it. It It it's going to take all kinds of action to do that. Okay. Bill, appreciate your call. We've Got I have one more thought to share with you. Okay, go ahead. Uh, the economy.

[00:46:37] Randall Roth: Yep. Uh I don't think it's ever it's ever going to be possible to get uh uh produce raised in any quantity on in the islands. But the Macadamia industry is something it seems to me very promising. Of course, as you know, the Macadamia nuts are extremely popular and the word is is spreading all around the world uh about the availability of these this wonderful food. Uh it it seems to me that this is would be [unintelligible — audio glitch] good a good angle to stress because it's it wouldn't require the day labor uh uh application that you have with with produce. You plant these these orchards of macadamia nut trees and they take care of

[00:47:30] Randall Roth: themselves pretty much.

[00:47:30] Randall Roth: Well, you you raise a, you know, a good topic and one that quite frankly, I've been wanting to focus on some Sunday morning on this show. And uh, you know, I think what we'll do, Bill, is we'll we'll put our heads together and figure out who the ideal guest might be so we can learn more about just what's involved in that activity and learn more about why there just hasn't naturally been more of it. And uh, it may be that that's the direction that we ought to be going. The real future of agriculture. There has been some expansion, of course, and and the growing of it, and it's but it's been on a sort of

[00:57:00] Randall Roth: a creeping basis, depending on certain uh land owners and Right. people who have become aware of the potential uh just by osmosis, so to speak. Well, you're right. And I I think what we're going to do sometime in the next month is we're going to get some experts who can answer our specific questions about why it hasn't taken off, what are the barriers, etc. I think that's a great suggestion. Bill, I appreciate your call. I haven't heard that there's any they're any natural enemies to the macadamia tree. Well, that's that's why we want to find out just um I'm a natural enemy. I'll eat those nuts as soon as they grow. Oh, there we go.

[00:57:00] Randall Roth: Well, I appreciate your call. We've got a couple people who've been waiting on the line. Thanks again, Bill. Okay. and uh happy new year to you all. Okay, thank you. Bye-bye. Uh, Charlotte from Hawaii Kai, you've been very patient. We appreciate that. Good morning. Aloha. Aloha. Happy New Year. And Aloha to the New Year. Yes. Uh, I think we have uh been forgetting our Aloha. I'm thinking of the roads that never met in the middle near the airport. I'm looking forward to all roads meeting in the middle. I'm looking forward to Kalani Anali being completed after the middle. Yeah. Charlotte, you have a knack for saying things in just the right way. Uh, Chuck, you

[00:57:00] Randall Roth: don't live out in Hawaii Kai, but uh what do you think? It's been a long time that they've been working on that. It sure has, isn't it? Here we are with conflict of use, and when you listen to the Department of Transportation try to explain the things that have slowed them down, and I only heard it on TV. You hear about these little places that that uh end up costing them six months because they have to make agreements that that didn't work out the way they were supposed to or build a wall that they weren't I'm not making I'm not making excuses for DOT. Or one homeowner gets a little bit upset just because their

[00:57:00] Randall Roth: house is being cut into or falling off a hill or whatever. There you go. That could be a good reason. But I I think it, again, this this the case of densities, conflict of use, [unintelligible — audio glitch] my prayer is that when that when [unintelligible — audio glitch] job is done, the traffic really does flow better. Hm. I You know, when you talked about turning on your uh computer and learning how to turn it on, I want you to turn it off forever. With all the computers and all the internets, we've lost something. [unintelligible — audio glitch] think you're right, Charlotte, and uh I think that's what's been kind of keeping me from turning

[00:57:00] Randall Roth: the darn thing on, but that if it's a tool, if we constantly remember that it's just a tool, that that we're the ones who have to think and feel and trust and tolerate, etc., and that damn computer is nothing but a tool, then I think we're okay, Charlotte. What do you think? Uh uh hopefully so. And whatever you do, don't invite Mr. Murdoch. He might wipe out your section of the world too. You know, it's it's interesting uh Charlotte, and I don't know if he'll come on the show, but uh my inclination is to uh is to get people like that to start talking because even if we disagree with every single thing that a

[00:57:00] Randall Roth: person says, uh it helps us to know what what's on that person's mind, don't you think? Yes. And blessings on our state house for the future. May it be completed in the next six years. Charlotte, you have such a knack. Thank you. Uh, Lucille from Waikiki, you've been waiting patiently. Good morning. Well, there was a discussion about the macadamia nuts. Right. They're a very it takes seven years for a tree to produce. They're very subject to a lot of diseases. And another thing is that they can't compete here with Australia. Australia has flooded the world with cheap cheap macadamia nuts. Well, I knew there was some explanation because uh they're not as good, but they're

[00:57:00] Randall Roth: bought. Yeah, and I bought shares in Macadamia nuts at $10.50. Ah, so that's how you've been keeping up with all of this. Now $2. Yeah. Well, I'll tell you what, Lucille, we're we're definitely going to have a show and and we're going to find out just what kind of agriculture are we likely to see in in the near future. Uh, what has a long-term future here in Hawaii and You know, accounting the future. Excuse me. I don't know whether the uh papers have ever promote this because I don't always read the papers. Uh I remember going up to uh Mount Tantalus and there were people uh authors, uh sociologists, psychologists from all over the world

[00:57:00] Randall Roth: discussing Hawaii the year 2000. You know, we mentioned that earlier on the show. Oh, you did? And there are group of people No, no. Thank you. There are group of people who are saying it's time to have Hawaii 2020 to do the same thing that was done 20 years ago, talking about what sort of future we wanted to do it again. And uh and I think we we need to do that because so many things have changed over the last 20 years and if for no other reason, as Mr. Friedman here would suggest, we as individuals need to feel more responsibility to get more involved in the process of thinking about the possibilities. Well, we

[00:57:00] Randall Roth: never learn from other cities. Like for Singapore, uh if you want to drive your car downtown, and to the business section, you pay a huge A huge amount. additional fee. Yeah. Then you pay a fee if you do take it down. And that's something uh that we could constitutionally do as opposed to uh at least currently limiting population. Well, Lucille, I really appreciate your your thoughts a lot. They've been very interesting. I've got somebody who's been waiting for a while, so I'm going to have to move on to him. But you have a happy New Year, Lucille. Thank you. Good morning, Larry from Hawaii Kai. Good morning. Good morning, and a happy New Year to

[00:57:00] Randall Roth: you. Happy New Year to you, too. Uh, you know, talking about the issue of sovereignty, which is a big issue. Now, many of us look at that [unintelligible — audio glitch] it, as it not from the idealistic viewpoint, but a sort of a land grab. Uh, looking at a lot lot of the people who are who are going into the into the sovereignty movement out of the have and the have nots, uh in the what we call tonail Hawaiians. You know what a tonail Hawaiian is, do you not? I don't. Tell me. A tonail Hawaiian is a Hawaiian who has all is a person who has all his Hawaiian in his little toe. Okay. As

[00:57:00] Randall Roth: as against the Hawaiian who is say 50% Hawaiian. A looking looking at the Hawaiians who are now in the movement and are in are going for this uh land grab, sovereignty, they're talking about a nation within a nation, they're talking about uh seceding from the nation. Right. And you talk about defining the community. Yeah. I think in some way, the Hawaiian community should be identified. What is a Hawaiian community? For instance, uh we see we have Bishop Estate with Kamehameha Schools, and they have a Hawaiian community up there. They have the billions of dollars, they have their own school, uh they have made it so that only the Hawaiians who can qualify go to the

[00:57:00] Randall Roth: school, as against those Hawaiians who can't. But going back to the sovereignty movement, what is it that they really want? They want to grab they want they want everything, they want to have their own state, they want to have the like Bumpy uh Kanakheli, it is down in uh uh in uh uh where is the outside of of Hawaii Kai there? Out toward Waymana. Yeah, Waymana. But well, clearly clearly the Hawaiian community, whatever that means and that's part of of this discussion, um is not speaking with one voice right now. And um just as the folks who who aren't part of the Hawaiian community aren't speaking with one voice, but a lot of them are

[00:57:00] Randall Roth: speaking, Chuck. No, and Larry's raised a lot of points here. one one of them is what's the resource base that you're talking about and and, you know, you're right. Bishop estate does constitute something of a resource base. OHA is something of a resource base, Hawaiian homes, you can go down the line. But what what is the resource base we're talking about um for the the Hawaiian community and then what is the Hawaiian community that we're defining to utilize that resource base? This is a tricky this tricky water. I tell you what, we need to, we've only got about five minutes to go and we need to resist making that last five minutes a a mini

[00:57:00] Randall Roth: show on sovereignty because as as Larry, as you have raised, there are some issues that really need to be dealt with in in some detail, and we're going to have For 1995, Randy, I think everybody ought to commit, as as clearly Larry has, to educating themselves on on what these questions are all about. I think that's the the point of the discussion this morning. And Larry, if you would stay on the line and give our producer Suzy uh your suggestions as to those folks that you think most articulately uh express your point of view and whether your own name is on the list or not, that's up to you. But if you'll leave those names

[00:57:00] Randall Roth: with her.

[00:57:00] Randall Roth: We want to have some folks on every side of this sovereignty issue. We're going to to have a number of shows during 95 on the topic. It's a very important one and so if you'd share your thoughts on that with her, I'd very much appreciate it.

[00:57:13] Chuck Freedman: Carry on.

[00:57:14] Randall Roth: Thank you much.

[00:57:14] Chuck Freedman: You bet.

[00:57:15] Randall Roth: All right Chuck, well we're kind of getting down to the to the bottom here of our hour. Peter Adler is somebody that also shared with us some of his thoughts. I I asked Peter if he could give us maybe a a less than 100% serious New Year's resolution. What's Peter going to do better this coming year?

[00:57:35] Chuck Freedman: I don't know. I think Peter needs another long vacation. I know he was down in some river floating on some river. His New Year's resolution is to follow May West's advice. Whenever I am forced to make a choice between two evils, I intend to take the one I never tried before. And if you can hear that Mae West voice, you know, come up and see me sometime. It it it kind of it it kind of rings true. Um he he also says his 9 to 5 prediction is global warming and the reemergence of dinosaurs on Friday, October 13th, 1995. I think it's great that Peter's got it got it nailed down to the day. Uh

[00:58:25] Chuck Freedman: and then his comment on the most important event in 1994, the emergence of Beavis and Butt-Head as a role model for all political candidates in the US at exactly the same time. I think that's that's humorous cynicism on the part of Peter.

[00:58:25] Randall Roth: I I I've got a feeling if we'd think about that one for a while, it might be quite profound. Actually, Beavis and Butt-Head scare the bejeezus out of me. Um that level of cynicism is something [unintelligible — audio glitch] what's called kish, [unintelligible — audio glitch] sort of middle class culture. That seeing that all the time, I watched the Roseanne show for the first time the other day and I I'm kind of appalled at, you know, I I don't want to censor television, but

[00:58:52] Chuck Freedman: You're you're sounding more and more like George Will all the time.

[00:58:54] Randall Roth: Yeah, I am. I I well, everybody knows for a guy that that's normally associated with Democrats of becoming increasingly Republican anyway, that that this this level of cynicism is is not good. We got to fight it. Um, no less a person than Holli Kuh Drake reminded me not long ago, uh that what people refer to as the Aloha spirit by traditional Hawaiian standards, it's not a spirit. It doesn't float around in the air and just capture you one day. It is a gift. It is something that is given. It is something that is received. If you're not on one end of it or the other, if you're not perpetuating it or receiving it, it isn't

[00:59:34] Randall Roth: there.

[00:59:34] Randall Roth: And maybe in the end, uh that's the thing we all got to remember as we move forward.

[00:59:38] Chuck Freedman: You know, you mentioned uh earlier that that Bud Smeiser uh despite the sharpness of his uh his pencil was such a nice guy. In fact, you called him a softy. I'm looking here at uh a fellow by the name of Chuck Friedman's 1995 predictions and he's really gone out on a limb here. and this going to be terribly uh unpopular here in Hawaii, but he's suggesting that the Bows are going to go to the NCAA men's basketball tournament. What do you think, Chuck? Go Bows.

[01:00:07] Randall Roth: Go Bows. Uh, you know, it's it's wonderful to see. I know this very controversial arena and everything and for all the controversy, it's wonderful to see it filled up and people feeling good about about a team, and good old Kalea McGee, the local boy, who can pass like nobody ever passed before. I think that's great stuff.

[01:00:24] Chuck Freedman: Yeah, I I don't think there's controversy right now. I mean uh with the Bows playing as well as they are, it's pretty popular position. Uh we're down to the last minute or so. Uh any thoughts you'd like to share with our listeners about uh either 94 or 95?

[01:00:41] Randall Roth: I think we've covered it today. I I think that that it is a paradox, that there is less resources, it seems in terms of of government, [unintelligible — audio glitch] yet more need. And so if there's less governmental resource, there has to be something else that comes along and that's a human resource that's outside the governmental vein. And we've we've got to adjust ourselves and and work on that, and hope that uh that Governor Cayetano and the legislature can make good decisions with our guidance about what what where the money should go and where it shouldn't. And then when when there isn't money to do something important, a call to action to get society to

[01:01:16] Randall Roth: move on it.

[01:01:16] Randall Roth: And whether it's in their neighborhood or whether it's through organizations that are statewide, uh is is uh is to be seen. But the fact is that people are going to have to take individual action to make up for the the many, many things that government can't do. Remember that most popular question in in pop 94 uh when we went around to the communities, the one that kept coming up was asking the politicians areas that they think that government shouldn't be doing something on. And I think that we've got to figure out what those are and on the important ones, make sure that society [unintelligible — audio glitch] stepping up to plate and handling those.

[01:01:49] Chuck Freedman: And maybe we're back to uh your word paradox in that we need to individually take more responsibility and yet we need to be part of a community and act as a community and and be tolerant of one another. Well, thank you all for listening. Uh this is the Price of Paradise Radio Show. Today's show was produced by Susie Roth, with help on the phones from my father, Walter Roth, and technical assistance from Jeff Ilardi. We hope you'll tune in next Sunday at 7:30 to hear the thoughts of a newsmaker as he or she responds to questions and comments from our callers. We're also always interested in your suggestions for future shows. You've been listening to

[01:02:29] Chuck Freedman: the Price of Paradise Radio Show. Happy New Year.

[01:02:29] Randall Roth: Happy New Year.

[01:02:30] Chuck Freedman: And Aloha.

[01:02:10] Randall Roth: and technical assistance from Jeff Hilardy.

[01:02:13] Randall Roth: We hope you'll tune in next Sunday at 7:30 to hear the thoughts of a newsmaker as he or she responds to questions and comments from our callers.

[01:02:21] Randall Roth: We're also always interested in your suggestions for future shows.

[01:02:25] Randall Roth: You've been listening to The Price of Paradise Radio Show. Happy New Year.

[01:02:29] Chuck Freedman: Happy New Year.

[01:02:30] Randall Roth: and Aloha.