Open Forum
Price of Paradise · Hawaii Public Radio · aired 1995-02-26
Guests: Jerry Burris (Editorial Page Editor, The Honolulu Advertiser)
Duration: 1:09:03

[00:00:00] Randall Roth: Good morning. Price of Paradise radio show. Today's guest is Jerry Burris, editorial page editor of the Honolulu Advertiser. He's here to share his thoughts about a variety of current events and as always listeners are invited to ask questions or make comments by calling 955-8821. Neighbor Islanders are invited to call collect, the number again 955-8821. Jerry, good morning.
[00:00:25] Jerry Burris: Good morning.
[00:00:26] Randall Roth: I assume Sunday morning 7:30 isn't your normal working day.
[00:00:30] Jerry Burris: No, it isn't. Well it's my normal working day, but not on Sundays.
[00:00:33] Randall Roth: You mentioned when you got here this morning that it was kind of interesting driving in. Could you share that with us?
[00:00:39] Jerry Burris: It was sort of striking. I I guess, as I was saying, I was on automatic pilot, thinking I was just going to work on a normal day, so I took my route to work, which wasn't directly here to the station. And driving along I noticed that in the morning, on Sunday morning, you don't see many people on the street other than the homeless, and I think for it's it was kind of striking to me how how the homeless people popped out of the background, because there aren't the normal crowds around.
[00:01:01] Jerry Burris: And on almost every block there be one or two people standing there or sitting on the sidewalk or walking along, you know, and obviously not with no place to be. And so I think it it helped dramatize to me how many people are out there that you don't see over the normal course of the day. So I might be instructive for people sometimes to go out and take a look at what's going on in our streets.
[00:01:20] Randall Roth: Does that particular issue get the kind of attention in the media that it should or does it get the different sort of attention than it should?
[00:01:27] Jerry Burris: Well, I I think what happens is what struck me was we we do a lot of stories about the homeless, and stories about homeless shelters, and are they in the right place, and not in my backyard stories, and and attempts to find ways to get people off the homeless rolls and so forth. But we tend to think of it as as a congregated institutionalized sort of situation. I don't think we we think of it or report about it or or consider it in terms of something is woven through the whole town, and that's what it really is. And we don't also think of Honolulu as being a place with a lot of street people.
[00:01:58] Jerry Burris: You know, you go to the mainland in some cities and you see them pretty heavily and here, we tend not to think that they're there. But when you take out the normal popular or the the the homed population, the the and take them out and leave just the homeless, you're struck by how many are there.
[00:02:12] Randall Roth: Well, I know you're editorial page editor now at the Advertiser, but for many years you were the political guy. Uh, a lot of politics going on right now. Legislature is in session, and a number of things are being discussed. What are some of the high points to mention?
[00:02:28] Jerry Burris: Well, I don't know if it's a high point or not, but it kind of is ironic to me and and in a way, sort of too bad that this session where the number one story of course is, there's no money and how can we deal with no money, and what are we going to cut, and how are we going to adjust to a budget shortfall. And somehow the dominant stories turn out to be a pay raise for legislators, which is a real distraction and sort of a shame. Uh, in their defense, it isn't really their decision that that comes up this year. The Constitution requires a review every eight years and this is the cycle.
[00:02:55] Jerry Burris: So they're on it and I think most people are probably going to think that, my goodness, when you're cutting budgets and you're cutting programs, this is no time to give a pay raise to these guys down there at the legislature. But I think you have to look at the fact that they haven't had a pay raise in four years and if nothing happens this year, it'll be eight more years before another opportunity comes around, and I think, even for your friendly legislator, I think 10 years between pay raises is a little long. So I think something might be in order.
[00:03:22] Randall Roth: What about the related issue of of whether that should be made a full-time job? Currently, it's it's described as part-time. There are several members of the legislature who have told me that you simply can't do it on a part-time basis. You have to work at it year-round. Uh, should it be a full-time job?
[00:03:37] Jerry Burris: I don't like that idea. I I like the idea at least philosophically or conceptually, of having people uh, have some other kind of life, you know, some sort of foot in the real world as well as in the legislature and and a lot of them do, you know, they, of course, you can't have a 9 to 5 salary job pretty much unless your employer is a bank or utility or someone who is willing to let you take three months off a year.
[00:03:59] Jerry Burris: But if you make it full-time, then you're going to get people who are focused on being a legislator as a career, as a, as a job avocation, as opposed to someone who's interested in, in public service and helping create good laws and so forth. And I know it's not perfect this way. They're careerists in there already.
[00:04:14] Randall Roth: Well, I was going to say, I've had several people in the legislature say, you can't live on $32,000 a year as if that is their full-time profession and sole income.
[00:04:26] Jerry Burris: It'd be difficult. I mean, $32,000 may sound like a a fair amount of money, but imagine yourself trying to maintain a mortgage and feed a family on $32,000. I don't think many people can get get along very well on $32,000.
[00:04:37] Randall Roth: But I thought I heard you say a little bit ago that that's good in the sense that this way will get people who are out doing other things that aren't just politicians.
[00:04:45] Jerry Burris: That's right. That's that's what I am saying is that that I think their legislative salary deserves some sort of increase to just keep up with the times, but it should always be thought of as a part-time salary. They should have some other, uh there's young people in there who are maybe just starting out in life, and that's fine, but as time goes on, people have to get some other sort of interest, and I think I actually, I think that's healthy.
[00:05:05] Randall Roth: Okay. Well, I know you talked to Governor Cayetano just a day or two ago, and uh asked him a number of questions. How would you rate the job that the governor's doing thus far?
[00:05:14] Jerry Burris: Well, you know, it's funny uh and uh you wouldn't you wouldn't think this would be the case, but he came in and and found a pretty grim situation in terms of how much money there was to spend, and the size of the state government. And as opposed to his predecessor who came in sort of on on a on a high wave of income and and taxes and was able to start doing a million things all at once. Dramatic difference. It really is. But I think Cayetano both philosophically and as a matter of style sort of likes this challenge.
[00:05:41] Jerry Burris: I mean he he is sitting there saying, "Hey, you know, this is how it is," and and he enjoys the the opportunity to show that he's tough enough to deal with it. And I think people will be surprised at at how tough he is on some things. Although the first the first time it really stared him in the face, he backed down a little, I don't know if uh people follow the story of of the first actual, realistic, uh example of what will happen with these state budget cuts was the libraries.
[00:06:06] Jerry Burris: Bart Kane said he's going to have to cut back hours and actually lay off some of the library workers and the tough luck, you know, that's everyone has to take their cuts. And then he had a meeting with the Cayetano the other day and the money was found. The money was found. Not a lot of money was found, but some money was found. In a way, I think that was a a bad signal. I mean, the governor defends that saying, well, I was close to letting libraries be exempt from the cuts anyway, because that's such a critical service.
[00:06:30] Jerry Burris: And really, it was a mininimum amount of money and basically all I did was keep a few six warm bodies alive for another year. But the signal he was sending in that case was, when push comes to shove, if you get right in his face and say, this is what it means, governor, he's going to find a way to back down a little bit. And so he's going to have to be doubly tough on the next one I think, to to show that he means it.
[00:06:49] Randall Roth: What do you think of his appointments so far?
[00:06:51] Jerry Burris: Well, you know, the the it's funny, we were talking about that and and one of my colleagues was saying, you know, I don't know who a lot of these people are. I mean, what a bunch of nobodies. And then, and and I said, well, I thought we were sort of at demanding that he reach out in the community and get some people who aren't the same old gang of people that you normally expect to be putting government offices.
[00:07:12] Randall Roth: So they're the the old boys and the nobodies and he's got some nobodies, right?
[00:07:15] Jerry Burris: And I think the nobodies is is the right way to go. I think uh what he says, he was looking for is people who had a commitment to a certain uh to his ideas about how government should go. People who had a commitment to uh not being intimidated by the bureaucracy, and people who had a clear vision of what their their department would be doing. And I think uh in that in that sense, he chose people who impressed him that way, that maybe weren't experienced, and he he's the first to admit that a lot of his department head is very inexperienced in the wiles of government.
[00:07:45] Jerry Burris: And there's people buried down in the bureaucracy who, you know, are just waiting in in wait for them to chew them up and uh, you know, show him show their new bosses that uh they can't conquer the bureaucracy. But I think they'll learn, and I think if their vision, if their idea of what they're trying to do with the department, is clear enough that uh they can drag the whole thing along with them. I think right now he's he's pleased that there are a few like uh uh Kazu Hayashida and a few others who are old-timers at government, who really know how to deal with with the way government works.
[00:08:14] Jerry Burris: And he's kind of relying on them, but I think as the newcomers learn the ropes, and get more experienced, I think that uh that their ideas will start to apply and that'll work.
[00:08:22] Randall Roth: Okay. In case you joined us late, this is the Price of Paradise Radio show. I'm Randy Roth, and my guest today is Jerry Burris, the editorial page editor for the Honolulu Advertiser. We're talking about a wide range of topics. Let's just call it our open forum, and we want to hear from you. Please call 955-8821 to ask Jerry a question or to share your own thought about a topic of current interest. The number again, 955-8821. Some more thoughts on Governor Cayetano.
[00:08:51] Jerry Burris: Well, the other thing that uh it was kind of interesting is is is uh it is his relationship with the legislature. You know, he was in the legislature for all these years and he knows the way it works. And uh and it was striking that uh right in the first few weeks of the session, there were some complaints from individual lawmakers that, hey, this guy isn't isn't cooperating with us, isn't getting along. I think his friend, Donnie Cade, even called him a dictator. Yeah. And that was a reference to his sending down something or sending down a message or an appointment or something without checking with them first.
[00:09:22] Jerry Burris: And what I think what you're seeing here is a real difference in style between Cayetano and Waihee, who was a consummate schmoozer, and consummate, you know, making sure that everyone understood what he was doing and he would spend a lot of time going into legislators offices, or meeting with them, and, you know, talking things up before he officially and formally notified them. And they got used to that style. Cayetano came in and decided, well, he's just going to start saying what he believes and sending down stuff and they were, oh, what is all this? And you know, you're not being fair to us.
[00:09:52] Jerry Burris: And I think uh he realizes he needs to change his style a little bit. He's started having these breakfasts with legislators and uh but it's just a difference of style, you know, but it'll be interesting as the session we're on to see whether he can kind of achieve an operating relationship with with the legislature, which is very, very important. Uh, in this system, you know, there are individual dukedoms and princelings and things down there that won't won't uh they have to be catered to or or nothing will happen, no matter how good it is.
[00:10:22] Randall Roth: You you mentioned uh former Governor Waihee. Right now it seems as though the in thing is to blame everything on the last administration and um in fact, I'm told that Governor Cayetano is often times being critical of the last administration, which he was a part of. Uh is is that normal? Is that to be expected, or is there something unique here?
[00:10:43] Jerry Burris: No, I think it's uh it's it's inevitable that. And to a degree, I think uh although he's diplomatic, I think that Cayetano feels that things did get a little bit out of hand and a little bit, uh well he used the word bloated. And there was a lot of money around and a lot of uh opportunities to expand things and for good and for ill. And it was just a time when things grew faster than than anyone really knew. So he he does tend to blame the previous administration.
[00:11:11] Jerry Burris: He thinks that uh he has some sort of uh backhanded praise for former Governor Ariyoshi, the previous governor, who uh, whatever you can say positive or negative, kept a pretty tight hand on the budget and never let things get out of hand. And uh Governor Waihee came in with a lot of money and a lot of ideas and a lot of energy and started spending and now Cayetano is kind of turning the cycle around again.
[00:11:33] Randall Roth: Okay. Well, we have a caller from the Big Island, Flora. Good morning, Flora.
[00:11:37] Flora: Good morning.
[00:11:38] Randall Roth: How are you today?
[00:11:39] Flora: Hi, I like your program a lot.
[00:11:40] Randall Roth: Good.
[00:11:41] Flora: Um, I want to ask the uh Jerry Burris if he thinks that there's been a change in the mood of the public as well as the legislature as reflected in the recent reform on um insurance, the fact that you can't sue for certain things that you used to be able to that you currently do now and the fact that the people are beginning to understand that there's a cost to our litigious uh society. Um, what does he think of that?
[00:12:07] Randall Roth: Okay, and I might just mention in this morning's Advertiser uh there are a couple pieces, I believe Bob Toyofuku on the one side, and and um uh, who who wrote the other side, do you remember?
[00:12:19] Jerry Burris: Um Rick Tsujimura from State Farm, I think.
[00:12:21] Randall Roth: Uh, what are your thoughts?
[00:12:23] Jerry Burris: Well, uh to begin uh I think you're referring to the bill that passed the Senate that would uh abolish the right to sue an automobile insurance, that the one you're talking about? Yeah. Of course, it hasn't passed the legislature yet, but the idea that even in in a state run by lawyers, that this could even happen. Yeah, this is this pardon me, Randy, but is this a an example of the lawyers have finally lost control somewhere? Well, so so listeners understand, I guess at the heart of this bill, it prohibits lawsuits as a result of uh car accidents. It would, it would and of course, the the plantiff's lawyers are are aghast at this.
[00:12:58] Jerry Burris: And I to tell you the truth, I'm not convinced the thing is going to pass the legislature. I think uh by the time the House gets through with it and and the rest of it, that it probably won't pass, but I uh I agree with you, it was kind of a striking thing to see a body of the legislature pass a law that says flat out, people cannot sue in this incident. In this kind of situation, I think it was pretty striking.
[00:13:19] Randall Roth: Well, and and if uh if it does get enacted, one wonders uh why similar things in other areas wouldn't be done. In other words, if uh if we want to prevent people from suing for this, why not prevent them for suing for that?
[00:13:34] Jerry Burris: It could happen. I think that that the pressure point of course is no-fault insurance, auto insurance, so this is likely that it'll be the first one. You have to remember too though that the governor is a plaintiff lawyer and it's deep in his heart that uh that that the right to sue is an important right and I have my doubts that he would even sign a bill like that if it got to him.
[00:13:52] Randall Roth: Okay. Flora, any thoughts on that?
[00:13:54] Flora: Well, I just wonder if there do you think that the general public understands that there is a cost and that's reflected in that 30% drop in in the insurance. This is reflected throughout our society.
[00:14:04] Randall Roth: Well, and I think uh in Rick's piece this morning in the Advertiser, he said uh you know this system based on on fault is very expensive. Um, Jerry?
[00:14:14] Jerry Burris: It is. And and it's not and in a way, it's not that radical that that they would do away with the right to sue in no-fault, if you think about it. Similar thing was done with workers compensation where they just workers gave up the right to sue and there was a a substitute system was put in. So it's not like it's unique in terms of settling uh injuries and grievances and things.
[00:14:34] Randall Roth: And I guess a devil's advocate would say, but that hasn't worked very well, has it? It doesn't work very well so. Flora, thank you for your call.
[00:14:41] Flora: Thanks.
[00:14:42] Randall Roth: Uh, we have a caller from Hawaii Kai, Cynthia. Good morning, Cynthia.
[00:14:46] Cynthia: Good morning, Randy and Jerry. This is Cynthia Bond. I'm the personnel director for the city.
[00:14:51] Randall Roth: Okay. Good morning.
[00:14:52] Jerry Burris: Good morning.
[00:14:52] Cynthia: Good morning. Um, I have a comment for Mr. Burris.
[00:14:55] Randall Roth: Yes.
[00:14:56] Cynthia: Uh this morning's uh advertiser had an editorial regarding the fire situation and there was something that needs to be clarified. I fully agree with the editorial that there's a lot of confusion as to facts. Um, why did the mayor ask Corporation Council Darilyn Lendio to inquire into whether Chief Sedumok did anything improper on quote, "altering" uh, interview scores. Uh, when he wouldn't direct her or he he prohibited her from looking into other allegations as to promotion issues.
[00:15:28] Randall Roth: On on the grounds that there was a litigation threatened or something, yeah?
[00:15:32] Cynthia: Right. And the reason is, there are two cases, one which was thrown out of court and is now before the Civil Service Commission, that involves battalion chief promotions. There's another case that may be reopened. It was settled and may be reopened. So it's possible litigation involving a captain issue. But the allegation of changing a score was a separate selection process.
[00:15:52] Randall Roth: And not part of any current No, not in any litigation. Not challenged in any forum. Cynthia, appreciate that. Let me ask Jerry to to give our listeners a little bit of background in terms of what at least uh has been covered in in the newspaper uh about the fire department, uh to give some context to this.
[00:16:10] Jerry Burris: Okay. I hope I don't sound more confused than I did in the editorial.
[00:16:13] Randall Roth: No. I just want to clarify that point.
[00:16:15] Jerry Burris: Uh, the the picture as we see it, and of course, we're only seeing it really from the outside, is uh is some political struggling going on within the department. Obviously, there are cliques or factions, there appear to be cliques or factions that are not happy with each other. And those cliques or factions, from our perspective, tend to relate to whether groups of firefighters support individuals for mayor or for political office. And it's created some tension within the department that seems to be showing itself in terms of finger pointing, and hey, this guy did this, and I alleged that this guy did that. And that's the sort of thing that's boiling out to the surface.
[00:16:54] Jerry Burris: And the ongoing theme in the editorials has been that, that A, we don't think the politics has any place in the fire department, just as it doesn't in the police department or some of these other public safety agencies. And B, that someone needs to find out which of these allegations, and obviously some of them are not true, are true and get them resolved as quickly as possible because this is a terrific fire department and uh and everyone relies on it and and to have public confidence hurt by the fact that they're fighting with each other rather than fighting fires, I think is a terrible situation.
[00:17:25] Cynthia: I think that's a very fair assessment.
[00:17:27] Randall Roth: Okay. Thank you for for calling in and for sharing your thoughts.
[00:17:31] Cynthia: Thank you.
[00:17:32] Randall Roth: We have several more callers on the line. Joe from Honolulu. Good morning, Joe.
[00:17:36] Joe: Good morning. Um, I heard a comment uh, some I think Jerry said that Cayetano was a part of the uh Waihee administration. It's my impression that uh uh Cayetano was completely shut out uh uh of doing anything for Waihee and there was um uh distrust there and uh Waihee did not allow Cayetano any authority or power. Uh and uh so uh I wonder if you could really say that Cayetano was a part of the uh Waihee administration.
[00:18:09] Randall Roth: Let's let's ask Jerry to respond to that. We'll let's have him respond to that first, Joe, and then I'll come back to you.
[00:18:14] Jerry Burris: I can't keep two thoughts in my mind at the same time. So, Joe, let me do one at a time. Uh I think it is fair to say he was part of the Waihee administration. Obviously, he wasn't totally trusted and there was certain disagreements between them and and certain amount of tension, but uh if you look at there were some assignments that Waihee did give to Cayetano that gave him quite a bit of visibility, the A+ assignment, uh the leasehold reform assignment, and the education reform Council that he headed. So he did get some substantive assignments from the governor.
[00:18:44] Jerry Burris: And uh, and while there were tensions, I think you're correct about that. There was also a fair amount of involvement. You compare Cayetano to say the Jean King with George Ariyoshi, or Nelson Doi with George Ariyoshi, or almost any Lieutenant Governor, you could, Tom Gill with Jack Burns, uh
[00:19:00] Randall Roth: relationship, at least at a at a official level, had a much better working system than some of the others did.
[00:19:07] Jerry Burris: What do you see about the relationship now between uh the governor and his uh and and the Lieutenant Governor. Is this going to be a little more intimate? Uh I think the worst then was was it was the Gill Burns relationship. That was that that was probably the furthest apart. Uh how do you think uh this new relationship is going to rate in the history of relationships.
[00:19:29] Randall Roth: at the moment it looks terrific. I mean, uh and and, you know, there's no in politics people will say, my colleague, the Lieutenant Governor and there's the nice stuff that people say, but you can hear Kai Tano referring to Maze Hirano, uh at times when he's not just trying to soft soap that he it gets clear that that she's in his mind as a partner in some of these things, especially in the insurance things that they're trying to tackle. Uh obviously you've been around long enough to know that that Lieutenant Governors and Governors don't always get along but at this looks pretty good so far.
[00:20:26] Randall Roth: Okay. Thanks for the phrase non-politician, that was I was trying to look for earlier. That a little better than nobody. Thank you, Joe. We appreciate your call. We have David from the Big Island on the line. Good morning, David.
[00:20:37] David: Good morning, Randy. I'd like to follow up a little bit on what your first call talked about the no fault insurance. Um besides saving us one-third by eliminating the legal end of insurance claims, it also solves the problem of the uninsured motorist on the road, because with pure no fault you ensure yourself, your insurance company pays you in an accident. So, if you're involved with an uninsured motorist, he hurts himself, he doesn't hurt you.
[00:21:08] Randall Roth: Interesting point, Jerry Burris.
[00:21:10] Jerry Burris: That's true, and I think that's one of the strongest arguments for it. Uh the only, I don't know if you saw the thing little thing we ran in the paper today, but the the Plato's lawyers still point out that and the the one little lingering doubt that I have is there is the rare and occasional catastrophic situation where a promising young uh person is badly hurt and maybe as a paraplegic for the rest of their life and and the $250,000 limit or whatever they have in there, really isn't adequate to to replace what they lose for their whole life and at at some level, there should be some way to recover, I guess. I'm not sure. I I I I'm I'm like you, I'm sort of lean in the direction of pure no fault and just get this out of the courts entirely. But that that point that they raise does cause some doubts in my mind sometimes.
[00:21:56] Jerry Burris: But if you have one possibility of suing, then everybody has to carry liability insurance too.
[00:22:02] Randall Roth: That's true. That's a good point.
[00:22:03] Jerry Burris: The the other thing, Hawaii is in a unique position to do this because we have no borders with other states. So everybody who in this state will be driving under the same game plan as it were, whereas every other state has other people driving through on different insurance plans, so they really can't do that.
[00:22:20] Randall Roth: That's right, and that's also an argument that some people use in defense of pay at the pump that uh that's a way to capture everyone too. I'm not sure that would work bureaucratically.
[00:22:30] Jerry Burris: When you mention that it brings up one last point I want to bring up. Um with pure no fault, you still have the problem of a driver hitting a pedestrian and the pedestrian obviously doesn't have insurance. So drivers should carry liability only for the the possibility of hitting a pedestrian or a bike or something. That could be paid for at the pump with a very minimal amount of maybe a penny or two on the on the gallon.
[00:22:55] Randall Roth: Some sort of state fund of some kind. Yeah. Okay. David, thank you very much. I appreciate your call. You're listening to the Price of Paradise Radio Show. I'm Randy Roth, and my guest today is Jerry Burris, the editorial page editor of the Honolulu Advertiser. We have an open forum this morning. We're talking about a wide range of topics and we'd like to hear from you. To ask Jerry a question or to share your own thought about a topic of current interest, just call 955-8821. And again, neighbor islanders are always invited to call collect, the number 955-8821.
[00:23:29] Randall Roth: Jerry, we had a caller earlier Cynthia, who uh clarified one point having to do with the the fire department and you provided some background. Um just how political are things in the fire department do you think and and what's the cause of that? Is that something new? Or is that been there a long time and what are the prospects for change?
[00:23:49] Jerry Burris: I think it's a tradition, and and maybe that's the problem. And and when the tradition was is that the fire department acted as sort of shock troops, political shock troops for the mayor, that was probably, he didn't, there wasn't internal tension because they were all working for the same guy pretty much. But we had this unique situation where we had several people running for mayor and the department kind of divided itself up and that's when it boiled over. Uh I think probably in old times, you know, the idea of firefighters are good cooks, you know, they have kitchens, they know how to get organized. They have a lot of free time when they when they're on duty, they're on duty, but when they're off duty, they have a couple of days. So they were logical people to kind of on campaigns, but I think we're in an age now where where that kind of system should be dropped. I mean, I think the professional public safety people and I just don't think it's appropriate for them to be worried about where their political allegiance go. I mean, it's I mean, if you if you want to use an analogy, when you think about the police department, you'd hate to think that the police had to spend a lot of their time thinking about being politically supportive of one person or another. And I think to the degree that to a certain degree, anyway, that the police department is less political here than the fire department, and I think that's where the fire department needs to go, and I think most firefighters would probably like to go in that direction.
[00:25:04] Randall Roth: Okay. We have several callers on the line. First, Duke from Waikiki. Good morning, Duke.
[00:25:07] Duke: Good morning. Uh Jerry, I'd like to ask you as an editorial uh writer, when you have your facts in the newspaper on the other pages, you have to be pretty sure of what you say. On the editorial page, it seems to be a little bit more freedom where it's opinion and especially when you get your letters to the editor. What uh when you're bucking up against the the First Amendment, what are the limits? I mean, you can't, you know, you know, fire in a theater and stuff. Are there any limits to uh the freedom of speech, especially as an editorial content where it's just your opinion, like you may call uh the governor a thief because he stole And not stole, but he used money uh on one program versus another and a taxpayer thought that, you know, your you know, very loosely you can say, well, he stole my money for that program. You see what I'm saying?
[00:25:58] Randall Roth: Yeah, I do. And and there's there is more freedom to say things in there. I mean, there's the fair comment idea that uh where you're you're allowed to express opinion which someone else can violently disagree with and just think is a terrible thing to say, but but the first amendment allows people to express opinion. And you mentioned letters which is I think really important, which is a real tension point for me, where people write in and I bend over backward to let the letter writer say what he wants to say. Uh, obviously, if it's clearly libelous or clearly just terribly unfactual, we have to we have to edit it out or change it, but uh we we tend to let the letter writers push as close to the limit as possible because that that's their place, that's their place to express themselves.
[00:26:38] Duke: Yeah. Well, what is what do you mean uh clearly liable?
[00:26:42] Randall Roth: Well, I mean it's a judgment call, right? Yeah, it's a judgment call but if if someone wrote in and said that uh uh that Jerry Burris is is a bank robber and uh and a and an embezzler and I know that for a fact I would and if I knew that that wasn't true I wouldn't let it get in because [unintelligible — audio glitch] could be libelous. Mhm. But if someone wrote in and said that he's a fool and doesn't know what he's talking about, I think that's perfectly fair. Maybe even true sometimes. I've heard people say that. I've said that. Thank you, Duke. We have a call from Makiki. Eugene, good morning.
[00:27:15] Eugene: Eugene from Makiki? Good morning. Good morning. On the air. Uh Speaker Suki and President Mizuguchi in their address at the beginning of this year's legislature, both talked about restoring confidence in our legislators. Now, I understand that Governor Cayetano's proposal to make a change in the high three rule regarding state pensions was quietly buried in our legislature. So I have so much for restoring our confidence. I may have missed it, but I didn't see any editorial in the advertiser since the opening of the legislature regarding this high three rule.
[00:28:10] Randall Roth: Well, let's let's get a personal, on the spot, live editorial. Jerry Burris This is this is live and direct from the editorial department right now, Eugene. Uh we did. Uh probably not enough. I I really appreciate what you just said because I think that was a real important one. When early in the session we did one editorial pointing out the fact that the Kai Tano administration had put in a bill to change this high three situation. Right. And uh in an editorial a day or two ago on or I don't know maybe it hasn't run yet. This is the weekend. I don't think it's run because I've I've been looking for it. Yeah. Watch tomorrow's newspaper then. All right. But no there's an editorial on on pay raises and uh basically we come down saying that in some way I think we they deserve a little bit of a pay adjustment, but we also say that the best case they can make for a pay raise would be to pass that high three thing so that they get rid of the back door uh way of padding their pockets and be direct about it. Um so I'm in totally in agreement with you. Thank you. And I think if they if they could if they could reform the high three thing now, I think people would be much more likely to accept some sort of pay hike. Oh I think you're right. Okay. Thank you.
[00:28:54] Randall Roth: Eugene, thank you. Yes, bye. In case you joined us late, you're listening to the Price of Paradise Radio Show. I'm Randy Roth, and my guest today is Jerry Burris, the editorial page editor for the Honolulu Advertiser. We're talking about a wide range of topics and your calls are welcome. The number is 955-8821.
[00:29:00] Jerry Burris: Yeah, well I think uh I think we're looking forward to a governor who is going to probably uh probably be one of the best we've ever had from what his what his track record is now, especially from his appointments are, are really how uh really stunning uh of non-politicians, people who are really interested in the substance of the work. Uh I'm very impressed and uh I trust that uh he's going to be a superb governor.
[00:29:12] Randall Roth: Jerry, my current frustration is that the show's producer, Susie Roth and I have been trying real hard to put together a program on gambling. And it's real easy to find articulate folks who are willing to talk against legalized gambling. Real tough to find anybody who has a credible voice to talk in favor of legalized gambling, including the people in the legislature who seem to be supporting it. First of all, what's the advertiser's position on legalized gambling? And secondly, why wouldn't the proponents, especially the people in the legislature, why wouldn't they be talking publicly about it?
[00:29:51] Jerry Burris: Uh the second part of it is a lot tougher to answer. Uh we are we've taken a position editorially that we don't think a why should have gambling. Uh not strictly on a moralistic sort of thing, uh but just on the idea that that it would it wouldn't add that much and it would detract from something that's special about Hawaii. The fact that this is a place where you come for other reasons. Uh so we just don't see any real value in it. And plus it's a it's a quick fix sort of solution to people only talk about gambling when the budget is tight and this will fix it and and I don't think it will. Other states have found that after the first flush that this thing settles down and just becomes part of the the general economic mix. So we're against it. And why why won't the proponents speak? I think uh I suppose in some degree like uh Senator Mizuguchi is wants uh on board ship casino gambling and he's probably a little busy and difficult to to spend a lot of time defending this thing because he knows that that the passion on the other side is so high that it just doesn't make sense to stick his neck out and be attacked. [unintelligible — audio glitch] an it's sort of like gun control and some of these other issues where where one side has all the passion and the other has some objective reasons for liking or disliking things, but it's a tough one to get in the middle of.
[00:31:44] Randall Roth: This is listeners earlier in your show you indicated that uh Mr. Burris noticed a lot of homeless people on the street. Uh it's also a fact that the housing people have uh refused to take any more applications since they have 7,000 on file now. I was wondering whether Mr. Burris believes that the current administration will do anything about the housing problem. You're talking this applicat- You're talking about the section 8 that Yes. subsidized rental housing.
[00:35:02] Jerry Burris: That's well, subsidized rentals in general. Yeah. Uh I I I hope that they do. Uh it's uh in the in the previous city administration, there was a lot of effort applied toward creating uh market housing or for for purchase housing, you know, West Lock and single-family homes and apartments downtown that that middle middle-income people at any rate could buy. And I think if if money is tight that what they should focus on and what I hope they'll start focusing on is whatever little bit of money they have is on that bottom rung and getting people sheltered, you know. So at the moment it's just a hope rather than an a an expectation. I I'd say that's fair. Uh it's not as much fun you know to build housing for homeless people as it is to build uh houses along a golf course. That's for sure. And you know and and we need it all of course, but uh uh I think the the proper rule for government is at the low end. Mhm. Okay, thank you very much. Thank you, thank you, Arthur. Bye. Uh Jerry, something related to that that's been in the paper in the last couple of days is that as I understand it some of the affordable housing units that were sold over the last few years that been below market prices where the city had kept an option to buy back if the original purchaser had wanted to um to sell out. Uh that that something's gone wrong with that program in a way. The city's run out of some money and as a result there's some folks who are enjoying windfalls as a result of participating in the program. Um what are your thoughts on it? I don't understand how that could happen. I mean, I I understand what the story was that they that the pool of money they have to buy it back at the at the uh depressed price has run dry, but it seems to me they could create some sort of an escrow situation or something that uh I mean if I was a person who bought into a a subsidized house and then sold back under the buyback rules and got my little bit of profit but not much and then my neighbor, six months later, sold and got a windfall, I'd be furious. And and it kind of destroys the whole idea of keeping a pool of of below market housing on the market. Seems to me that and it's not really a it's not really a cost issue to the city because It's financing I It's financing. Buy low, sell high. Yeah, and there should be a way of creating some sort of an escrow fund, and I'm sure they're going to find a way to do it because otherwise you just blow the whole idea of this program out of the water. Yeah, I think you're probably right. Something that was on the front page of the Advertiser this morning has to do with the Bishop estate and a Texas land deal and evidently, uh a lot of money was invested on behalf of the estate while the trustees and a number of staff people at Bishop Estate were investing uh personally. Uh what are your thoughts on this? It's it's incredibly complex and I'm not sure I don't really understand the the technicality like we were talking about earlier, the technicalities of the deal itself. Uh the thing that that struck me that seemed to be could be a problem is you have the estate as an institution as a trust investing and then you have the individual individuals from the estate and and people associated with them also investing and to a layman, it seems like
[00:38:00] Speaker 1: it could be hard for them to keep their personal interests and the estate's interest separate, that there would be conflicts and confusions and, well, it could come up to a point where a decision would be, well, in the best interest of the estate, we should do X, Y and Z, but that would hurt my own pocketbook interests, so let's not do that.
[00:38:16] Speaker 2: Or maybe we should do with our individual interests what needs to be done first, and then do what has to be done. And it's not it's not that that it implies that people are crooked or anything, but it's just human nature is that you tend to want to protect yourself first, and it's just, uh, I'm just a little surprised they put themselves in that position.
[00:38:34] Speaker 1: You know, another show that Suzie and I have been trying to put together is one on the Bishop Estate and we've been hoping to have one or two of the trustees here to respond to people's questions and and comments, but, uh, we're we're coming up empty-handed.
[00:38:48] Speaker 2: What has your experience been in terms of of getting information from the Bishop Estate and and getting contact, um, with the trustee?
[00:38:56] Speaker 1: It it's been different over the years. Uh, several years ago, not too many years ago, it was it was practically like the Kremlin. I mean, you knew nothing about what was going on in there and and they spoke very little and there was virtually no public contact. And and in the last several years, they recognized that, uh, they needed to start speaking out themselves as they came under attack on the leasehold issue and the rest of it.
[00:39:17] Speaker 1: And so they became more aggressive, you see ads in the newspapers all the time where they are very forceful ads putting out their position and, uh, some of the trustees, especially Aus Stender, has made himself available to explain things and the thinking, and they've create upgraded their their public relations, uh, efforts, and and they've been reaching out a lot more. They're still somewhat closed, and I think that's because they feel that there's an underground of hostility toward the estate out there and they don't want, it's the same thing with the gambling, they don't want to put themselves too high out of a profile because they know that people will pound on them.
[00:39:50] Speaker 1: And to some degree, I think that's unfair, too. I mean, people are mad at them because they're rich, and so what? Good for them that they're rich, you know.
[00:39:57] Speaker 2: Okay. Uh, for those of you who have just joined us, you're listening to the Price of Paradise Radio Show. I'm Randy Roth, and my guest today is Jerry Burris, the editorial page editor for the Honolulu Advertiser. We're talking about whatever topic it is that interests you and uh, your calls are welcome, 955-8821 is the number if you want to ask Jerry a question or to make a comment. The number again, 955-8821.
[00:40:24] Speaker 2: Jerry, something else that was in the newspaper this morning in the uh focus section, was uh something about Newt Gingrich and uh in fact, I believe you had a an editorial where you made reference to that and the fact that there's some sort of revolution going on. Could you tell us what you meant by a revolution and then share your thoughts about that?
[00:40:45] Speaker 1: Well, the article [unintelligible — audio glitch] the article, the wire article by Crystal was arguing that, uh, people think of Newt Gingrich as maybe just sort of a a flamboyant uh aberration in in Washington and he's arguing, of course, he comes from that side of the spectrum, but he's saying that Gingrich really represents a fundamental change in the Republican Party and a change in politics, that things are different and you better deal with it folks, because this isn't an aberration.
[00:41:09] Speaker 1: And then the thing that struck me is again in our conversation with Kai Tano the other day, he was talking about how struck he was by Newt Gingrich. He went back to Washington for a governor's conference and he was, you know, he didn't he wasn't really prepared to like Newt Gingrich very much from what he'd heard, but he uh the speaker talked to the governor's conference. He said, wow, this guy's for real, you know. He he was passionate and he really believes it, and he wasn't endorsing everything that Gingrich was saying.
[00:41:33] Speaker 2: Kai Tano wasn't. No, but he was he was struck by how how real the guy was. And and he said this this is going to happen.
[00:41:41] Speaker 1: So he came back believing that that he can't ignore what's going on in Washington that it's going to continue and things will uh shrink down in in Washington. There will be less federal money, and that was what he was struck by.
[00:41:51] Speaker 2: We have a caller on the line, Lloyd from Waikiki. Good morning, Lloyd.
[00:41:55] Speaker 3: Yes, uh, my question is uh with the North shore and the problem of the uh sugar mill closing down, uh to me that's a that's a very fragile area out there and I'd like to know what uh the plans are as far as the city. What are we going to do to keep keep that rural out there?
[00:42:15] Speaker 2: Jerry?
[00:42:16] Speaker 1: I'm not sure what the city's plans are. I think the most uh there is there's a generalized effort to keep things rural out there somehow to substitute agriculture or come up with something that isn't just an expansion of Mililani over the hill and down to the North shore.
[00:42:32] Speaker 1: Uh, but, you know, economics come into play here and what can work. One of the most impressive things I've heard is, I don't know if you've seen any reference to this, is this idea of uh of a combination of of small clusters of housing and small-scale agriculture and uh where you have it's not mass agriculture anymore, but it's it's small farms and and and some urbanization with a lot of small farms around them and and sort of cluster villages moving along, which seems to be it combines some of the economics of housing with with some of the retention of agriculture, which may be the best they can do.
[00:43:07] Speaker 3: Right. Well, we have we have a plan right now. The the the state what they call agricultural condominiums. Unfortunately, it's been used by developers to just develop agricultural land without coming in for uh rezoning. But I do feel that uh if we could put these authentic type thing in, this would be the we cannot have another area like Mililani town because the next couple hundred years, what what's going to happen to this island? I mean, we have to talk in hundreds of years, there'll be nothing left. It'll just be concrete and there'll be this will be a hell on earth here.
[00:43:38] Speaker 1: Yeah, I think authentic was was the right word there that agriculture that that has some possibility of sustaining itself, right, that that shows that it's actually going to be producing something to pay the mortgage payments or whatever and the the thing is you know, it's it's honest type of of development.
[00:43:54] Speaker 2: I'm with you. Okay. Thank you, Lloyd.
[00:43:56] Speaker 1: All right, thank you. Aloha.
[00:43:58] Speaker 2: You know, Lloyd raises a real interesting point on a on a general level and that is, uh, you know, what are the the futures of Hawaii and I say futures with an S uh, because there is um a way of talking about things where you talk about well here's future A, if we make these choices, here's future B, future C, etc. And next week we're going to have Jim Dader from University of Hawaii Political Science Department, who's well known as a future studies person, and then Jack Siderhouse, an economist from University of Hawaii, talking about Hawaii's futures.
[00:44:31] Speaker 2: I'm curious, Jerry, as you talk to our our political leaders, do you get the impression that that they think in terms of what Hawaii will be like in 20 years or 50 years or 100 years, if we make this decision as opposed to that decision? Or is it more how is this going to impact us tomorrow type thinking?
[00:44:49] Speaker 1: I think most politicians uh believe that they think in the long range, but act in the short range. That there's just too many immediate pressures on them and they have to they're making decisions that deal with the problem on the table rather than thinking about how will this affect Hawaii or how will it affect this situation 50 years or 100 years down the road. Uh there are some long-range thinkers obviously, but it's in the nature of politics to take care of today's problem first and then, you know, worry a little bit about the long range later on.
[00:45:18] Speaker 1: Um, we've had cycles of long-range planning here, in the 70s, we did there was a lot of talk about gross control and and uh setting limits on population and everything, and then and then that died out and now we're back to it a little bit. So it seems to be seems to come and go in cycles, but uh on generally, I think they taking a short range.
[00:45:37] Speaker 2: Okay. We have a caller from Makiki, Ken. Good morning.
[00:45:40] Speaker 4: Good morning, sir.
[00:45:42] Speaker 2: What can we do for you today?
[00:45:43] Speaker 4: Well, it's what I'm going to do for you. Okay. First of all, if you set aside the lands from the Hawaiian people, okay, that's in their hands. Let's talk about everything else. Now, believe it or not, the local people, the whole scheme of things outside of Hawaii is to drive the people of Hawaii out of paradise. As a matter of fact, when Danny Noy was his first congressional terms, one politician told Danny Noy when he said, you know, we only got a limited amount of land. He replied, all I see is condominiums. That was a sugar plantation.
[00:46:37] Speaker 4: And they're going to drive every local, with that local meaning those that have generations of living here, out of paradise, so that they can come in and take it over. They have done that in areas all over the world and they're going to do it here, and there's nothing you or me can do about it. Unless you flatten your wallet.
[00:47:00] Speaker 2: Can, let me let me get Jerry's reaction to that and then I want to ask a related question. But, what's your reaction to what Ken is saying?
[00:47:07] Speaker 1: He's saying that was wrong, the politicians do have a long range view, but it just isn't a pretty one. Uh and there may be I think that especially in the 60s and so forth, I think there was a lot of that that this was a place that looked like it was an unlimited engine of making money for people and we're still having some of the side effects of that.
[00:47:25] Speaker 2: It's kind of that land in power thing, get into a Huey buy the land, put condominiums on it, and retire in Las Vegas.
[00:47:31] Speaker 1: But I think there's I don't think that's true of every politician, though. I think there's some who many who are thinking at least beyond their own pocketbook. I hope so.
[00:48:05] Speaker 2: Ken, you feel like uh as a as an individual citizen that this is just beyond your control that you're powerless to um to change the direction it's headed?
[00:48:16] Speaker 4: Definitely. Have you watched Beyond 2000 recently? They're talking about a 2-mile high condominiums. Now, where you think they're going to put something like that? In hell?
[00:48:22] Speaker 2: Let me ask Jerry Burr because I know the the editor of the Advertiser, Jerry Kier, uh gave a talk a while back where he was saying one of the biggest concerns we should have here in Hawaii is that there's an increased sense of of powerlessness on the part of ordinary citizens. Um, Jerry Burr, what are your thoughts on that?
[00:48:38] Speaker 1: You know, the striking thing is is it's not just ordinary citizens who feel powerless. One, we had this uh really pretty interesting breakfast meeting about a year ago where we got some people, many of whom are fairly powerful, fairly influential. You'd call them ken, and you would probably call them the power types, you know, they're on the inside. And the dominant theme at this meeting that we happened to have was how everyone feels powerless. They don't feel like they can control things anymore, and these are people who, at least superficially, have a lot of control.
[00:48:59] Speaker 1: So that what what the feeling you seem to be expressing here, surprisingly, is also felt by some people who by every outward appearance would have total control.
[00:49:04] Speaker 4: Well, I like to remind you about something. You see, we in America always teach people to get the hungry frenzy. [unintelligible — audio glitch]. You know what I mean? Get the Joneses, beat the Joneses, beat the Joneses. Well, what you think all is going on around here? Kapolei, Mililani, you name it. It's happening all around the state. Even the people themselves are becoming what they don't want to become. You understand what I'm saying?
[00:49:38] Speaker 2: We need a spiritual revival, Ken?
[00:49:41] Speaker 4: No, I don't believe in God. Anybody who does that must be out of his mind because why doesn't God come down and talk to us now when we can videotape him?
[00:49:51] Speaker 2: Okay, Hey, Ken. I appreciate a nice day. Okay. Ken, thank you very much. We've got some callers stacked up. Uh, next caller is Bill from Polo. Good morning, Bill.
[00:50:00] Speaker 5: Hi, good morning, Sherry.
[00:50:01] Speaker 2: Morning.
[00:50:02] Speaker 5: Um, I wanted to say that uh I've been trying to get the truth and drinking water stuff uh through the legislature for 12 years now. This year, uh, truth and drinking water bill, Senate bill 1387 and House bill 1247 uh got killed uh and without newspaper notice.
[00:50:23] Speaker 2: Oh, really?
[00:50:24] Speaker 5: I wanted to say that uh, I'm sending you a fax at Cage BR uh right now, as soon as it gets out of the printer. And I it's addressed to you and I I hope that you can pay uh it's documented, our problems with drinking water and the legislature and the city and state.
[00:50:41] Speaker 2: What what committees did those die in?
[00:50:43] Speaker 5: Uh in uh Jim Shawn's committee, uh and in uh Rod Tan's committee, the two environmental committees, House and Senate.
[00:50:51] Speaker 2: So did they have hearings or they just never?
[00:50:54] Speaker 5: Well, that's a problem. There was no hearing. So I just wanted to direct your attention that your future uh great, great grandchildren are going to be drinking this same stuff and uh here comes the facts.
[00:51:05] Speaker 2: Bill, would you also fax it over to the paper just in case I don't get it here at the station? Cuz it's pretty pretty dark here this morning. I will do that. All right, thank you. Thank you, Bill. Appreciate your call. Uh Duke from Waikiki, is this the same Duke we talked to earlier?
[00:51:18] Speaker 6: You bet. I just had another question of um uh this real tension like with the free speech, there's another tension coming down here in Waikiki. I'm on the uh neighborhood board on the housing committee, and we're very concerned of the development going on into Hobron Lane. And we hear all the time of the rights of um private ownership of the land, but in Waikiki over the last five years, we've lost about 5,000 units of housing where the properties have been torn down, the money dried up, and we have all these vacant properties, so we've lost the housing.
[00:51:54] Speaker 6: In Hobron, in the convention center, um uh assessment, environmental assessment, it states that Hobron area is the most dense populated residential area in the state of Hawaii. Now, even if we take away the condominiums that are down there that are contributing to that density, we have at least a thousand units of uh low rise. What is going to happen when uh they do develop that area and they have to force those uh units out. Where do those people go uh for a thousand units? Where do they go on the rest of the island, plus the fact it pushes on to uh the price of housing in the other areas because of supply and demand.
[00:52:37] Speaker 6: Where does the public's right uh and good step in over private ownership?
[00:52:43] Speaker 1: That's that's a good point, and we're sort of, you know, this isn't an issue of homelessness, but it's an issue of affordability. Could be yeah. And and I think one of the things that that you're talking about is it's a phenomenon that's been happening that that affordable housing should be close in where people can can walk to things and get to stuff and and if you build uh fairly affordable apartments and put them in the middle of a canefield out in, it's not going to do people much good because they won't have any any uh you know, civic infrastructure around them.
[00:53:14] Speaker 1: So yeah, it's a real problem. I mean, Waikiki used to be a pretty lively residential area, not necessarily all all wealthy people, and and that's kind of dying out. And you make a good point. Where will people go?
[00:53:28] Speaker 6: Well, I guess I'm asking. I'll ask so when does private ownership rights of private ownership uh be superseded by the the public good?
[00:53:37] Speaker 2: That's that's a great question, and uh we don't have time to respond to that one, but Duke, I appreciate your call. In case you joined us late, you're listening to the Price of Paradise Radio Show. I'm Randy Roth, and my guest today is Jerry Burris, the editorial page editor of the Honolulu Advertiser. If you'd like to ask Jerry a question or make a comment, just call 955-8821. Neighbor Islanders are invited to call collect. The number again, 955-8821. We have a caller from Hawaii Kai, Susie. Good morning, Susie.
[00:54:07] Speaker 7: Good morning. Last Sunday on this show, it came out that more than half of the current Medicaid budget is spent on nursing home care. In view of the current fiscal crisis at the national and state levels, I'm wondering why the newspaper doesn't give more coverage to long-term care for the elderly. I'll hang up.
[00:54:28] Speaker 2: Okay. All right, Jerry, why not?
[00:54:30] Speaker 1: I don't I don't know why not. Uh, I certainly editorially, we've we've been supporting the the Family Hope program and that, and uh and been pressing hard to get something like that going, and and, and I've encouraged, I've been trying to encourage people to write in and and and push that issue forward. And one of the interesting things, I hate to keep harking to this conversation we had with the governor, but uh we asked him what his biggest disappointment has been in the first 100 days or so, and he said practically that.
[00:54:56] Speaker 1: He said, I came in thinking uh that I'd like to put my attention and my focus my energy on social programs and long-term care and early childhood uh care. And he says, I found out I can't do that. There just isn't any money, and I have to do all this budget cutting, and it's been a real disappointment to him. But his his hope is that in a year or two when the economy stabilizes, that he can start focusing on that and maybe uh get some action going in that direction.
[00:55:22] Speaker 1: But as a pragmatic matter, right now, they're just there's just no way that they can generate the money they need to uh to really fund long-term care. go down the road of economic growth and economic prosperity.
[00:57:04] Speaker 1: My personal My personal thing is is that I think that you it doesn't have to be an either or, that you could go down the road of belt tightening and less growth and less development and find out in the long term that there's more money to be made that way because Hawaii as the rest of the world gets great more and more congested and and tense and so forth, that Hawaii will be that much more attractive and that much more valuable, that much more of a jewel that that people will be willing to spend top dollar to to see or to feel or to be part of for a little bit.
[00:57:33] Speaker 1: So, I think there's there's economic value down that road, too.
[00:57:36] Speaker 2: But wouldn't that push a and caller earlier today described locals as as as people who have been here for generations uh as this becomes more and more attractive, especially by comparison to the rest of the world, don't outsiders with lots of money to spend have an ability to come here to enjoy that and doesn't that in one way or another eventually push out the folks who have been here for generations?
[00:58:02] Speaker 1: It it could, and that's that's the leadership challenge, is to find ways of protecting the the lifestyles and the and the uh the the rights of the people who are here from being pushed over the edge and out of it. And you don't want to turn this into a place of global wealthy people with the only people who can afford to live here are their servants. You know that.
[00:58:20] Speaker 2: We have a caller from Maui, Bill. Good morning, Bill.
[00:58:23] Bill: Good morning. This business of being helpless. Uh we have these state agencies like the State Highway Department and State Education. Why they shouldn't be broken down and control on the islands? I raise this point because it's Kukailani. We've had this big bypass road put in crossing Maowa road and it's become an absolute death trap. Okay. No no planning for the safety of the community.
[00:58:50] Speaker 2: Let let let me ask Jerry just real generally, you know, pushing things down to a lower level closer to the people. I know that's part of this contract with America on the federal level. Uh should we be doing that here at the state level moving things to the counties to a closer uh to the people level?
[00:59:07] Speaker 1: I think there are some functions that that definitely could be brought down, you know, the the highly centralized state was a product of a time when the counties were not very mature and not very capable, and certainly they're a lot more capable now. Certainly on Maui they are and in Honolulu and the rest. Uh so a lot of these decisions I think can be handed back to the counties. That's sort of the home rule issue.
[00:59:27] Speaker 2: Bill?
[00:59:28] Bill: Yes. What about and and and we have this Kukailani high school. It's not a fortune on the foundation, you know, getting the preparation of the land, and it should have been put on level land. Mhm. So we have no control over it. You sit around here and you get to talk to all your local citizens.
[00:59:47] Speaker 2: So we'll push for decentralization.
[00:59:49] Speaker 1: Of course you can have a centralized state agency and just have them be sensitive to local issues and that they you don't have to have a separate layer of government to do it necessarily.
[00:59:56] Bill: Yes, why why is there any reason why the highway department now, as you say, with a big county like Maui, why it should be centralized in Wahoo?
[01:00:07] Speaker 1: Probably less so than there was 20 years ago.
[01:00:10] Speaker 2: You make you make some very good points, Bill. We really appreciate it.
[01:00:13] Bill: Thank you.
[01:00:15] Speaker 2: Thank you. Jerry, we're down to just the last few minutes, and I notice one topic that that didn't come up uh and I'm surprised by that uh is sovereignty. Uh is is sovereignty for real, and depending upon how you answer that, what do you think of as my meaning when I say for real? What are your thoughts on sovereignty?
[01:00:35] Speaker 1: It's more real than moot even. It's just uh very real. And uh and I think in the long run really good for Hawaii. I think that uh it's been sort of a uh the disenfranchisement, if you want to call it that, of Hawaiians has been something that's sort of been a a cancer in our in our soul, and I think that as they as they achieve self-determination, it's going to help everybody. I think the whole state will be healthier and more positive, and I think it'll be just tremendous. Uh how it plays itself out, I'm not sure.
[01:01:05] Speaker 2: Are we talking about something that in your mind will take a year or two or three or four to play out, or is this something that's going to take a long time?
[01:01:14] Speaker 1: Something will happen, I think, fairly quickly in the next couple of years, some structural change. But to have it really have the positive impact, I think it'll take a generation or so. A generation of people who grow up knowing that as Hawaiians they have a certain amount of self-determination and and links back to the land and the roots and things, and that generation won't have the alienation that a lot of Hawaiians have somehow felt up until now. And I think that's the cure part of it that's going to come along.
[01:01:42] Speaker 2: Is there anything that that we haven't talked about that that you'd like to mention? Uh, you know, we haven't talked about the media and the joint operating agreement and things that I thought too that callers might raise. Is there anything that comes to mind that is um a topic of of real current interest, but also the sort of thing that could impact us uh for a long, long time that we haven't talked about?
[01:02:04] Speaker 1: I don't know, I I there's so many things, and and one of the problems is that the paper, the editorial pages, that we tend to get focused in on the hot button issues, you know, if it's gun control or if it's gay marriage or if it's uh uh pig hunting and Molokai or something like this that that tend to arouse passions, but don't really get us looking ahead a little bit like you've been referring to.
[01:02:27] Speaker 1: And and if there's anything, and I can't put a I can't put a single name on this, but it's it's sort of what you're you're talking about next week, and and sort of the underlying theme of a lot of this is is where are we going? What is what is Hawaii supposed to be about? Uh what does it really stand for? And those kinds of issues which are hard to get at, because we tend to focus on the little ones all the time. And if I could figure out a way of crystallizing and making exciting that long-range topic, I think I'd really do something. I haven't found it yet.
[01:02:54] Speaker 1: I'm sure your listeners have plenty of ideas.
[01:02:57] Speaker 2: Okay. Well, I want to thank my guest this morning, Jerry Burris, the editorial page editor of the Honolulu Advertiser. Jerry, thank you very much for joining us this morning.
[01:03:05] Speaker 1: Thank you.
[01:03:06] Speaker 2: Our uh producer is Susie Roth. Our technical director is Jeff Iardi. We appreciate your listening to the program. You've been listening to the Price of Paradise Radio Show. I'm Randy Roth. Aloha.

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