Bill Wood Interview
Price of Paradise · Hawaii Public Radio · aired 1993-01-01
Guests: Bill Wood (business journalist)
Duration: 0:30:38

[00:00:00] Randall Roth: is a $2.5 billion airport expansion project that's not going according to plan. Governor Waihee gave a talk to the Honolulu Rotary Club last week and is quoted as having said, tourism officials predicted that the number of visitors coming to Hawaii would increase by nearly 50% in the next decade. Faced with these projections, the State Department of Transportation decided to implement a 25 year master plan for the Honolulu International Airport. Is it that simple for the Department of Transportation to simply decide to implement a plan like that?

[00:00:33] Bill Wood: Oh, it's that simple. I mean you and I could make up our mind and do something like that if we wanted to, but it's the point of it it is that, well, the the he's being I think extremely selective with his numbers. And uh there are any number of studies attempting to project tourism. Uh, the airport expansion program was initiated in the late eighties and uh, but the point of it all, one of the points of it is that uh projections change with changing conditions. And the tourism industry today is a far cry, this worldwide, the tourism industry is a far cry from what it was in the late eighties uh when uh prosperity was

[00:01:16] Bill Wood: everywhere.

[00:01:16] Bill Wood: Uh, today much of the world is in one phase or another of a recession, and uh, tourism is suffering, and those projections are not worth today are not worth the paper they were written on. The state has so in making any kind of a plan, as a for a business plan, you would certainly want to take those kinds of changes into account. If you're running a business, you'd be out of business if you froze yourself in the projections that were made so long ago.

[00:01:44] Randall Roth: Were those projections the result of discussions with many people in the tourist industry, or just how were those projections arrived at?

[00:01:50] Bill Wood: I don't know how they made those particular projections. I think that and I'm not familiar with a particular study on which they're based. Uh, there have been any number of studies going back for many years as to what the future of the the visitor industry will look like in Hawaii. Uh, I haven't heard or seen any really optimistic projections for a number of years, but back in the seventies and certainly perhaps over into the eighties when [unintelligible — audio glitch] country was coming out of the uh eighty-one, eighty-two recession, um, there were optimistic studies made. Uh, but they were best stabs in the dark um and I think those who made them would be the

[00:02:38] Bill Wood: first to admit that they're just guesses.

[00:02:38] Randall Roth: I see. Did uh did the state do any kind of cost-benefit analysis trying to determine just what they would get back for this $2.5 billion?

[00:02:46] Bill Wood: Uh not that I know of. At least not that uh the kind of a cost-benefit analysis that would be done in business. Um, they have talked about various side benefits of the expansion program, such as the aid to agriculture by making um uh foreign markets or overseas markets anyway more accessible to farmers, let's say on the Big Island and elsewhere, than it is today, and making it easier for them to get their crops to market by air. Um, and uh they have used instances like that to help justify the ambition of their expansion program. But um I don't think anything like that would stand up to a hard business like uh cost-benefit analysis.

[00:03:35] Randall Roth: Mhm. What about an attempt to prioritize the needs of the state? Uh was there any public dialogue to determine just what other areas, public schools or what have you, might perhaps be greater needs so far as

[00:03:47] Bill Wood: I don't think so, no. I can, in fact, I'd be hard-put [unintelligible — audio glitch] describe any kind of an analysis of that sort in any field in the state government.

[00:03:56] Randall Roth: Um, what have we learned from this? Is there something that uh perhaps we might be able to do differently in the future if this sort of major uh public project comes around.

[00:04:06] Bill Wood: I don't know that we can instill better planning practices, uh in the state government and in the legislature, uh, but one thing that we, I would hope we would have learned from this is the fact that conditions change and that plans have to be uh open enough to be uh changed with conditions. That you don't lock yourself into a spending program that's going to be obsolete before it's finished or it's going to be impossible [unintelligible — audio glitch] finance before it's finished. So I hope we have learned that. I'm not sure that we have.

[00:04:41] Randall Roth: What about uh the the reports in the newspaper that uh one of the contractors out at the airport initially won a bid for a contract uh in the amount of $150,000, and now some years later, uh without that contract ever being rebid, the number has grown to $52.6 million. Um, is that a problem, or is that the sort of thing that just happens in a a big project like this?

[00:05:08] Bill Wood: Well, no, it's not the sort of thing that just happens. Yes, it's a problem, if you're trying to control costs and uh want to uh have a system of accountability built into a project. Um a lot of the states, particularly the larger activities are notorious for this sort of thing. Uh, they use many, many independent contractors, uh consultants and others who uh um are called in to do certain specific amounts of work, then that work is uh often not even bid as uh we well know in the state here now where we're having gone through a controversy over the the non-bid contract. But um the uh it's not unusual for this to happen. It's just

[00:06:07] Bill Wood: the magnitude. With that large of a pr- of a project to $2.5 billion uh, you come up with some with some pretty impressive figures like the the one you mentioned.

[00:06:07] Randall Roth: There was a lot of press uh in late 1992 about um uh Ken Kiba and uh some expenditures out at the Aloha Stadium. Um anything related uh between that and and what you just described at the airport? Or are those two completely different matters?

[00:06:24] Bill Wood: No, well, they're completely different matters because they involve different projects. But I think that uh it is uh the spirit of it is the same and uh certainly the the circumstances are similar. Um, the reason for it occurring is uh the reasons are similar. Um, that they are politically motivated, which covers a magnitude of sins but uh, that they, it uh yeah, that's the reason that it happens.

[00:06:51] Randall Roth: Uh Mr. Kiba lost his job. Do you think that's going to make a difference in the future that uh people who might otherwise be tempted to engage in those sorts of practices are going to say, no that's that's not something that should be done?

[00:07:03] Bill Wood: Well, yeah, particularly if we we have legislation, which uh limits uh or at least attempts to control the non-bid contract process. And uh yeah, it takes uh this was a it's become a hot potato currently and uh that uh will probably subside in time, um, but whether [unintelligible — audio glitch] excesses come back um along with [unintelligible — audio glitch] public indifference, um, it remains to be seen. One would hope that they wouldn't.

[00:07:35] Randall Roth: You say public indifference. Um, I noticed the other day that Hawaii is last in the nation on voter turnout. Uh somebody told me that at one time Hawaii was first in the nation in voter turnout. What's going on Bill, why are we seemingly losing interest in what's going on?

[00:07:53] Bill Wood: Um, I don't know. I mean everybody has ideas. Uh, I suppose uh you could say, well people shrug their shoulders and say, well what's the point of objecting because it's going to happen anyway regardless of what I feel, or that's just the way things are here. A lot is excused uh on that basis. But uh, I happen to think that if things get bad enough the public will force change.

[00:08:20] Randall Roth: Are they bad enough now?

[00:08:21] Bill Wood: I think they are in in a lot of people's mind. Whether it's bad enough to to kick the rascals out if they don't make the changes that are necessary remains to be seen.

[00:08:32] Randall Roth: Is it as simple as switching from one party to another or is there more to it than that?

[00:08:36] Bill Wood: No, there's much more to that because because we are essentially a one party state. Uh the uh uh it's the nuances that go on within the Democratic Party that make it at times almost different parties.

[00:08:50] Randall Roth: So what does the community do? The community wants change, but it's not as simple as switching from one party to another. What do we do?

[00:08:58] Bill Wood: Well, I think you back them in it it's you back uh candidates and or existing uh poli- uh office holders who uh are in favor of uh reform. And I have yet to I don't think anybody has is yet to seriously uh uh campaign on the basis, particularly among the Democrats, of reform, but I think we are probably getting to that point. Um, you know, it was uh forty years ago that uh this state went through a a big political reform when returning uh veterans uh from World War II um took over the legislature and uh which had long been a a bastion of the Republican Party dominated by the big five and other major

[00:09:49] Bill Wood: landowners.

[00:09:49] Bill Wood: And uh um they on a reform platform changed things. Uh it has um been so long now since uh that that happened that most of the people who were involved in that uh uh revolution as it's been called, are gone. And um I think it may be time for uh another perhaps not as dramatic a change, but another kind of reform, and I would hope to see that from a practical standpoint point take place within the Democratic Party. Because I think that then it has the best chances of success.

[00:10:28] Randall Roth: How can the community effectively uh work for reform when uh I'm told that the League of Women Voters can only get about 30% of the incumbents to even respond to their request for a statement of uh each incumbent's position with respect to the issues of the day?

[00:10:45] Bill Wood: Well, I I think incumbents being what they are, [unintelligible — audio glitch] tend to do only what they feel is uh necessary uh to be reelected. Um it may be that they don't feel that uh exposing themselves to the kind of scrutiny that the uh League of Women Voters might give them um would pay dividends for them. And it could do them more harm than good. That's just guessing, but that uh would be a logical reason why they're not getting more participation.

[00:11:15] Randall Roth: So how can we uh as a community hold their feet to the fire?

[00:11:19] Bill Wood: I don't know, how would you do it?

[00:11:21] Randall Roth: Well, I guess I would try to publicize which candidates are sharing their vision for the future of Hawaii and telling us what difficult choices they're willing to make in order to achieve that future that vision, and those candidates that aren't uh sharing all of that with us, we'd try to uh vote them out of office.

[00:11:38] Bill Wood: You know it's difficult. I mean that [unintelligible — audio glitch] an ideal sort of ideal way of doing it.

[00:11:44] Randall Roth: I am an academic, you know.

[00:11:45] Bill Wood: But you have to have uh you to give them [unintelligible — audio glitch] platform and the circumstances whereby they would be subjected to that kind of scrutiny is not an easy thing to do. Particularly when you're talking about a multitude of candidates like you know for the state legislature. But uh you're you're right, there is as it exists now no real way to scrutinize the candidates and to to force them to answer the hard questions uh about uh what they would do in office and what they believe about certain issues and so forth.

[00:12:24] Randall Roth: Bill, the the book, The Price of Paradise, has um seemingly been well received by the community, but one comment I've heard from a number of people and I happen to concur is that the book tends to focus more on problems than solutions. Um, if you were the governor or the king or whatever, Okay, King. What uh what would be your first order of business? How would how would you go about solving uh our community's problems because after all, every community has its challenges and um it's the solution that's really important in the long run. How would you uh start turning things around? What's the first thing that you would address and how would you do

[00:13:06] Randall Roth: it?

[00:13:06] Bill Wood: Well, uh you mentioned that I think a keyword earlier on which is prioritization. Um, you would begin by prioritizing the problems. And then you would work on the solutions to those problems, solving the most pressing problems first or attempting to and deferring solution of lesser problems until later. Uh since we haven't the means or the band power or perhaps the will to do a lot at one time, we might start small and uh proceed from there. But uh it take would take a great deal of uh political courage to do something like this. I mean the politicians and um certainly that's the way it is here, politicians tend to do no more than they have

[00:13:56] Bill Wood: to.

[00:13:56] Bill Wood: Um you don't see anybody out leading the charge to reform. Um they talk about it, but when it right comes down, push comes to shove uh in the legislature [unintelligible — audio glitch] where elsewhere, then uh not a great deal is accomplished. And that is usually uh justified by saying, well, it's politically uh impossible to do more than this at this time. And why is that? Hm? This is something that the voters could legitimately demand to know. Why can't we have the kinds of reforms that the politicians frequently talk about when they're campaigning? The changes. Why aren't our schools better? I've been talking about that for years. Why aren't they? And what is it going

[00:14:53] Bill Wood: to take? And you are you as a politician fully committed? Are you willing to stake your career on success in improving the educational system or whatever it happens to be?

[00:14:53] Randall Roth: How good a job has the media done in holding the politicians collective feet to the fire?

[00:14:59] Bill Wood: Oh, mediocre at best. Not very good. Um there there aren't many firebrands [unintelligible — audio glitch] the media and that's probably what they would be labeled if they went after these politicians and they just kept at them and said, hey wait a minute you said this, this, and this. Why aren't you doing it? You don't see much of that. Maybe uh somebody, if he's knowledgeable enough, a reporter, will mention that uh this um was said or was promised earlier on. But um this town is heavily uh television-oriented in the media. Uh TV operates under great limitations and constraints from a time standpoint. And uh um it it again, it takes it takes uh courage for

[00:15:55] Bill Wood: any member of the media to to uh go after these problems and demand solutions.

[00:15:55] Randall Roth: Bill, you mentioned earlier that uh the community is is ready for change and um and perhaps ready to to try, at least to do something to bring about that change. And yet uh the one TV program that I'm aware of that was uh uh a regular attempt to go into these kinds of issues in depth, a dialogue program on public TV, uh is no more because of funding problems. Um how can that happen if our community is really inclined to do what we have to do in order to um accomplish some positive change?

[00:16:26] Bill Wood: No, I think [unintelligible — audio glitch] takes a little education. It takes a determined effort to try to a, convince the public that some good can be done by airing these things and by holding politicians and others to account for what they've said they were going to do. And by uh addressing some of these big issues head-on. Um because uh you know, it's it's all constructive stuff. If people say, well we mustn't talk negative things because it's not the thing to do, but it's problems when they're ignored have a way of multiplying. And uh I think if it's if it's approached, I think any politician would find this too if it's approached in a positive

[00:17:25] Bill Wood: vein um and people are convinced that uh maybe they're going to finally get something done, um then uh their interest and enthusiasm would gel and would support this.

[00:17:25] Randall Roth: I noticed you brought your crystal ball with you today. Who's going to be running for governor and what's the crystal ball say?

[00:17:32] Bill Wood: Well, that's a good question. Thank you. I don't. Uh, I think that uh Well, you want me to name two candidates? I think Pat Saiki is going to run for governor on the Republican side and Ben Cayetano on the Democratic side.

[00:17:49] Randall Roth: Isn't there another fellow on the Republican side that has a few bucks to spend that might give her a run?

[00:17:54] Bill Wood: I don't know. I don't know, I think she, I I'm not I'm not a political pundit actually. But I am told by those who claim to be political pundits that she has a very good chance of winning. Now, the Democrats are going to be very upset when I'm saying now because they'll say, we want equal time and that sort of thing but it's, uh I don't know. It'd be a very good race. I think I think it might uh something like that might, whether she wins or loses, might be very good for this place. Uh as I say, it might shake up the system enough to get people talking about it. And once they start

[00:19:00] Bill Wood: really talking about the problems, they can recognize that the that they can be solved.

[00:19:00] Bill Wood: been in power for a very long time, and therefore inevitably, you have the so-called old guard versus the new guard, and the young Turks want to carve out positions for themselves and then as power brokers or active active candidates. And so this causes little fissures to run on different directions. You never can be too sure which direction it's actually going to break, you see. Mhm. But um I think that that pressure will continue and it's healthy. Uh I would hope that for the the party, everybody's safe for that matter, that everything could be resolved in a reasonably amicable fashion so that to whoever wins uh can get on with a very big job that faces

[00:19:45] Bill Wood: them without uh having to worry about a bunch of dissonance.

[00:19:45] Randall Roth: Is there anything to the adage uh power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely?

[00:19:53] Bill Wood: Um, oh, I think so, sure. That's been pretty well proved in history. Uh, it's uh yeah, I I don't know of anybody uh in modern times anyway who was an absolute uh um dictator and ruled very well and magnanimously, at least not in this century. Um but uh I don't know that it's possible to achieve that kind of power for very long in a democratic society. It might for a time. But uh um, you know, you have to have a lot of basic confidence in the people. And I think that it's been my observation that the the politicians who have succeeded the most are those who do have that confidence in the people. And um

[00:21:03] Bill Wood: they recognize that the it's the will of the people that matters, and they conform to it. Not it may sound a little naive, but I think that's essentially so.

[00:21:03] Randall Roth: Now you're sounding like an academic. Mhm. Bill, I I know you do some writing for the Wall Street Journal, and I've seen your byline in the Pacific Business News uh quite a bit the last month or two. Uh what sorts of things are you personally doing?

[00:21:18] Bill Wood: Oh, I'm a writer and I uh I do a variety of things. Uh, I have a good time writing about a lot of things that interest me, not just in Hawaii, but uh, but um elsewhere. And uh, um, I can't imagine uh um doing anything I uh anything that I would like more like to do than to be free to to write about a lot of interesting things. And I'm a great uh fan of uh politics and uh of course business and the economy. And um, it's all very fascinating to me, and that's the people who are in it, who make it fascinating. So there's just a limitless limitless number of things to write about

[00:22:05] Bill Wood: and that uh who could ask for anything more?

[00:22:05] Randall Roth: We talk about Hawaii as being paradise. Um and certainly we residents have our our challenges, but we have evidently like living here, or we would move. Uh what about our tourists? Uh we depend a lot on them in terms of um our jobs and and other things that go with a good economy. Is Hawaii becoming less attractive as a tourist destination?

[00:22:26] Bill Wood: Well, I don't know. You could find an element of those in the business who say, yes, definitely. I know some uh people who have lived here all their lives or or one person in particular who grew up here and left for 20 years or so, came back and was shocked what she she found and uh uh and I'm sure there are tourists who have been coming here for many many years who feel that Hawaii has lost a lot of its charm and that comes with growth. Um and the things that go with growth. Um, I think I've heard it described by people who are far more expert at uh researching the the tourist industry than

[00:24:01] Bill Wood: I am uh who say uh, a a destination area goes through a a bell shaped curve in its development. Uh, the upswing is the period of discovery when people come back because there's so much that they haven't seen before. And then at the peak, why, it's reaching maturity. And Hawaii has certainly reached that point uh because we're getting more returned visitors than first time visitors by a considerable margin now. It's a it's a curve that is is diverging. And uh the question then becomes, well, uh is this uh a a bad thing in the long run because sooner or later you're going to run out of first-time visitors and then people who keep coming back

[00:24:01] Bill Wood: will maybe want to go someplace else now and then.

[00:24:01] Bill Wood: But Hawaii has always done pretty well in this area. Um we get a lot of repeat visitors because people think this is the best place they can spend a vacation. And uh for a lot of good reasons. I don't think we can ever let down our guard. We must always be working at improving the place. And it's certainly nothing we can take for granted. I mean, that's been proved uh several times including very very recently. But um it's something we have to keep working at.

[00:24:30] Randall Roth: Is Hawaii becoming less Hawaiian? Are we losing uh the the uniqueness, the Hawaiiana that that perhaps makes us different than a a Mexico or some other destination?

[00:24:42] Bill Wood: Um in balance, I don't think so because we're working at it, you see. Mhm. Mhm. With the Renaissance of classical Hawaiian with of the culture as seen through the hula and a lot of other things. Um we uh I think the the Native Hawaiians have an identity that they haven't had in a very long time. And um and that's to the good and I think keeping it in a tourism perspective, I think that's definitely the way to go because uh many tourists are very interested in this aspect, and it gives Hawaii a dimension that not too many other places have. I don't think Mexico is anywhere near getting to that point yet. They're a little

[00:25:46] Bill Wood: afraid of letting the people loose on [unintelligible — audio glitch] foreign visitors loose on the countryside. I mean, you know, Montezuma's revenge stocks, you see.

[00:25:46] Randall Roth: Well, since we're talking about uh tourism, what about the convention center? Uh all I can seemingly read about in the newspaper is the difficulty the legislature seems to have in deciding where to put it. Number one, should we have one? Number two, is it the state's job to provide it? And uh what other insights do you have?

[00:26:05] Bill Wood: Uh yes on both. I believe uh yes, we should have it. Um it's been demonstrated that uh not having a an adequate convention center in size, big enough to handle fairly good sized conventions. Um not having one uh uh limits our appeal to um this kind of a visitor traffic. And uh the convention going visitor traffic is, and again, been proved to be uh among the best you can get, the people who stay longer and spend more and things like that, and they're very beneficial. Um those who are in the visitor industry who of course are in favor of the convention center point out that had we had one in place by now, we wouldn't

[00:27:20] Bill Wood: be suffering as we have in the last two and a half years or so from a decline in overall visitors. Um, that may be so. Uh yeah, I think we should. I think [unintelligible — audio glitch] it's about time that we committed uh wholeheartedly to the fact of life that tourism is and will likely remain the number one industry in the state indefinitely.

[00:27:20] Bill Wood: Um and uh we need everything within reason that we can do to make uh this a viable um destination uh for many many years to come.

[00:27:34] Randall Roth: Well, Bill, we've got about one minute left. Can you tell us what's uh going to replace tourism if we are in this bell curve, and if it is going to eventually decline?

[00:27:44] Bill Wood: Yeah, but there's nothing that says you've got to go down the other side, you see. We can stand at the top as everybody who who has who has used this this little explanation uh points out, you don't have to go down once you get over to the top. You go on to the but you've got to really work at it. You have got to change.

[00:28:02] Randall Roth: Have we come full circle? Uh at the beginning of our discussion, you were saying that perhaps government needs to plan better. Is uh standing at the top of that curve rather than sliding down related to planning?

[00:28:13] Bill Wood: Oh, definitely. Definitely. It's [unintelligible — audio glitch] related to something that they're really beginning to talk about. I hope in earnest, between a partnership between government and the private sector. I mean a real partnership where they plan jointly and they concur and um

[00:29:31] Randall Roth: Is the private sector ready to do that?

[00:29:33] Bill Wood: No, I think so, sure. Is government ready to do that? I hope so. That's the $64 question, you see.

[00:29:39] Randall Roth: Well, let's send them a copy of this tape and um invite them to take part in that discussion. Bill, thanks a lot for being our guest today. My pleasure.