Funding the Symphony
Price of Paradise · Hawaii Public Radio · aired 1995-06-04
Guests: Jim Becker (retired journalist); Betsy Chapman (board member, Honolulu Symphony Society); Tom Bennett (Executive Director, Honolulu Symphony Orchestra)
Duration: 1:00:47

[00:00:00] Randall Roth: Good morning. This is Randy Roth, host of the Price of Paradise radio show. Our topic this morning is the symphony. It may get a bit confusing at times because there are actually two organizations that are involved when we talk about the symphony. The first is called the Honolulu Symphony Society. It's 90 years old, has a rich history, but at this point in time, other than some large musical instruments, lists of past supporters, and a $5 million endowment, it doesn't have much.
[00:00:28] Randall Roth: The musicians are gone. Its executive director left for the mainland last week, and so we're going to call it the the society or perhaps the older organization. The second organization is called the Hawaii Symphony Orchestra. It's only one year old and it has all of the musicians, and it has an executive director by the name of Tom Bennett, but it also has some financial problems. And in fact, generally speaking, the musicians haven't been paid since January. We're going to call this new organization the orchestra or from time to time, the new organization.
[00:01:00] Randall Roth: There are talks of a merger right now, but rather than focus on the specifics of those sensitive talks, we plan to take a close look at what might be called the big picture. We don't intend to take sides or cast blame. We're much more concerned about the future than the past. Even if the society and the orchestra were to merge tomorrow, there still would be a number of hurdles to clear if Hawaii is to have a high quality financially viable symphony.
[00:01:26] Randall Roth: When we open the lines for calls, one of my jobs will be to keep the conversation as friendly and constructive as is possible. With me in the studio today are Jim Becker, Betsy Chapman, and Tom Bennett. Jim is a retired journalist who reviewed the opera and symphony for the Honolulu Star Bulletin for a number of years.
[00:01:43] Randall Roth: If you take a look at page B3 of this morning's Honolulu advertiser, you'll find an article on the symphony that was written by Jim. Betsy was a member of the Honolulu Symphony Society's board for about 20 years before stepping down in 1991. She studied at the Harvard Business School and has served on the boards of a number of local organizations.
[00:02:02] Randall Roth: Tom has served as the executive director of the Hawaii Symphony Orchestra, that's the new organization, for the last year. Prior to that, he was operations manager for the Indianapolis Symphony Orchestra. He has an AB in economics and music from Bowden College, an MBA and MA in arts administration from SMU. Well, I guess we should start this conversation by going to the fellow who wrote the article in this morning's advertiser.
[00:02:26] Randall Roth: Jim, first of all, good morning.
[00:02:27] Jim Becker: Good morning, Randy. How are you?
[00:02:29] Randall Roth: Secondly, uh is there any one point that you made this morning in that article that you'd like to begin our conversation by emphasizing?
[00:02:36] Jim Becker: Well, yes, I um there's an idea in the article of for the Year of the Symphony, uh by which I mean I would like to see us try to summon the civic will, the kind of civic will that keeps a National Football League team in Green Bay, tiny Green Bay or um a major opera and orchestra festival in Santa Fe, which is a small place. I'd like to see a community effort uh involving everybody, the corporates, corporations whose giving has been falling by any standards,
[00:03:09] Jim Becker: um the government to some extent, unions, schools, teachers, kids, uh everybody on the same page in one major effort to establish an orchestra in Honolulu uh on firm long range economic uh basis.
[00:03:25] Randall Roth: Okay. And and we will talk some more about that in just a bit. But Betsy, is there anything in particular you'd like to emphasize before we really get rolling into this conversation?
[00:03:33] Betsy Chapman: Well, having served on the board of the Symphony for 20 years, as you mentioned, uh I I find looking back that the most difficult problem has been uh to diffuse the camp spirit so to speak between the board of management and the orchestra members who are unionized. We have to make sure that our symphony is totally focused, all of us together as Jim said. And also that um re-establishing our credibility in the community, I think is another major problem before any of these beautiful goals that we all seek can possibly be achieved.
[00:04:09] Randall Roth: Mhm. And when you talk about uh the musicians on the one hand and the board on the other, you say there's a a natural tendency
[00:04:15] Betsy Chapman: Well, as like business and business with unions and corporate leaders, uh the the goals, especially in a in an arts organization are different. Uh these people are artists and they are driven by dreams and I I bless them for that. I wouldn't have served the Symphony for 20 years if I hadn't agreed with what they are looking at for themselves and for the community.
[00:04:35] Betsy Chapman: And the spirit of the music that that presents itself, but there is a practical side to this which is funding.
[00:04:42] Randall Roth: So the people on the board tend to look at the world a little bit differently than the musicians.
[00:04:46] Betsy Chapman: From a more practical point of view and we must not be dream driven as as I've said. Uh we must be very aware of what it takes to fund the level of music that we all will attend. And as we grow, we have to fund it before we grow rather than trying to fund it after we have grown. Okay.
[00:05:03] Randall Roth: And somewhere between the the board on one on the one hand and the musicians on the other, I guess you would put our executive director, huh?
[00:05:10] Tom Bennett: I'm afraid he's caught right in the middle.
[00:05:12] Randall Roth: Caught in the middle. Well, Tom Bennett, you've been the executive director of the orchestra, which is is the newer organization, the one that has the musicians but is not in good shape financially. Um, what do you think of Betsy's comments?
[00:05:24] Tom Bennett: Well, in some ways there there can be a natural uh conflict between board and management and the musicians, uh but there are ways around that and dealing with it from a from a cooperative standpoint. Uh, and that that it's it's kind of like [unintelligible — audio glitch] corporate philosophy uh that that can apply to a car industry. I mean they they it's it's not just that the musicians are unionized. There are there are so many unions in the country and and every corporation deals with that differently.
[00:05:51] Tom Bennett: Uh, some of our solutions include the musicians being voting members on the board of directors except for financial matters by by bylaws and articles of incorporation. Uh that the statement about the musician's being behind in pay and the financial troubles that we are going through. Uh, myself and several members of our staff are also behind in pay.
[00:06:10] Tom Bennett: I don't think the musicians would continue to be making music if if I were still getting paid. Um, it's it's the dedication that the board has behind solving that problem and the cooperation uh mutually that that will help solve that problem.
[00:06:24] Randall Roth: Okay. Um earlier, Jim, you were saying that uh we need to make this the year of the symphony and have a a total community effort. Let's assume number one that the two organizations do merge. And let's assume number two that the community does come together and supports the new symphony uh financially. Will everything be alright from that point on or are there still hurdles that have to be gotten over?
[00:06:48] Jim Becker: Well, we course we need a long range uh solution. Uh and I don't suggest that uh we go cap in hand uh uh from door to door uh hunting up loose change. I'm I'd like to see a complete mental shift uh uh in our community uh to recognizing the fact that that there's nothing more vital to the arts, uh to the culture of a of a community and to the quality of life than a major than a first-class symphony orchestra.
[00:07:16] Randall Roth: One of the points you made in your article that struck me was the the line about aging and dwindling audiences. How do you turn that around?
[00:07:24] Jim Becker: It's a good question. It's a very good question and uh as you say, I mentioned that in the article. I think that we have the basis here uh for ideally, uh racially, ethnically, um we have a whole uh music and Hawaiians are synonymous. Uh classical music goes back over a century to the days of Henry Berger who organized the Royal Hawaiian band in the days when it was a real Royal Hawaiian band and who played symphony music.
[00:07:49] Jim Becker: Uh we have uh [unintelligible — audio glitch] background of our community, Japan, for example. There is a uh a corporate funded symphony orchestra in every city in Japan. There are seven in Tokyo, China, Korea, pouring out classically trained Western musicians. Uh we've had four or five of them uh in our uh community uh playing with our orchestra or singing with our opera in the last couple of years.
[00:08:15] Jim Becker: Even now the Philippines are starting to come out. The people who are here are the kind of people I think who would support uh a major symphony orchestra [unintelligible — audio glitch] the other things that would flow from that.
[00:08:29] Randall Roth: Okay. Um Tom, you have a comment to make?
[00:08:31] Tom Bennett: I'd like to capitalize on on your comments about about the the ethnic diversity. Uh, I think the the successful orchestras around the country recognize the community that they're in and try to capitalize upon the strengths and or weaknesses, whether they be corporate support or big foundations, uh etc. Um, I think the advantage of Hawaii is the ethnic diversity, and the way, speaking in terms of big picture, for long term support of an orchestra here, is to diversify the kind of product that is presented.
[00:10:02] Tom Bennett: But Betsy, you used the word practical and I think realistic uh earlier.
[00:10:07] Randall Roth: When I called around to the corporate community and asked them their thoughts on what's gone on and what lies ahead for the symphony, a couple of things struck me. Number one, without exception, they would say we're disgusted at the way things have been going the last couple years. You know, they they have to build back up credibility, etc. Um, but also there was the sense that culture and the arts aren't a real high priority in the community and they try to uh give their money in the direction that they think community values are are pointed.
[00:10:37] Randall Roth: Um from a real practical, realistic standpoint, what has to be done in order to get the corporate community back on board to support the symphony?
[00:10:45] Betsy Chapman: Oh, I wish I had the answer to that. Well, it's it's, I think just reestablishing our credibility as a unified force. Once once we present um one face to the community with a will that is refreshed, I think it will capture their attention. Because we have lost so many um major corporations, um our own major corporations here that used to do most of the funding.
[00:11:09] Betsy Chapman: We have not had any group to replace that corporate giving, and I don't know how you handle that. Most of the uh larger corporations that we have, like Long's, for instance, and Safeway, are not based here, so it's very difficult to get money from from headquarters. Um, I don't know how you're going to get that kind of money again from corporations when there are so many other needs which are obvious today, as you mentioned before, education and the economic development of this community.
[00:11:33] Betsy Chapman: I think that is something that has to happen before we're going to get corporate.
[00:11:36] Randall Roth: Okay. Well, in case you joined us late, this is Randy Roth, I'm the host of the Price of Paradise radio show. We're talking about the symphony today. Our guests in the studio are Betsy Chapman. She's a long-term resident of Hawaii, who's been very active in the community, served for about 20 years on the Symphony Society Board. She has graduate study at Harvard Business School.
[00:11:56] Randall Roth: We have Jim Becker, who wrote a column for the Honolulu advertiser this morning. As Jim puts it, he's been hooked on symphonic music since the age of of 15. He told me a story about the first time he he listened to the symphony, said, wait a minute, why hasn't anybody told me about this before now? Jim was a foreign correspondent with the Associated Press in places like China, Korea, Vietnam, Japan, the Middle East, India, etc., and was the AP Bureau Chief in Manila, New Delhi, and Honolulu.
[00:12:21] Randall Roth: Uh, he spent 10 years with the Star Bulletin as a columnist and reviewed the opera, dance, and symphony. And very interestingly, according to Jim, he never darkened the door of a university until he was 48 years old. Tom Bennett is also in the studio. He's the executive director of the Hawaii Symphony Orchestra. That's the newer organization that has the musicians that also has some financial problems.
[00:12:43] Randall Roth: Uh before joining the Hawaii Symphony Orchestra, he was the operations manager for the Indianapolis Symphony Orchestra. He has an AB in Economics and Music from Bowden, uh MBA, MA in arts administration from SMU. Uh, we've already got some people on the line. Anyone else who would like to um call up and and get in line, our number is 955-8821 and neighbor islanders are always invited to call collect.
[00:13:05] Randall Roth: The number again is 955-8821. Well first, we have Lynn Johnson on the phone, who is the chair of the uh Honolulu Symphony Society or so-called older organizations board and we just wanted to get Lynn's thoughts real quickly and then we're going to um uh move on to our callers. Jeff, do you have Lynn on the line? Lynn, good morning.
[00:13:26] Speaker 7: Good morning.
[00:13:27] Randall Roth: Uh, have you had an opportunity to listen to the last uh 15 minutes?
[00:13:30] Speaker 7: Uh yes, I have.
[00:13:32] Randall Roth: Any thoughts?
[00:13:33] Speaker 7: Well, um I guess I agree with everybody.
[00:13:36] Randall Roth: That's a good sign.
[00:13:38] Speaker 7: I agree that uh uh that we need to have a first-class symphony and that the only way to make it happen is for everybody to pull together. And I think we have a a selling job to do. I think we have to do a selling job to get people in the concert hall, and I think with people in the concert hall, we'll be able to sell the corporations on on sponsorships.
[00:14:00] Speaker 7: And uh I think a real strong case has to be made uh for having a first-class symphony because I think it is it is the cornerstone. It is the center of of what defines our soul as a community. And uh I think we have to work together to to make it happen.
[00:14:15] Randall Roth: Okay. Uh Lynn, can you stay on the line a bit longer?
[00:14:17] Speaker 7: Sure.
[00:14:18] Randall Roth: Okay, and we'll come back to you later on in the show. Jim Becker?
[00:14:20] Jim Becker: Hi, Lynn. This is Jim Becker. I have before me your Chairman's message, uh and uh I wanted to add that we all agree with you. Um, you make these the interesting points that the uh uh the presence of a symphony in a community not only raises the cultural tone, but that uh gives us uh uh gives the community access to the talents of these musicians uh who not only perform concerts but uh place uh chamber music and make the opera as good as it is and more importantly, teach.
[00:15:00] Jim Becker: I believe you have uh uh two uh two daughters who are taking music lessons, uh.
[00:15:06] Speaker 7: Mhm.
[00:15:07] Randall Roth: Okay. Uh we've got some people who have been waiting to ask a question or make a brief comment and I just want to remind them that uh we want our conversation to be as friendly and constructive as possible. So first, uh Rob Carroll from Honolulu, uh what can we do for you this morning?
[00:15:18] Speaker 9: Well, good morning, and I'm delighted to have a chance to talk to you. I'm the principal violist and I've been here for almost 20 years. Uh the one place where we could get funding is what we do in education. And I have, and I won't go through all the details, but I have done some research on it, made reports, and so on.
[00:15:32] Speaker 9: And uh I just want you to know that I played with the Boston Symphony and the Boston pops for 27 years and we never played an in-house children's concert. And what we do in this state, not just in Honolulu, but in the whole state, [unintelligible — audio glitch] education is so fantastic and the average citizen does not know that we have a tremendous effect on their children.
[00:15:53] Randall Roth: The people in the studio are are nodding uh they they're very much aware of that, Rob. We we appreciate uh your calling in and and sharing that with us. Um, we're expecting a lot of callers this morning. I I just want to say one thing more.
[00:16:03] Speaker 9: Go ahead. As as large a program as we have had with with the Honolulu Symphony Society, this year because we the members of the orchestra had to pick up that we have a small staff, and we have a lot of committees, and we have an education committee. We expanded our program. As a matter of fact, this morning, I'm going down uh uh to one of the hotels uh where the Kuana Kole intermediate school is giving a concert and I've been working with them on my own uh for no money uh to help the teacher.
[00:16:34] Speaker 9: We have an assisting the teachers program that is absolutely fantastic. What it takes for a youngster to learn to play an instrument is very singular and it and [unintelligible — audio glitch] requires a a kind of devotion and a concentration that is applicable to all of their teaching. Greg Shepard the uh the uh Rob, we've got to bring it together. I know you feel strongly about this.
[00:16:57] Speaker 9: I do, and and I cannot emphasize that we are number one in the country in education. This is by word of the head of symphonic services of the International [unintelligible — audio glitch] Federation of Musicians.
[00:17:08] Randall Roth: Okay. Thank you, and I thank you for your time, and I'd love to talk more about it. We'd love to have you longer and I I apologize, but we do have to move on. I'll just tell you that Betsy Chapman's sitting across the table for me with a big smile, nodding, you know, wildly. She agrees completely with what you're saying. I sent her a big hug and a kiss.
[00:17:23] Randall Roth: Take good care, everyone. Thank you, Rob. Waiting patiently in Alamoana is Bob. Good morning, Bob.
[00:17:28] Speaker 1: Uh, good morning. I'm afraid this is the first dissenting voice you're going to hear. Uh, as a child in the New York City public school system many years ago, in the early 40s, we had music appreciation all the time. Never saw a musician in our lives, we had music on records. My question, I have a question for the board.
[00:17:41] Speaker 1: Does anyone have any idea how much the average musician in the Symphony was making before all the financial troubles started for how many hours of work?
[00:17:49] Randall Roth: Okay. Tom, you can tell him exactly. I've got the figures here.
[00:17:52] Tom Bennett: Actually, you're better at that. I arrived in August, so so some of the history I'm not familiar with.
[00:17:56] Jim Becker: An average $26,000.
[00:17:59] Randall Roth: And that was for a 42 week year.
[00:18:01] Jim Becker: Yes.
[00:18:01] Randall Roth: 42 week year, $26,000, and according to a newspaper article a couple weeks ago, right now, it's $30,000 average. Tom, is that right?
[00:18:10] Tom Bennett: Yes.
[00:18:11] Randall Roth: Okay.
[00:18:12] Tom Bennett: Well, Jim, I want to say, if you want to see the end of Symphony Orchestras, go to Borders bookstore and look at the CDs. I can go to Borders and buy a CD for the price of a of a symphony ticket for far better fidelity for for uh it just, you people are are how then do how then do you explain uh the fact that uh you can go to Borders and buy an opera, but uh we had standing room only at almost all of our opera performances.
[00:18:35] Jim Becker: I haven't the vaguest idea.
[00:18:36] Randall Roth: Tom Tom Bennett's got the answer to that quick.
[00:18:38] Tom Bennett: Well, and don't necessarily have the answer uh other than the same comment happened in, you know, when when phonograph records came out, and and increases in audience size uh happened at that time, too. [unintelligible — audio glitch] think it's a it's a slightly different market from the CD standpoint. Um, there are certain disadvantages and people can hear, you know, the Berlin Philharmonic uh with a Beethoven Symphony.
[00:19:00] Randall Roth: but I think the fact that so many CDs are out there has also increased the number of people who have been exposed to classical music or or you know the Boston Pops or or whatever and I and I think there's there's a positive side of that as well. Okay. Bob, thank you for your call. We're going to move on to Myron in Hilo. Good morning, Myron.
[00:19:17] Speaker 8: Good morning Randy. Thank you for your show. Just a comment, um, Rob, the first gentleman that rung up there, uh, his uh message there in terms of education, there's been wonderful work done at the University of California at San Diego that has shown that a musical education in all disciplines upgrades aptitude by about 50 to 60 percent. This thing of education is very important and that is what's going to to effect or affect a long range view for a year of the symphony and hopefully it'll be years of a symphony. Uh music cannot be uh continued uh to be set uh outside classroom curriculum. For example, here on on the Big Island, uh young students in the in the elementary, uh intermediate and high school levels, that's an activity after school hours.
[00:20:07] Speaker 8: And uh the consciousness is is got to be rearranged or uh something has got to change the the attitude about uh what music really is. Music besides delivering emotional messages is is a means of conveying information in general. So, if there are some comments on education, uh the view of musical education uh in Hawaii, I should uh like to hear further on that and thank Rob for for his message also.
[00:20:33] Randall Roth: Thank you, Myron. You know it's interesting, I was saying earlier the corporate community is saying that the uh community at large is putting a a high value on education right now, and what I'm hearing all of you and our callers say is that that's what this is all about, that it's not just quote, culture and art. It's it's education, which I guess goes without saying. I don't think piano lessons ever hurt anybody. Uh, we have a caller from Miki Brice. Good morning, Brice.
[00:20:56] Speaker 2: Hey, um I think it's important to have acculturation. And what I mean by acculturation is that we need more exposure for um student students and also different people. And people need to feel comfortable going to symphonies. People who are not white. People who aren't, don't speak in a boarding school accent. And I think that it's it's very important that um with with all the different types of music, a lot of people there's like a alienation between people who like symphonic music and people who are caught up in this um popular culture music.
[00:21:45] Randall Roth: Brice, stay on the line. I I do want to come back to you. You've raised a very provocative point. Uh, first let's have Jim Becker make a comment and then Tom, I think you want to make a comment too.
[00:21:53] Jim Becker: You make a wonderful point. Um um music should be for everybody. Um, and we're trying to shed uh more light here than heat, but there are perceptions abroad. Uh, there are perceptions that somehow uh uh the symphony has become a uh a society play thing for Malihini Howlies. Uh there are perceptions that uh uh that it's for the elite. Uh as a kid who grew up uh in uh the ghetto of South Central LA and who uh as as Randy said, never, never went to college and who spoke peer jive, which is California pigeon until I was about 15 years old, uh I can assure you that music is there uh for everybody. Uh you don't need a an elite background to appreciate it. Um, and um I I'd like to hear what some of the others have to say on that same point.
[00:22:43] Randall Roth: Okay. Tom Bennett and Brice stay on the line. I want to come back to you. Tom Bennett?
[00:22:45] Tom Bennett: I made some comments earlier about reaching, doing concert specifically to the to the communities of of this state and and I guess I'd like to expound a little bit about that. I agree with Jim. I I talk to people and say, why don't you come to the symphony? And the person says, oh I don't own a tuxedo, I can't, I can't go to the symphony. Uh number one, in the education side, we have ensembles playing in every school on Oahu uh and and that's hopefully will have some some long term benefits. Uh the the types of concerts that we want to do include classical of course, of course, but we want to do our pops concerts. Uh we did a Duke Ellington, a concert at the shell and and and, it it's concerts like that, um, that that give a variety of of um possibilities for people to go to and enjoy a concert. That's, that's uh let's say the Brothers Cazimero at the Shell and the symphony is is accompanying, accompanying the Brothers or or Willie K, or the Makaha Sons or Society of Seven. We need to do that kind of variety and programming to reach as many people as possible. The other is to the other way is to reach as many people as possible. I mentioned before the Beethoven's Ninth to capitalize on that Japanese tradition and having 10,000 people come and sing Beethoven's Ninth because that's what they do in Japan.
[00:24:02] Randall Roth: Let let me ask Brice. Uh, Brice, you've you've heard the thoughts of a couple of people here in the studio, what do you think would um would do a good job of of broadening out the base of uh of people who attend the symphony and feel comfortable attending the symphony?
[00:24:16] Speaker 2: Well I, from what I hear about what um the director from um Indiana says, um I think that if they continue to do that, it'll increase the amount of people who are interested in the symphony. I think it's also important not to play warhorses, like the Honolulu Symphony used to play, they used to play the same old music, and you hear it year after year, and I mean, it it's good to um change, and it's also good to um do things that are obscure, like things by Gluck or by um more more things like Debussy or Delius. And I think it's also good to to like when there's ethnic festivals, have the symphony go down and um, you know, like, be there, like for the Hawaiian day and the Portuguese day, I mean, it's the the symphony workers would have to do a lot of work learning all different types of um music, but it's um it's important because.
[00:25:25] Randall Roth: Brice, you've you've asked great questions and made a great comment. My producer has told me I have to move on, we can't keep people waiting this long. Thank you very much. Uh we have Glen from Honolulu. Good morning, Glen.
[00:25:35] Speaker 4: Uh, good morning. Uh my wife and I are uh local, you know, oriental, and we're in our 40s uh so, when we uh attend the concerts on Sunday afternoons, we tend to be uh uh the younger people in the group. Um, and you know, we have this season we bought, uh we bought season tickets, and you know, whenever the symphony asks for money, we uh donate, you know, whatever we can. So um, we find it very frustrating, I personally find it very frustrating in that um, you know, what would it take to uh support a symphony in Honolulu? I mean is it, seems like the uh people who go to concerts can't give enough money, so, I mean what, how much do you need from uh the people, and how much do you need from like corporations?
[00:26:23] Randall Roth: Well you know, when I talked to people from the corporate community, they basically said the same thing. We need to see a plan. We need to see some particulars. Um, Betsy, I think you were commenting earlier before the show that that maybe one way of dealing with this is is to downsize, but then as the support comes in, to build back up. I know that's a very controversial issue uh whether to maintain the current size of of a professional full-time on contract um musicians or or to downsize with a a core of sorts and maybe um play different music or more limited music or maybe bring in some temporary people to fill it out. Uh you want to say a few more things about that, and then we'll get Tom's thoughts and move on.
[00:27:03] Betsy Chapman: Well I think that basically when we're we're talking about funding, aren't we? Right. We're assuming that we have a unified face. Uh we are assuming that we have been able to repair our image. Uh what we are talking about funding and I think that unfortunately at this point is what is the power behind the machine. You cannot play the concerts if you don't have the money to pay the musicians. But how are we going to get the money to pay the musicians? Well maybe you have to cut the number of orchestra members and I know this is a very difficult thing for the orchestra members to swallow, and I don't blame them. But we may have to to backtrack a tiny bit in size in order to be able to fund that orchestra in a manner that they're going to afford to live here. I mean this is this has been a very difficult problem. Uh once we do that and play uh these more ethnic concerts, and the community turns out, then very likely you can you can build from there. I do think downsizing is a very real option.
[00:27:58] Jim Becker: Well I think some some uh strong arm twisting uh in the corporate community is in order. I I'll give you an example, GTE which owns now owns Hawaiian Tel uh in its most recent quarterly report gave $400,000 to the Dallas Symphony and $10,000 to the Honolulu Symphony. I think this uh this sort of thing has to be readdressed. We've got to be on the same page. Uh one of our major contributors to all of the arts is Oceanic Cable and for their for their trouble they we uh they were uh savagely [unintelligible — audio glitch] attacked by the uh by the administration. Um not for for giving the money, but on another uh but I think that we should uh we should um um we should adopt the sort of philosophy uh that you see in Chicago, that you see in Cleveland. When somebody, when a corporation comes to Chicago to do business, it's made clear to them that part of their cost of doing business in Chicago is supporting the symphony, the same thing in Seattle, uh same thing in LA. We don't have it here. Most of our arm twisting goes for political contributions I'm afraid.
[00:30:23] Randall Roth: Some some naturally because we've talked about funding and I want to come back to some of the ways to maybe make this thing balance out if if tremendous increases in funding aren't forthcoming. Go ahead. It it would probably help if if more, you know, fortune 500 companies [unintelligible — audio glitch] headquartered here. But but the corporate support on the national basis is is a small percentage. And we have I I there was a fundraising seminar for our board and we were all surprised, myself included, that something in the range of 81 percent of all donations over the course of a year uh are from individuals. Corporations were something like 9 percent, foundations 6 percent and bequests, again getting back to individuals that was about 6 percent.
[00:31:05] Betsy Chapman: That's fascinating statistic.
[00:31:06] Randall Roth: Fascinating statistic [unintelligible — audio glitch] is very surprising. So I I think only looking to the corporations while we need their support that's that's not the only that's not the only solution. The solution in going to the corporations and the trend that is changing there is not a philanthropic gift, giving for the good of the cause, it's good for the community, but it's more of a a corporate sponsorship. It's it's more of if if it's advertising. It's their names in light. It's it's you know, GTE was the sponsor of the shell series.
[00:31:35] Betsy Chapman: But the corporate sponsorships have worked in the past. We've done that for a long time here. It's just sustaining those.
[00:31:43] Speaker 4: Uh, so if uh uh if all the uh concerts uh sold out, you know, through ticket sales, maximum ticket sales, what percent of worth percentage of the cost would that cover?
[00:31:54] Tom Bennett: That's that's usually uh for orchestras and this would be uh in our budgets that would be about the same as about 50 to 55 percent if if everything sold out.
[00:32:04] Randall Roth: Thank you, Glen. We appreciate your call. And keep coming. Come up and say hello to me the next Sunday. I, my wife and I have season tickets for Sunday as well. Okay, we've got a couple more people on the line but I want to remind listeners that this is the Price of Paradise Radio Show. I'm Randy Roth and with me in the studio are Betsy Chapman who is a member of the Honolulu Symphony Society Board for about 20 years, Jim Becker who is retired journalist and wrote a piece on page B3 of this morning's Honolulu Advertiser, also Jim is real familiar with the public radio station down here because he has the Hawaii Opera Theater previews that he does on Hawaii Public Radio. And we also in the studio have Tom Bennett who is the executive director of the Hawaii Symphony Orchestra which is the organization that's only about a year or so old that has all of the musicians and has been playing music. We um invite you to call in. The number is 955-8821. Uh all that we ask is that you keep your question or comment as as short as possible and uh we insist that everything be friendly and constructive because we know this can be a very emotional issue. Well we have uh George from Honolulu on the line. Good morning, George.
[00:33:10] Speaker 3: Good morning. Uh, probably Betsy Chapman can answer this question best. Uh whatever happened to the endowment fund of the Honolulu Symphony? I think there's probably $5 million sitting there and maybe it's earning 250, 300,000 a year at least, uh and it seems to be all tied up. Uh, can that money be released? Has any action been taken to try and get it transferred to the new symphony? What's the scoop?
[00:33:37] Betsy Chapman: Well that's a very good question. The the endowment is still intact, and it is intact because there are rules and restrictions that were set up when the endowment was created, which means that we cannot go into the body, the capital. Uh the the funds that are generated from that have been used in the past to make up what would could have been otherwise deficits. As uh Tom mentioned, 50 to 55 percent of income is raised by selling uh by sold out concerts. The balance of that, which if you're talking about a three or four million dollar symphony, is obviously debt ridden uh unless you can corporate funded [unintelligible — audio glitch] and all that kind of stuff we just been talking about. But, um that two or $300,000 is very important of course to uh to sort of put into the pot to try to decrease the upcoming deficits or whatever. But it cannot, we cannot go into the to the body of it. It's um it's hands-off, and always should be and will be hands-off. It's there to re to build upon so that we some day will hopefully have 10 million dollars or $20 million. Still the income from that with a growing orchestra is never going to be enough to cover the cost of running one without outside funding.
[00:34:43] Randall Roth: 20 percent I understand, right? Yeah, I I think it's been this is Randy Roth, and I think it's it's a bit confusing because as I understand it, and I'm inviting my guest to correct me if if this is incorrect, um, during the last year or so, the Honolulu Symphony Society, the older organization, borrowed against future revenue off of that endowment. And um and it resulted in a bill going through the state legislature and it's really quite complex. But I think the bottom line is that while they can't touch the endowment, they can do two things: one, they can borrow against future income, and two, they can go to specific donors and ask the donors to release them from their obligation to keep it in the endowment. I think according to the newspaper anyway, uh they took out something like $600,000 during the last year um with the donors permission, Betsy?
[00:35:30] Betsy Chapman: Well they have done that but it is not a wise thing to do. Right. First of all, and secondly, most of the donors who gave to that don't want their funds released to pay bills, and I can understand that. They want it there as a building block for the future so you can't count on that.
[00:35:44] Randall Roth: George, you asked the the great what we want to hear from Tom Bennett and I want to come back to you George.
[00:35:48] Tom Bennett: Endowment should never be invaded. If you look at some some uh comparison of orchestras around the country that that have had troubles, that they usually have very small endowments to complete the whole financial picture of of the organization between ticket sales, fundraising, endowment, government support, but those orchestras that have trouble, that are smaller than than a city that they should have invaded their endowment back in the 60s or the 70s. Uh so that should always be avoided.
[00:36:14] Randall Roth: George, does that respond to your question?
[00:36:16] Speaker 3: Well, partly, but I want to know uh if the Honolulu symphony is dead, uh what is ever going to happen to that money and can it be transferred?
[00:36:26] Betsy Chapman: Well, I don't know that that isn't more of a technical question that I'm capable of answering, but I know that [unintelligible — audio glitch] sense on the defunct Honolulu Symphony Board, let's put it that way. Uh, we last had a meeting that I attended last June. It was a seminar run by some very astute gentleman from Indiana which is where our Tom comes from. And the spirit of our of the old board is that that money should be used and will be uh absorbed into the unit that comes out of this unfortunate rift, uh this quiet period, let's put it that way that we've had. That money will be applied to the new symphony orchestra, whatever its name is. Be rest assured. That's the reason bankruptcy was not declared because if we had declared bankruptcy we would have lost the endowment. Okay. So we are trying very hard to hold onto that as a building block for whatever form the symphony takes.
[00:37:14] Randall Roth: Let's get two more comments on George's question. Thank you George. Uh, I want to hear something from Tom Bennett and then Lynn Johnson, who's the chair of the Honolulu Symphony Society, that's the older organization, she's the chair of the board of that organization. She's listening to this by phone and we're going to get her thoughts as well. First, Tom Bennett.
[00:37:29] Tom Bennett: You also mentioned the uh the endowment portion from a from a state bill uh and and to maybe to clarify some of the confusion on that, a portion of the Honolulu symphony endowment uh was uh was money that came from the the legislature. That's about $2 million. The bill that went through uh the language is it says to support uh of an orchestra based in Oahu. Uh, the big picture is to pay the musicians right? The big picture issue is if conflict again comes about in 10 years, that that money is used to make
[00:38:00] Speaker 11: music and not to pay off bank debt. And hopefully is I I see that as a a positive stance in in the in in any in any you know, conflict conflict uh in in negotiations. Well, you know, [unintelligible — audio glitch] management board couldn't use the endowment income to pay off debt um if if there's a strike or work stoppage or whatever. It's it's the goal of it is to stop conflict in the future. I I think it was a a gentle nudge from Sam Lee in the legislature to get this thing uh merged and back on the right track. Uh Lynn Johnson, you've been on the phone. Uh do you have any thoughts on this?
[00:38:35] Speaker 7: Lynn Johnson, are you there? In terms of the endowment question, um, uh, that's a it's a very there was some misinformation that that came forth on the air. I think basically what happened was is that in order to pay the musicians what we owed them, uh, we had to go into the endowment. Um, and uh, the only way we could go into the endowment was to go to particular donors and ask them if they would feel all right about our using their funds that they had given to the endowment to pay off our debts. And not everybody agreed, but enough agreed so that we were able to uh, sort of save the body by cutting off the leg, you might say. Mhm. Tough Tough decision. And so that's and so we, but there hasn't been any borrowing against the future earnings that I know of. I I've never heard that before. So that's why I, you know, I I don't know about that. But uh, Okay. but but I think the idea is the the whole I think one of the main reasons that the two sides, I think the Hawaii Symphony Orchestra is interested in coming together with the Honolulu Symphony is because of that endowment. Um, it's still um it is still managed by the uh Honolulu Symphony and um it's used to pay uh we have a space and we have two excellent employees that we hope uh will, you know, be able to work for symphonic music and that's what we're working towards right now.
[00:39:54] Speaker 11: Okay. Thank you, Lynn. Um, we've got uh several more callers who've been waiting patiently but we're going to put uh on the air real quickly, Jim Mofett, who is uh, and I forget the exact term, maybe Jim can help us out but I know he's the head of the Musicians Union, I think he's chair of their the orchestra committee. Chair there you go. Jim, good morning.
[00:40:13] Speaker 6: Hi, Milton Carter, is president of the Musicians Union.
[00:40:16] Speaker 11: Okay, so you're the chair of the committee, right? Right. Although my favorite my most important title as far as I'm concerned is associate principal and base clarinet in the orchestra. All right. Well, what's what's something real important that needs to be said that hasn't been said yet this morning?
[00:40:28] Speaker 6: I think the well I I want to shed more light than heat as Jim reminded us we're supposed to do. But I'm sorry that I have to say that cutting the size of the orchestra because our core is very small. I know you knew it, but I have to admit it. That's why I said it, Jim. See if you're listening.
[00:40:46] Speaker 11: We wanted to see if you were up at this ungodly hour for a musician.
[00:40:49] Speaker 6: But uh but that is counterproductive. And I think that the uh that looking ahead like Jim Becker has been talking about uh can only be achieved with keeping uh what we already have and not taking away from what we already have but but making making us um move ahead with what we have and it is certainly something that is uh doable.
[00:41:10] Speaker 11: Okay. Thank you Jim. Tom Tom Bennett here I think has a comment on that. All right. I have one additional comment on that from the standpoint of of the first thing that would be cut would be education. Uh whether that's uh if it's a number of musicians, that's fewer ensembles that go to the schools. Those are the the least cost effective for us to do. Uh they're not generally uh revenue producing and the education would go first.
[00:41:35] Speaker 6: I hesitated to even call in because I think we should be concentrating on the future and not about the past and I think that that those kind of arguments speak to the past and not how to move ahead uh and make things better for the future.
[00:41:48] Speaker 11: Okay. We we really appreciate that, Jim. Thank you for calling in. All righty. Thank you. We have Greg from Honolulu. Good morning, Greg.
[00:41:54] Speaker 5: Good morning.
[00:41:55] Speaker 11: What do you have for us today?
[00:41:57] Speaker 5: Well, I look that your education perspective hearing about all of this. I'm the education director with the Symphony, the Hawaii Symphony and uh Okay, is that the older one or the newer one? The new one. The Hawaii Symphony. We just have to keep that clear. Go ahead Greg. Absolutely. Uh, just hearing some of these things that have been spoken of, um, I want to address some of this. Especially that gentleman who uh discussed about buying a CD uh when you go to Tower Records and you buy a CD, you don't get the personality of all the musicians in the CD, you don't you don't get the atmosphere of going to a hall and listening to an orchestra play. It's the same thing. I I relate this to the same thing of what the baseball is what baseball major league baseball is going through. Um, they go on strike and they come back and no one wants to go to the games. You know they have a cynical face on them. And the same thing with uh the Hawaii audiences. There's a cynical face that on that Hawaii is wearing and they'd like to see what comes out of all this and what we need to show is that, and this is through education. What we need to show is that we are interested in what they think and we are sympathetic to what they want to hear. And and in the same respect, you can't give a child a book about algebra and say here. Go ahead, learn this. You don't need a teacher. Here's a book. There you go. You know you can't look at a picture of you can look at a statue by and appreciate the strokes that went into it, appreciate the immensity of what you're looking at through a picture.
[00:43:23] Speaker 11: Thank you, Greg.
[00:43:24] Speaker 5: Sure, thank you.
[00:43:25] Speaker 11: Um, you know Greg brought up the analogy to to major league baseball and and something I I wanted to ask those of you in the studio about, somebody, I I talked to a lot of people getting ready for the show, and somebody drew the analogy to minor league baseball and Triple-A ball, he said, according to him, in a city the size of Honolulu, historically musicians have seen a job with the symphony as as kind of like uh a minor league ball club job where you either move up to a bigger symphony uh or you decide that music isn't going to be a lifelong career, uh so that you're constantly turning the the membership of of the symphony. Tom Bennett is, is that an analogy that that has any truth to it at all?
[00:44:13] Tom Bennett: I'm not sure how to answer that, but uh the because I think his suggestion was that that we tend to focus on on the salary and say, gee, $30,000 a year, nobody can live on that in in Hawaii or it'd be very difficult. Um, we're thinking of them as in a position that they should expect to have for 20 30 40 years. And his point, I think is that that's just not the way it has it has worked around the country that instead it's been like a a baseball player going with a Triple-A team. It doesn't go with the idea of being on that team for 20 30 years, goes with the idea of playing a few years and then either moving up or or moving out. Just a a reaction real quickly and then I've got uh a special guest on the line that I want to go to.
[00:44:56] Speaker 11: Um I'm I sorry I get well, if it's just not the good analogy then we'll just we'll let it fall by the way. I'm not just pointing out there there are a lot of a lot of people who including the concert master of the orchestra, the brilliant Claire Sakai Hazard who born, reared and trained here in Hawaii has no, you know, has no ambition to uh to play for the Chicago [unintelligible — audio glitch] to treat this as a minor league job but as a lifetime job. Okay. And and there are some who have a long track record of of playing with the orchestra and and some who who actively audition for other orchestras. Okay. So we have that diversity of of goals and what not now already. Okay, well, Sam Lee just called up uh and I at my invitation, Sam is is chair of the uh uh house committee on culture and the arts and has been very much involved in the symphony for many many years. Sam, can you hear me?
[00:45:48] Speaker 10: Uh, yes, I can. Thank you, Randy.
[00:45:50] Speaker 11: Uh, have you had an opportunity to hear uh much of the show this morning?
[00:45:52] Speaker 10: Yes, I've been listening all the time.
[00:45:54] Speaker 11: Oh, great. Is is there anything that you'd like to add to what's been said?
[00:45:57] Speaker 10: I think it's time for everyone to get together. Uh I think the new orchestra is beginning to create the type of public support we need in Hawaii. We have several very, very established and long-standing institutions, the Bishop Museum, the Academy of Arts, the Royal Hawaiian Band, now the Opera, and we have to build the Symphony Orchestra. The Royal Hawaiian, I like to add, is over 100 years old, dating back to King Kalakawa and it is funded entirely by the City and County of Honolulu at $1.2 million. The state has been trying to help with the orchestra, the Symphony Orchestra, but it's now time for all the corporate sponsors, the old society, the musicians, and everyone to get together and pull together. Because it is an institution we need in Hawaii. It is not only educational, not only cultural, but I'd like to remind our business friends, it is an economic asset. People come to Hawaii because if they if an executive comes to Hawaii, he say he'll ask, what kind of cultural life do you have in Hawaii? We have the Bishop Museum, the Hawaii Opera, the Royal Hawaiian, Academy of Arts, and we still have the Symphony Orchestra, which is over 95 years old. Mhm. Sam, is it safe to assume that given the the budget crisis that the state is going through, that the symphony uh will be lucky to to maintain the support it's been getting from uh from the legislature. And as I talk to people in the corporate community, they say they've got less to give away, not more to give away, and they say culture and the arts is is not a high priority in the community as as they say see things. So here we are cheerleaders for the symphony, all of us. And all of the listeners are saying we got to come together, we got to make it work, etc. etc. But how do we do that? Where do we get that money? And Tom, I guess we go back to what you said initially and that is we just have to have a good plan. We've got to pull together and we've got to make sure it happens, huh?
[00:50:12] Speaker 11: Absolutely. And that means a budget next year that everybody is in agreement with that that has been certainly a part of uh of our part of the consolidation discussions between the Hawaii Symphony and the Honolulu Symphony. We have a five-year plan uh that that in many people's estimation is very conservative. Both of those budgets assume a 30% cut from the state. Uh we the the organization has been incredibly supportive uh from the state and and the city in the past and generally speaking, that has to be planned on [unintelligible — audio glitch] decrease and and we have a conservative plan that solves that. The conservative plan has no increase in endowment. And Betsy likes those words uh practical and realistic and conservative, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's what the corporate community is looking for too, I think. Of course. Of course. Sure. Give us a plan and then let's get out and sell it. Which Let's get everybody on board. Okay, what's your fundraising What's your fundraising goal for next year? Is that public knowledge yet? Should it be? Give us a scoop, Tom.
[00:50:44] Speaker 11: The budget number is about $950,000 between individuals, corporations, foundations and uh and special events, things like the symphony fund run. Um, fundraising. So basically a million dollars is what we're looking for. Yes. Mhm. Okay. We have a caller from Waikiki. Good morning, Bob.
[00:51:02] Speaker 1: Hello. Uh I just would like to end on a positive note, to say I'm one of the people in Honolulu who really loves live music as well as uh having a large CD collection. And uh, I think there are a lot of us out here who are completely untapped by the fundraising of the the Honolulu Symphony Society and um if uh we could get behind a plan like that proposed by Mr. Becker's and have a year of the Symphony and uh go all out for corporations as well as for private um donations, I I think it would work. Uh, I'm impressed with the the kinds of um fundraising that other arts organizations do, like the the Academy of Arts for example. And look at how well the the Honolulu uh Opera theater does. Okay. Bob, we we've got to wrap we've got to wrap this up. Um I appreciate your call.
[00:51:49] Speaker 11: Thank you. Thank you. Um, just to remind listeners, uh what we're talking about is the Symphony. There are two organizations, the Honolulu Symphony Society which is 90 years old. It hasn't been making any music because the musicians for the last year or so have been playing under a new organization called the Hawaii Symphony Orchestra. We have in our studio the executive director of the Hawaii Symphony Orchestra, Tom Bennett, and then we also have uh Betsy Chapman who was on the Hawaii Symphony Society's board for about 20 years. Also Jim Becker who is a retired journalist who wrote a an article on the symphony in this morning's advertiser on page B3. Well, we just have about three minutes left to say whatever hasn't yet been said. Um and I want to start with um Lynn Johnson who's on the phone. She's chair of the board of the older organization, the Symphony Society. Lynn, you've got about 30 seconds to tell us what what has to be said that hasn't been said and then I'm going to give the same opportunity to each of the three people in the studio.
[00:53:00] Speaker 7: Well gosh, that's a that's difficult. But I I think that uh I think I guess what I want to say is that it's it's not easy to fund a major symphony orchestra. Um but I think we have to try. And uh we all have to work together.
[00:53:06] Speaker 11: Okay. And and good luck with the merger talks. Thank you, Lynn. Um, Tom Bennett, you've got 30 seconds, use them wisely.
[00:53:17] Tom Bennett: I guess my only reaction [unintelligible — audio glitch] the skepticism that that Lynn's voice uh and Betsy yours yours, you know, well, it's so hard to raise money. It's so hard to do this. Um one of And hey, I can I can vouch for that. I've been trying. It not, seriously. I've the scar. There's just realist. There is so much more competition for for contributions out there now than just 5 years ago. It's absolutely amazing, absolutely amazing. I'm sorry to interrupt it, Tom. I'll give you another 30 seconds. We'll start your Yes, it is but it doesn't stop us from from trying. And and that's right. One comment directly with with the merger. I think some people uh are are sitting and making well, why haven't the two sides gotten together yet? And I think that can relate to to the whole discussion today. Uh, the only time a merger is going to make sense is when everybody is fully supportive of it. And that's when everybody is going to be positive, and it's so much easier to raise money if both sides completely agree with it. Yes, this is a doable plan. Yes, we agree with this, even though the state is cutting back some of their money, the the these other smaller portions of the budget make it it makes sense. And and that's that's the goal to have the positive things happening.
[00:54:26] Speaker 11: As as Nike Nike would say it, just do it, right? Just do it. Okay. Betsy Chapman.
[00:54:31] Betsy Chapman: No, I agree with Tom, and and there is a certain amount of um of cynicism that comes with having um been in the business a long time as I have, because it's I like to say it's just realism. And this certainly can be done. It absolutely can be done. You can raise a million dollars in this community. We can all do this. This is not a goal that it's out of that's out of reach. It must be done. I am wholeheartedly behind you. I will put my money where my mouth is. Actually, I did last week, and I will continue to do so. I just would like to to speak to all the people who have known me through my work in the symphony. I wish that we could all put a lot of the angst that we have carried aside and start over again in a positive way. Give as much as you can. If you cannot give as much as you did before, that's perfectly all right. We'll take anything that you care to give us, but please, let's turn the whole thing around this year and do what Jim wants us to do, the year of the Symphony.
[00:55:23] Speaker 11: Jim Becker, you started this with your uh article in the paper this morning. Uh you've got 15 seconds.
[00:55:29] Jim Becker: Bravo Betsy, as more soldiers to say the future lies ahead. If we can summon the civic will, if Tom can give us a solid plan, we can do it. It's not only good for the for the arts, it's good for the it's good for business.
[00:55:42] Speaker 11: Okay. Well, I want to thank my guests in the studio, Jim Becker, Betsy Chapman and Tom Bennett. Also, we've had Lynn Johnson by phone and and uh Sam Lee and Jim Mofet and a number of people who are very much involved in in the symphony here in Hawaii. Uh our show next week is going to be on something that goes to the core of democracy, the people's right to know. We're going to call it Access to Information. I think you're going to find it a very, very interesting show. Our producer is Susie Roth, our associate producers are Cassie Roth and Aaliyah Yap, the KHPR director of operations is Jeff Bilarity. Tonight, you can listen to this program again on KHFO 1380AM. You've been listening to the Price of Oh, and Walter Roth too. Walter Roth. Thanks a lot for listening. Aloha.
[01:00:00] Speaker 11: not a philantropic gift, giving
[01:00:00] [music outro 47 s]