Political Advertising
Price of Paradise · Hawaii Public Radio · aired 1994-10-23
Guest host: Bruce Voss. Guests: Diane Chang (Editorial Page Editor, Honolulu Star-Bulletin); Dan Boylan (Professor of Political Science, University of Hawaii)
Duration: 1:01:40

[00:00:04] Bruce Voss: Good morning. This is Bruce Voss, filling in for Randy Roth this week as guest host of the Price of Paradise Radio Show. This week's topic is political campaign advertising, the good, the bad, and the ugly. At least $7 million will be spent on this year's race for Governor, and most of that will go for campaign ads. It's almost impossible to watch a half-hour of network TV this month without hearing at least once from all three major candidates. But the question is, to quote another TV ad, is anybody listening? We have two guests today to help answer that question and any others you might have on this year's political ad nauseam.
[00:00:37] Bruce Voss: Dan Boylan is a history professor at University of Hawaii's West Oahu College, a political columnist, and longtime political campaign analyst for KGMB TV. Diane Chang is the senior editor and editorial page editor and a political columnist of the Honolulu Star-Bulletin and is a former editor of Hawaii Business Magazine. We welcome your questions or comments on campaign advertising. Our number here is 955-8821. Neighbor Islanders call collect. Again, the number is 955-8821. Dan, let me start with you. Given this year's sheer volume of campaign ads, is anybody still listening, or have we all pretty much tuned it out a couple of weeks ago?
[00:01:16] Dan Boylan: No, I think a lot of people are still listening. I think, uh, one of the more recent, uh, polls I heard about was a, one of the gubernatorial candidates' polls that showed 30% of the population is still undecided. Now, that undecided vote, of course, goes up and down in everybody's polling, but I think there are an awful lot of people who are still watching. I just saw Pat Saiki's half-hour film for the first time last night. I'd never seen it. I think I think a lot of people now with two two people working and running all around, and 45 different stations on TV, you you don't always hit all the ads all the time.
[00:01:47] Dan Boylan: And a lot of ads come on that you haven't seen, that you haven't thought about. Frank Fasi, I noticed the other night, had a very strong family values, obvious appeal to the religious, uh, people in town. I'd never seen that one before. And I think I think a lot of people are still looking and still wondering. There's a, when there's this much sound and volume, a lot of people get lost and confused in the process, and then they're they're they're feeling shift or their ideas change or they're they're they're not quite so sure as people who like you and me and Diane perversely watch politics very closely.
[00:02:17] Dan Boylan: We may have decided long ago, but I don't I think a lot of people in the population at large haven't.
[00:02:22] Bruce Voss: Is that your perception too, Diane, from the letters to the editor that you get at the Star-Bulletin?
[00:02:26] Diane Chang: Mm-hmm. You know, on being on this show today, I I really am honored to be with Dan Boylan because he specializes in politics, and I consider myself a layperson. Oh, he's making faces now. But I think that when I'm watching television or or reading the newspaper, I am like the typical voter who wants to know more about the candidates, and yet, when I see the sheer volume of what's out there, it makes me roll my eyes and think, 'Oh gosh.'
[00:02:51] Diane Chang: And then I see the the negative negativism coming out, and that's unappealing, too. So, um, there is, though, a lot of interest like you said, letters to the editor. We just, we get about 100 to 200 letters a week and we can't print them all, but there is a great deal of interest in what's happening with the election.
[00:03:07] Bruce Voss: You're right, Diane. I think that this morning, I was talking to a guy over a cup of coffee and he he would he was talking about the negativism, how unhappy he was at the amount of of, he called it mudslinging, but critical ads that were going back and forth between candidates. And I think that gets people confused, too, and wondering and turned off and and then just grabbing on to some initial idea or or uh that they'd had down the way or or some anecdote that somebody told them about somebody or or they heard that somebody read the same book they read or something.
[00:03:37] Diane Chang: Mm-hmm. My concern is that it's going to turn all the voters off, and they're just going to get fed up with with all the politicians and say, 'Well, I'm not going to vote at all,' because there's just too much negativism and so many things wrong with everybody that I'm not going to vote. So, that's my concern.
[00:03:51] Bruce Voss: Well, with with regard to the negativism, um, we haven't, I don't think yet, anyway, at least to a layman like me, seen the same kind of mudslinging that we saw say back in 19 1986. If you recall Andy Anderson on a horse, or the ads portraying him as a plantation Luna, um, but maybe we've seen a a turn this weekend. Um, Fred Heming's ad attacking Frank Fasi, uh, the morphing ad, which has gotten so much play. Do you think the ad is going to turn a little, I mean the campaign is going to turn a little dirtier, Dan, as we get towards the last couple weeks?
[00:04:19] Dan Boylan: Yeah, it always does. I mean, it's it it's in the last week or two when you're you're you're trying to make your final point, you're trying to to get that last few votes. And this is an election that could very well be decided by those last few votes. This could be an extraordinary extraordinarily close election. Uh, remember that that that Mayor Fasi has more money than either of the other candidates, and you see that in the ad campaigns. He's on in terms of volume, just a lot more right now than either Patricia Saiki or Ben Cayetano, and he can keep up that level.
[00:04:53] Dan Boylan: Uh, Cayetano and Saiki, on the other hand, uh, uh, are going to have to to sort of harbor their money and what they've got left and come on very, very strong in these last two weeks, and I think that you're going to see them putting forth their best shots, which may very well include some negative advertising.
[00:05:07] Bruce Voss: You're listening to the Price of Paradise Radio Show. Our topic this week is political campaign advertising, and our guests are political analyst Dan Boylan and Honolulu Star-Bulletin senior editor Diane Chang. The number to call with your questions or comments is 955-8821. Neighbor Islanders call collect. Again, the number is 955-8821. Dan, I think, uh, a lot of people are a little confused when they see ads in the newspapers and wonder, um, how that influences the coverage.
[00:05:37] Bruce Voss: I know that, uh, the Green Party candidate, Kioni Dudley, has accused the newspapers of not giving him enough, uh, editorial play because he doesn't have the money to spend on the ads. And could you explain how, if at all, those two things are related or not related?
[00:05:49] Diane Chang: I know people find it hard to believe that the, the amount of coverage you get isn't, uh, doesn't correspond with the amount of advertising you buy, but that's absolutely, uh, not true. That, that doesn't happen. The editorial side is very independent, and we basically cover issues and topics of concern on, they based on what our readers want to read about or what they're concerned about. So, you know, there's no correlation between that and advertising. In fact, if there was, we'd sure be writing a lot of swell things about Frank Fasi because he has $3 million to spend. So, um, there's no correlation, and that's, that's a good example right there.
[00:06:22] Dan Boylan: But what what about Frank Fasi's contention that, uh, for years and years and years, he couldn't get a fair deal from the H&A, because because basically he was suing and trying to get rid of them? I I I always found something, it it always it always seemed to me that, I I this is of course a vague perception, but it always seemed to me that, frankly, the the papers were harder on on Mayor Fasi, uh, during that period and before throughout the time he was he and the council were going after them in the suit.
[00:06:48] Dan Boylan: And then immediately after it went to trial and they were they were properly defended, or or or they got off, the papers suddenly, it seemed to me, started letting Frank off. I mean, they were much less critical of the city administration. It seemed to me. I wonder if you have any thoughts on that.
[00:07:03] Diane Chang: Yeah, well, I well, luckily I just joined the Star-Bulletin last year, so I can only speak from a year's perspective. But, you know, I I really, um, I think Frank Fasi has done a some wonderful things for, many wonderful things for Honolulu as mayor. Um, I know that, um, when we do stories about what we see are problems within his administration, where we see ethical problems and concerns, his immediate response is to attack us and say it's because we don't like him, instead of looking within himself or his administration to change things that should be changed for the people.
[00:07:36] Diane Chang: So, I think he's very, um, very, very intelligent in that he discredits us by saying, 'Well, don't listen to the papers. They hate me.' And yet, he gets totally, he goes bonkers when we do stories pointing out some of these things that need to be changed. So, we have a real, I don't know, hate-hate relationship, love-hate relationship. I don't know what you would call it. But um
[00:07:56] Dan Boylan: But we have a love-love relationship with our callers, and we have one on the line now. John from Hono, please go ahead. What's your question or comment?
[00:08:02] Speaker 1: Uh, just this brief comment for you. Um, how about the winner of the election not be the person that gets the most votes, but the person who gets the most votes per dollar spent in in campaigning?
[00:08:14] Bruce Voss: You are you proposing that as an idea? Okay. Let's let's ask both Dan and Diane, uh, what do you think of that idea?
[00:08:21] Dan Boylan: Yeah, I don't think you could ever sell it constitutionally. I have a very cynical colleague who has always argued that instead of um instead of um, voting, we should, and since incumbents with large sums of money almost always win, let's make uh the elective offices a a bid contract. Uh, namely, all the candidates bid the amount of money they want. The person who bids the largest amount of money that goes into the state treasury and they get the job. Since in 90% of the instances, that's what happens. That person with the most money and who spends the most money wins.
[00:08:53] Dan Boylan: That's a little too cynical for my blood. But it's an idea. I don't think that anyone's going to accept the other the caller's suggestion either, though though in an age of cynicism it's not a bad idea.
[00:09:07] Diane Chang: Well, I think the bottom line on John's comment, though, that it's a very good premise that we have to really be concerned when so much money is being spent on these campaigns. And if you look at the mayoral race, um, in terms of who spent what and how, who got how many votes, I mean Gary Gill, I think in the, am I right, Dan? In that early, he was a he was really in a in in in the lead. Yeah, in the lead in the polls, and then when it came to spending, at the end he came in fourth.
[00:09:33] Dan Boylan: I'm I'm also thinking that um, Jack Lewin would definitely be run in there now, if, if you know, they measured it that way. Yeah, sure.
[00:09:44] Bruce Voss: John, from your perspective on Holo, is there kind of a reverse psychology with the campaign spending for you? I mean, does the more you spend, is it the less you want to listen to them?
[00:09:53] Speaker 1: Oh, I I don't think so. I think, uh, personally I just look at the issues. I might also comment there are four people running for governor, not three.
[00:10:01] Bruce Voss: Kioni Dudley. Mhm. Kioni Dudley. And has he, uh, has his ads impressed you in any way, John?
[00:10:07] Speaker 1: Um, I haven't even seen his ads to tell the truth.
[00:10:12] Bruce Voss: And maybe I guess that's the point of campaign spending. Thanks a lot for your call, John. Right. Uh, let me remind you listeners, you're listening to the Price of Paradise Radio Show. Our topic this week is political campaign advertising, and our guests are political analyst Dan Boylan and Honolulu Star-Bulletin senior editor Diane Chang. The number to call with your questions or comments is 955-8821. Neighbor Islanders call collect. Again, the number is 955-8821. Let's talk a little bit about some specific ads if if we might. Diana, have you, are you familiar with the the Frank Fasi tax ads and the in the controversy?
[00:10:46] Diane Chang: Oh, yes. Yes.
[00:10:48] Bruce Voss: Just to um to give our readers our listeners a little background, Frank Fasi's ads promise to lower state income taxes by instituting a flat-share system. Um, I guess maybe as an introductory uh question, given that the Constitution gives the power to tax and cut taxes to the Legislature, are ads like that, which promise to cut your taxes, a little misleading right at the forefront?
[00:10:59] Diane Chang: Oh, I think they're definitely misleading, but that's the beauty of Frank Fasi is he knows which buttons to push for the public. You know, we have Pat Saiki talking about her vision for the Asia Pacific region, and we we have Ben Cayetano talking about ethics and how we're going to bring ethics back into government.
[00:11:23] Diane Chang: And so, we have Frank saying we're just going to cut your taxes. I mean, who can you relate to if you're if you're struggling every month to pay your bills? Okay, hey, that's going to catch your attention, right? But it's very misleading, and he doesn't really get into the particulars. He doesn't say, 'Well, if it's based on the federal income tax, what if Clinton raises the income taxes?'
[00:11:41] Diane Chang: Well, naturally, the taxes are going to go up and we're going to have to pay more. But he, of course, doesn't get into the little nuances here that are going to affect us. So, I I think, um, people have to be really aware of of that when they're watching these kinds of claims.
[00:11:53] Bruce Voss: Dan, uh, the response from Pat Saiki was that, uh, Frank Fasi was going to pay for his tax cut on the backs of elderly, and then Frank Fasi responded with an ad saying, 'Pat Saiki's lying again' in large bold print. Um, what what what was your reaction to that whole tête-à-tête?
[00:12:08] Dan Boylan: My reaction is that there's a larger, much, much larger issue here, and the issue is that that uh the the overall dynamics of the campaign and announcement time. Frank Fasi and Pat Saiki both uh saw themselves as as people who could get the anti-establishment, anti-democrat, anti 30 years or so in office uh vote, and it this year it looked extraordinarily good and still does, if you look at the polls. The problem is Frank Fasi was 74 years old and had to run this year, because eight years from now if Pat Saiki ran and with that vote and got it, Frank couldn't go again.
[00:12:44] Dan Boylan: And he also, I think, considers himself a very bright man, a guy who who has run four-fifths of the state uh for 22 of the last 26 years. He I think he sees himself as much more capable than either uh uh Lieutenant Governor Cayetano or Mrs. Saiki and and uh he he jumped into it he had to go. He had to run this year. This was it.
[00:13:06] Dan Boylan: Uh Pat Saiki wanted to run also. She she had gotten a rush, I think, out of being head of the small business administration, was certainly more of a Republican over more years than than Frank Fasi was, and so we end up with this with this three-way race and these two people splitting up that anti vote so that the dynamics of the election may very well have been decided long before anybody bought an ad. So I think that you've seen now, since at least uh the middle of June or so, a whole series of ads on a whole series of issues in which uh Mayor Fasi and former Congresswoman Saiki have been going at each other.
[00:13:46] Dan Boylan: And the ironies of ironies, battling Ben Cayetano, you know, the old scraper is walking through. He looks like a banker in his ads.
[00:13:53] Bruce Voss: He looks like a banker in his ads.
[00:13:55] Dan Boylan: He looks like he looks like a banker, and and he's going through as the statesman, right? Uh, it's uh it's a peculiar turn of of advertising events.
[00:14:15] Bruce Voss: Well, to um just to make sure that the listeners don't think we're favoring one candidate over another, let's talk a little bit about something regarding Ben Cayetano's campaign. I don't know if any of you guys have seen the big newspaper ads from the labor pack, workers for good government. Um, those are essentially, I mean, they bring back memories of the Committee of Labor Education back in 1986, but they basically are Ben Cayetano's labor friends who rip Pat Saiki for raising the minimum wage by 50 cents, supposedly while she was in Congress and voting herself, not not raising.
[00:14:44] Dan Boylan: Not not raising. Oh, I'm not. Voting voting against raising the minimum wage.
[00:14:48] Bruce Voss: And um, voting herself a $35,000 pay raise. And I guess maybe the larger question beyond whether or not that's true or false, and of course Mrs. Saiki has said it is is false, is uh Diane, what do you think of having these labor packs or independent packs sort of being as the the attack dogs out front for the candidates?
[00:15:06] Diane Chang: Mm-hmm. Do you do you think that that's uh in any way deceptive or that the campaign the the candidate himself ought to be out front? No, I don't think it's deceptive, because it's obvious that all of these groups have their own interest at heart, and that's why they're pushing so hard. I mean, in fact, I thought that uh Mrs. Saiki's um responsive ad, 'No, I'm not your friend, but I'm a friend of your your members.' I thought that was very effective and and that will, like, you know, make people notice that.
[00:15:31] Diane Chang: And just for Ben Cayetano in in general, I think adds a lot to his um his candidacy. When I see them, I think you'll agree, Dan, when you see them on television together, they really complement each other. She really softens his image, because Ben has a, he's a very tough guy, and when you see Mazy there, very intelligent, of I don't want to say feminine, we don't want to get into this, but um
[00:15:54] Dan Boylan: You said, I won't.
[00:15:55] Diane Chang: Yeah, don't get me started guys, okay? But um I think that of all the running mates, she really, uh, brings a lot to to her candidate, her her gubernatorial candidate.
[00:16:04] Dan Boylan: She she helped the gubernatorial candidate more than anyone else did. And unless again, as the caller from Hono pointed out though, I thought if you watched that forum um that they did on public television, the the Morris, the uh Kioni Dudley's lieutenant governor candidate, I thought came off quite well, quite strong.
[00:16:23] Bruce Voss: You're listening to the Price of Paradise Radio Show, and our topic this week is political campaign advertising. Our guests are political analyst Dan Boylan and Honolulu Star-Bulletin senior editor Diane Chang. The number to call with your questions or comments is 955-8821. Neighbor Islanders call collect. Again, the number is 955-8821. And just go ahead, Dan.
[00:16:45] Dan Boylan: Bruce, I just want to respond to something that you'd you'd asked Diane about. I I I think those those ads that that the mud the mud packs as they're called, the the the labor uh ads that Cayetano's friends are putting up, those are perfectly legitimate. You've got a you've got a right to do that, but then you have a right to answer, and I agree with Diane. I thought that Mrs. Saiki's ad in response was stronger. It was stronger than and and really sort of, you know, here's in your face, [unintelligible — audio glitch] snuff you, kind of ad and it was perfect.
[00:17:16] Dan Boylan: I thought it was right on target, and throughout the campaign it seems to me, she's been doing a fairy fairly good job of dealing with the united labor front behind Cayetano. She has she has questioned all of the endorsement, she said, you know, here are 50 people who signed a petition and within HGA or something who favor me or whatever. I don't, that's not a specific, but I mean there there have there there's been a lot of that. I think she's done a very effectively.
[00:19:00] Speaker 1: eventually go to Ben Cayetano this time, Dan, or not?
[00:19:02] Dan Boylan: Oh, yeah, I think it will. The the question always is in what proportion will it go and and the labor vote is is is certainly no monolith. Not in the era of of white-collar unionism. Um, there's so many, obviously, it's the fascination of Hawaii politics, that there there's the labor vote and and various kinds of labor unions. And then then there's the ethnic vote, and there's the, you know, the business vote and the downtown business vote.
[00:19:29] Dan Boylan: I did a wrote up a poll on business people, and if if you watch them, I'll tell you I'll looking at that poll, I'll tell you precisely who's going to win. Patsy Mink and Jeremy Harris are so overwhelmingly for those two candidates. Downtown business, there's no way to talk about it. Uh, but so, I, you know, I think that that that he'll get the labor vote. The point is how much of it will he get. And and what what will the percentages be, where will it be?
[00:19:54] Dan Boylan: The labor vote doesn't mean as much as it used to. He's got the ILWU endorsement, so you're going to get Hamakawa Coast vote, right? That's hardly. Hamakawa ILWU labor guys going out of their jobs, they're not what I would call the most, you know, they won't that high a percentage. They're not that enthusiastic about their union at the moment.
[00:20:13] Speaker 1: Is that your perception too, Diane?
[00:20:15] Diane Chang: Well, I think the labor vote is important, but also, I think voters are, you know, we we have to think of other things like the ethnic vote and, you know, in terms of getting back into feminism here, um, even though I wasn't going to bring it up because you won't get me to stop. Um, you know, the thing with Patsy Mink is she has a very unique uh problem compared to the other candidates, is that she's a woman, of course. And you know, unfortunately, when you're a woman and you're running, people tend to look at you and tend to critique you in a different way.
[00:20:43] Diane Chang: Like I've heard people say, well, I'm not going to vote for Pat because she's just too strident in those commercials, or she's not feminine enough or you know, you never hear that kind of talk about the men. Like, well, I'm not going to vote for Ben because he's too, you know, he's too macho or whatever that is.
[00:20:57] Diane Chang: But when it comes to a woman, they're always viewing her and they're they're trying to judge her in terms of how does she come across, you know, so the the personality and how you dress comes across, and I remember Mrs. Minkie was saying that she usually wears pants to uh when she appears, and that's because if she gets a run in her stocking, everybody notices. Okay? And these are the kinds of things that the men don't have to concern themselves with, but with the women, they are judging you for so many other things and that's that's just one more thing she has to concern herself with when she's campaigning, so.
[00:21:26] Dan Boylan: Well, with regard to Pat's image advertising, um, you've seen, uh if if you've been watching TV, you had to have seen them, the because she cares campaigns, and there's an awful lot of spots of uh Patsy Mink hugging kids, hugging elderly, there's that one radio ad which has the little kid talking about Patsy Mink. Um, do you think those are effective in encountering that that perception?
[00:21:47] Diane Chang: Personally, when I see that, um, it doesn't really excite me, or it doesn't turn me on because, um.
[00:21:56] Dan Boylan: You stick your finger down your throat.
[00:21:58] Diane Chang: Well, yeah, and it's that's nice that she likes to hug people and that she's a a good person, but um, I'm not sure. I don't think that's what people want to see. I don't think they want to see who is the nicest person become governor. I think they want to see somebody who can tackle the problems and and get things going. So, it's very effective when Frank says, well, forget everything else. I I've done things. I've accomplished things. That's why I should be governor. So, you know, it's it's effective what he's doing.
[00:22:24] Dan Boylan: Given the uh, I guess maybe a little bit more cynical electorate, Dan, would you agree with uh Diane that uh people really don't care how much you care? Oh, no, I I I disagree. I I I think I think one of the, I like those ads, frankly. I don't like the radio one that she's done because you can't hear it very well. Those kids are singing, and then she comes on sort of uh at the end of it, and it it it's a I like that song.
[00:22:46] Diane Chang: It's a
[00:22:47] Dan Boylan: But I'm radio, it's a. It's an absolutely pathetic ad, Diane. Uh, on television, however, I think it's somewhat stronger. You will remember Duke Bainum who who did what I considered to be the most repulsive ad of the of the political campaign season, where he had, you know, advertising being a doctor and running off to help people in Florida and then over in Aniki, and and sort of advertising his humanitarianism and and and then he had children singing about wonderful Duke, and and then he uses the Red Cross sign and all that good stuff.
[00:23:18] Dan Boylan: That was that he was trying to do exactly the same thing and it I thought it was just the trouble with these kinds of ads is it's right on the edge of being, I don't know, mawkish. It was just awful. Uh, and and then she's done, I think, two television ads of this type and in and one, I didn't think was that that all that red hot.
[00:23:36] Dan Boylan: But in general, the the other one, I found quite affecting because I know enough about her to know that she really is sort of a mother hen type with with children, or with young people, with with with with with friends, with the people that she tends to mentor and she really does care about them and and hug them and like them, and that's that's real, that's genuine. I think the best advertising is genuine. I think one of Jack Segal's absolutely brilliant uh uh uh moves as a as an advertising man is yes, he spends a lot of money. Yes, he charges his candidates a lot.
[00:24:08] Dan Boylan: But, but in general, he is true to their personalities when he puts together these half-hour things that more sophisticated folk laugh at and say, oh, cynically say, oh, look how that's an appeal to this that or the other. He does he never he didn't never tried to make Jack Burns into Mr. humor and Mr. warmth and Mr. lovey-dovey. He he he he treated him as he was. He did the same thing with George Ariyoshi, he's done the same, he did the same thing with with John Y Hay, he did the same thing with Ben Cayetano.
[00:24:34] Dan Boylan: Essentially, you watch the Ben Cayetano ad, it's true to him, the half-hour thing. It it is essentially true to who he is and it doesn't try to make him something he's not. I think that Pat's ad, her half-hour ad I saw last night and the thing and the those those ads with the children, I think they're true to her, and that's good ad, that's those are skilled people.
[00:24:52] Dan Boylan: What, excuse me for taking so long, uh uh, Bruce, but another thing that it that that I think that bothers me a little about a bit about Pat's is they're so uneven. Uh there's a rawness to them which may be the lack of money in in in her campaign this year and in Cayetano's campaign, at least in the amount of time his stuff is on the air. Uh and and that and her ads are quite uneven. Some are very, very good, it seems to me. Some of them are not not so good.
[00:25:19] Speaker 1: You're listening to the Price of Paradise Radio Show and our topic this week is political campaign advertising. Our guests are political analyst Dan Boylan and Honolulu Star bulletin senior editor Diane Chang. The number to call with your questions or comments is 955-8821. Neighbor Islanders, call collect. Again, the number to call is 955-8821. And while we wait for some calls, we have some uh some business we have to attend to. As you most of you listeners know, HPR is in the midst of their fundraising drive.
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[00:27:14] Speaker 1: You uh you talked about uh Jack Burns, uh Dan, and um uh Pat Psyche has uh invoked the name of um Jack Burns in her uh Pacific partnerships. Do you think that's effective or does anybody care how Jack Burns would have voted?
[00:27:28] Dan Boylan: Oh, sure, there's a perhaps the voters the votenous folks we know in our in our society are older people. And uh the votenous people among older people are Japanese American older people. I mean, it's a religion on election day you go out and you vote. Uh and many of them, of course, signed up with Jack Burns. Uh I I find that ad however a double-edged sword. On the one hand you invoke Jack Burns to try to appeal to that generation.
[00:27:52] Dan Boylan: Uh on the other hand, however, you're reminding that generation that while while other people of that generation were by and large taking out Democratic Party cards and supporting the visionary Jack Burns, Pat Psyche was supporting Randolph Crosley of the failed thrift uh uh you'll remember was uh I think retired in and he passed away by now in California, so she took she became a Republican. I I I I've I've wondered about that ad, the advisability of it.
[00:28:17] Dan Boylan: I've also wondered because it's an old issue. The last time it's the vision issue. Every every four years or two years, somebody trying to do the vision thing picks up on making Hawaii the East West thing, right? The last time I remember it brought up ironically was by Patsy's opponent Mary Bitterman in 1988, and she talked about the meeting place between East and West and making Hawaii that so I don't know whether it works.
[00:28:42] Speaker 1: And you remember Randolph Crosley in 1974 got 45% of the vote shortly before being indicted for fraud. Right. Let's uh let's go to the phones. Uh line uh one. Tony from Waimanalo, what's your a question or comment?
[00:28:53] Speaker 2: Hi. Um what I wanted to do was just pose a question to the panel and I'll hang up and um listen to the radio.
[00:28:59] Speaker 1: Okay, go ahead.
[00:29:00] Speaker 2: Um, what I wanted to find out, it's kind of a naive question is um the campaign contributions that go to the candidates, um can they be used for um personal types of things. I and what I mean is, is it like um income coming into the candidate or do they have to just spend it on campaign um financing on campaign issues, advertising and such?
[00:29:23] Speaker 1: Okay, thanks a lot, Tony. That that is an excellent question and I think one that a lot of people are confused about. Um, Dan is the resident expert in the room. Dan?
[00:29:31] Dan Boylan: Uh not the way Ian Linda the Star Bulletin is, but but uh uh no, they can't spend it on on buying their kid a baseball bat. They can, however, I think uh spend it on buying baseball bats for the softball game for their campaign supporters picnic and write it off as a campaign expense.
[00:29:52] Dan Boylan: I remember looking through them some several years ago and finding uh then state representative Hemmings having purchased a suit for a dinner suit that was necessary to go to campaign and another person uh uh now defeated uh uh then state senator uh Karen Harida was making payments on her Saab uh I think it was as part of her can. So yes, the the the the law says you cannot use that money for personal things, but you can claim as many of us do on our income tax that that say uh something that we do personally like pay a telephone bill is also used for our for our side business or whatever and I and I think that you'll see a lot of money used that way. Less frankly, since the Star Bulletin's Ian Lynn launched the the monitor and and has begun to bring some light on onto that.
[00:30:45] Speaker 1: Uh Diane, any comments?
[00:30:47] Diane Chang: No, Dan hit it right on the nose and I I think basically people just want to get a lot of money so they can buy ads, you know, because that's where where it is and that's how they reach the voters.
[00:30:57] Speaker 1: That's right. Most of the money is of course exhausted. There was a rule in Congress which I think was repealed, which was retiring members of Congress could take away their surplus but as I recall that was finally repealed two years ago. Uh let's go to the phones again, Larry from Hawaii Kai. Um, what's your question or comment?
[00:31:13] Speaker 3: Good morning. Uh, I'd like to uh talk about the uh advertising, the tone of the advertising. You know, for instance, yes, that I listen to CNN uh Brian Lamb and I had a had a a news man on and said that that uh if you talk about uh the good things about the uh the the uh candidates and what they're doing, nothing. But once you get some mud in there, why everything comes alive.
[00:31:40] Speaker 3: Uh, we're totally uh turned off and disgusted with what's going on in in Hawaii with all this negative advertising. Yesterday with Henning comes on and then Fasi comes on, and then then Psyche comes on, and uh everybody, the green party, they don't have any money, but all all this millions of dollars are being spent uh on this kind of advertising. I I don't really understand, are we are we expected to really believe all this stuff? And they they they they interrupt programs to bring on this uh this this this type of name calling. It's it's really it's really disgusting. There must be some way to control it, or to control what these people think that we listeners, we voters are, that we like all this uh uh uh junk uh crap that that they're that they're putting out.
[00:32:35] Speaker 3: I mean, if it's issue-oriented, yes. But it's not. I mean, what can we do about this?
[00:32:41] Speaker 1: Well, uh let's uh turn to Diane Chang, senior editor of Honolulu Star bulletin. Um, let me pose Larry's question to you. Do they really expect us to believe all this stuff?
[00:32:50] Diane Chang: Well, you know, unfortunately, I think I saw that same um that story on the news last night about how ineffective uh talking about wonderful things is, and when they start to attack each other, that gets people's attention, and that's um a nationwide trend that unfortunately, I think we're going to be seeing more of in Hawaii. Um, you know, I I think that one of the the comments made was, of course, don't vote for the people who are running those kinds of negative ads, but, you know, I don't I don't think that will it will help very much.
[00:33:21] Diane Chang: Um, and like I said, my major concern is that when you see all this mudslinging happening, that people will just get fed up and not vote at all. And that's my my main worry.
[00:33:31] Speaker 3: Well, let me ask you this. Uh, so suppose the uh the uh newspapers, the media, the radio, TV would say to these people, we aren't going to accept any more uh this really low down nothing nothing uh to the voters of what you guys are putting out. I don't care. He he he's a lot. You know, if you listen to Larry, you listen to North and all this going on that this is is it's really disgusting, isn't it? I mean, I find it, we find it repulsive.
[00:34:02] Diane Chang: Mhm. Yeah, but it's a it's a freedom of speech issue, too, because they should be able to say what what they have to say without being censored by by the media. And that's basically what we're doing, too. Our First Amendment rights.
[00:34:14] Speaker 3: Yeah, but the stunts comes over when when you hear people like Rush Limbaugh, you you you're you're part of a great industry. And like Rush Limbaugh, all these people come in, and and there must be some like I I I there must be some way that we that my First Amendment rights are are offended or violated by my having to listen to all your diatribes. That that the news, you know, the news media is part of it, right? You're accepting the money, you're putting it on. Is there is there any way to to control it, lighten it, stop it?
[00:34:52] Diane Chang: Well, you know, we have our our guidelines about libel and slander and invasion of privacy and all these things, but we're we're basically um a vehicle of getting a message across and and that's what they're doing in whatever way they choose to do it, and I think that if you object to that, you should let them know and you let them know by not voting for them or calling them or writing letters to the editor or whatever way you have.
[00:35:13] Speaker 3: Well, that Diane, let me ask you a question. What's the message getting across when somebody else calls somebody a liar. Somebody else calls somebody uh well you you you name the name because you're familiar with with the terms. I mean what what is the message that's getting across?
[00:35:31] Diane Chang: You know, unfortunately, the message that gets across is very effective because um let's face it, we're talking about this now, is because it got our attention. We're listening to the to the messages that are negative. We're not listening to, we're not reading the two page spread that Patsy put out on Asia Pacific. What does the Asia Pacific region mean to me? So, um, unfortunately, they're going to keep doing whatever is effective and you know that that's what's happening.
[00:35:56] Speaker 1: Thanks a lot for your call, Larry. Appreciate it very much. I have to say something, Bruce. I am I sorry you had to let me, I like I I'm going to let you say whatever you want, because I know you will anyway. I like that call very much.
[00:36:10] Dan Boylan: My favorite one of my favorite candidates running anywhere this year is Tony Worst, a Green up in Manoa Valley. And Tony on uh on Hawaii Public Television's Dialogue a few years ago made a comment in the midst of all sorts of folks like us who are who are rather mainstream in our our politics and our background, and she says, if we're going to succeed in this we're going to have democracy in this country again we have to take over our airwaves. We have to take control of our airwaves again.
[00:36:38] Dan Boylan: And uh I think that in the name of the First Amendment, in the name of uh uh of uh making a profit, in the name of uh commercializing television, radio, and everything else, we have essentially made it possible for uh very wealthy people who are already the best represented in the electorate to control uh the the airwaves and television advertising and political advertising, and thus control who we who our choices are.
[00:37:05] Dan Boylan: Kioni Dudley, as has been pointed out, doesn't have a chance in this campaign. Tony Worst, for example, up has less of a chance than some of the other uh candidates up there, mainly because, not because they're not as smart as Cayetano, Psyche and and Fasi, not because they don't have more ideas or fresher, but they can they but they cannot buy ads in the Star Bulletin, the Advertiser, they can't buy ads on radio. They cannot buy ads on television. That's the reason. That's the reason. We do not have a logical, systematic, and democratic system of electing our officials for public office right now.
[00:37:43] Dan Boylan: Kevin Phillips has written a book called Arrogant Capital, which is on the newsstands now. It's a it's a fascinating book and what he says right now is elections don't make any difference because lobbyists with big money interests, which many of us are part of with big money, now control control, those.
[00:38:00] Bruce Voss: Washington, they also I think control Honolulu. Uh and to a to a great extent. And we think we're going to change things if we elect Saiki or Fasi or Cayetano or, we won't. We won't, because once the we thought people thought things were going to change with Clinton. Clinton goes in, he he meets not the golfers are leaving town. They leave with Bush. Those are golfer lobbyists. Now they're not leaving town, they're still there, but they're not in main control. Now we got the new lobbyists. They're the financial, investment lobbyists and lawyer lobbyists and they get hold of Clinton. Either way, either way, we don't have control of of of our democracy anymore.
[00:38:34] Bruce Voss: You're listening to the Price of Paradise show and obviously our topic this week is political campaign advertising. The number to call with your questions or comments is 955-8821. Neighbor Islanders call collect. Again, the number is 955-8821. I see we have a caller from Maui on the phone, Areste. Uh, what's your question or comment?
[00:38:54] Speaker 1: Well, my comment is that the uh the campaign financing laws uh obviously lead to endless loopholes and um that the the single most um expensive ingredient of campaigns is television advertising, as well as I think it's the least informative, I mean you can't tell anybody something in 30 seconds and they can't check it later later if they think something was wrong with it. And um that banning uh television advertising um would bring the cost of campaigns down uh and everybody could then afford to campaign once again like we could before television.
[00:39:38] Speaker 1: And uh also the lady who mentioned that Saki is having a hard time because she's a woman, my mother never had a hard time because she was a woman. I don't know what she's talking about.
[00:39:48] Bruce Voss: Oh, what well Thanks for your comment Areste, I appreciate it very much and um well let's ask Dan Boylan about that. I mean there are obviously our constitutional problems with uh banning TV advertising but Dan Boylan, what do you think of that as a conceptual idea?
[00:40:03] Dan Boylan: I don't think you can ban TV advertising, but I I do think you can uh change the parameters of it. And I and uh we we just have to have some and we have we have a feeling for a young country, a relatively young country, we have some rather ossified feelings about our our 10 uh Bill of Rights. One, the First Amendment somehow is supposed to protect the right of all lobbyists according to the Supreme Court to buy our election campaigns and to buy our politicians through their political action committees. That's wrong. The Second Amendment somehow makes it possible for people to have grenade launchers on the street. That's wrong. Mr. Jefferson, Mr. Madison, and Mr. did not have that idea in mind. Now, I think we that we've got to deal with the First Amendment in in regard to political advertising and and and set the parameters and limit the amount and make it equal. Make it an equal playing field.
[00:40:54] Bruce Voss: Well possibly let's get away from forcing people with laws and just have the various parties agree not to advertise on TV. If we can imagine such a thing happening and actually getting along. It'll never happen.
[00:41:08] Bruce Voss: Let's face it, most people watch television, they get their news from television, and not the newspapers. Yeah, and so basically what they're doing is to try to reach the people out there and by, Right, well yes, but that but but reaching people with uh about elections uh for television, you give them a short little message, um there's no way for them to make a balanced decision. It would be better if they make no decision and stayed away from the polls than based their decision on TV. Mhm, okay. Thanks a lot for your uh for your call Areste. Let's go to uh line two, uh Marie or Mary from Kaimuki. What's your uh question?
[00:41:43] Speaker 2: Good morning. I just wanted to make a uh uh uh a comment to Diane Chang. I'm very uh happy that she finally um apologized publicly to Joe Moore and I think it'll take a while for people to learn to um respect her words, but I'm glad that she did it. It took a lot of courage. I congratulate her.
[00:42:02] Bruce Voss: Marie, could you could you elaborate? I'm not quite sure exactly what you're referring to.
[00:42:06] Speaker 2: He he wrote there were a number. She originally wrote a comment in the editorial page about a a um radio uh a TV journalist who uh was so bored with his work or something, but I think she said that her comment was originally uh started with Bob Jones, and then from there it went to uh someone who's bored and is doing plays and stuff. And and she didn't give a name. But then immediately, everybody recognized who it was uh who she was talking about and there was a barrage of letters to the editor and even from Kirk Matthews and from uh Joe Moore himself that he was not bored because but uh he used his time uh his vacation time and uh uh and he really honored and he was really interested in these people. Mhm. Uh that that he that he um display uh you know, like um uh the last one was John Wayne, and he'd done Will Rogers and that. And um Oh, thanks for calling, Marie. I'm glad you're reading. And um Is your last name Moore, by the way? No, it is not. Absolutely not. Oh, that's just checking, okay. And someone just a minute ago they said most people get their news over TV. No, I get most of my news over public radio. And then it's repeated in the news and and over TV and on the newspaper. So I get the up-to-date news on the public radio.
[00:43:30] Speaker 2: The other thing, I I just want to make a comment. I'm really concerned with the amount of money that is spent on campaigns, um political campaigns. And I'm only one voice, but I'm doing some research on what other countries are doing. It probably never never happened in my lifetime, but I would like to see a a a ceiling on campaign spending and uh some more integrity on the ads that are are being um uh um ba- that we're being barraged with on the radio, on television, in the newspapers.
[00:44:05] Bruce Voss: Right on the money, Marie, right on the money. Right on the money. Thanks a lot for your call, Marie. I appreciate it very much. radio show. political campaign advertising. Our guests are political analyst Dan Boylan and Honolulu Star Bulletin senior editor Diane Chang. The number to call with your questions or comments in the last uh I guess 13 minutes we have left is 955-8821. Neighbor Islanders call collect. Again, the number for your questions or comments on political campaign advertising is 955-8821. Diane?
[00:48:00] Diane Chang: Well, I'm I'm glad Marie called not only because she reads my column every Friday, but also it brings up another interesting point about um television news and and the impact of having Joe Moore on television. Uh when you have people like Nestor Garcia and John Yoshimora running for office because of uh the the um play they've had on being a channel channel two reporters, you know, they don't have to spend as much money as other candidates because everybody knows them. They're a familiar face and and John has said that when he goes to door to door, everyone acts like they're his best friend because they've watched him on the news. So, you know, in that regard, that's that's an interesting um aspect too and I've I don't know I have a little bit of a problem with Careful Diane. We're talking about Bruce Voss's future here. Oh right. just call him Senator Voss. I am, I am not running for public office, despite the fact I did, in fact, some of you listeners may recall, I I one time worked for Channel Two News and I I'm not promoting Joe Moore for governor.
[00:48:58] Bruce Voss: Um, we have another caller on the line. Uh, Mori from Maui. What's your question or comment?
[00:49:03] Speaker 3: Well, good morning. Um, in all the years that let me let me re- let me go back and try to express myself clearly. Are there any changes that any of you have seen in the last 200 years say in our election process despite all the laws, regulations, um change in the in the media from uh posters and bulletin boards and the sandwich boards to radio and then eventually TV and who knows what in the next 150 years? Are there really any changes? We're all concerned about the same issues. We're all concerned about graft and corruption and politicians who take advantage. We're all concerned about the the elite getting uh richer. Are there actually any changes over the years?
[00:49:55] Bruce Voss: Well, Dan, let let's go to you uh dating dating back to the boss tweed, cross of gold, etc. Um, you see any changes?
[00:50:02] Dan Boylan: You young pup, you. You think I live. Um, uh, are there changes in the society? Oh yes. I I I don't think I don't think there's any question about this. I I I think that um, certainly in my own lifetime the civil rights movement improved the tenure of this country, the feminist movement is in has improved the tenure of this country and some of the laws that accompanied those movements in the in the national legislature, I think have been extraordinarily important. I I'm not sure I understand the the Oh, it was sort of a lament that I don't see much progress.
[00:50:38] Bruce Voss: Well I I think there's been progress, Mori, on on civil rights certainly and and I I uh I I remember going to the down south for a summer in 1966 and and uh fearing for my life by getting involved in in the civil rights movement. I I don't think that that's uh that's as likely now. Okay. Thanks a lot for your for your call, Mori. Appreciate it very much. Thank you. Um let's go to line two Diana from I can't read that, is that Ahola? Oh, Aola. Ahola, I'm sorry.
[00:51:10] Speaker 4: Yeah, um, you know, we understand the concept that people shouldn't have 10 votes, one person have 10 votes and another one vote. Well, the campaign contribution has really made the whole voting system lopsided. And there would be a way of getting around doing it, if everybody were given say a pool of money or they were say limited, let's say you could spend $50 a year on campaign contributions, you could spend it anywhere you want to, national, local or whatever. And everybody would have the same amount. But people could volunteer, no nobody could be paid, but if people wanted to volunteer to go and work for a candidate or speak out or whatever, they could, but they could not spend nobody, no organization, nothing could spend more than that amount. And I don't see that there be any problems. People wanted to do deal with public issues like talk about um prison systems or stuff, they could deal with that, but they couldn't endorse candidates or get involved in, so they'd still have freedom of speech, but in effect it would be a way of having an equal money vote too, as well as an equal political vote when you go into the polling booth.
[00:52:24] Diane Chang: Oh yeah, I think we all agree. We definitely agree there have to be some changes. And for example, look at uh Duke Byham. I'm not saying that he's not a good candidate. He's done he's done wonderful things as a legislator, but he is independently wealthy, so he can finance his campaign as opposed to his competitor who has to But it's also true that special interest groups and and other groups can go and they can have a a a an effect that goes way, way beyond. Their effect, I mean, it wouldn't mean for example that somebody might not be able to give their $50 if they felt the union was doing the right thing to its political action fund. Mhm. Do you see what I'm saying? Yes. But each individual could not put in more than $50. Now, that $50 could be collected any way that they wanted to. There'd be freedom of speech in terms of how it was used but not, but no individual could exceed that. I think that's a that's a good idea, Diana. I think you'll have a tough time getting it through the Hawaii State legislature, though. Well, people people have to start thinking and and talking and I mean, equal vote means equal vote, and money is part of your voting. And there's no equality in income and there's no equality in money. So people don't have equal vote. Some people have a million or a billion, like Ross Perot, votes to my my vote.
[00:54:14] Bruce Voss: Nick from Maui. Uh what's your question or comment?
[00:54:15] Speaker 5: Uh yeah, there's a a couple of comments. Uh first, uh I believe that was Dan who made the comment earlier about uh Kione Dudley and Tony. Yes. And I think it was uh really right on. It was a perfect um explanation of why the major parties get all the publicity and why uh second and third parties do not. If you look at Fossi and the best party, that's solely a creation of Frank Fossi, it's not really a political party. It won't be here the day after the election similar to Ross Perot's party. It's a single candidate party. He's running a brilliant brilliant campaign. Should go down in the annals of Hawaiian politics because you don't see him at any forum where one of the other candidates can question him. Mhm. But he's running a a campaign through the media and there's so many people I talk to and say, wow, I really like Fossi. But all they know of is from his million dollars of uh campaigning. So the commentary about campaign election reform is very important and we'll never have true democracy and fair elections unless we have campaign election reform. You just made a comment about incumbents and I'm glad you mention that because that's a tricky issue. It's very easy as an outsider to comment on uh wanting changes, but then as soon as you get elected, you seem to get corrupted. So it's very important that the uh people and the citizens demand that we equalize the voting system and the caller just before me talking about someone with a lot of money has more than one vote, it's like the old daily line, vote early and vote often. I think that's it's quite accurate. So uh there was a comment earlier and I apologize for not getting the name of the uh uh woman that's there with you. Um, her comment when she said her fear is that people will not vote. Um, there's two comments on that. Number one, uh the papers were just bragging about how 54% of the population, the highest percentage in uh 10 years has registered to vote. Well that's only half of the people, which means one out of every two people has decided not to register to to vote even. And then when voting happens only half of those registered voters go and vote. So we're talking about only a quarter of the population anyway even caring about voting. Mhm. So right right now we realize that our voting system really is is not reaching out to the the citizens. My my final comment I really let me just say also remember that of that half, then in a three-way race like this, less than an eighth will decide who our next
[00:57:00] Bruce Voss: Governor, it will be.
[00:57:01] Dan Boylan: Yeah. Who is that, Dan? Was that your comment?
[00:57:03] Bruce Voss: Less than an eighth will decide.
[00:57:05] Dan Boylan: Dan, is that you? Well, you just lost my vote because Dan, it is not a three person race. My final comment was what I was getting at. It is a four person race. And how can you say it's a three-person race? You've been bought out by the advertising. Keoni obviously can't raise the funds. He's got a couple more weeks to bombard the media as much as he can to play their game.
[00:57:31] Bruce Voss: But let's hope that this year, like two years ago, when one of the Senatorial candidates used the media to to to the the worst level that one could use it, not the worst, of course it could get much worse. But um, and made such a fool of himself, it turned so many people off to him. They realized they didn't want to vote for the incumbent, and Linda Martin was able to garner 50,000 votes, of which of course many were pro green party votes, but realistically that was the green party's first election. Many was a protest to the reprehensible behavior of the two major party candidates. Let's hope that this year too, people will see Keoni as a viable real true alternative.
[00:58:16] Bruce Voss: Thanks a lot Nick for uh for Keoni Dudley getting a campaign ad in there. That requires however, a hairdresser for a four person race. Let's uh we have time for one more call I believe. Charlotte from Hawaii Kai, thanks a lot for uh for staying on the line. We have about two minutes left. You have a quick comment or question?
[00:58:34] Diane Chang: I too want to to yell about campaign funds. Uh we were told by the Congress United States that we would not be able to control, they would not be able to control the campaign without their funds. Uh they would not pass a law that would control it in any way. Do you believe that we the people would not back the candidates by millions and millions of dollars for advertising?
[00:59:03] Bruce Voss: Um, I mean would there be an election without without that money?
[00:59:07] Diane Chang: Oh I see. Um do you think elections would exist without money, Diane? Well, the papers couldn't exist without that money.
[00:59:17] Bruce Voss: Yeah, you know, I think I might get in trouble on Monday when I go in, but I think that they're definitely have to be we have to look at limiting the money spent on advertising. Um you know, we we get a lot of our money from campaign advertising, but I really am appalled at how, like the previous caller was saying, how Greg Fossi is insulting the the voters by avoiding these debates and instead is totally running his campaigns via um how his family values and having his family talk about what a wonderful guy he is. So yeah, I agree with you, there has to be some major changes.
[00:59:52] Bruce Voss: Briefly Dan, you agree, caps on campaign spending, a good idea?
[00:59:55] Dan Boylan: Yeah, but I'm for public financing. One group has pointed out that it cost $14 million to fund all the all the candidates and all the races on an equal level this year in Hawaii. Uh right now as we know, between Frank, Patton and uh and uh uh Frank Pat and Ben, they're going to spend 11 million already. I mean already, that's on the that's on the book. So, we're going to go way over what public funding says is necessary to give everybody an equal playing field which would allow the fourth candidate, Keoni Dudley, into the race.
[01:00:28] Bruce Voss: And that's the last word on campaign uh advertising. My guests today have been political analyst Dan Boylan and Honolulu Star Bulletin senior editor Diane Chang. Today's show was produced by Susie Roth with technical support from Jeff Illardi. Please tune in next Sunday when the topic will be Hawaii's fragile environment and our guest, our invited guests, will include Deputy State Health Director, former State former Deputy State Health Director Bruce Anderson, now City Environmental Coordinator. You've been listening to the Price of Paradise Radio Show. I'm Bruce Voss. Aloha and good morning.
[01:00:29] Speaker 1: And that's the last word on campaign advertising. My guests today have been political analyst, Dan Boylan and Honolulu Star Bulletin senior editor, Diane Chang. Today's show was produced by Susie Roth with technical support from Jeff Ellardy. Please tune in next Sunday when the topic will be Hawaii's fragile environment and our guests, our invited guests, will include Deputy State Health Director, former state former Deputy State Health Director, Bruce Anderson, now city environmental coordinator. You've been listening to the Price of Paradise Radio show. I'm Bruce Voss. Aloha and good morning.
[01:00:29] [dead air / no further speech for 2106 s; chunk04 empty on 2 attempts]