Open Forum
Price of Paradise · Hawaii Public Radio · aired 1995-03-19
Guests: Diane Chang (Editorial Page Editor, Honolulu Star-Bulletin); Bud Smyser (columnist, Honolulu Star-Bulletin)
Duration: 1:08:04

[00:00:00] Randall Roth: This is Randy Roth show. We are being broadcast live on KHPR 88.1 FM and KKUA 90.7 FM on Sunday morning, March 19th. The show will be replayed in its entirety on KIFO 1380 AM this evening at 8:00. We have some interesting topics coming up on future shows. Next week, we'll be talking about government's role in funding broadcasting and the arts. Two weeks from today, the spotlight will be on tort reform, and the week after that, we'll examine healthcare in Hawaii. Today's show is a bit different. Rather than focus exclusively on one topic, I'll be talking to my guests and they'll be sharing their thoughts about anything and everything that's been in the news lately. As always, Sunday morning listeners can join in the conversation by phone. To ask a question or make a brief comment, just call 955-8821.
[00:00:51] Randall Roth: Today's guests actually get paid for commentating on the news, or maybe I should say they usually get paid for commentating on the news. Anyway, they are Diane Chang, senior editor and editorial page editor of the Honolulu Star Bulletin, and Bud Smizer, present day columnist and former editor of the very same newspaper. Diane and Bud, welcome to the Price of Paradise Radio show.
[00:01:13] Bud Smyser: Aloha.
[00:01:14] Diane Chang: Thanks for making us get up this early at this ungodly hour.
[00:01:17] Randall Roth: Well, you're you're welcome. Uh topic of the day, and I guess there are about 20 or 30 that we could start with, but the one that's uh made the biggest splash in the newspaper lately, and the one that I find most interesting is what's going on between our governor and a couple of the people over in the Senate. Diane, could you give us just a little bit of background on on what's going on and then share your thoughts on that?
[00:01:40] Diane Chang: Okay. Well, okay. Um basically, this this happened during the confirmation hearings for the cabinet. And at first, Malama Solomon, who is in head of the executive committee, I think she was really grilling some of these candidates, and the Governor got a little bit miffed about this. And then, I think it it all culminated, was it last week? when the governor charged that Senator Solomon was doing this because she was trying to elicit some kind of quid pro quo that she wanted some cabinet, she wanted some kind of um jobs for legislators so they could get higher salaries, the the dreaded H3, and of course, Senator Solomon denied that and said that was a lie and now they're both, they both want to take lie detector test because they're both sure that they're telling the truth and so, basically, our editorial stance on this is that these are disturbing allegations that need to be looked looked into.
[00:02:40] Randall Roth: Allegations going both directions or what the governor is saying about the Senate's behavior?
[00:02:46] Diane Chang: Well, you know, I'm surprised this hasn't come up before because I I'm pretty sure this has happened in the past and I really give the governor credit for coming out and saying what he thinks as he has said. In past administrations, this might have been handled behind closed doors and smoothed out, but he's coming out, and I'm not going to say right now who's telling the truth because I might get sued.
[00:03:08] Randall Roth: Do you have an opinion? You could express an opinion.
[00:03:11] Diane Chang: Which kind of gives you an idea of who I think is telling the truth, but um
[00:03:15] Randall Roth: Well, you know, you could give an opinion and you could explain to us why that's your opinion.
[00:03:20] Diane Chang: Boy, you really want to get me in trouble here, Randy. On a Sunday morning. And Bud, stay out of this. Hey.
[00:03:25] Randall Roth: It's Sunday morning, you're here.
[00:03:28] Diane Chang: Well, let me just put it this way. I'm I'm surprised this hasn't come up in the past because I'm pretty sure that this has happened. Okay. And so, I, like I said, I give credit to the governor for for saying what he thinks and um Okay, stop bullying me you guys. I'm not saying. Well, our our producer just uh held up a little note that says that I should I should say to you, just between you and me, just whisper to me, right? Right, I've heard that before.
[00:03:52] Bud Smyser: No, I I think it's great. I just love to see this confrontation, and I think that we've had it for years. I I don't know, it goes back, and, you know, it is politics, trading, horse trading. I I do remember when Bill Quinn was governor, this is way back, and he was elected with Jimmy Kealoha, Jimmy apparently walked into him, would walk into his office and said, well, I helped you get elected, and I get half of the appointments. And though said, no, you don't. And um, so this kind of thing goes on all the time, and I'm I'm just so tickled that Ben is making an issue of it. And I I think it's wonderful that this uh high three is coming out. That's something we need, I'd like to come back later and talk about a constitutional convention. We did a constitutional convention to get rid of things like that.
[00:04:36] Randall Roth: Now you you called this politics, and and I was um under the impression there's nothing wrong with politics per se, but in listening to Diane to Diane, I get the impression that that what um uh Malama Solomon has been accused of goes beyond politics, that it's somehow inappropriate. And in fact, I think the governor has either um complained to the ethics Commission or has threatened to complain to the ethics Commission. So, isn't it really more than just politics?
[00:05:01] Bud Smyser: Well, politics is basically a good word. I think politics is a high calling and an art, and I get upset by the people who think it's it's dirty to call it politics, but there are dirty politics, and there are is what's what's uh and anyway, we have dirty politics. And um, I I think trading and compromising is the name of the game, uh all all through our government. But when you want a favor that seems improper, then it gets over into the area of impropriety. And I I I think what the governor is accusing the senator of is improper. I don't think it's unprecedented by any means, but I think it's happened. I'm glad to see the government making an issue of it. And particularly, this high three system just corrupts the whole legislature. Legislators know that they can double or triple their pensions if they can get appointed to a executive position for 3 years after they're out of the legislature. It's it's there's something passed in a dark night, the newspaper has never covered it when it passed or if it had been out in the open, they would have passed. And uh, but it makes legislators beholden to the administration.
[00:06:09] Randall Roth: I know a couple weeks ago, when uh the bills that would have changed the high three, uh died in committee, there was an article in the Star Bulletin quoting a couple of the committee chairs as saying they didn't think this high three was a a big issue, that they didn't think people were really concerned about it. But as I listen to you, it sounds as though at least Bud Smizer feels it's a very big deal.
[00:06:38] Diane Chang: Well, not only Randy, we had many other letters saying that this was terrible, this was appalling, what a farce this was, that the legislators were saying this was not an issue because what they have so many quote other other things to deal with. And that's not true, we really heard a lot from our our readers who said that was terrible.
[00:06:55] Randall Roth: Diane, something else that's been in the news is um uh the DHHL claims, the Department of Hawaiian Homelands claims that are evidently tying up title to a great deal of real estate here in Hawaii, and a tentative settlement has been worked out, and initially it was going to be $30 million per year for 20 years for a total of $600 million, and it was all going to be financed with um uh bonds, but now there's a proposal for a one year increase in the state excise tax from 4% to 5%, and that one year 1% increase in taxes would generate more than $320 million, which they say is the cash equivalent of 30 million per year for 20 million.
[00:07:42] Randall Roth: Um, it's generated a lot of uh of reaction I think, at least in in looking at the Star Bulletin, the letters to the editor, I get the impression that your readers are quite concerned about this. What's your position?
[00:07:51] Diane Chang: Well, you forgot the punchline to this whole proposition is that this is a temporary tax. It's a one year tax and they're going to do away with it after the one year. Remember that?
[00:08:01] Randall Roth: Now, why are you why are you smiling?
[00:08:03] Diane Chang: Am I smiling? I'm sorry. Because there's no such thing as a temporary tax. We all know that, that they're going to find ways to to spend that after a year, and they're going to justify it. It's If you look at the record, I I can't even remember when they've gone back and taken away a tax. I mean, even as Bud, Bud has been around a lot longer than me, and I'm sure he can agree with me, but our our stand at the Star Bulletin is that there should be no tax increases, that spending cuts should be made instead and that this is a very convenient excuse to to tax everyone at this actually, it's a 25% tax increase when you look at it, so we we disagree with that and we think that they should be floating bonds instead.
[00:08:45] Randall Roth: So you don't think there's anything uh special about this particular reason for raising taxes that that next year there would be another special reason and the year after that, etc. that would cause this to be a permanent increase?
[00:08:58] Diane Chang: Well, I'm not saying that this isn't a worthy cause, but I think that the the method of raising the money is wrong and that they're taking the easy way out by taxing all of us and that certainly is not the right way to go at this point.
[00:09:09] Randall Roth: Bud, do you have any thoughts on this one?
[00:09:12] Bud Smyser: The state is spending $12 billion every 2 years, I'm told. Uh 6 billion of that goes into the general operating budget and the rest is in the capital budget. Somehow or other, we ought to be able to find that 300 million or 600 million without raising taxes because I agree absolutely, Diane, if we raise taxes, they'll stay raised, and government will get bigger, and the government employee unions will see that money there and they will tell the legislators you owe it to us and if you don't give it to us, we'll beat you in the election and the single member district we have system we have, another thing that the Con-Con ought to fix, makes us very powerful and we can threaten the dickens out of you guys and so we public should keep the pressure on the legislature to not add one penny to taxes.
[00:09:56] Randall Roth: Okay. In case you joined us late, this is the Price of Paradise Radio show. I'm Randy Roth, and my guests are columnist Bud Smizer and editorial page editor Diane Chang, both of whom are with the Honolulu Star Bulletin. We're talking about recent events in Hawaii and your calls are welcome. The number is 955-8821 and neighbor Islanders are always invited to call collect. The number again, 955-8821. We have a caller from Waikiki. Good morning, Steve.
[00:10:23] Steve: Good morning to you. Good morning to your guests. I got to say you run a terrific show. It's got to be terrific to get me up at 7:30 every Sunday. What about us? And I'd like to make a short comment and put a question and see what your guests have to say. Earlier in the show, you were talking about the controversy between Ben Cayetano and Malama Solomon revolving around appointments and I'd like to say that uh I think Ben gave a a hint that he was going to be a little more upright uh in this area than maybe some of our previous chief executives when he split with John Waihee over the Sharon Omino appointment and came out very um very forcefully saying he thought it was cronyism and he thought it was a bad appointment.
[00:11:15] Steve: Um, he did that. He first did that in a speech before the university faculty, um um in I think about Oh well, I I'm not 100% sure the date, but I remember his doing it because he hadn't, he hadn't publicly made any statement and then I think got into the Star Bulletin and and the other paper at that point. And now the regents list has come out and I want to say just parenthetically that it's an open secret inside the university and at the top at the top ranks of the university, that at least this present Board of Regents and a number of previously Board of Regents is considered to be a zoo and that the people are trying to build a good university really go with trepidation into some of these meetings because of the kinds of silliness that go on there and they they so there's a great hope that um a slightly better Board of Regents, one a little bit more knowledge of what universities are about, will come before us and now that that group has been announced and I'm I'm wondering if either of our guests or Randy or anyone else would like to talk about appointing regents, and uh the people that we've got.
[00:12:50] Randall Roth: Let's see what Bud Smizer has to say because I'll hang off and listen on the radio.
[00:12:53] Bud Smyser: Thank you, Steve.
[00:12:54] Randall Roth: But if I recall correctly, just a month or two ago, you wrote a column on what uh uh the Governor should be looking for in a good regent and now we've got five people who've been nominated. What are your thoughts?
[00:13:06] Bud Smyser: I wrote a column that uh said basically that these were among the most importance to governor the most important appointments the governor would be making, and he's nominating five people to the board, and there are only 11 on it, so he's getting just one one short of a majority. And I did suggest in that column that uh it shouldn't necessarily be a board of business people, but that business people had management know how that I think would make a very good contribution to running anything. And uh, in any event, after the column ran, uh the I heard the governor make a talk and the question came up of who he would appoint, and he said I'm going to send in my own SWAT team. And I ask him what that means and what that meant, and he said, uh people who think like I do.
[00:14:02] Bud Smyser: And I gather that uh from talking to some other people informally, um, he might um his his goals for the university are not unlike mine. He might even want to increase faculty loads, and I hope you don't mind that, Randy. But uh, the and the of the five he's appointed, I don't remember all five names, but Jack Hoag who's um has been president of First Hawaiian Bank, I think is a fine appointment. I think Aqwan Macara is a fine appointment. Those are two that I specifically know, and so when I read the list, I thought, pretty good, Governor.
[00:14:40] Randall Roth: Okay. Diane, do you have any thoughts on this one?
[00:14:42] Diane Chang: Well, I remember I I can't remember all of the candidates either, but I when I looked at the names, I knew all of them. Um so this may sound a little strange, but I was disappointed that I knew all of them because that means that they are active in uh maybe political circles. I know Donna Tanoye is one of them. She's a younger woman, she's an attorney. But I was hoping to see some names that I didn't recognize because um to me when I know all of them. I mean, Aqwan is great. I think she's she's a good appointment, but when I recognized all of them, that meant that to me that they were players, they were well-known, that they had already established themselves in the business or whatever community. So it was a pretty much a status quo type appointments, but we'll see.
[00:15:27] Randall Roth: Okay. Well, what about uh Hooters?
[00:15:32] Diane Chang: Why are you looking at me, Randy? Uh Diane, um uh there was uh you know quite a contra a controversy, I think uh right around the end of the year, because uh one of the football games, I forget which one, the Pro Bowl or or one of the the year and football games was sponsored by Hooters restaurant and I know you came out with a pretty strong position on that and then there were a number of people with strong positions on the other side of the spectrum. Could you tell us a little bit about that? Yeah, Hooters, uh, I think the Hula Bowl needed a sponsor, and so they got Hooters restaurant, which is uh has a reputation for having, I wouldn't know, I haven't been there, scantily clad waitresses. They are very scantily clad, I've been there. Oh, don't defend them, Bud. Um but basically, uh I think this is more of a women's, women's issue. And this is a big difference between the two papers, because when you have one headed by an editorial page headed by a woman, we came out with a stance that said that this was degrading to women and we felt it was inappropriate for the state to be giving money to be splashing Hooters Hula Bowl all over the the nation and the world. And um Do you suppose we have some listeners out there that don't yet know that that Hooters is slang for women's breasts?
[00:16:51] Diane Chang: Yes, I I was surprised to to find out that a lot of people don't know that. I I didn't know that to be honest with you, but people have been reading the Star Bulletin, I think know that at at this point in time. But do you have any any thoughts on what Diane was just saying?
[00:17:05] Bud Smyser: Well, my feelings aren't as strong as Diane's. The uh and I have I haven't actually been into Hooters, but I've been by it and looked in, and looks to me as though the waitresses are pretty well clad. And uh, in any event, it's probably just as well that the state has withdrawn its sponsorship of the Hula Bowl game. But that done, whoever heck wants to sponsor it is okay with me.
[00:17:30] Randall Roth: I mean this group had has a license. It's operating legally. Why shouldn't they get a sponsor? Okay. We have a caller from Waikiki, Duke. Good morning, Duke.
[00:17:38] Duke: Good morning. I just like to uh go back to your first topic with the governor and the Senate appointments. Uh I think in the past, this has gone on. I agree with Diane on that, but the governor, by taking this stand, has let it be known in no uncertain terms if it has gone on in the past, we're playing by different rules. And when I grew up, my father taught me that you don't lie, cheat, or steal. And I just think that uh with the governor taking this stand, he may make bad decisions or decisions that I don't agree with in the future, but at least I can be assured that he's making them from conviction and and ethics, and uh it's not going to be some political payoff because he's making decisions. So he's making them what he thinks to be the right decisions, even though I may disagree. I find that most comforting.
[00:18:29] Randall Roth: Okay. Great. We appreciate your comment. All right. What about um car insurance and and really the broader issue is is tort reform, which we're going to be doing a a show on in just a couple of weeks. Diane, I know you had a column not long ago where you were talking about a meeting you had had with Bob Toyofuku, who's the the chief chief lobbyist for the uh the lawyers, the litigators, who are um uh I guess not in favor of tort reform. Could you tell us just a little bit about your your column and your thoughts on lawyers in general.
[00:19:02] Diane Chang: Oh, don't get me started here.
[00:19:04] Randall Roth: tort reform in particular and if you want to get into car insurance you could talk about that too. Take your pick.
[00:19:09] Diane Chang: I really had fun writing that column. It was a fairy tale. I think it was called A Fairy Tale to Scare You About Attorneys. And it it talked about Little Red Riding Hood that was the editorial page editor. That was me, being um meeting the big bad plaintiff's attorney. And how this big bad plaintiff's attorney was trying to convince Red that it wasn't really the attorney's fault that legal costs and lawsuits had are are so high. Trying to rationalize it by saying that everyone deserves the right to sue. And my big beef is is the ocean liability that people who almost drown or get hurt at at public beaches get to sue the government and the counties are trying to to stop that with some legislation.
[00:19:58] Diane Chang: So, anyway, it was a it was a really fun column to write and I hope some people saw it. But I definitely think that tort reform is needed. I think that this has gotten out of hand that the the high cost of of legal of lawsuits has really caused a problem for business and it hurts everybody. So, I definitely think something has to be done.
[00:20:20] Bud Smyser: As I understand what the what the Republicans have done in in the Congress, in their contract with America which is to cap liability benefits. Uh I think it either $250,000 or three times the amount of economic damage which could be much more than $250,000. And also to I think uh require that if if an offer of settlement is made at some point, I don't think at the very beginning of the of the trial and and refuse that and and the person who then pushes it to trial, if he or she loses, has to pay the court cost. I'm I'm in favor of both of those. I I I think we I think we become a much too litigious society. Uh we have more lawyers per square inch than any country in the world.
[00:21:11] Randall Roth: We don't we don't normally measure per square inch.
[00:21:13] Diane Chang: And Randy is making sure that continues to happen.
[00:21:16] Bud Smyser: But but the other thing the other thing that concerns me is that in regard to health insurance, you if you buy an HMSA policy, you can be reasonably sure that more than 90% of that is going to be paid out to someone in medical benefits. If you buy an auto insurance policy, and I don't know what the current figures are, before we got our present no-fault law, the figures were that only I I should be careful with my numbers but only 30 or 40% went out in benefits, the rest went into court costs and litigation. And I I think we should keep the cost of litigation down and we should have more of our auto insurance premiums and other premiums go to provide benefits to to help the insured.
[00:22:01] Randall Roth: You're listening to the Price of Paradise Radio Show. Usually we focus on one specific topic, but today, we're hearing our guest's thoughts about anything and everything that has been in the news. Diane Chang is the Star Bulletin's editorial page editor and Bud Smizer is its columnist and former editor. They will be happy to respond to your question or your comment. All you have to do is call us at 955-8821.
[00:22:26] Diane Chang: But Randy I first I think you should read this little note that that the producer has pasted in the window.
[00:22:32] Randall Roth: I think you two are teaming up on me here. But it says a caller commented quote, Diane is doing a wonderful job, especially her comments on equal opportunity for women. Please don't back down on your position.
[00:22:46] Diane Chang: Thanks for calling, Mom.
[00:22:49] Randall Roth: Okay. Um what about what was going on in the fire department over the last few weeks? Um Diane, could you tell us a little bit of the background on that and where the Star Bulletin in general and Diane Chang in particular are on that issue?
[00:23:04] Diane Chang: Um boy. I I really have to think a lot early this early. I was like trying to get my brain going. Well, this was the confirmation hearing for fire chief Richard Sitomook and um basically, when what happened during the hearing were there were allegations again coming out that he had, I think the most serious was that he had promoted based on political affiliation or support. Um, our feeling at the at the Star Bulletin was that these charges weren't substantiated at the on the editorial pages. That these uh charges weren't substantiated and that he was a worthy candidate. Um, my personal feeling was the same and I wanted to interject an interesting footnote that the strangest thing happened after the confirmation hearing and that he was voted out.
[00:23:56] Diane Chang: We had a letter writing campaign to the letters to the editor section, that many of the letters were fakes, they were written under pseudonyms that were wrong, they came from addresses that didn't exist. So I thought it was really strange that this happened after.
[00:24:13] Randall Roth: Were they for him or against him?
[00:24:14] Diane Chang: It was saying they were saying basically it was terrible that the council had done this to a worthy candidate. But I thought it was weird that they would do that after when nothing can be done about it. They should have written letters to the editor before when when it might have made a difference.
[00:24:30] Randall Roth: Okay. So that was, anyway, that was weird. Well, if we have time a bit later, maybe we can come back to this, but we've got four or five people waiting on the line. First a regular a regular listener, Dick Miller from Kailua. Good morning, Dick.
[00:25:40] Dick: Good morning, Randy and Diane and Bud.
[00:25:44] Diane Chang: Hi, Dick.
[00:25:46] Dick: I was really interested in your reaction to [unintelligible — audio glitch] tort reform issues. And uh I'm a little troubled by by your position uh Bud, particularly on on this uh loser pays thing that's going through the Senate. Uh if if you take a look at the English system, which has loser pays, what you find is that the middle class, and and there's a famous English judge named Devlin, came out and said this. The English English middle class just don't have any access to justice when they're injured in an accident. It's only the very poor who get legal aid and the trade unionists, whose unions pay their fees, who can get and the rich who get get to to get redress if they're injured.
[00:26:34] Dick: But the middle class can't, and and that's where loser pays is going, I think.
[00:26:38] Bud Smyser: But that comes after, I mean, the a an attorney can still take a case on a contingency fee fee basis, but he can't carry it too far until the loser pays kicks in.
[00:26:49] Dick: Well, the problem, the loser pays thing is they can make any kind of an offer, and you never know what's going to happen in a lawsuit. So even though you may have a lawsuit and you have a [unintelligible — audio glitch] have a very strong chance of winning, uh, there's always a possibility of losing, and a person with any assets would not be able to bring that lawsuit. It'd be crazy to subject his own assets to that contingency, so it would be most unfortunate. I think also that the I don't know where you get your information about about the tort system in general, but I think we've all been propagandized terribly and that there's some real hard information out there from the Rand Institute on civil justice.
[00:27:30] Dick: There's a guy named Galanter who has done an awful lot of studies on what's going on, and uh virtually all this propaganda has been grossly exaggerated. It's just, there is not this huge increase in lawsuits and uh that everyone claims there is. And I think I think we're being bulldozed on this one.
[00:27:51] Randall Roth: What about the percentage of auto insurance premium costs going to court costs and overall administration instead of to to the people, instead of to pay benefits to policyholders?
[00:28:02] Bud Smyser: Well, there's there's no question, you're right about the amount, it's quite high. Uh, but the thing that has to get calculated in is the deterrent effect of the tort system. Now, there's a professor named Gary Schwartz, who's very uh uh well-known and respected, who just published an article analyzing that very issue. That is, to what extent does the tort system prevent accidents? And to the extent that it prevents accidents, you have to figure that into the cost-benefit analysis. And he concludes, for example, that even in auto accidents, which are the least likely to be moved by uh tort liability, even there, there's a 10% reduction, apparently, in accidents, and that 10% pays for the cost of the system.
[00:28:48] Bud Smyser: That is, it's it's cost-efficient. So, there's there's some really good good stuff out there. Dick, I appreciate your call. We've got a show coming up in a couple weeks on on tort reform and I've got three people waiting on the line so I'm going to have to move on, but your comments are extremely interesting and we appreciate the call.
[00:29:15] Bobby: Good morning and thank you for a great program. One comment on this whole legal business, there was a very good book published in 1987 titled Before You Sue written by Fletcher Knebel and Gerald Clay. For people that are thinking of suing, read it.
[00:29:35] Randall Roth: It's a great book. I just want to tell you an incident about it. I was in the hospital, and I had the book by my bedside and the the attendants came along and thought it was encouraging me to sue and they were [unintelligible — audio glitch]'d barely touch me. I thought maybe I got extra good care or something. Thank thank you all very much.
[00:30:03] Diane Chang: insurance of the Hawaiian claims on the private property. I I don't know, this is an issue I don't know very much about but from what I understand a lot of the some of the disputed land is being used by the public and and people should be reimbursed for it. But I understand that some of it is in private hands and that seems to me that that would be that if we pay for people who own the property privately and getting used out of it privately who bought contested land, that that's an issue for the title insurance companies. And I'm kind of tired that whenever um some somebody in the insurance business or these different businesses get in a squeeze, the taxpayers always seem to be bailing them on, but maybe I've got it wrong.
[00:30:47] Diane Chang: So this is a question and my last comment that's very, very short, I I'm I'm very concerned about tort reform, my whole family was had insecticide poisoning. And we talked to Dr. Epstein at the University of Chicago who's a an expert in certain kinds of pesticides and he's been trying for years to get some of the pesticides off the market because of the kinds of damage they can do. And the tort system really basically protects the ordinary average people against things that can hurt, or I'm not arguing about what the lawyers get or anything else, but I'm just really afraid about what might happen if we didn't have a good tort system to protect people and I think it's really giving up rights.
[00:31:36] Diane Chang: I see a lot of things that are happening right now where average people are giving up rights, but anyway that's my comments. But thank you for letting me talk to you.
[00:31:42] Bud Smyser: But sandwich between the the two comments was uh a question, I think. If I understand Diane's question correctly, she's saying that on this proposal to settle the claims, the Department of Hawaiian Home Lands uh $320 million, uh if paid all at once, or $30 million each year for 20 year proposed settlement. If I understood correctly, she was saying [unintelligible — audio glitch]'s the the those claims constitute a problem of the title insurance companies that people who bought that land bought title insurance, and if there's a problem with the title, uh it's not their problem. It's the title insurance company's problem and so the government would be bailing out the companies. Is that how you interpreted her question and do you have any thoughts on that?
[00:32:28] Bud Smyser: Well, I understand title insurance is a factor in this. I I think the bigger question though is trying to resolve the claims made on behalf of the Hawaiian people in a way that's fair both to the Hawaiian people and to the 80% of the population who are not Hawaiian. And uh I I think we're going to have in the next years ahead some confrontations on this issue, what is proper and what is improper. Uh I'm willing to accept the fact that this was a negotiated a negotiated settlement, probably in the public interest, and I would like to see it funded, but how it's funded is another question.
[00:33:02] Caller: Good morning, Harriet. I wanted to um mention to Diane that uh she mentioned that the Hooters hoolabola sponsorship is a women's issue. And I would disagree and I think that is a problem that a lot of uh so-called women's issues have been faced with. This is not a women's issue, but an issue of both men and women and it is a human issue rather than just a women's issue. And I think that we should look upon things which are degrading to any uh person, whether of uh male or female as being a human issue rather than simply a women's issue.
[00:33:48] Diane Chang: No, that that's a very good point. Um, I I think that uh Randy and I were talking about this a little bit before and he asked me what percentage of people did he
[00:38:00] Speaker 1: think agreed with me, and I said that I thought, I wasn't sure, but I thought that the vast majority of people probably didn't agree with me and thought it was no big deal that Hooters was a sponsor for the Hula bowl, because in this respect, that if you do think it's a problem, then it causes both men and women to have to think about very uncomfortable realities about discrimination, about harassment, other factors. And yes, it it is very I I really appreciate you calling, Harriet, but it is sort of easy to say, yes, this is a human issue, we all deserve respect and and we're all people. But the reality is that's not happening. Women are often degraded and looked at and and judged in very different ways. And so in order to really look at that, it it's very uncomfortable.
[00:38:53] Speaker 2: Well, my point, too, is that someone who is an editorial, uh, you know, an editor of a newspaper, a major newspaper in Hawaii, if they're first, if the comment out of their mouths is, it's a woman's issue, without, you know, filling it out, I think people will therefore turn off. They'll say, oh, yeah, this worries women, but it doesn't bother anybody else. So I think as a, you know, the media itself has to constantly keep in mind that what they say and what they print in their papers becomes what the attitudes of a community are, in a lot of instances. Mhm.
[00:39:29] Speaker 1: But you know, Harriet, my feeling is that what's the sense of having a woman editorial page editor if she doesn't speak out and say these things and get people to really thinking about it and discussing it, because what happened basically after we did the editorial was we got letters, both pro and con, saying, yeah, saying, I disagree with that or I I agree with that. So this is to me, my job is to uh, encourage discussion, and um, really thought on these issues that affect us. Mhm. Good, thank you.
[00:40:00] Randall Roth: In case you joined us late, this is the Price of Paradise Radio Show. I'm Randy Roth and my guests are columnists Bud Smiser and senior editor and editorial page editor Diane Chang, both of whom are with the Honolulu Star-Bulletin. We're talking about recent events in Hawaii and your calls are welcome. The number is 955-8821. We have a caller from Palolo, Bill, and Bill, you're a regular caller, so if you could try to keep your comment relatively short, I'd appreciate it.
[00:40:27] Bill: Oh, absolutely short. Uh Good morning, Randy, and Diane, and Bud. I guess. Um, since you have facts there, uh with a copy to you, it's actually it's a letter to Rod Tim. I have a letter uh from the city council uh uh from Steve Holmes, and uh the lady was talking about pesticides and uh what I wanted to do was just to bring out that uh a truth and drinking water bill has been killed in the house and in the Senate. And if the Star-Bulletin would just take the littlest bit of uh of interest in this, uh we can get the truth about our drinking water on each island.
[00:41:02] Randall Roth: Okay, Bill, I've got your facts in my hand, and I'm going to be giving a copy of that to both Bud and Diane.
[00:41:08] Bill: And I have a copy of that uh that letter I can give you from uh Steve Holmes to the the Senate uh house and Senate chair on finance.
[00:41:15] Randall Roth: Okay. Thank you, Bill. Thanks a lot. Bye. Bishop Estate. Uh, Bud, you've written a whole. Boy, Randy, you don't kid around here.
[00:41:26] Bud Smyser: Well, I I I appreciate Bill's calls, but um uh we we get a number of them.
[00:41:30] Diane Chang: But I think Randy's trying to get us in trouble here. What do you think?
[00:41:33] Randall Roth: Well, I'm going from one one hot topic to another. Bud, you've written a a series of articles on Bishop Estate. Have you gotten any Christmas cards from uh the trustees lately, or uh?
[00:42:03] Bud Smyser: that its its value has been estimated by some trustees anywhere from 10 billion up to 35 billion. Uh its annual payout to the schools, last I heard, was around 100 million, which is around 1% of 10 billion. And we have kids out there who need to be helped. There's a crying need for help uh from Hawaiian children. Now, I don't think money should be wasted, but I think the Bishop Estate should spend every penny it possibly can spend wisely today to help Hawaiian children, and not be quite so preoccupied with protecting the corpus, as they call it, keeping the assets up. Uh if today's Hawaiian children get started on the right track, the needs of future Hawaiian children will will not be as great.
[00:43:11] Diane Chang: But I think there's a tremendous need right today to do more things. I a little bit that I know and I I'm not a teacher about the programs that the Bishop estate, the Kamehameha schools has is that they they're pretty good programs, but they're like a thin crust on a pie. They reach a small fraction of Hawaiian people. We ought to thicken up that crust. We ought to reach more people. And uh Pinky Thompson, who is no longer a trustee, has retired, uh felt the focus should be on actually on um on on on on children from the moment they're born, [unintelligible — audio glitch] working with mothers before the children are born, because there's more and more evidence that getting started right helps make the whole rest of the trips through life better.
[00:43:21] Randall Roth: Diane, with with that background, the the news item that uh the Star-Bulletin has reported on in the last couple of days is uh is real specific. Evidently, the State of Hawaii uh through the Attorney General's office has been asking to see certain records that the Bishop Estate has. And as I understand it, the Bishop Estate has said, well, come on down and take a look at them, but we're not going to actually give you a a set of of records because we're afraid that our competitors will get access or have access to information that could work to our our disadvantage. What's the story on that? What's going on?
[00:44:24] Diane Chang: Basically, I think what they said was that we're we're willing to show it to you but we don't want the public to know what what we're doing which I think is pretty strange. Um there is a minority opinion that really what the Bishop Estate is doing is none of our business because it's a business and it's doing the trustees are doing the best that they can to raise the money in order to do all their good deeds, but that's a minority opinion because as we know, the Bishop Estate affects us all. Um what they do affects [unintelligible — audio glitch] cost of land holdings and and so many other things so And of course, one sore point with me particularly is that the appointments to those very lucrative trustee positions are tied in politically and there we go again with the I know Bud that you don't think politics is a dirty word but uh that there is a lot of cronyism in the system and and this is a perfect example of it.
[00:45:18] Randall Roth: Okay, we have a couple callers on the line and I'm going to uh jump ahead to Bill because the note says his comment has to do with the Bishop Estate. So Bill from Maui, good morning.
[00:45:27] Bill: Good morning. On this Bishop Estate, it seems to me that it's gotten so huge, way beyond anything contemplated. This should be split into at least four parts. Bishop one, two, three and four. And then you'd have four sets of trustees that could compete with producing revenue, producing benefits, and it's just too huge an entity right now for even the state to regulate it, of course, it's not regulated.
[00:45:54] Randall Roth: Let's see what uh Bill has to or what Bud has to say about that, Bill.
[00:45:58] Bud Smyser: Well, I think the Bishop Estate needs to be reorganized, but I'm not sure that's the way. I think that we have the example of the Campbell Estate, in which the trustees set broad policy, and then they delegate it to other people to execute, and they stay out of the day by day execution. I don't think the Bishop Estate trustees stay out of the day by day execution. And it has its its principal entity are the the Kamehameha schools. And it's been suggested maybe there should be a separate board of trustees for the Kamehameha schools uh but un under under the umbrella of the Bishop Estate up on top. And then they have um they [unintelligible — audio glitch] to divide their activities between profit activities and not-for-profit activities, so they need a corporation for non-profit activities and a corporation for profit activities, but those could could and should be under the wing of the of the trustees with the overall responsibility. But I I think the present trustees, um partly perhaps to justify their high salaries, meddle too much in the day by day operations.
[00:47:02] Randall Roth: Okay. Thank you, Bill. We appreciate your call. We have a caller from Wailuku, Hahala, James. Good morning, James.
[00:47:07] James: Good morning, comma. Isn't it ironic that uh some of those who are most vocal advocates of Hawaiian sovereignty have received a higher education largely resulting from Anglo-European culture. Uh I'd like a response, please.
[00:47:27] Bud Smyser: Well, I think the American system uh has made it possible. Uh I mean, I I don't think we even necessarily have the sovereignty move we have today if we didn't have statehood. Statehood has provided the the background in which this movement can come out and flourish and I I think it's I think it's basically healthy, but I don't want to see it turn racist. I think if it turns racist, we're losing, all of us in Hawaii are losing terrible, terribly. But I I think there are there are claims out there that ought to be addressed, and they ought to be addressed in a way that most of the people, Hawaiian and non-Hawaiian, can accept. That's not going to be easy, but Diane's going to have editorial about that for the next week.
[00:48:06] Diane Chang: I'm just going to stick this apple fritter in my mouth and gag off on this one. I'm in too much trouble already.
[00:48:11] Randall Roth: Okay, thank you, James. Uh, in case you joined us late, you're listening to the Price of Paradise Radio Show. Usually we focus on one specific topic, but today we're hearing our guest's thoughts about anything and everything that has been in the news. Diane Chang Chang is the senior editor and uh editorial page editor of the Star-Bulletin, and Bud Smiser presently is its columnists and previously has been its editor. They will be happy to respond to your question or your comment. All you have to do is to call us at 955-8821. But a topic that I know is near and dear to you and I'm sure you're quite concerned about things right now is the East-West Center. Uh looks as though their funding is in great jeopardy. Uh they recently lost their president. What's the future of the East-West Center?
[00:49:02] Bud Smyser: Well, on Friday noon, the friends of the East-West Center are sponsoring a talk by Kenji Sumita, the interim president, and he's going to talk about what's the future of the East-West Center, maybe I could answer better after that. Uh I I I I don't know the answer to that question. Uh I I think that the East-West Center has real problems. I think one of the problems is it has a very large percentage of tenured people, which make for in inflexibility in in the operation of the center. And uh I I know that both of the past two presidents, Michael Oxeinberg and uh Victor Lee, found themselves unable to do things that they thought would help the center because they simply didn't have the financial flexibility to do them. And uh I I I wrote a column quoting um Frank Bouss um who also sits on the Board of Overseers of uh the Institute of International Affairs at Harvard and has so he has that basis for comparison. He he thinks we ought to shut the East-West Center down and start over again. That's a little radical, but uh who knows?
[00:50:10] Randall Roth: Uh, Diane, another topic that's been in the news lately and something I know the Star-Bulletin has talked about on on a variety of occasions is same-sex marriages. And right now, the big thing is is whether or not there's going to be some commission that will study that and report back to the legislature and how that commission should be constituted and and whether the commission is stacked in one direction or the other. What what's your position on on the issue?
[00:50:37] Diane Chang: Well, our position at the Star-Bulletin is that um same-sex marriage is a civil rights issue, and although we've done opinion polls that show that most people do not favor or agree with the concept, we think it's a civil rights issue, and so we certainly think it's it's like gays in the military. We we believe that there there should be no means or method of of preventing them from serving there. So
[00:51:01] Randall Roth: So you're saying that the Star-Bulletin supports what?
[00:51:06] Diane Chang: All the things that are going to get a lot more letters coming in. Same-sex marriage, gays in the military. It's basically a civil rights issue.
[00:51:13] Randall Roth: Just to step back and just let whatever the implications of the Supreme Court decision on point Well, we certainly think that the commission uh should be filled with new members because they're right now I think it was disbanded because of uh some representatives, church representatives, there was the feeling that it was um inappropriate to appoint the members based on religion.
[00:51:35] Bud Smyser: My sense is that the community is quite accepting of same-sex partnerships, where it gets uptight is when the word marriage is used.
[00:51:43] Randall Roth: That one word does make a difference, doesn't it? Uh, gambling is is it dead this year? I'm hearing different things. I am hearing that the gambling issue is pretty much gone for this year, but then just the other day somebody told me that at the 11th hour this year, in order to fund something that's terribly important and terribly popular, some form of gambling is is going to stick its foot through the door. Diane, what's going on?
[00:52:09] Diane Chang: Well, I think after Bud's brilliant column last week, it probably is dead because he said it very eloquently. Take it, Bud.
[00:52:17] Bud Smyser: The ball's been handed to you, Bud. Run. Well, I've watched this fight go on every year uh since 1946 when I first covered the legislature, that's way back. And it happens all the time, but previously we had governors who we were quite sure would veto a bill. Now, Governor Cayetano has, in indicated he's open-minded. I hope uh I hope if the bill should pass, he would veto it. But I think the pressure is on, and I think most of the reasons, the economic reasons for it are phony. Uh and I I would be very worried about something happening in the last few days of the legislature.
[00:53:26] Diane Chang: Well, if you if you use the letters to the editor as a gauge, most of our letters have been anti-gambling. So that that's good to see that there is that vocal strong feeling out in the community and uh Governor Ariyoshi and Senator Inouye have both come out very strongly against any kind of legalized gambling in Hawaii, so We're the only state with a quarantine law, and I think that's good. It wouldn't hurt us to be the only state that doesn't allow gambling. I I think that could be good and besides you know our our people love to fly to Las Vegas to gamble, they can work out their impulses there.
[00:53:24] Randall Roth: What uh Diane, do you see as as our biggest challenge? People here in Hawaii who who hope that their children and children's children can grow up and call this place home and think of it as paradise, um what should our biggest challenge be?
[00:53:39] Diane Chang: Well, I think our biggest challenge is is keeping people here. I I'm afraid to see I'm seeing too many of my friends and other people moving away because they can't make a go of it, they can't afford the housing here, they can't get a job uh well, one job, they have to get two or three jobs in order to make it in order to send their kids to private school because they have fears and concerns about the public school system. I think that's going to be our biggest challenge in the coming year is just to keep the local kids, the local people here.
[00:54:11] Randall Roth: So to turn that into a priority, you would say our number one priority should be to bring down the cost of living?
[00:54:17] Diane Chang: Well, it's kind of hard to do that right now because we're sort of in an emergency state where where all these things are happening, the tourism is down, the financial restraints, so I think if you keep that in mind as always, the number one goal, then then we we have to be working toward that, if not we're just going to keep floundering every year.
[00:54:36] Bud Smyser: Bud, do you see our our number one challenge differently? I uh I know that the bank economists for both both the large banks, Bank of Hawaii and First Hawaiian Bank, uh are reasonably optimistic or maybe not too pessimistic about Hawaii's economic future. I'm more pessimistic. I think our economy is in trouble. Our biggest growth industry in recent years has been government, and we got to stop that. A government growth, but that's that's the only real growth industry we've had in recent years. It grew 40% or more in 10 years. Uh military I think will stay the same and we are to we are we are to bless ourselves that that's the case. I don't think it'll go up. Sugar is going down, pineapple's going down, construction is uh maybe it will it will fall on the state to have to pump up construction just to balance the economy and uh but we have rough economic years ahead of us. We have as as as bad an outlook as we've ever had since uh 1950 when the dock strike came and when we got unemployment up above 20%. Um we might see it get into high numbers in the future. I I hope it doesn't happen because I I think it can be very, very dangerous, it can it can create a lot of angry people and a lot of bad things can happen.
[00:55:54] Randall Roth: This is the Price of Paradise Radio Show. I'm Randy Roth and my guests are columnist Bud Smiser and editorial page editor Diane Chang, both of whom are with the Honolulu Star-Bulletin. We're talking about recent events in Hawaii and your calls are welcome. The number is 955-8821. What about the joint operating agreement? Well, you're really a troublemaker. Well, we're running out of time, I thought I would Well, you get this guy out of here. you thought a caller would bring that up, you didn't wait for a caller to bring that up. How devious, you gets us up this early to bring this up. You guys are telling all my secrets. Um, well, basically we've got a partnership between the advertiser and the Star-Bulletin, and while at least technically there's separate ownership, it the two work in conjunction at least have um uh a lot of things that they do together as opposed to in competition with one another.
[00:56:45] Bud Smyser: Bud, what's going on here? Good thing, bad thing, what's going to happen to the JOA? because a lot of If we didn't have the JOA, we'd have only one newspaper, that's the one short of it. The second of it is that um the across the country there are 26 or so And they pool all the activities of the newspaper circulation and so on, advertising, except the news staffs are separately owned. The news departments are separately owned, they have separate editorial budgets and they can do anything they want with those budgets.
[00:57:25] Unknown: So, maybe they don't compete for for advertisers, but they compete on a conceptual level in terms of Well, they they have the freedom to do what they want. Most readers don't believe they have the freedom to do what they want, but they do. They aren't I think the reason the two newspapers agree on issues is because they're both so wise. Okay. Well, Diane, right now as I understand it, there's a bill in the legislature that wouldn't break up the JOA, that's a product of a federal legislation, but it would require the JOA or the individual newspapers to divulge to the public what their profits are. Do I have that right?
[00:58:03] Diane Chang: I think so.
[00:58:05] Unknown: Are you threatened? Are you threatened by that? Well, does that attack freedom of the press? Is that something that we, the people of Hawaii, should be concerned about or is that not a big deal?
[00:58:16] Diane Chang: Well, I think there was a move uh to really get into this curtailing of freedom of the press, especially in the past when they wanted I'm not sure if they still do. The legislators wanted to know how much money and what kind of real estate holdings and assets that the editors had, and I really found it hard to believe they couldn't figure out there was a difference between tax uh paid these these legislators are paid with tax money. They make laws that we all have to live by and they felt that that the same measurement should be done uh should be placed on editors of you know, media, when if you don't like what we say you you don't buy us or you don't watch us or or whatever. So, But, did she just change the subject on me? Hey, I'm good at that, aren't I? Did she just answer a question I didn't I didn't ask? I don't know if she did that or not, but I would I would say, well I would say that the Damn, there's an attorney in here. The law that's involved is a is a federal law and the federal government hasn't asked for any disclosure. [unintelligible — audio glitch]'s the state going to get in the act for?
[00:59:17] Unknown: Okay. Uh we're down to the last few minutes and I'm just wondering if each of you had to make a prediction something about what Hawaii will be like in 10, 20, 30 or 50 years, uh whether it's a a pretty picture or one that's not so pretty, what would you predict, bud?
[00:59:37] Bud Smyser: I think the next 10 years are going to be very critical to Hawaii's future. I think the sovereignty movement is just beginning to play out. I think if it plays out constructively, this will be a happier, better, healthier place. But it's we're kind of playing with dynamite along the way, so let's see how it goes. But I think it places a tremendous burden on leaders to exercise leadership responsibility wisely of all ethnic groups, business, labor, any we need we need leadership. Constructive leadership concerned with a better Hawaii more than we've needed it for a long time.
[01:00:17] Unknown: Do you see it out there?
[01:00:19] Bud Smyser: I worry. I I think that um I I like so far what I see Governor Cayetano doing. I think that more and more the role of leadership is passing to government simply because we have more absentee ownership of our businesses. It used to be the old big five, I know, were reviled and so on and they were supposed to be bad, and they did do a lot of bad things. But they the owners of those companies did know that their children and grandchildren were going to grow up in Hawaii. And so they had a they had a concern for Hawaii and I I could give you a long list of bad things they did, I could give you a long list of good things they did.
[01:00:55] Unknown: Okay. Diane, prediction.
[01:00:57] Diane Chang: Okay. Well, I don't want to depress everybody on a Sunday, but I'll give you a worst case and best case scenario. Okay, the worst case scenario is in 10 or 15 years, this is going to be a place with very rich people and very poor people, and then the middle class will have moved to the mainland to make a go of it. That's the worst case scenario if things don't change. The best case is that if we start to get young younger people, new people into law making positions, because let's face it, a lot of the people who are running government have been there too long, and they need to give other people a chance and get fresh ideas in there. If that happens and people start to get interested and vocal, and they actually demand their government back, then I think that we can turn it around, and this will be a great place to live.
[01:01:40] Bud Smyser: And Randy Roth has helped very much to start this process.
[01:01:44] Unknown: Thank you, Bud Smiser and Diane Chang, both from the Honolulu Star-Bulletin. Our show is produced by Susie Roth, our technical director is Jeff Filardi, and Jeff just got a new job here at Hawaii Public Radio. He's now director of Operations for all of Hawaii Public Radio and we want to congratulate Jeff for that. Just to let you know, we've got some interesting future shows coming up. Specific topics that we're going to be covering next week, Should government be funding broadcasting like Hawaii Public Radio and the Arts? After that, we're going to talk about tort reform. Uh, do we need it, and if so, why has it been so slow in coming? After that, we've got healthcare, as or is one of our guests that day will describe, it sickness care here in Hawaii. There are our guests are going to be quite critical of our system in Hawaii, I believe, during that show. We appreciate your listening to the Price of Paradise, and hope to have you with us next week. Thank you much.
[01:02:47] Unknown: This is KHPR 88.1 Honolulu, KKUA 90.7 Wailuku and serving Central Oahu and the North Shore at 88.7. Translator K204BB, Haleiwa, Schofield Barracks.