Evaluating and Advising Governor Cayetano
Price of Paradise · Hawaii Public Radio · aired 1995-11-19
Guests: Jerry Burris (Editorial Page Editor, The Honolulu Advertiser)
Duration: 1:09:22

[00:00:02] Randall Roth: Aloha, this is Randy Roth, host of Pop Radio. We're broadcast live each Sunday morning at 8:00 on KHPR 88.1 FM and KKUA 90.7 FM. And then rebroadcast each Sunday evening at 8:00 on KIFO 1380 AM. Pop is an acronym for Price of Paradise, and that's the name of two best-selling books about challenges facing the people of Hawaii. Our goal then and now is to generate lively and informed public dialogue. We see that as an an essential ingredient of a healthy community. Everyone who brings Pop Radio to you is a volunteer, and our airtime, which is our only expense, is paid for by the Hawaii Community Foundation. Today's topic has to do with Governor Cayetano, who was elected almost exactly one year ago today. We tried for months to get the Governor himself to come on Pop Radio to talk about his first year in office and his plans for the next three, but those efforts failed.

[00:01:01] Randall Roth: So today's format might be described as Plan B. Rather than hear from the Governor himself, we will listen to as many voices as possible, evaluating the Governor's first year in office and offering advice for the remaining three years of his term. With me in the studio to help make sense out of what probably will be widely divergent opinions and suggestions is Jerry Burris, the editorial page editor of the Honolulu Advertiser. Good morning, Jerry.

[00:01:26] Jerry Burris: Good morning.

[00:01:28] Randall Roth: Jerry, I I really don't get it. Um why wouldn't the Governor embrace an opportunity to to come on a show like this and um talk to the people, explain what it is that's been guiding him and dealing with this budget crisis and what it is that he thinks he can realistically do over the next three years given the budget situation?

[00:01:49] Jerry Burris: It's sort of a mystery, but if you think about it, um practically the Governor's only kind of large-scale meeting with the general public on what he's doing and what he's thinking was this event he had up at the university, where he sat and talked to the students and faculty for a couple of hours, which is really productive, I thought, and I thought he handled it really well. But I think his basic thinking at this point is is uh to to get into discussion of where he's going and where he's headed and what his thinking is is he's going to have to become across as as the no governor, the governor who's his thinking is, this is what I'm going to get rid of, this is what I'm going to shrink, this is what I'm going to cut back. And what kind of pleasure is there in talking to people about that?

[00:02:25] Jerry Burris: And contrasted to John Waihee during his first years, who got to be the yes governor, he would have loved to go on a show like this and say, that problem, yes, we'll take care of it, we have money for that. We can spend on this, we can spend on that. And and Cayetano is facing the exact opposite circumstances. And I think he's just reluctant to get into something that's sort of a a lose-lose proposition for him in terms of his public image and public persona. It's a tough thing to be in. I think he could handle it. I'm surprised that he isn't doing it, but I think that may be part of his thinking.

[00:02:52] Randall Roth: Well, the welcome mat is always out. And so we'll hope that we hear from him soon. Um, we're going to be listening to a lot of people, a lot of voices talking to us about what they think of the last year and and what advice they would give the Governor over the next three years. And to more or less prime that pump, we've lined up a a number of people, and we're going to go to them first, and then we're going to invite everyone just to to call in. First on the line, we have Paul Brewbaker, who's the chief economist at Bank of Hawaii. Paul, are you there?

[00:03:20] Speaker 1: Yeah, hi.

[00:03:21] Randall Roth: Good morning. Paul, real quickly, what's your evaluation of the job the Governor's done uh over the last year and and any advice you might give him for the next three?

[00:03:31] Speaker 1: Well, I think he's done a pretty good job at dealing with the budget issue, raising it as a concern for us all. The for somebody like me who who looks at the at least the tax revenue data a lot. Uh you know, the issue came a lot earlier than his administration and it was only just the last year that really we entered into a dialogue about how to deal with it.

[00:03:55] Jerry Burris: Yeah, he's Paul, you said this is Jerry Burris here. You said that he raised the budget issue. Do you think he's he's explaining in terms that the general public can understand what the issue is and and what the problems are that he's facing? Or do you think people are still confused about that?

[00:04:08] Speaker 1: Well, I I do think um there is a I I think that we've lacked a clear kind of a vision of how one ties together budget cuts with the program for the future. And that's the kind of thing I'd like to begin to hear enunciated in in coming months.

[00:04:28] Randall Roth: Okay, Paul, sounds good. Thank you very much. We're we're going to keep moving. And next on the line, we have Delores Foley, who is a professor at the University of Hawaii. And Delores has a piece in this morning's advertiser talking about the Pop Accountability Group. Delores, good morning.

[00:04:42] Jerry Burris: Good morning.

[00:04:43] Randall Roth: Uh, tell us real quickly about what's in the paper this morning and then uh anything you'd like to add about the job the Governor's doing.

[00:04:51] Jerry Burris: Okay, well first, what happened was the Pop Accountability Group came out of Pop 94 and took the issues that were brought up at the different different conferences and said, okay, let's look at the promises made there and develop indicators, so that we lay the foundation for more accountability in government.

[00:05:11] Randall Roth: Find out whether or not there was an attempt to fulfill the promises?

[00:05:14] Jerry Burris: Yes, that's right. So we went down and and identified the promises and went back to both the Governor and the mayor and said, were these the promises you made? And they both agreed that those were the promises. And then we've been developing the indicators and doing just and and collecting research on whether they were made.

[00:05:33] Randall Roth: When are you going to have your first uh report ready for public consumption?

[00:05:37] Jerry Burris: The first report will be ready by mid-December.

[00:05:41] Randall Roth: Can you give us a preview?

[00:05:43] Jerry Burris: Well, um I can't give specifics because we're still trying to to to, you know, balance the information that's coming in, and a lot of the information hasn't come in from either the the mayor or the Governor. And it's and it's uh been very it's difficult on a number of things on the Governor's side because as he says, most of these dealt with increased fund many of the promises dealt with increased funding, which he didn't know about the fiscal crisis that was coming. But a number of them didn't do with funding. So they have to do with efficiency and restructuring government. And it seems that a number of those that have been started, so he is talking about cutting back government. One of the things that many of us don't see is when he talks about strategic plans and all of that, there may be one as as Jerry was saying, that in terms of articulating a vision I don't see that in terms of a number of the promises. That doesn't mean it's there but we don't see that it's been articulated and we haven't seen some evidence of that. Okay.

[00:06:46] Randall Roth: Delores, thank you. We really appreciate your sharing your time with us this morning. Oh, as I understand it, you're out at the University of Hawaii? Yes. Today, what's going on, you've got 10 seconds to give them a plug.

[00:06:56] Jerry Burris: Okay. Uh Sunday at uh Manoa is uh going to be the uh Colleges of Arts and Sciences will have um it's called Magic and Mystery and all kinds of uh the different departments all around, there will be demonstrating different things that go on at the university and there will be music and ethnic food and prizes and all kinds of things.

[00:07:15] Randall Roth: And the public is invited?

[00:07:16] Jerry Burris: Public is is invited and there's free parking on the campus and they should come.

[00:07:20] Randall Roth: Okay, I'll see you out there. Thank you.

[00:07:21] Jerry Burris: Bye bye.

[00:07:22] Randall Roth: Next on the line is Karen Knudsen, who uh is in charge of communications at the East West Center and also is a member of the Board of Education. Good morning, Karen.

[00:07:30] Speaker 2: Good morning, Randy.

[00:07:31] Randall Roth: Any thoughts about the job the Governor's done over the last year and any advice you might want to give him for the next three?

[00:07:37] Speaker 2: Sure. Um, I think that there has there's no doubt in my mind of the Governor's commitment to education in particular, and I'm going to kind of limit my thoughts to education. But when he took office it was immediately a crisis situation. So I think it's really easy for us to or for me to be um a little bit uneasy with the situation, but knowing that right now we have no choice. The goal the board has and the Department of Education, I think, is to try to come up with certain areas we can cut, we can downsize without really having the impact on education. And uh it's really tough for us.

[00:08:09] Randall Roth: Okay. Uh any anything else?

[00:08:12] Speaker 2: Well, just to to again, be sure that the Governor can again look into the future and knowing that there are certain areas that it's going to be very difficult to try to cut back and knowing that we're all trying to pull together. But I do think if he does articulate the vision of what he wants to see the state become, he can pull us all together. He has to exert a leadership role right now that's a tough situation, but we're all looking for a leader to guide us through this.

[00:08:35] Randall Roth: Okay, thank you, Karen.

[00:08:37] Jerry Burris: Jerry, so far there there is a thread I think, and I see you taking some notes.

[00:08:41] Randall Roth: I I been writing these things down. I've heard people say where is the strategic plan, where is the vision, where is the uh assertion of leadership, uh where is the look to the future. You get this theme here that people are desperate for someone, the Governor in particular to say, not only this is what I'm doing, but this is the reason I'm doing it and please come along with me.

[00:08:57] Jerry Burris: I I hear people really hungry for that.

[00:08:59] Randall Roth: It was interesting to me too that in this morning's advertiser, we have what we call the Malcolm Makai pieces, and we had some Pop volunteers that we sorted into to two groups. Actually, they sorted themselves. We said, check off this first box if you have a a fundamental distrust of government's ability to solve societal problems. Those were the Malcolms. We said, check off this box if you share a a fundamental distrust of big business and the free enterprise system. And those were the Makais. There were a number of people who wanted to check off both boxes or or neither box and we told them well on next month, we'll talk to you. But it's interesting when these two very different groups uh sat down separate from one another and talked about what advice they would give to the Governor. Uh there was some overlap. And one of the things that they both felt strongly about was the need for a clarity of purpose. The need to to clearly communicate to the public just what the Governor thinks government can do, should do, and how it's going to be done. Uh and that I think ties in with what we've been hearing so far.

[00:09:56] Jerry Burris: Absolutely. That's um this this this need for leadership is is really clear. I mean, it's really come through in the last year or so where people are willing to accept hard times and they're willing to accept some difficulty imposed on them by government, but they want to know why it's happening. They want to they want to have a sense that that they understand it and they can either get behind it or not. And uh they need something. They need an edge as you said that to get on and and work on where the other against. I don't think they feel they have that yet.

[00:10:20] Randall Roth: Okay. Well, we've got a couple more people that we have lined up ahead of time that we're going to talk to in just a moment, but I want to let you know that you're listening to Pop Radio. My name is Randy Roth and I'm here in the studio with Jerry Burris, the Honolulu Advertisers editorial page editor. We're listening as callers evaluate Governor Cayetano's first year in office and offer advice for the next three. We're especially interested in the thoughts of people who are not active politically and who have never called in on this show or any show before. So if there's some folks like that out there, we're especially interested in hearing from you. But we'd like to hear from anyone and everyone who would feel free in giving us a call at 955-8821. Neighbor islanders are always invited to call us collect. The number again is 955-8821.

[00:11:05] Randall Roth: All you do is give your first name and the area of the state where you reside. We put you uh on hold and and pretty soon you're you're talking to us. A lot of times, we encourage people to not only say something but to elaborate. Today, we're we're trying to get a lot of voices and we know that each of us has a bias, each of us has a a pet issue, and so rather than than spending time with any one caller and really getting into that issue or or whatever in detail, we want to keep it moving. And so, please think ahead of time about the point you want to make, the evaluation of the last year and the advice for the next three years, so that we can keep it all moving.

[00:11:43] Randall Roth: Next on the line, we have Sam Slom, who is the head of Small Business Hawaii, an association of, I think, about 4,000 small business owners here in Hawaii. Sam, good morning.

[00:11:52] Speaker 3: Good morning Randy, good morning, Jerry. Well, I unfortunately can't give a thumbs up to the Governor for the past year based on uh kind of what Delores was talking about, accountability for actions and promises. Uh this was the governor that campaigned on the theme of change and also saying that he was the only candidate who could bring people together the table, particularly about workers comp and in uh reforming the business climate. And all we've seen is that nobody's come to the table and the business climate has continued to worsen here as we continue to lead the nation in rate of increase of bankruptcies and people that are closing down and people that are leaving here.

[00:12:25] Randall Roth: What advice would you give him for the next three years, Sam?

[00:12:28] Speaker 3: Well, I would say that first of all the change is imminent. Uh we have to look more towards privatization of services. Government cannot do all things and for those people in your Makai group that said business and the wealthy must give more, uh they're missing the point because small business has no more to give. They've given everything they can in taxes and mandates. And uh we have to have a a hospitable business climate and you have to have leadership to get that. We see it in Texas, we see it in Wisconsin, we see it in Massachusetts. Our Governor can do it too, if he's not afraid to come on radio programs and not afraid to say what his vision and his program really is, and then stick to it.

[00:13:02] Randall Roth: Sam, thank you very much. It sounds like you're a Malca.

[00:13:05] Speaker 3: Uh no, I think I'm a cocohit.

[00:13:09] Randall Roth: Thank you, Sam. Uh you know and in in suggesting that Sam is a a Malca, uh I would point out that on page three of the focus section this morning, you not only have the thoughts of our so-called Malcas and Makais, but the advertiser has uh suggested that you can call either of two lines. If you think of yourself as a Malca, they give you one number. If you think of yourself as a Makai, they give you another number. And they're trying to get as many folks involved in this uh process as as possible. I think it's called civic engagement and it's what Pop is all about. Well let's move on to John from Makiki. Good morning, John.

[00:14:03] Speaker 4: Good morning.

[00:14:05] Randall Roth: What do you have in the way of an evaluation of the job the Governor's done thus far and any advice for the next three years?

[00:14:10] Speaker 4: Well, I I think he's lost his progressive intestinal fortitude. Um, I remember Ben campaigning before for beefing up UH, giving teachers telephones for example, um protecting the environment, uh protecting the safety net for the poor, but now he seems consumed in being reactive to the budget and not proactive to helping improve the state of Hawaii. So I guess my advice is to get back to his progressive instincts and uh give up the ideas of chipping away at UH, um doing something to help uh elementary and secondary teachers and uh get rid of this ridiculous idea of putting Mickey Mouse and Diamond Head.

[00:14:32] Randall Roth: Okay. Thank you. Let me let me ask a quick question there is uh, I I sort of agree with you he's consumed with what dealing with the budget cuts, but if there is no money, what what can he do? I mean, let's let's take him at his word that he doesn't have any money. So what can he do?

[00:14:55] Speaker 4: Well, uh you know when when he says he doesn't have any money, part of it is is the reduction in federal taxes and and redex reduction in federal money. And um if the federal government in the Republicans in Washington are going to give a tax break to rich people, um I think that uh they've given them a big tax cut to rich people in the 80s. It's time to take some of that back and make them pay their fair share. So I think in some cases, a tax tax increase is is what we need. I also work for the Department of Education and I know there are areas in state government that can be cut. Uh-huh. Um that are not, and there are other areas, um I see a large number of good teachers leaving um because they're not getting the kind of salaries that they can get in the mainland.

[00:15:37] Randall Roth: Okay, good. Thank you, John. Really appreciate your call.

[00:15:43] Jerry Burris: You know Jerry, it's interesting to me, John and and I'm sure this isn't an accurate label, but you know in my simple mind, I think of John as a a Makai. Uh somebody who who thinks generally the government has a lot of responsibility and it's maybe some people would call him a Democrat or a liberal or or what have you. And right now, um they're a group often times are are more critical I think of what Governor Cayetano is doing right now as opposed to what I'll call the other side that the Malcas, the conservatives, etcetera who are saying, well, you know, he's got to cut and he's out there cutting, etcetera. Kind of an odd situation, isn't it?

[00:16:20] Randall Roth: It is in a way that that the people uh what you might call the typical Cayetano sort of person is is really more critical, and maybe it's maybe it's dashed hopes in a way. I mean, uh he came in, I think people thinking with a real strong kind of basic liberal ideology, and and uh a guy who does believe that that government can do some good, and then, but he he inherited what he discovered was no government or no money to fuel the government. And so people are very disappointed in him. What what are his personal beliefs uh in in our Malca piece in the paper this morning, uh there was a a statement that Governor Cayetano likes to call himself a fiscal conservative but really he's a a social liberal.

[00:17:05] Jerry Burris: Um, what is he? Is he a Malca, Makai, or how would you describe those guiding principles that that are He's a Sam Slom is a cocohit. He's an Eva, sort of.

[00:17:15] Randall Roth: He's uh, um, years ago, there was a for a while, it was very popular, there's this uh talk about something called neoliberalism. Uh, the new kind of liberals who who are kind of fiscally conservative, but with a real heart of for the little guy and so forth. And I remember years ago I wrote something about that and and Ben Cayetano was very interested in the subject, he wanted to read about it. And I think he thought, uh-huh, here's something that sort of describes how I feel. Not the old-style liberal, not the not the Kennedy Lyndon Johnson liberal, but a new kind of liberal. Spend less money but be concerned about people. Concern about people, and and, uh and, I don't think it's fair to say that that there are some things, we keep saying he has no vision, or we don't understand what his vision is, and there are some things he has said that uh that he should be given credit for.

[00:17:55] Randall Roth: He says in so many words, I'm for education, I'm for the little guy, and I am not very interested in giving help to people who I think can help themselves, and and that kind of shows up in his kind of suspicion of the tourist industry and the HVB and some of these things. So there are some outlines there. Um. Yeah. You know, and I've heard him say, I'm for the little guy a number of times, and I don't understand just what that means. I mean I I understand generally of course. But what does that translate into?

[00:18:24] Jerry Burris: It translates in terms of of government programs into, at least in theory, of of keeping the funding going for for effective welfare programs, and and Head Start programs, and early start and A+ and those kinds of things that that allow the guy who doesn't have much money and doesn't have uh, isn't fully uh able to take care of himself, bring him up sort of level to those people who have more resources.

[00:18:43] Randall Roth: But, but as opposed to what? I I don't seem cutting other programs, in in other words, it would suggest that those programs that don't directly benefit the so-called little guy, that that they would be an endangered species and they better watch out. And and I don't see that happening.

[00:19:00] Jerry Burris: Well, an example is the HVB. I think that The Hawaii Visitors Bureau. Yes, that they feel that that the knives are out for them in terms of Cayetano's interest. I don't think that they see the Governor as being particularly interested in in spending money directly to to support an industry that he sees making quite a bit of money on its own. It's not that he's against tourism or doesn't understand the importance of tourism, but I think he would say, and he won't say it in so many words, and don't please don't believe that I've heard him say this, but hey, that the the hotels and the airlines and the rest of them can take care of themselves. I got to take care of the little guy.

[00:19:28] Randall Roth: You know and and as you know, that's almost word-for-word out of the Makai piece this morning.

[00:19:35] Jerry Burris: That's right.

[00:19:36] Randall Roth: I'd be interesting to know whether the Governor is a Malca or a Makai and and again, that's simplistic but I think it helps us get our arms around this sense of, well, just what guiding principles are are at work here.

[00:19:51] Jerry Burris: He's also, you know, he's he's uh considers himself

[00:19:00] Randall Roth: a truth teller, he, uh, and that may be part of the problem when everyone's demanding this vision is, is he's not that interested in in spreading a lot of rhetoric around. Uh, he kind of says what he feels and says what he thinks right off the bat and, and I think in his gut, uh, it's difficult for him to put out the soft soap, you know, that make people feel good. It's just not his style. Mhm, mhm. Well, you're listening to pop radio and we're talking about the governor's first year in office and any advice that you might have for the next three. Uh, we've been talking to a number of people and we recognize that each of us individually has our own bias and and pet issue. And so, rather than spending a lot of time with any one caller, we're trying to to keep moving.

[00:19:41] Randall Roth: We really would like to hear from you and uh, once you call, just be thinking about what it is at the bottom line you'd like to say about the last year and and the next three to come. Our phone number is 955-8821. And as always, neighbor Islanders are invited to call collect. Well, we have on the line Roy Tagumi, who's a member of the House of Representatives. And, uh, Roy, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm told you're one of those young Turks.

[00:20:06] Speaker 5: Um, maybe young turkeys more like. I don't know.

[00:20:10] Randall Roth: Well, I'm not sure. I keep hearing this term, young Turk and I'm not sure what it means. But I, I think it means that there are a lot of folks at the legislature that think that you and and some other people who are fairly new to the legislature are are bright, hard working and and maybe a little more independent than what leadership would prefer.

[00:20:25] Speaker 5: See, I don't know how accurate that is. I'll tell my mom not to keep calling, anyway. You want to talk about the governor.

[00:20:31] Randall Roth: You bet.

[00:20:32] Speaker 5: Um, I think the governor is the right person for the job that needs to get done at the at the present. Um, I think everybody knows he's a tough kind of administrator and not not afraid to make tough decisions. But I, if there's one criticism I have of his administration is that he has not been able to kind of communicate how all of his decisions fit together in a plan or an overall scheme of how he wants this state to go. And I think part of the difficulty is that by nature, the governor is a results-oriented type of person. I think we've seen that in his legislative career also. So no one has ever accused of being warm and fuzzy. He is much more comfortable dealing with the substance of an issue rather than how to sell it or put a spin on it.

[00:21:13] Speaker 5: But the role of a chief executive is to give us a sense of a collective vision of where we're headed and then to inspire us to achieve that vision.

[00:21:20] Randall Roth: So that'd be your advice.

[00:21:21] Speaker 5: Um, yeah. And he, I'm not saying we should sugarcoat our problems. They're real, obviously, but neither should the message be all doom and gloom because as you well know, in politics, perception can become reality.

[00:21:30] Randall Roth: It's interesting. Our our group, uh, in in their column in this morning's paper, uh, they suggested that that Ben Cayetano is, uh, as they put it, a demand. The the the person who is best positioned to do what has to be done right now, uh, for a variety of reasons and, and for, for other reasons I'm hearing you suggest, uh, he is the guy for the job right now.

[00:21:50] Speaker 5: Oh, I, you know, I voted for him and I continue to support him. But again, to instill hope and optimism, um, that things can and will get better, I think, um, the administration needs to do a better job and and I should also say the legislature. We can also do a better job in that, too.

[00:22:03] Randall Roth: Sounds good. Okay. Thanks a lot.

[00:22:05] Speaker 5: Okay. Bye-bye.

[00:22:06] Randall Roth: Jerry, any any thoughts about what you were just hearing from uh, Roy Tagumi? Well, I've added two more to my list, uh, communicate how all these decisions fit into a plan and and, uh, come up with a sense of collective vision. They we keep going back to this theme that there's stuff happening, maybe the right stuff happening, but how does it fit together? I'm wondering how many times, how many different ways the same thing can be said. Okay, let's go to Herb and Kailua. Good morning, Herb.

[00:22:27] Speaker 6: Good morning.

[00:22:29] Randall Roth: What do you have for us?

[00:22:29] Speaker 6: Well, I have uh, one thing that I think is uh, important to me and to most people and whether you're Malca or Makai, everybody who uh, is in office or in plans to do something should have a vision and goals set, write them down and tell how he intends to measure the success.

[00:22:47] Randall Roth: And you don't think the governor has done that yet?

[00:22:49] Speaker 6: No, I don't think that it is written down uh, and put out to the public so they can see it and then they'll know what the results are going to be.

[00:22:56] Randall Roth: Okay. Well, Jerry Burr has just uh, added your way of saying that to the the growing list that uh, that he's created. I really appreciate your call, Herb. Uh, we have Ray from uh, Hanalei. Good morning, Ray.

[00:23:07] Speaker 7: Good morning.

[00:23:08] Randall Roth: What do you have for us?

[00:23:09] Speaker 7: Good morning.

[00:23:10] Randall Roth: What, uh, what do you think of the job the governor's been doing or any advice for the next three years?

[00:23:15] Speaker 7: Okay. Well, I think he's he's done the best he can. Uh, he inherited this uh, uh fiscal problem, but I think that uh, he has not uh, uh tapped one important source of income, and that is uh, from the military. See, the military uh, has huge holdings on the island uh, which they pay no no property taxes. In other places, uh, uh, cities uh, get a uh, what amounts to an impact uh, a fee from the military, and I think the governor should tap that. The military is not going to go away.

[00:23:46] Randall Roth: Okay, Ray. Ray, what you what I think you're suggesting is that he try to figure out some way to get an impact fee from the military.

[00:23:52] Speaker 7: Right.

[00:23:53] Randall Roth: Okay, I appreciate. We're going to keep moving just because that's the way we've designed this program. But I really appreciate your call. Jerry Bores, what do you think? You know, I I've just just something struck me here as we were listening to all these demands for vision and plans and everything and and I'm harkening back to the administration one before the previous one of the George Ariyoshi, whose uh, administration was absolutely suffused with vision and functional plans and plans and and uh, if anything, it was an overplan administration, where if you wanted to know what the state government thought about anything from uh, from big things like education to to small things like uh, the Hanalulu waterfront, or what they will do to expand the airport, there was a piece of paper that said, here's what we're going to do in 5, 10, 20 years. It was it was it was totally planned and totally visionary, and of course, a lot of it never happened. So I think that for all of our demands for vision, we have to realize that that isn't a substitute for decisions and a substitute for action.

[00:24:44] Randall Roth: And I think maybe uh, the current governor might say, look, I can I can give you all the visions you want, but uh, I got work to do here. Those were formative years for him in the legislature and maybe he's a little cynical about uh, all of these visions and plans that are put to writing and then nothing is done. It was I remember this is this was striking. We were talking to a group of tourism people and about the future of tourism, and they were saying, you know, we don't know what the current governor's vision is for tourism, the same word again, vision. And they said, you know, when Ariyoshi was in office, we knew what his vision was. Most of us didn't like it, but at least we knew what it was and we could react to it. So, I guess there's, you know, at least it gives you a fighting point.

[00:25:21] Randall Roth: Well, and maybe you've just given us one possible explanation as to why he's avoiding uh, giving that. Let's go to Paul in Aiea. Good morning, Paul.

[00:25:29] Speaker 8: Paul, are you there in Aiea?

[00:25:31] Speaker 9: Yes. Good morning.

[00:25:32] Randall Roth: Good morning.

[00:25:33] Speaker 9: I would like to say that uh, I enjoyed the governor's harangue against the University of Hawaii students. I think that showed his true personality and leadership and it uh, dovetailed right in with his education, education, education campaign theme. But I would uh, I would ask him to go back to his legislative roots, and I think he gets some sympathy with the 104th and 105th Congress in uh, getting rid of the advertiser and the Star Bulletin's joint operating agreement.

[00:25:59] Randall Roth: Okay. Well, Jerry is taking notes on that one. Yeah, that's good.

[00:26:02] Speaker 9: And uh, the last thing if he needs some ideas for leadership, what he has to do is tune to uh, K108 Radio at 6 o'clock in the morning and 4 o'clock in the afternoon. Frank Fossi's on for 2 hours every weekday.

[00:26:14] Randall Roth: Okay. Um, Paul, let me ask you a question real quickly. You used the word harangue early on which is I I think of as kind of a negative word, but then I got the impression that you really liked what the governor had said to the students. Um, can you real quickly tell me a little bit more about whether you liked what he said to the students?

[00:26:31] Speaker 9: Well, I liked it because he was unable to veil his true personality and his leadership skills, which were.

[00:26:36] Randall Roth: So you're being a little little sarcastic when uh, when That's right. It was a it was a harangue. And I think it'll be used in political ads. I really hope it is. Uh, we didn't see it. It wasn't written about accurately in the advertiser, by the way. They didn't curse at him and they didn't use invective. Okay, well we're going to hold, uh, Jerry Bores's feet to the fire right now and find out why. Thank you, Paul. Appreciate your call. Jerry, any thoughts on that? I well, I tell you there were two rallies and two governors speaking to two different rallies because uh, I was there and I tell you, what I saw is completely different than what 80% of what I've been reading about.

[00:27:06] Randall Roth: Well, I get letters every day and one letter will say, I was scandalized by the way the students uh, treated this poor governor and then the next letter will come and it says, we can't understand why the governor was so rude and aggressive and abusive to these students. And I wasn't there unfortunately, so I don't know but I see it's like that. You know, it says just two different complete views of what happened. It must be a Rorschach test because honest to goodness, I was there and it just doesn't match at all with, again, 80% of what I'm reading. Interesting. Um, what about the joint operating agreement? No, that's another topic and we are going to have that topic sometime in the next few few months. We want to talk about newspapers and whether they're doing as bad a job as as a few of your critics uh, have been saying.

[00:27:44] Randall Roth: He he he said a name there though that that probably is apropo to the conversation, Frank Fossi and there was one thing that he was able to do and is able to do is is be real clear about what he stands for and what he's thinking. You know, I really like that about uh, that's that's something that that that he's a master at and I think that there's some yearning for a little of that. Okay. Well, let's go to Ray on the Big Island. Good morning, Ray.

[00:28:06] Speaker 7: Good morning.

[00:28:20] Randall Roth: this is a sign of the times. It was a lot easier for me to find Malkas, people who are distrustful of government's ability to really solve these problems than it was Ray on the Big Island. Good morning. Okay. Well, let's go to Ray on the Big Island. thing for a little of that. Okay. Well on the Big Island. Good morning. that there's some yearning for a little of that. Well, let's go to Ray on Hawaii, I feel the places like uh, Hamakua, the number of uh, the number of uh, measures are needed which have to be integrated, such as uh, uh trying to increase the capacity building training aspect uh, which uh, state has been uh doing. I think the second, I think it's very important to uh, attract uh, new business by uh providing a better type of uh, uh incentives such as uh, uh enterprise zone, modified the enterprise zone. Third, I I really feel the the the the kind of uh, community-based economic development they doing is quite good, but they have to be integrated. Finally, they need a leading sector. Leading sector. There, uh, we are think thinking of a number of things uh, in consultation with the University of Hawaii. We are thinking of shifting uh, some portion of the College of uh uh Tropical Agriculture to the to the Hilo campus. That's where we have the largest uh, agricultural land. That's where we have the largest number of uh uh agricultural workers and I feel that that these are the kind of things we have to do.

[00:32:14] Randall Roth: Let me get a reaction to that from from David McClain. Um, I realize that that we've got economists in the room and, you know, economists have a certain perspective on things. Sage G being the director of DBED, has to be concerned about the political aspect of all of this. As I'm sitting here, I'm wondering to to target specific areas like the Hama coast on the Big Island or or what have you. Uh, David, is that the sort of thing that you were a bit critical of in your piece as opposed to just focusing on fundamentals that would affect people across the state?

[00:32:48] Speaker 10: Uh, yes Randy, it was. Um, the inform information that's available about the effectiveness of specialized tax incentives or enterprise zones is is really not very encouraging. Uh, South Carolina uh, to get its BMW plant offered a tax package that cost it $80,000 per job generated. Uh, in Alabama, a Mercedes-Benz walked away with a $250 million package costing $175,000 per job generated. Enterprise zones are in in in place in about 40 states in in the country but with very mixed success. And in one of the the best studied examples in Indiana, um, Professor Jim Papky of Purdue and Leslie Papky of Michigan State and by the way, I'm grateful to Jack Siderhow for this information also at the College of Business, they concluded that 80% of the direct direct budgetary cost of the Indiana enterprise zone program, essentially reflected a windfall for the businesses involved, uh, rather than any uh, any effective uh, subsidy to uh, increased economic activity. It's it's really very hard to pick winners here. And so uh, as a result, you're much better off to get the tax rates low, to get the base broad, to deregulate the environment, to make it the regulation more efficient, to get government out of the businesses that it shouldn't be in and have it focus on what it should be doing, which is policy, advice, and a social safety net. Mhm. Get those basics right and and you'll be uh, the best you can be.

[00:34:13] Randall Roth: So we have a a healthy difference of a of opinion here, Paul. Uh, you made reference to the the pick the winner mentality. Um, a few comments on that and then we'll move on to another caller.

[00:34:23] Speaker 9: Yeah, I think we have to be careful about how we think about uh, implementing pick the winner strategies. For instance, I I would have to uh, I tend to disagree with the idea that the Tropic Ag school needs to be moved to Hilo. I Nothing prevents UH Hilo's undergraduate Ag Ad Education and and Extension programs from improving, but I I don't think we should undermine what is uh uh a program at Manoa with an international stature. And uh, and um, you know, agriculture definitely has its place on the Big Island. I'd say Agroforestry is probably something we're going to see in the future. Um, I think for both the Big Island and Kauai, we need to think uh more in terms of uh, tourism strategy.

[00:35:02] Randall Roth: you have for this morning? Well, I'm calling because I I don't really have anything to say particularly about Cayetano, but I feel that as a society at large, particularly here in Hawaii, but in the whole country at large, that people tend to put too much emphasis on the government to solve their problems. Okay. I I see I see no way that that uh Cayetano can solve the educational problem for instance. Have you had an opportunity to read the the Malca piece, piece or the the Malca column in the paper this morning? No, I haven't. I would encourage you to to read that and the Mackay piece as well, and then maybe call either the Malca line or the Mackay line and share your thoughts uh, with the advertiser, they're going to do a a follow up story. But when we were forming these two groups, uh, and I think Jerry Bures and and Ray, I think this is a sign of the times, it was a lot easier for me to find Malcas, people who are distrustful of government's ability to really solve these problems than it was to find Mackay's.

[00:35:56] Randall Roth: Well, I I don't I'm not distrustful of it, but I just think that every individual, every family, every community has specific needs, and when we looked for one person or one administration, which changes all the time to have answers, we're just looking in the wrong place. Yeah. Okay. It's like expecting big daddy to take care of things for us. Yeah, like our parents. We just transferred our needs to our parents as children, onto the government as it. Yeah. We're not going to find it. Okay. Ray, I appreciate uh, your thoughts and and I just listening to Ray, convinced me instead of saying distrust, I should have used a a different word like I'm skeptical of government's ability or whatever. Yeah. Just the wrong place.

[00:36:28] Randall Roth: Well you you you learn. I thank you Ray. Thank you. Let's move on. Another caller from the Big Island, Sharon. Good morning, Sharon.

[00:36:36] Speaker 11: Hi. Uh, the Big Island now has four new power plants that are being brooted about and people trying to get permits for them. The Big Island of course has the volcano fumes and is headed for being the development frontier of the island.

[00:36:55] Randall Roth: Okay. Sharon, you're going to have to, to very quickly get to your point in terms of the job the governor is doing and any advice for the next three years.

[00:37:00] Speaker 11: the point is that there is no noticeable leadership from the government towards sustainable energy development on the Big Island.

[00:37:08] Randall Roth: Okay. And we are heading that the first that was the preparation for that and we are heading therefore, for putting in low technology, polluting technology and unsustainable when we could be building towards something else. And I'd like to see more leadership from him on that. Okay. Thank you very much, and I I'm sorry to keep interrupting you, but we kind of have our ground rules here and so I'm trying to stick to it, but I really appreciate your thoughts. You're listening to pop radio. I have with me in the studio, Jerry Bures, who is the editorial page editor for the Honolulu advertiser and we are asking callers to very briefly tell us what they think of the governor's first year in office and to offer any suggestions that they might have to the governor for the next three years. Our phone number is 955-8821. We have some lines open and we would love to hear from uh, from

[00:38:00] Randall Roth: you. So the number again is 955-8821. We have on the line Melissa from Manoa. Good morning, Melissa.

[00:38:07] Speaker 12: Good morning. Um in talking about uh what programs to cut and what programs to keep, I the one thing I have noticed as a voter and citizen who understands the needs of the people who cannot help themselves is that citizens have a say about solving their needs when it they have recourse to government to do that for them. If, however, they have to look to um go begging for money from big business, they are going to it's the businesses that then get to decide what is the priority in society. And since we've been watching big business in other parts of the United States leave town, um I have a little trouble think thinking that they're going to be the wisest ones to make that kind of decision.

[00:38:59] Randall Roth: Okay, Melissa, let me get Jerry Burris's thoughts on that. I just want to make sure I understand you. It sort of you're sort of saying that in dealing with the problems of of poor people or people who need help, that the government is a more collective and and general general burden-sharing way of dealing with it than than letting uh businesses decide arbitrarily who to help and who they won't.

[00:39:18] Speaker 12: Right. Okay.

[00:39:20] Randall Roth: Melissa, thank you. I really appreciate uh your call. You're welcome. We have on the line oh, a couple of people from Maui. Let's go first to Michael on Maui. Good morning, Michael.

[00:39:28] Speaker 13: Yes, good morning. How are you folks doing? Just great. Good. All right. Well, I'll tell you to be direct and to the point. Uh number one, I think Ben has done a pretty good job thus far, but I think he hasn't tapped into a a very good uh faucet of the economy, the state lottery. I think we need to posit think positive on that and not the negative externalities.

[00:39:51] Randall Roth: Okay. And that's my comments. That's wonderful. Thank you, Michael. Appreciate your call. You're welcome. Let's go to Jeff on Maui. Good morning, Jeff.

[00:39:58] Speaker 14: Oh, good morning. Let me uh go a little bit further on the lottery. I think, yeah. Let's uh let's try to follow what the Indians are doing on the mainland on the reservations and hopefully, the Hawaiian people will finally get their act together and clean up Kohala and put casino hotels. And when they build them, the people will come.

[00:40:20] Randall Roth: Okay, thank you, Jeff. Appreciate your call. Jerry Burris, any thoughts uh about what you've been listening to?

[00:40:25] Jerry Burris: Well, on on on the issue of gambling, of course, that's one that people keep going to when they're looking at the fiscal crisis, but if uh if the Hawaiians get gambling, then the money will be for the Hawaiians, rightfully so, so that's not going to solve the state's general problems other than as Hawaiians get money for their own programs. I suppose it relieves some pressure, but I don't see that as a solution to much.

[00:40:44] Randall Roth: Okay. Uh well we have on the line, Mary George, who is uh retired from the state legislature, uh was very much involved in Pat Saiki's campaign for governor a year ago. Good morning, Mary.

[00:40:55] Speaker 15: Good morning. How are you doing today? Jerry, how are you? Good morning. A good, interesting program. I haven't been able to catch all of it, but I like it. Good. Um I'd like to add um a kind of another another note, maybe a sour note from another small perspective. First place, I think most people are Malkas. The reason I say that is that when I make speeches, if I ever use the the classic joke about I'm the I'm from the government and I'm here to help you, everybody sympathizes with it.

[00:41:23] Randall Roth: You know, Mary, I don't know if if you were listening a bit ago when I mentioned informing those groups, I started expecting to have trouble lining up enough Malkas. Here in Hawaii, where we have a reputation for being very Democrat, very liberal, I thought the the Makais would uh would be overwhelming the Malkas. But uh the Malka group formed very quickly. A lot of folks out there, like you're saying, are quite skeptic uh skeptical of government's ability to solve these problems.

[00:41:51] Speaker 15: Almost take it's almost a take for granted situation, but let me uh I know you're trying to hurry things along. Let me get at what I'm disappointed about. You know, I I'm not sure whether or not the governor is aware that there's been a change in Washington and the Santa Claus in the Congress is now a Republican. Um Hawaii, to an extent greater than in most other states, is heavily dependent on federal funding for a lot of programs, a lot of its activities. And yet, the governor, for some reason or another, has been unwilling to invoke help from uh good local Republicans who have um warm long-time ties with the Congress. Our own congressional delegation is virtually cloutless, particularly in the House.

[00:42:34] Randall Roth: Mary, give me an example of of somebody that that has an aloha with the Republicans in Washington D.C. that the governor perhaps could uh lean on and take advantage of? I mean, well, lean on. Some of the people have offered our help. I know, that's a terrible turn.

[00:42:47] Speaker 15: And um Well, he could accept the offer that's been made. Give me an example. Well, I'll I'll use myself because I'm the only one I can speak for. Okay. I I volunteer. I have long time good ties in the Congress with the with the Republicans. When you look at the strident voices that are coming particularly from the from our House members and the delegation, it's perfectly understandable that we're going to come out on the short end of the stick. And and the with the supply of money shrinking, um you know, a a little friendly word can often help. I think the East-West Center is perhaps the best example of a program that desperately needs somebody to help push it along in Washington. It's not going to be from lobbyists and it's not going to be from Democrats.

[00:43:22] Randall Roth: Okay. Mary, thank you very much. Jerry Burris, any thoughts on that?

[00:43:24] Jerry Burris: Well, just I that's very interesting. I think that obviously, one of the the the hang-ups here is is the politics of the situation that that people are not used to to dealing through channels of the other other side, but uh I think if the offer is sincere, the governor would be uh short-sighted not to take it up.

[00:43:39] Randall Roth: Okay. Let's go to uh Bill in Kailua. Bill, good morning.

[00:43:42] Speaker 16: Good morning, Randy. It's it's nice to speak with you. Good. I uh I have two pet thoughts. First of all, I everybody's concerned with immediate problems and I think I think we know should not forget the long range view. Okay. Uh one in particular is the mass transportation thing. I think we should steer clear of the fixed rail thought because that is 19th century technology. And we want to want to look to the future for uh magnetic levitation and I I am a keen admirer of the trackless trolleys that we had here in the early 50s and the early late 30s and they're early 40s.

[00:44:34] Randall Roth: Okay, Bill, we're we're just taking the advice. Oh, I have one more thought. I'm going to sort of that's the end of that. The other thing is is water reclamation. I think we should uh the building continues at pace, high rise and all of this jazz and the the water situation is becoming, obviously becoming critical. Okay. Bill, we've we've got to move on. Okay. We ought to ought to talk about these long range ideas. Okay. I appreciate your call, Bill. I really do. Sorry I have to run. We've got some people on uh on the line and and we want to encourage other people to uh to get in line. Our number is 955-8821 and we'd like to hear from you. We'd like to hear what your evaluation of the governor's first year in office is and any suggestions you have for him for the next three years. And all we ask is to keep is that you keep it real tight so that we can get as many voices on the air as possible this morning.

[00:45:39] Randall Roth: On the line now, we have Jeff Portnoy, uh well-known media attorney. Good morning, Jeff.

[00:45:44] Speaker 17: Morning, Randy, how you doing? What tell people, what is a media attorney? I'm always uh interested in that. Well, I'm not sure. That's not a name I attached to myself. I guess it's somebody who represents the media. It's a nice shorthand expression.

[00:45:58] Randall Roth: Well, I I just wanted to because we we each have our own perspectives on this stuff. Uh you know, you you have been involved in a number of of freedom of information issues, that sort of thing.

[00:46:09] Speaker 17: I have, yes. Okay, what are your thoughts on the job the governor's done? Well, it's obviously a very complicated issue to answer in a minute or or less. But I think uh basically, I think the governor has taken over at a time when the state is in very serious trouble. I think it's in trouble economically, I think it's in trouble philosophically, I think there's a lack of spirit and commitment, there's obviously a lack of funds uh so I think he's inherited a a government in a state that really uh has a lot of problems. My own view is that the the first year he has been uh he's been okay. I mean, I think he's tried to address some of these hard problems and he's he's gotten a lot of bad publicity about it. You know, the university budget problems, uh the layoff of state workers. I think if I had to fault the governor, I think it's really for a for what I think is a lack of of of of vision and leadership and trying to in trying to let people know why he's taking the positions that he is and some of the hard choices that have to be made, but uh you know, he's he's under a lot of pressure and his people are under a lot of pressure and uh I think the next couple of years are going to be much more important than the first year.

[00:47:21] Randall Roth: Okay. Jeff, you mentioned at the beginning of your remarks that you thought the state was in trouble, uh philosophically as well as economic economically in some other ways. What did you mean by philosophically?

[00:47:32] Speaker 17: Well, I I think there's just a lack of and I don't I you know, I think it starts at the top and works its way down. There's sort of a a drifting of of people's feelings about really where the state is going to be. I mean, we have these PR efforts of thumbs up, which some people derive and some people think is great and and I think that's just a reflection of of people being very unconfident, uh pessimistic about about the future of Hawaii, and not just economically. I think there's serious issues uh politically and uh socially, and I I really think and I've been living here for over 20 years. I just think there's a general general uneasiness about where this state uh will be in the 21st century.

[00:48:14] Randall Roth: Yeah, it's interesting. I'm I'm looking at the Makai piece in this morning's paper and this a quote from it is, the governor needs to explain in plain and simple terms what government is supposed to do and then do it.

[00:48:25] Speaker 17: Well, you know, I and I think the big problem has been for for 30 years the government of this state has been all things to all people. There's been an unlimited amount of money. Anybody who needed money uh was able to get it, whether it be social services, whether it be uh nonprofits, and uh when the money ran out, I think there was a tremendous feeling of, oh my god, you know, how do we how do we get all these things we've come to expect? Well, you're not going to get those things in the future. You have to figure out how to live without it.

[00:48:52] Randall Roth: Okay. Jeff, thank you. We're really appreciate you taking the time to talk to us this morning. Take it easy. Bye. Jerry Burrs, you had a column I think two or three, maybe four weeks ago, where you were saying, where did the money go? Um where did it go? How how could we go from what seemed like all the money in the world, billion-dollar surplus, to where now, it just seems to be a given that there just isn't nearly enough to maintain what we've created over the years.

[00:49:18] Jerry Burris: I did that column and I threw out a few answers, and it turned out that I didn't throw out the answers that satisfied everyone because I I got lots more to do on this. But one of the themes that came out of it that I didn't touch on too much is that is as Jeff was just saying, the state was all things for all people, and there was a one boom after another in our economy from statehood, and then the building that went on after that, and then the growth of tourism and the jet age, and then when that started to dwindle a little bit, then we had the Canadians and then we had the Japanese bubble, and so there was one bubble after another, and government kept expanding and taking care of more and more problems. And when the money started to dry up, which actually was maybe four or five years ago when the Japanese bubble died and nothing flowed in to replace it, the state kept the momentum going by kind of borrowing against the future, spending more each year than it was taking in because it had these surpluses, taking money out of uh, creating all kinds of special funds that they were able to do things that that really weren't reflective of the economic realities on a year-to-year basis. So They was hiding the reality of the and maybe not hiding in a cynical way, but still trying to do what it had always done and didn't adjust to the current fact that there wasn't, that the tax revenues were down and the and the growth of the economy had slowed. And so, finally, it just caught up with itself. And I don't think that it was a kind of a cynical, let someone else worry about it attitude on the part of the Waihee administration, but just kind of this built-in belief that that we can continue to do things, that something else will come along, the economy will boom again, and well, it hasn't or it hasn't yet, and they were just caught. They were caught short, and it's as simple as that. I don't think there's uh there's any evil plot at the basis of it.

[00:50:32] Randall Roth: You know, if if I had to sum up real quickly the difference between the Malko and Makai pieces in this morning's paper, I think the Malkos are saying, uh, we built up something that can't be maintained, we've got to bring down the size of government, whereas the Makais seem to be saying, well, there's some things we're doing we shouldn't be doing, but basically, we need to get more government revenue in order to more or less maintain the level that we're at now.

[00:51:13] Jerry Burris: I don't know, I've sort of come to the conclusion that that we have more government than the economy can sustain. And that this is the painful fact of life, and we have to deal with that right now, which is what Cayetano is doing.

[00:51:24] Randall Roth: Okay. Well, let's go to uh Jeff on Maui. Jeff, did we talk to you once before?

[00:51:28] Speaker 14: Yeah. You got you got a different piece of advice to share? Oh, yeah, I just want uh, your friend there, Jerry, is that his name? Anyway, let me just comment on Jerry's comment that uh all the money is going to go to the Hawaiians. Well, people are going to have to stay in hotels here. Um, I think that will bring in money. Uh, maybe Okay, and you're talking about gambling again. Yeah. Maybe I'm wrong, but the money will flow into this state, and by doing so, everything will go down and more people will flow in.

[00:51:58] Randall Roth: Okay. Comment more uh on that lady uh talking about the government, I think the people are finally finding out that the Republicans and Democrats are doing the same thing that we used to do when we had communism as an enemy.

[00:52:12] Speaker 14: Yes, one against the other like a tennis match. Okay, now for water, the water problems, when I was in the hold on a second. You got to get to the bottom line. We have people waiting. I'm making comments, aren't I? Now, that's what Cayetano can do. Here's one that Cayetano can do. For water, we can get it out of the oceans. D-cell. That's right. Right. Good. Okay, Jeff, thank you. We appreciate your call.

[00:52:39] Randall Roth: We have another caller from Maui. We've hit the jackpot this morning, so far as Maui callers are concerned. Bill, good morning.

[00:52:45] Speaker 16: Good morning. Would you like to evaluate the job the governor's been doing and maybe offer some suggestions for the future? Well, the impact is what I'm seeing. I called a mover to move me to uh Hilton Head, and he said I was the seventh family that he'd moved to Hilton Head. Uh, so the people with higher incomes Hilton Head uh in uh South Carolina. Right. Imagine one one mover had moved seven families from Maui. So those people, if you have enough money to move, you're paying higher income taxes in Hawaii, so there's where some of our money is going, people who pay income taxes are moving out of the state.

[00:53:22] Randall Roth: So, what's your suggestion to the governor?

[00:53:24] Speaker 16: Do what he's doing, cut down. Okay, great. Thank you, Bill. We appreciate your call.

[00:53:30] Randall Roth: We have Carolyn from Makakilo. Good morning, Carolyn.

[00:53:33] Speaker 18: Good morning. Um, I thought I was a Malka until I got to the bottom of the of the article and it says, you demand. Well, Ben Cayetano, you ain't demand. And I say that on several issues, in in that if he really was uh cutting government, I would be with him. Uh, especially where it says here in that big script, now is the time to reshape every top heavy bureaucracy, including the DOE. He is not uh cutting the uh the top levels and that's where the problem is.

[00:54:08] Randall Roth: So that's your suggestion is to get out the knife and go after the bureaucracy?

[00:54:12] Speaker 18: Yes, but don't do it like he's been doing it from the bottom up. Don't cut secretaries. It says here something about 100 only 100 jobs have been cut. When he was out at UH, he said something to the effect He got mad uh at the people and said something to the effect that, well, you know, with all these budget cuts, UH system wide hasn't cut one hasn't fired one person. And I thought, wow. So I called up right away to the personnel office and said, is this true? Has he cut? Has there been anyone losing their jobs? And they said, well, yes, and yes, no. Yes, meaning that um they haven't filled positions. They haven't filled positions. Plus, wait a second. No. The Okay. Got to be make it quick, though, Okay. A bigger cut is the people who were on a contract that weren't on full-time paid staff, so that's all he's looking at. And the other thing is he has to be accountable. I've come to the point that I am not either Malka or Makai because I'm right in the middle. I want him to be accountable, and I really don't believe he has been.

[00:55:18] Randall Roth: Okay. So Jerry Burrs thinks too that uh somewhere between Malka and Makai is the right place. Thank you, Carolyn. Really appreciate your thoughts. We have uh Larry from Makiki who's been waiting patiently. Good morning, Larry. Hi, good morning. I'll be quick. Everybody is uh a few people have said that uh Governor Cayetano hasn't got a vision or something. If you read the paper, I noticed one a few weeks ago, it said that the economy was going to be saved by $800 million in public work spending and recently, I hear he wants to fill Diamond Head with an amusement park. The vision seems to be that we're going to save it through development and paving the place over with asphalt and putting up buildings. And if some if people like that vision, great, but that's not my vision of Hawaii.

[00:55:58] Randall Roth: Okay, I'll get Jerry Burrs's thoughts on that. Hang on, Larry. Actually, I think I think you've put your finger on something. I think one of the quote vision things he needs is is he believes, or he's been advised by Sage and some of the people in his administration that that one of the problems with Hawaii's economy is this investment has lagged, that investment has gone down. And uh no economy can be healthy without some continued investment and build up of the capital assets of the place. And so uh uh he's he's bought into that and and he's speeding up construction projects, government construction projects. And also he's starting to hear a lot of talk about the need to pump fresh money into Waikiki. Whether this means new hotels or refurbishing the old hotels, I guess, is still being debated, but I think in the weeks and months to come, listen for a lot of talk about pumping big money into Waikiki one way or the other.

[00:56:43] Randall Roth: Okay. That that's right. There's folks there's folks out here who think that development means quality of life for the people rather than for the developers. So that's all I have to say. Good point. Thank you, Larry. Appreciate your call. We're in the last uh seven or eight minutes. You're listening to Pop Radio. I'm here with Jerry Burrs, the editorial page

[00:57:00] Speaker 19: the Honolulu advertiser, we're listening as callers evaluate the governor's first year in office and offer advice for the next three. Uh, we've got some folks on the line, but we're moving real quickly and so I'm sure we could get to you if you can call right now. Our number is 955-8821. Neighbor Islanders are always invited to call collect. We go to the next caller, Desmond from Kaimuki. Is this Desmond Burn? Right. Good morning. I'll give you a little plug, Desmond on page one of the focus section this morning. There is a really interesting column by Desmond, who is the head of common cause here in Hawaii. Desmond, I know you've got a lot to say. Can you try and pack it into about 30 seconds so that we can keep moving?

[00:57:40] Speaker 20: Briefly, what we're afraid of is that if the economy rebounds a bit, that the governor won't restructure government, will only do what is absolutely necessary to get by. And that's our fear, that this is a golden opportunity. If you're really going to go for it, he should go for it and really restructure it, and not tinker around the edges there.

[00:58:02] Speaker 19: That's what you feel he's been doing. That's a good point, in good times, I guess you're not really going to restructure anything. In bad times, there's there's the possibility that you can get it restructured.

[00:58:11] Speaker 20: They have to overcome the biggest force in the world, and that's the inertia. And government will never do anything unless it absolutely has to in this kind of direction of restructuring. Okay.

[00:58:20] Speaker 19: Well, you've given him a complete list of what he needs to do, so he shouldn't have any problems. Well, we'll see. Thank you, Desmond. We really appreciate your call. We appreciate your hard efforts on behalf of the public. Uh, we go to Lou in Honolulu. Good morning, Lou. Hi. I just want to, um, uh, to comment on where the government is headed.

[00:58:42] Speaker 21: I think it's actually a combination of mauka and makai, and I think the governor is in the right track. For the mauka side, uh, the the government has to worry about big government, and the governor has been decreasing spending, accelerating CIP, and on the makai side, uh, there is a problem of market failure, and, uh, and therefore the governor has to, uh, address the education problem, the neighbor island issue, and therefore there is a need for government. And because of that, the government, uh, has, uh, has been trying to facilitate, uh, the private sector, uh, decrease spending, downsize government, accelerate CIP, and also attract more, uh, business and investment from the Asia-Pacific region. So I think, uh, you cannot just segregate people between mauka or makai, because on the mauka side, uh, there is a need for, uh, uh government. And, and and the the governor has been decreasing spending, downsizing government, government because of the, uh, as you know, the past problem.

[00:59:50] Speaker 19: All very good points. Lou, I really appreciate your sharing that with us. Okay, thank you very much. Thank you. There are some other people in the line, but Jerry Burr, did I notice you No, I I was just agreeing with her in the sense that obviously things don't fall neatly into Malca-Makai, or liberal conservative, or yes or no, but uh. You keep resisting my simplistic divisions of the world, okay? That's right, but uh, but it helps us concentrate our thinking. It's provocative, Jerry, provocative. Okay, we go to Bill from Maku'u. Good morning, Bill. Oh, good morning. Uh, yes, I just want to continue that line of thought.

[01:00:18] Speaker 22: I think it's really hard to divide people between Mauka and Makai. I think we need a very vibrant, um, business sector in Hawaii. We need to do what we can to bolster up our tourism. We do need a smaller government, and yet, at the same time, we need to be very sensitive to people's needs, especially senior citizens.

[01:00:36] Speaker 19: Okay. And that's basically what I have to say. I really appreciate your sharing your thoughts. Oh, okay, have a good day. Thank you. Bye-bye. We move on to Mike from Kailua. Good morning, Mike. Good morning.

[01:00:46] Speaker 23: Um, I just like to refer back to a recent, uh, editorial, Jerry Berris. I think it was last week or the week before in the Sunday paper about the crisis in consumer confidence. And I wonder if, um, the bad news we've been getting from the administration since January has fed this crisis in consumer confidence, which is result of the downturn in spending, which sort of feeds on itself, and whether the lack of a a plan for getting us out of this mess and the open endedness of the whole budget crisis issue is, is sort of feeding on the, on the bad news.

[01:01:18] Speaker 19: Well, let's ask Berris to respond. I I think you're exactly right.

[01:01:21] Speaker 24: I mean, there was, uh, some of the economists were saying that one of the more striking things that affected confidence in in the public here was the fact that the government was saying things are bad. It's sort of a, it's a, it's a terrible Catch-22 where when you announce we're in trouble, people go, whoa, and they put their hands in their pockets and don't spend a dime, and it just snowballs. Uh, so it's a, it's sort of the the opposite of that old Voodoo economics theory that they used that the direct during the Reagan administration, you know, where if you tell people things are getting better, it will. If you tell people things are bad, they'll get worse. So, there there is a a clear element of that in the whole mix of consumer confidence.

[01:01:54] Speaker 19: Here, we've had the the governor more or less with his thumb down telling people that things are really bad, and the business sector with the thumb up saying, no, they're really pretty good, and it's at odds and confusing people.

[01:02:04] Speaker 24: Here's here's a striking thing though. I mean, there's everyone kind of went into shock when they heard that the government was in such bad shape, that they may have to lay off 600 people. Well, in the private sector in the last two or three years, I mean, four times that number have been laid off with barely a ripple in terms of public confidence. The banks and the others have been laying off people, consolidating, downsizing, but it hasn't had this publicity. For some reason, that's when government threatens to do it, that everyone goes into a panic.

[01:02:28] Speaker 19: Why is that? It's kind of psychological, even if you don't work for government, when government's cutting people, then it just seems like Government's the big cheese in Hawaii. I mean, that that is the economy to a lot of people. Okay. Well, we've got time for one more caller. Let's go to Ed from Kailua. Good morning, Ed.

[01:02:42] Speaker 25: Uh yes. My comment and partially a question is that people are not only skeptical of whether government can solve problems, but I think they're skeptical about the credibility of the government, in particular, the governor, seems to be banding about numbers all the way from 350 million to 621 million as to what the shortfall is, and no one really knows what the shortfall really is. And, if you look at the total budget of the state, which is about 6 billion per year, about 3 billion of that is operating budget. There's about $3 billion left, and I think tucked away in that, even if it's 10% of 6 billion, you got $600 million just tucked away there.

[01:03:19] Speaker 25: I think the, the governor is hiding, uh, some of his, uh, projects in there.

[01:03:22] Speaker 19: Okay. Ed, let me let me ask Jerry Berris to respond to that.

[01:03:26] Speaker 24: Uh, I don't think it's quite quite that Machiavellian, although I was trying what I was trying to say earlier about there were all these special funds, these places where money was parked for housing, for fixing up the schools and the rest of that, and that money is slowly coming back into the general fund, which I think is a good thing. The other point to remember is the shortfall, a shortfall in expected growth, not an actual decline in tax revenues. We have to keep that in mind.

[01:03:47] Speaker 19: Okay. Uh Ed, thank you for your call. We've just run out of time. I want to thank you, Jerry Berris, for sharing your morning with us. Our Director of Operations is Jeff Alardi and our producer is Susie Roth. Our sponsor is the Hawaii Community Foundation. We invite you to join us next week when we're going to talk about same-sex marriage. We've got just a tremendous show, I think, planned for you. The attorneys on either side of the Bearv Lewin case, Dan Foley and uh Steve Michael are going to be here talking about the case and the implications. And then we've got a couple members from the Commission on sexual orientation, who will be issuing their report this week, two of their members who feel very differently about the recommendation that the majority of that commission will be making.

[01:04:29] Speaker 19: They'll be here, we hope you'll join us. Thank you very much, Aloha.

[01:04:09] Randall Roth: on either side of the Bervey-Luen case, Dan Foley and Steve Michael are going to be here talking about the case and the implications. And then we've got a couple members from the commission on sexual orientation, who will be issuing their report this week. Two of their members who feel very differently about the recommendation that the majority of that commission will be making. They'll be here. We hope you'll join us. Thank you very much. Aloha.

[01:04:35] Speaker ?: Okay. All right. I thought that went well. Yeah, that was pretty good. I like that. And then I did for we're off the air. Well, you know, Jeff, when I asked him how much time, he said a minute and a half and so, I mean that was a minute longer than we normally go. Anyway, I was confused on the ending because we were getting close to what was supposed to be the ending and he was doing nothing, so. What's up? Well, that's because we were I don't know, I think this room was turned off, but The other technician didn't come. Oh. Oh, so they got a problem. Hello from Palolo, it's not happening. I just don't know who are all here. So I don't know, I go home.