Conversation with Mary George
Price of Paradise · Hawaii Public Radio · aired 1995-01-08
Guests: Mary George (retired State Senator)
Duration: 1:09:01

[00:00:00] Randall Roth: My guest today is Mary George and as always, listeners are invited to join in our conversation by calling 955-8821. Mary George recently retired from what the Star Bulletin called a remarkable quarter-century of public service. Specifically, Mary was the first woman elected to the Honolulu City Council in 1968, and since 1974 has been a member of the State Senate. She won every bid for re-election, despite very little campaigning. She is perhaps best known as quote, the loyal opposition, or as described by an advertiser editorial, the only voice in the legislature to question the steamroller work of the dominant Democrats. Richard Brea of the Star Bulletin put it this way: I can imagine the Senate without her,

[00:00:52] Randall Roth: and I know I'm not going to like it one bit.

[00:00:52] Randall Roth: Democracy was invented and is still around because of the faith we have and the honesty, plain talk, and common sense of people like Mary George. Mary got a standing ovation on opening day in 1992, when she spoke of the growing mood of discontent across the country. In Mary's words, quote, we should look in the mirror each morning. Now she's talking to members of the legislature, we should look in the mirror each morning and remind ourselves that we were elected, not anointed, and that we're here to do the people's business. Mary, good morning and welcome to the Price of Paradise Radio Show.

[00:01:28] Mary George: Good morning, Randy.

[00:01:29] Randall Roth: Well, the big question, why retire?

[00:01:33] Mary George: Oh, it's time. I think some something, something tells you when it's time. You know, when when I counted my career in decades, that was bad enough. But when I woke up and and realized it was more in a quarter century, I decided, now it's time.

[00:01:48] Randall Roth: Mary, you're known for a number of things and I think one of the the first words that comes to mind when people hear the name Mary George is Republican. How does it feel to be a Republican in a a state that's been dominated by the Democratic Party for a number of years, more than a quarter of a century?

[00:02:08] Mary George: How's that feel? You know, that that's curious. It kind of takes me back to the beginning. It initially, when I was in office, the word that would have come to people's minds, I think is woman. Um, I was uh so I'm accustomed in many ways to being a part of a of a distinguished minority. Um, I was uh I think I felt more in the my in the minority initially as a woman in politics and um increasingly, of course, there are there lots and lots of women, but not lots and lots of Republicans at least in this state.

[00:02:43] Randall Roth: It seems as though there are fewer Republicans uh in elected offices.

[00:02:47] Mary George: Yeah, people occasionally do me the uh um the rather astonishing favor of calling me a role model. And if that's the case, I haven't been a very good one because I haven't been able to uh be the Pied Piper for electing very many Republicans.

[00:03:04] Randall Roth: Why is that? Why have Republicans not fared better in Hawaii?

[00:03:09] Mary George: It's circular in a way, Randy. It's a a little little difficult to describe. As fewer are elected, fewer want to stand as Republicans for election. So you have um a smaller pool of people who are willing to do it and therefore, you get elect fewer and so on. It just uh it's a diminishing circle. I think it it re to turn it around requires the the same kind of revolutionary tactic that um uh was so successfully used last year on the mainland, and we haven't been able to mount anything like that here.

[00:03:47] Randall Roth: Now tell me specifically, what does that mean a revolutionary tactic? What specific tactic are you referring to?

[00:03:55] Mary George: It's uh if I if I could plot it, um I would. I don't know what it will take, Randy. That's uh um obviously uh anything that we've done so far has not been has not been successful. I think the key to the uh um what's referred to as the Gingrich victory has been uh um been described as a a long process of of winning people over to to acting in concert with you over a fairly long period of time. Um, didn't happen overnight, but uh getting the agreement that that uh culminated in uh the very public contract with America seems to have captured the imagination of people on the mainland. [unintelligible — audio glitch] don't

[00:04:48] Mary George: know Randy, I don't know what it will take.

[00:04:48] Randall Roth: Why hasn't that captured the imagination of people in Hawaii?

[00:04:52] Mary George: The conventional wisdom here is that we uh we lag behind the mainland. Some some people say, well, it takes six months for anything to reach Hawaii from the mainland. By the way, my voice, I I'm not normally this baritone. I I brought a cold with me from the mainland, and I hope it isn't uh leaking out over the airwaves. I don't want to infect anyone. or you Randy. Um, I don't know, I don't know.

[00:05:23] Randall Roth: What what's at the core, uh the philosophical core of the Republican Party, as you see it?

[00:05:30] Mary George: Um, let let me uh let me get anecdotal with this. That's sometimes the best way to explain things. I had a an interesting conversation with um with my hairdresser, who's a very canny woman. I enjoy talking with her, but we don't usually talk politics and this last week she said, um, um, you know, I don't um I'm not either a Republican or a Democrat. I vote for the guy who can get the job done and it like a big light bulb going off over my head, I realized that um we're paying more attention to uh the person who can get the job done instead of what we ought to be doing to is which is

[00:06:17] Mary George: draw the line on what is the job, what should government do and that's what divides the the sheep and the goats, the Republicans and the Democrats, I think.

[00:06:17] Randall Roth: Well, what would the uh Republican answer to that question be? What is the role of government?

[00:06:21] Mary George: That uh that's what um uh Gingrich is pointing out and I think doing it very well. I some of his rhetoric uh gets a little bit beyond me and some of the ways in which he says things I I find some problem with, but basically what um what he and the newly elected Republican majorities in both houses on the Hill talk about is a smaller government, not just leaner and meaner, but but smaller, uh performing fewer functions, returning functions um to the um you know the Lincolnean concept that um the government's proper role is to do for the people only those things which they cannot do for themselves. That's the core of Republicanism and we

[00:07:08] Mary George: haven't said it often enough.

[00:07:08] Randall Roth: Wouldn't the Democrats say something similar? They would just go on to say that what we're doing for people are things that people can't do for themselves, that government has to do or it won't get done.

[00:07:18] Mary George: No, I don't I don't think that's true at all. And I think the the difference is the concept that government um knows better how to um uh direct your money to do those things than you do yourself.

[00:07:33] Randall Roth: So you would say the Republicans have more faith in the decisions that would be made by individuals, as opposed to government knowing better?

[00:07:41] Mary George: [unintelligible — audio glitch]

[00:07:43] Randall Roth: Now, you mentioned a name, Gingrich, and and I confess, I don't know much about him at all. I just haven't paid much attention to his career until very recently.

[00:07:53] Mary George: That's true of a lot of people. He came like a like a uh thunderclap as this stranger out of nowhere. It's not true, you know. He's been around.

[00:08:02] Randall Roth: Well, the thing that amazes me is that I read a a series uh I think there were three articles in the advertiser a week or two ago and for someone like me, who has not followed that fellow's career, based solely on those articles, I have the impression that he's uh the devil himself. Uh the article made it sound as though he was a a terrible, terrible person and I was reading as I was reading them, I was saying to myself, how could the people of Georgia keep re-electing this person? How could the members of of Congress elect this person their speaker? Um perhaps there's more to this fellow than what I read in in those

[00:08:42] Randall Roth: uh reports.

[00:08:42] Mary George: Did you buy have you by any chance um taken a good look at the cartoons of Gingrich that have been in the newspaper over the last um six months?

[00:09:02] Randall Roth: I have, yeah, he's the the Grinch that stole Christmas and all sorts of things.

[00:09:07] Mary George: Absolutely. Why is that? [unintelligible — audio glitch] think that the the liberal media do they have a bias and is that what's going on or is it just they're having fun with a new person on the scene? Well, I think they're having fun. Of course, it's it's easier to uh be negative about somebody than it is to find positive things. Of course, I'm the I'm the present exception, I guess. Um I I think um let me get anecdotal again. When we still had um a closed primary and you had to record your party preference in the state, um this was in my early days in politic and I was puzzled and and not terribly happy

[00:09:43] Mary George: with what I perceived to be a liberal bias on the part of the uh of the media.

[00:09:43] Mary George: So um um I carefully researched the uh political affiliation of as many people who were affiliated with the media as I could. And I was um fascinated and somewhat appalled to find out that um there were two people who were registered as Republicans. All the rest were registered as Democrats, and this is this is not just a dozen people. This is lots and lots of people. One of them was Bob Sevey, which is interesting. I've forgotten who the other one was.

[00:10:19] Randall Roth: Why would liberal people be drawn to that profession or does that profession somehow make people liberal?

[00:10:25] Mary George: I haven't the faintest idea. That's the uh um that might be an interesting topic for an academic research paper, you know. What it what it does which is the carton, which is the horse or the chicken, which is the egg. I don't know.

[00:10:39] Randall Roth: Okay. Uh you're listening to the Price of Paradise Radio Show. I'm Randy Roth, and I'm here with our guest Mary George. Mary George has uh just retired from a distinguished career as a public servant and she's here to uh answer your questions or respond to your comments. Our phone number is 955-8821. And as always, neighbor Islanders are invited to call collect. The number again, 955-8821. Mary, one of the things that that I personally think about whenever I uh see you or or hear your name, is a letter that you wrote some years ago when uh the state legislature was debating the mandatory helmet law. And as I recall at that point in time, certainly the

[00:11:29] Randall Roth: popular position was to be in favor of uh of a mandatory helmet law.

[00:11:29] Randall Roth: I think the um uh the spin that the media was putting on it was that it was awfully expensive for society to take care of people who would be in accidents and who would be injured much more uh than otherwise would have been the case because uh uh they weren't wearing a helmet. And you wrote a letter that I thought was uh not just very well written but uh very clever from a conceptual standpoint. Can you tell us just a little bit about that?

[00:11:55] Mary George: Randy, I couldn't possibly quote it. I that piece of prose but you probably remember it better than I do. I think the uh where I was coming from at that point is um uh that increasingly um through the actions of government, we are being [unintelligible — audio glitch] uh um personal capability of taking risks, taking chances is being gradually removed from us and I was carrying it through to um I suppose were a ridiculous extent, that if the waves were over a certain height, you shouldn't be able to go out surfing because you might get injured and and uh the hospitalization costs would fall on uh the general public. Shouldn't be able to climb mountains,

[00:12:49] Mary George: certainly. And I can think of a good many good many other things that um um

[00:12:49] Randall Roth: Maybe not even run for election, because that can be hard on a person, very stressful, huh?

[00:12:53] Mary George: Yes. Yes, it could. No, I I think it's uh uh it it's part of my philosophy of the value of the individual. I as a politician, it would be ridiculous for me not to trust the good judgment of the individual, after all, they elected me, didn't they? You know.

[00:13:10] Randall Roth: That really is at the core of of your personal philosophy and I guess you described it as being part of the Republican approach to things. All right. Um couple of names, I'm just curious what your reaction would be uh just in a sentence or two or if you feel like it uh more, Pat Saiki.

[00:13:26] Mary George: Pat and I were seatmates in the Senate. Um, she uh uh ran for the uh State House the same year that I ran for the Council. Although she's a much younger woman than I, but I didn't get to know her until 74 when we both turned up in the Senate together, at least [unintelligible — audio glitch] knew her but only casually. And I have a great deal of respect for her. She's a she's a fine lady and uh uh contrary to what um um what was the most difficult thing to counter that that kept being repeated, she's very much her own person. And if you ever tried to persuade Pat to do something she doesn't

[00:14:08] Mary George: want to do, you'd know that that's the case.

[00:14:08] Randall Roth: In in one sentence, and I say that because I know we could make a show out of this, but in one sentence, why do you think she didn't do better in this recent election?

[00:14:16] Mary George: I think a three-way race is always chancey and it's hard to know where people's um uh divided loyalties are going to fall. I was uh I was frankly somewhat surprised that the way it came out.

[00:14:30] Randall Roth: Okay. Well, I've got some more names that I would like to run by you, but we have a caller, Henry from Honolulu. Henry, you're on the air.

[00:14:36] Caller: Hi Randy, and hi Mary, Henry Clark calling.

[00:14:38] Randall Roth: Oh, I recognize the voice. Good morning, Henry.

[00:14:40] Caller: Good morning. Hi. Well, you know, we retirees are still have some energy left. Mary, what do you plan to do with the rest of your life?

[00:14:49] Mary George: Well, I've I thought I was going to uh um, you know, kind of enjoy myself, kind of have a hammock existence and I I already described throwing away my alarm clock. Doesn't work that way. I've got more things to do and more on more that I'd like to um get around to than there are hours in the day, so uh I I know what you mean, Henry.

[00:15:10] Caller: Well, I had a friend who used to go swimming with me, who was a retired civil servant from Pearl Harbor and one day he said, not enough to just exercise the body, also have to exercise the brain. And I agree 100%, but there's so much that needs to be done and so much you could do. I hope that the hammock is not where you'll do it.

[00:15:34] Randall Roth: Oh, that's nice, Henry.

[00:15:35] Caller: Okay. Well, thank you.

[00:15:37] Randall Roth: Thank you for the call.

[00:15:39] Mary George: That's a nice thing to say. Of course I have I have lots to do, and while I intend to be somewhat selfish, I do want to I do want to do some traveling, and I have some writing I want to do. I'm deliberating, I've had several suggestions of going back on this board, or doing something in a volunteer way for somebody else. I don't know, I think in on the volunteer level, 26 years ought to be enough of that.

[00:16:06] Randall Roth: Interesting that that would be brought up by Henry, who hasn't done a very good job of retiring himself. He stays awfully busy.

[00:16:11] Mary George: Yes, he does.

[00:16:12] Randall Roth: Uh, we have several more callers on the line. Michael from the Big Island, good morning, Michael.

[00:16:16] Caller: Uh hello. Uh Mary, a few seconds ago, you were talking about the idea of um that maybe possible that the laws be established for people not to go out in the surf instance when the surf was too high. But that that's kind of that's kind of extreme. But what about the idea of making everyone pay for rescue? Everyone pay for every government service, individually pay for it rather than taking it out [unintelligible — audio glitch] big treasury that, and so people have no individual responsibility. Uh, how can you pay the public pay for a person to climb in the mountains and and hurt themselves and then they go out and do it again.

[00:16:53] Randall Roth: Interesting thought, what do you think?

[00:16:56] Mary George: It's brought up from from time to time. I think, um, um, I don't know. Do you carry, do you carry medical insurance?

[00:17:04] Caller: Well, I have homeowners.

[00:17:05] Mary George: Okay. Medical.

[00:17:07] Caller: Medical, yes, I have HMSA. I suppose that covers me for something.

[00:17:10] Mary George: Sure. Sure. I would I would think so. I don't know, if you want to climb Mount Everest, um nobody guarantees to come up and rescue you if you fall down a crevasse.

[00:17:20] Caller: They try.

[00:17:21] Mary George: On Mount Everest?

[00:17:23] Caller: Well, I don't know about Mount No, not Mount Everest, no.

[00:17:26] Randall Roth: Well, and I think Mary, wouldn't you say, perhaps they shouldn't necessarily try that. Maybe that's a risk that Michael wants to take and he ought to be allowed to take that risk? That's the point.

[00:17:34] Mary George: I think that's the point. I don't think that um uh there's any build in responsibility to um bail people out for for foolish actions for going out when the surf is more than they can handle.

[00:17:47] Caller: I think it's Mount Whitney in Alaska, if I have the right mountain, is now, uh established a scheme, they're making each uh climber pay a fee $250, $300, something like that. And this will cover the rescues. Um in a way of spreading it out.

[00:18:05] Mary George: And then if you don't pay the $250 or $300, you don't get rescued.

[00:18:09] Caller: You don't get climb. No, you get rescued, you don't you don't climb. But as you know that even if you did try to collect individually from from people for rescues, the cost of collection almost always exceeds the the uh what you get out of the collection. Only if people pay willingly do you get your money back.

[00:18:27] Randall Roth: It sounds like, Mary, you would take that a step further and say simply tell these people that if they climb, they're on their own.

[00:18:34] Mary George: Yeah.

[00:18:36] Randall Roth: Okay. Well, thank you, Michael, appreciate your call.

[00:18:39] Caller: Right. Bye.

[00:18:39] Randall Roth: Another caller from the Big Island, David, good morning.

[00:18:41] Caller: Yeah, good morning, Randy and good morning Mary.

[00:18:44] Mary George: Good morning.

[00:18:45] Caller: I I agree with you that the government should only do for us what we cannot do for ourselves. I used to be Republican but uh ever since Reagan got in, it seems that one of the things the government thinks that we should do for ourselves is protecting

[00:19:00] Randall Roth: environment and I this is where I differ from the current crop of Republicans and I the the feeling that I have and Ginrich doesn't help it any is that uh they are really uh anti-environment. Uh the environment is strict now Joan the government doesn't think they should be protecting and I like you to comment on that.

[00:19:20] Mary George: Sure, I'd be glad to. On a personal level, I don't I don't really know, I can't comment about the national intention because they haven't done anything yet. All we've seen are newspaper reports of and speculation about it. I I'd sort of like to see what they're really going to do. On a personal level, I think um um you'll probably find me as um um a small time environmentalist um beginning with going out and picking up the litter on the beach in front of my house, which I do weekly. And I am protective um as as I can.

[00:19:56] Randall Roth: Guys referring really to the national scene rather than here.

[00:19:59] Mary George: As I say, we haven't really seen anything here except speculation. I would I would like to see what they what they do, not what people are speculating that they're going to do. It's a little hard to criticize people before they've taken any action.

[00:20:16] Randall Roth: Mary, I'm I'm curious tying what you just said to David and to what you were saying to Michael. Uh are you suggesting that as as government gets more and more active in say protecting the environment, that there are fewer people like Mary George out picking up trash themselves, that maybe they feel that the uh that now that government's doing that, they don't have any responsibility or is that not

[00:20:39] Mary George: I think, yeah. Um if if you look, I I'm trying to relate to the national scene, and I I as I say, it's very difficult to know what what is really going on and I don't want to turn into Frank Fasi, but I do think that sometimes the media reports um um what they're seeing through their spectacles on the on the national scene. Uh the a a large part of the unfunded federal mandates that we're hearing so much about that the National Governors Association and uh and the legislative national legislative associations are so upset about. These unfunded federal mandates, a great many of them are rooted in um um making the decision about what environment

[00:21:31] Mary George: to protect and to what extent and and at what cost.

[00:21:31] Mary George: When um um I believe that um many of these things should be decided on a local level. It's hard to bring it down to snail darters and spotted owls.

[00:21:43] Randall Roth: I I suppose David, you you can't really argue with [unintelligible — audio glitch] there has to be a line drawn someplace that we don't have unlimited resources and and perhaps people on a local level are um uh a little bit better placed to make the decision as to how best to spend those limited resources, or or not?

[00:22:00] Mary George: Well, it doesn't really work in places like the Northwest where the local people are loggers. You have to have [unintelligible — audio glitch] more a a larger view than just, you know, exploiting the local resource. And that's that's the only problem with with grassroots environmentalism if you let the local people protect the local resource, it may not work. [unintelligible — audio glitch] disagree with you. I think the choice has to be made locally and if you'd um uh if you'd spend a little time in Humble County in California and uh uh realize what's what's happening there to um to the economy. When you have to choose David, I really appreciate your call. Thank you. Um

[00:23:35] Mary George: you're listening to the Price of Paradise Radio Show. I'm Randy Roth, and my guest today is Mary George. Mary George has just uh finished up a quarter of a century of uh public service and as uh Henry Clark encouraged a few minutes ago, uh I doubt that uh it's going to end uh Mary's activism in terms of working for a uh good here in Hawaii.

[00:23:35] Randall Roth: And Mary, I noticed there's a a typographical error on what you sent me. It it says that you're uh uh 78 years old. I'm sure that's a typo. No, it's not. No, it's not. Uh before we took um a few phone calls, I said that I was going to give you some names and see if you could react just real quickly to those names. Uh what about Ben Cayetano?

[00:23:57] Mary George: Um I think Ben deserves the deserves my silence as it were. He's uh been in office a very short time and um um let's let's wait and see what he does before we say anything either to praise him or or to condemn him. And uh I would hope of course that it would be praiseworthy. I'd much rather praise him than not. I'm very interested in and I hope I don't have to wait too long in finding out whether or not he's going to follow through on some of the um of the statements he made when he was campaigning. He was um uh came came down solidly in favor of an elected Attorney General, which is

[00:24:44] Mary George: something I've been advocating for. Gee, I don't know, when I first introduced that

[00:24:44] Randall Roth: You know, you've been advocating a lot of things that are uh kind of hot right now uh initiative and term limits and just all sorts of things. It's uh I evidently, I haven't a very good sense of timing.

[00:25:00] Mary George: No, I I would love to see uh him follow through on an elected Attorney General. Then I had introduced a bill a couple of years ago to take the uh um election process out of the uh um hands of an elected official in in it's currently administered.

[00:25:19] Randall Roth: Well, he personally is in favor of that too, isn't he? He's in favor. He testified two years ago on on my bill and came out during the campaign that he still favored removing that the election process. In fact, I think everybody who ran for the office this time was in favor of uh doing that.

[00:25:34] Mary George: Well, let's let's see how how it works how it works out. I'm also, I think one of the biggest dilemmas, and I'll be very interested to know how he how he copes with that is averting a strike um the the public employees. Um during the campaign, he said he could bring him to the table, he could resolve things where and felt that that none of his um neither of his opponents could do so. Mhm. Uh, so, um, I hope he's right. I hope he can bring him to the table and resolve any any employment questions because um as I read the budget, we ain't got the money to um to pay any more out.

[00:26:15] Randall Roth: One one of the nicest things about you, Mary, is that as I sit here and look at you and I listen to that, you really mean it. You really hope he does pull that off. You're you're not confident, but I hear you saying you really hope he can do that.

[00:26:27] Mary George: Of course, I don't want to pay any more taxes or undertake any grief. None of us None of us does.

[00:26:33] Randall Roth: I guess that's right. Uh I forgot to mention a moment ago when I reminded listeners that this is the Price of Paradise Radio show that we are live and our phone lines are open. Your questions and comments are welcome. The phone number is 955-8821. Another name, Mary, Frank Fasi.

[00:26:52] Mary George: Oh, maybe not, Randy. I don't know. It's I'm still um I'm still a little close to the campaign and um Well, you know, I've been getting some some media uh training lately, Mary, and if you'll just lean over and whisper to me just between you and me, Uh Now, you you would rather not uh share your thoughts about Frank Fasi? No, I I will um um uh no, I'll pass. I'll pass. Okay. That's fair. I'll pass. What about uh President Clinton? Well, I I think uh sorrow is is the main thing. You hate to see anybody uh uh react so badly to um deterioration of his um of his reputation and his um what what

[00:27:45] Mary George: started off as uh um acceptance by a goodly percentage of the American public. He's lost it.

[00:27:45] Randall Roth: Now, why do you say badly? And and what specifically has he done that suggested he's I'm just I'm just reading the polls. His his numbers, his numbers are down and I believe them. Oh, you so you're saying that he's just gone down as opposed to he's done something bad in response to that.

[00:28:01] Mary George: Well, um, I think he's going to have to move pretty pretty fast and uh take some very positive actions or he's going to be um he's going to fall victim to the wimp um characterization that haunted Bush.

[00:28:18] Randall Roth: Why why has his rating dropped so precipitously? The guy is very very bright, hard-working, Yeah. Um trying to find a consensus. It's not as though he's a ideologue who's very stubbornly sticking to something, he's trying to find that middle ground.

[00:28:36] Mary George: Maybe we need an ideologue. Maybe we need somebody with with firm, definite convictions, this is where I'm going, this is what I'm going to do, and then who goes ahead and does it. Clinton has um vacillated, I believe, in particularly in the foreign area. He's um um he hasn't attracted um a topnotch people to surround him, which is too bad. that there's been um um a considerable um um outflow of people on the cabinet and subcabinet levels. I don't know, I I think it's too bad. I think he's a a I agree with you, he's a a road scholar, person of of considerable intellect, but I don't think he's a real leader.

[00:29:22] Randall Roth: You know, as I was listening to that, I was reminded to uh Richard Richard Breca's piece that he wrote about you when you announced your retirement and he was telling a story about the some legislation that um some folks were were wanting and uh some of your colleagues in the legislature were saying, we need to pass this because quote the people want it. Uh do you recall what your response was to that?

[00:29:44] Mary George: I I remember what Richard said but you know, I can't remember saying it. Well, it's a good thing for people like Richard out there to document these things. one of the one of the things that I remember uh I quite often I I guess in my earlier career, I used to mouth off more than I do now. And I remember Dave Donnelly um asking me when I was first elected to City Council, you know, what why are you here? Why did you run [unintelligible — audio glitch] office? And uh I said, because I'm a compulsive meddler.

[00:30:13] Randall Roth: turned up in his column and and

[00:38:00] Caller: to discuss uh having more of the balance as everybody who need who is interested in democracy would, and I'm thinking that wouldn't you agree, Mary, that uh the Republicans could be characterized as being the halves here in Hawaii and the rest of us here are blue collar, have-nots.

[00:38:22] Randall Roth: Frank, Frank, let me let me get Mary's reaction to that and then I'm going to come right back to you, Mary.

[00:38:26] Mary George: Uh, do I translate what you said as meaning that the Republicans are the party of the rich in Hawaii?

[00:38:34] Caller: Wouldn't you characterize it that way?

[00:38:36] Mary George: No.

[00:38:37] Caller: Mhm, it seems to me that maybe the perception would be that in Hawaii and maybe nationally that the Republicans generally have been thought of as the owners, whereas us blue collars are the other, Democrats.

[00:38:52] Randall Roth: You know, that's kind of the way it's been framed. And I guess Mary, you would say it should be framed differently. It should be framed in terms of belief in the individual, as opposed to belief in government knowing better than the individual.

[00:39:03] Mary George: We're we're not really a typical state, so it's a little hard to draw a parallel with with society.

[00:39:12] Caller: I think it's a legacy from the plantation days too, isn't it?

[00:39:15] Mary George: Yes, I that that I would say is is the case, that uh it's the perception persists. Um, and what why uh why the old perceptions linger, well, that people are reminded every even numbered year of the plantation days and um the campaigning is done on the basis of of appealing to preservation of that legacy.

[00:39:42] Caller: I don't know how long it will continue, but I think that most people still go under that still live under that mentality plantation days.

[00:39:53] Mary George: Yeah, too bad.

[00:39:54] Randall Roth: Frank, we've got someone else on the line. You had another point to make. Let's go to it.

[00:39:57] Caller: Oh, just observation about Clinton and how he seems to be such a vacillator. It seems to me that um you know there's the Hawaii way of settling disputes, ho oponopono. Everybody talks it out and by the time an agreement is made, then everybody knows what that agreement is going to be. I'd like to give Clinton credit for that kind of way of operating that he's I feel he's a sincere kind of person and he's trying to work out a way where everybody comes out right and that nobody walks away mad, and maybe his his wimpishness seems to be that kind of way of operating.

[00:40:38] Randall Roth: Okay. I just like to say that.

[00:40:40] Mary George: Okay, it's an interesting observation.

[00:40:42] Caller: I hope I'm right. I don't know.

[00:40:44] Mary George: I I am, I think we have a hunger for strong, committed leadership, individual leadership rather than, I don't think you can ho oponopono a presidency, I'm sorry.

[00:40:59] Caller: But I'm wondering if maybe a new mode, a more more um efficacious mode might not be to hear everybody out and then everybody kind of make a consensus. I'd like to believe it, instead of all those radical pros and cons.

[00:41:17] Mary George: With without um entering into real disagreement with you, I'd like to offer the thought that you can't really can't solve a Bosnia problem by ho oponopono.

[00:41:27] Caller: I wish that they had done it before it came to that point. But anyway, good luck to you. Aloha.

[00:41:33] Mary George: Thank you.

[00:41:34] Randall Roth: Thank you, Frank. Appreciate the call. We have another caller from the neighbor islands, this one from Maui. Bill, good morning.

[00:41:40] Caller: Good morning.

[00:41:41] Randall Roth: Good morning, Bill.

[00:41:42] Caller: I was so impressed, Mary's 78, and I'm 80.

[00:41:47] Mary George: It's it's always a pleasure to meet a senior.

[00:41:51] Caller: from the mainland, I grew up and came over here about 20 years ago. And it seems to me what we're getting back to on the mainland are the good old days of Coolidge and Hoover. And Gingrich is talking about wanting to restore that kind of government. We seem to forgotten the reason the government got so big is because the corporations got so big. Now, we want to downsize the government, and there's no talk of downsizing the corporations.

[00:42:18] Randall Roth: Well, let's let's get Mary's uh reaction to that, Bill.

[00:42:23] Mary George: I I'm not quite sure how you want how you want to bust up the uh bust up the corporations, uh downsize the corporations, that's um

[00:42:34] Caller: Well, do away with all their political power packs and things like that. They can confine themselves to just producing what they produce and not get out and politically shape the the country.

[00:42:45] Randall Roth: Well, Bill, I think you've raised a topic that's near and dear to Mary, campaign financing reform. Tell us just a little bit about your thoughts, Mary.

[00:42:53] Mary George: Um, it's it's deeper than just campaign finance reform. I think the system needs a good, hard, cold look. And it's uh the way in which campaigning is done as well as the way in which it's financed. Um, I'm not sure that quite often, um uh people say that corporations should not be allowed to give money. That um um we have to restrain them from even the creation and and preservation of of contributing to PACs, which is the way in which it's done now. But if we're going to do that, then the the problem is we have to do something about um um eroding the capability of the unions to participate and uh that's that's kind

[00:42:55] Mary George: of a sacred cow.

[00:42:55] Randall Roth: Mhm, mhm. Well, Bill, we appreciate your thoughts.

[00:43:07] Caller: Well, what I'm it ties into the gentleman's comments before, the memory of people here in Hawaii goes back to the period when the corporations ran things, Mhm. And the memory on the state seems to be faded from the days when corporations ran things under Coolidge and Hoover. And people had to sell apples for 5 cents on corners and so on.

[00:44:08] Randall Roth: Okay. Thank you, Bill. Appreciate your call. You're listening to the Price of Paradise Radio Show. I'm Randy Roth, and my guest today is Mary George. Uh Mary is here to answer your questions or respond to your comments. Our phone number is 955-8821. Our lines are open. Neighbor Islanders are invited to call collect. The number again is 955-8821. Mary, I'm curious um what comes Before Before you get around to that, while we're on the national scene, the one uh I'll I'll take a little exception to making personal remarks. I've been um um interested and uh uh not very sympathetic with uh the public comments that that have been made by um um the our Congress people

[00:46:07] Randall Roth: on the hill. I think both um Patsey Mink and Neil Abercrombie have um um demons demonstrated by their uh outraged remarks and and whining really about what this the terrible thing that uh the Republican majority is going to do for the state of Hawaii. And I would offer the thought that if we had a divided and a a balance of power, we have four people representing us in the Congress. And if even one of them were a Republican, be better if two of them were Republicans. Of course, I'd like to see them all Republicans, but then we can't can't do that overnight. Um, that there wouldn't be all this um uh verbal anguish about what

[00:46:07] Randall Roth: might happen. And the second thing I'd like to say about that is I don't think that the government is, the federal government is going to do that much damage to the state of Hawaii. I I don't think they're out to destroy non-Republican state institutions.

[00:46:07] Randall Roth: Well, we certainly hope uh hope not. We have several callers on the line. The first is Duke from Waikiki. Good morning, Duke.

[00:46:14] Caller: Good morning. Now, maybe this just ties in with what Mary George was just saying, but uh it has always perplexed me why when you go to vote, you have to vote uh a party line in the primary. What does what is her feelings on um being able to have everybody on the uh ballot and have the citizens choose, pick and choose among all the candidates.

[00:46:37] Mary George: Well, I think that's a lousy idea, frankly. As uh Now Now be honest, Mary. Don't don't sugarcoat it. Don't don't waffle. Um I think um I don't even I I would like to see a closed primary. I certainly don't want to see the kind of ballot where you can go in and pick and choose from both sides of uh the aisle so to speak. I don't want Democrats picking the Republican candidate for office.

[00:47:04] Randall Roth: But if the uh you see now you're putting labels on it again. If the people really Sure, what's wrong with labels? Well, if the people really feel that um uh some Democrats are good and some Republicans are good, this might be one way to get uh some of those congressional people Republicans. Duke, were you listening uh earlier in the show when when Mary was commenting uh about how maybe instead of uh voting for quote the best person, we should uh figure out what sort of job it is that we want that person to do?

[00:47:37] Caller: Uh no, I turned on about I think about uh 15 minutes into your show.

[00:47:41] Randall Roth: I think most people probably did. Mary, in in just a a few seconds, can you describe again because I thought that was particularly interesting about you know your political philosophy.

[00:47:51] Mary George: I don't think we paid enough attention to the the basic difference between the parties. That's the reason to have two parties really and the reason to have the label, why the label is valuable. It lets you know something or hopefully you would know something about the person who is running about a basic philosophy. And I I perceive that to be um uh the philosophy that um um holds government down to doing only those things for the people which they cannot do for themselves to um that's the that's the the Lincoln um identification of of what I feel to be Republican philosophy. And the value of the individual um on the Democrat philosophy is that um

[00:49:20] Mary George: describes a much larger role for government in caring for people and making decisions for people who quite often I feel are perfectly capable of making those decisions for themselves. I don't know how that ties into what you were just saying, but Well, [unintelligible — audio glitch] that bothers me a little bit because uh when you start talking about voting party lines when you get elected as a block, that seems to lock the the different governing bodies into um the the will maybe of the speaker or or following the president, when sometimes you have to follow your conscience.

[00:49:20] Mary George: This we're talking uh uh only about the primary. You you suggested that in the primary, the public in general should be allowed to make the selection of the appropriate candidates for the respective parties. Um I I am disagreeing but only in terms of the primary election. The the theory is that in during the primary, which is not really an election, you know, it's a a selection of the candidate who is going to um run in the election. Right. And it's sometimes done through as you know, uh not done through election at all. Like in like in the presidency, it's done in in a in a convention. And in some states, it's done in other ways.

[00:50:27] Mary George: Well maybe I'm a little naive, but it seems to me that if I see some real good Democrats for some positions and I'd say, but I don't see any good Democrat running for uh the first Congressional District or something. I'd rather see this Republican in and I'd rather vote for that person. Then you do it in the general election. That person though may not get enough votes.

[00:50:27] Randall Roth: Duke, uh appreciate your thoughts, your point, I think has been very well made. I've got three people on the line and only 15 minutes to go. I need to move on. Thank you very much. Okay. Susan, thank thank you for waiting patiently. Susan from Kahaluu, you're on the line.

[00:50:41] Caller: Susan, are you there? Yes, I am. Good morning. Good morning, Mary. Good morning, Susan. Um, I heard you once say that it was important for us to get involved with the political process. Mhm. And um there are some of our legislators who just automatically seem to understand the process and go to it like you have. And we appreciate your efforts so much. Uh there are other ones that need some education and I'm wondering if we shouldn't instigate an education of our legislators before they get into office.

[00:51:18] Mary George: Um, um, I'm I'm not sure. The the process itself is uh actually not not very complicated. There are only two ways to go, yes and no. And uh [unintelligible — audio glitch] your um um the the decision that you make, what one hopes would be made on the basis of um of thoughtful application of your philosophy to the one at hand. You know, if I could do a kind of a sideways comment um Randy, one of the things that that is interesting about about politics is that it covers absolutely everything. There isn't a subject that you don't get an opportunity to to learn something about. And um in in 26 years, that there's I can

[00:52:27] Mary George: assure you that uh right right up until when I quit, I was learning things about new subjects. So it's um [unintelligible — audio glitch] process, I don't know how you'd educate somebody. Um Talk radio. Talk talk radio. A lively interest in absolutely everything, I think would be a valuable asset.

[00:52:27] Randall Roth: And I guess that's what the voters are trying to figure out is is who has that uh ability and breath of interest and all that sort of thing.

[00:52:33] Mary George: That's uh uh I would I would say yeah, the uh that the informed voter ought to find out um um the philosophy that the candidate is going to apply to the solution of problems. What kind of basic ground rules. And uh I think they ought to be the the person they elect ought to be reasonably bright. It would be helpful, although not not necessary. A a good bit of education doesn't hurt a bit, but I don't think it's uh I don't think it's mandatory. There's a lot of a lot of native wit that goes into it. Okay.

[00:53:10] Randall Roth: Thank you, Susan.

[00:53:11] Mary George: Okay. Thank you.

[00:53:12] Randall Roth: Uh Terry from Waikiki, you've been waiting patiently. Good morning.

[00:53:15] Caller: Thank you. Uh two things I'll try to make it fast. Uh this may have been uh addressed earlier. Um was it a a retiring Senator George? Um was it or was it not outrageous that it came out in the news, Patsy Mink said uh practically quote, uh, we will do everything possible to block um anything the Republicans proposed. She didn't say to discuss it. She she just outright said, we will block everything.

[00:53:21] Randall Roth: As a matter of fact, I think that's a quote in this morning's Sunday Advertiser. I didn't get I didn't get my paper, but I think the um uh I think the attitude has come through in in other ways. I think we have to remember, let's let's be a little generous with Patsy. She's never been in the minority. She has to learn the minority role. And it's one I know very well. It's the only only in at one time when the Republicans were in the in the Senate were in coalition with um uh the Democrats. I I was in the leadership role and [unintelligible — audio glitch] the temporary majority. But all the rest of the

[00:55:01] Randall Roth: time I've been in the minority, and [unintelligible — audio glitch] an important role, and challenging is fine, discussing is fine, uh tempering uh legislation as tidily as you can to fit your own concepts. That's that's minority role. You're the um you're the one who's supposed to poke the sleeping dogs with sticks, and you're supposed to be the uh the conscience of the body you serve in. It's an important role and Patsy will have to learn it.

[00:55:01] Caller: Thank you. And but here this is more important. It's been driving me nuts the last couple of days and I I don't know because I don't know who who said it, but they said uh Republicans are are they're the same as Democrats because they have not addressed the most important issue and they didn't, and they avoided putting it in their contract. This business of campaign spending, which is what I heard that when I took first tuned you in. Um and and I heard you address that, and I said who who was it? I Someone important said that. And I they said if it wasn't in the contract, it means the Republicans aren't what they're doing

[00:55:43] Caller: about it and they felt it was absolutely the most important thing that could change.

[00:55:43] Mary George: I think it's a it's a dilemma to try to figure out that uh it's getting close to the hour. Funny how fast it goes. But there's a real constitutional dilemma with um restricting people's capability of funding and saying whatever they want to in in an election and the courts time after time have um have prevented um every measure that anybody could think of to restrain the um financial excesses that now go into campaigns. If I come up with something like that, believe me, that's something I'll get I'll continue to get into.

[00:56:25] Randall Roth: Well, Alola and good luck to you.

[00:56:26] Mary George: Thank you.

[00:56:28] Randall Roth: Thank you, Terry. Uh, a caller who uh got tired of waiting on the line, left uh a question. She says, uh please or a comment, please comment, Mary on women in politics, then and now. And I guess then refers to uh when you were kind of the the lone Ranger out there, the only woman in a number of political situations. Yeah, it's uh um it it's a delight to be uh um fairly unique because, excuse me, Got a cough button on this. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to do that.

[00:57:05] Mary George: That wakes everybody up. That's kind of the alarm clock.

[00:57:07] Randall Roth: Is that what it is? Uh, the, uh, in the early days, the one of the reasons I got so much attention from the media is if they wanted a comment from a woman and a Republican, you know, that then uh, guess guess who they could come to? I was it. Yeah, all wrapped up into one. So, um, um, obviously I was singled out for attention because I was fairly unique.

[00:57:36] Mary George: Has that changed?

[00:57:37] Randall Roth: Um, no, in my own case, no. The the the media have continued to be very generous with their coverage of me. Um, however, it is no longer a curiosity to find a woman. We have How many in the United States Senate now are there? Eight, eight, or something like that.

[00:57:55] Mary George: Quite a few. Percentage wise is a big increase, yeah.

[00:57:59] Randall Roth: Yeah, started out with, um, Margaret Chase Smith being the the lonely only. Right. Um, the the anecdotal stuff is wonderful. When I started off in politics, I was a councilman. That's the way it was described. I got translated into council person, council member. Scotty Koga used to call me Councilman Mmhmm.

[00:58:22] Mary George: Maybe that was Klessen Chikasuy. I can't remember. Anyway, they're uh uh they have now uh somewhat uh I in sometimes laughable terms now for in an attempt to use politically correct language. Mmhmm. Mmhmm.

[00:58:36] Randall Roth: I didn't mind I didn't mind being a chairman. I didn't mind, you know, if I could get it, I'd take it. Right.

[00:58:43] Mary George: Mary, we had uh someone who called in and she left this uh comment. She said, Democrats in Hawaii like Mary, but you have blinders on when it comes to other Republicans. What do you suppose that caller was referring to?

[00:58:59] Randall Roth: The faintest idea. Don't always agree with my Republican colleagues anymore than I always agree with uh my Democrat colleagues. Uh Mmhmm.

[00:59:09] Mary George: Well, if if somebody were to say, well, Mary, there's there's some reason why the Republicans as a party haven't done better over the last several decades in Hawaii. And and there's some failings there. It's not just that the Democrats have done a tremendous job, the Republicans have dropped the ball a time or two. Does that ring any ring true or not?

[00:59:31] Randall Roth: I think we'll get, um, increasingly given the impetus of, uh, the encouragement on the national level. I think we'll get more candidates, exciting candidates. Young people. That's been a very difficult thing to coax young people into, um, active party membership. We now have, um, a lively young Republicans group that's been pretty noisy. There's a campus Republicans group that is, uh, moving along. So you're pretty optimistic about the party. I'm optimistic, and if if there's, um, if there's anything I can do to push them along, I will.

[01:00:09] Mary George: That sounds good. We have a caller from Makiki. Mark, you're on the air.

[01:00:13] Caller: Oh, hi there. Um, yeah, I'd like to have Mary George's comments about the Hawaiian sovereignty movement. Um, particularly, what direction does she hope the movement will take in the future?

[01:00:26] Mary George: Now, there there's an easy question, Mary, with, uh, three minutes to go.

[01:00:29] Randall Roth: I was just I was just going to say, uh, that, take all of a minute or two. All of that. That's a great question, by the way. What do you think, Mary? Um, I think the decision of the direction that it's going to take has to be taken by the Hawaiians themselves, and I have not yet sensed any unanimity of feeling about shaping shaping what it is that that they expect to achieve. The decision then about it has to be made by all of us. But I think the uh uh the carving the the proposal has to be done by the Hawaiian community.

[01:01:06] Mary George: Mmhmm. And I I guess that is being done, but very slowly.

[01:01:09] Randall Roth: Slowly, and that's all right. It it it's not easy. It it's of uh conundrum. It's not just it's not a question. And, um, um, obviously uh all the help that that is required, anything that we can do in the rest of the community to foster um the um consensus on the part of the Hawaiians, we should do.

[01:01:34] Mary George: Okay. Thank you, Mark.

[01:01:35] Caller: Thank you very much.

[01:01:37] Mary George: Mary, we're down to just, uh, the last couple of minutes. Um, what are the biggest challenges facing the people of Hawaii? What do we as as concerned members of this community need to, um, keep a close watch over?

[01:02:02] Randall Roth: I've been interested. I've been waiting to hear if anybody would bring it up. Um, I think our biggest problem as a as a state, from the from the political point of view, has been the short shrift that business has gotten, small business. We've, some reference has been made to the big corporations, but um a very large percentage, well over three quarters, of the jobs in the state are small business jobs. And, um, we're not Excuse me again. Sorry. Um, we we have not, um, done as we should in, um, um, making capital available, making, uh, making the way easy for small business. We need to turn them loose, so to speak. We're we've, um,

[01:02:50] Mary George: So government has put barriers up that government should take down?

[01:02:54] Randall Roth: Yes, that that ought to be eradicated. Once again, I have confidence that that the people themselves will create the jobs that will create the wealth, that will make us a healthy state. At the moment, we're not. Mmhmm. Economically, we're not a healthy state.

[01:03:13] Mary George: Any, uh, any final thoughts, uh, about anything that we've talked about or haven't talked about today?

[01:03:20] Randall Roth: No, if I can reiterate if in case it isn't clear to anyone, the basis of my philosophy is is valuing the individual, and along those lines, I value being asked, Randy. I enjoyed being here. I value the calls that came in, and, you know, I'm I'm still in the phone book. I'm easy to find.

[01:03:40] Mary George: You know, Mary, uh, I feel confident I'm speaking on behalf of an awful lot of listeners that we we value you. We value the contribution that you've made and everything that you represent. And, uh, my hunch is that as as Henry from Waikiki suggested this morning, uh, you're not going to spend too much time in that hammock. I've got a feeling we're going to be hearing a lot more from uh Mary George. I'm certainly going to be bugging you from time to time to be either a a guest host or or a guest on this program. So don't be a stranger.

[01:04:10] Randall Roth: I won't be, and thank you.

[01:04:12] Mary George: Okay. Uh, you've been listening to the Price of Paradise Radio Show. This week's show was produced by Susie Roth, with help on the phones from Cassie Roth. Our technical support is provided by Jeff Ilardy. We're on every Sunday morning live from 7:30 to 8:30. Your questions and calls are always welcome. We appreciate them very, very much. You've been listening to the Price of Paradise Radio program. I'm Randy Roth. Aloha.

[01:03:52] Randall Roth: is that as as Henry from Waikiki suggested this morning, uh you're not going to spend too much time in that hammock. I've got a feeling we're going to be hearing a lot more from uh Mary George. I'm certainly going to be bugging you from time to time to be either a a guest host or or a guest on this program. So, don't be a stranger.

[01:04:10] Mary George: I won't be. And thank you.

[01:04:12] Randall Roth: Okay. Uh you've been listening to the Price of Paradise Radio show. This week's show was produced by Susie Roth with help on the phones from Cassie Roth. Our technical support is provided by Jeff Ilardi.

[01:04:24] Randall Roth: We're on every Sunday morning live from 7:30 to 8:30. Your questions and calls are always welcome. We appreciate them very, very much. You've been listening to the Price of Paradise radio program. I'm Randy Roth. Aloha.