Hawaii's Future
Price of Paradise · Hawaii Public Radio · aired 1997-11-12
Guests: Jerry Burris (Editorial Page Editor, The Honolulu Advertiser); Peter Adler (mediator); Tom Brislin (Professor, University of Hawaii)
Duration: 1:09:12

[00:00:02] Randall Roth: Aloha! This is Randy Roth, host of the Price of Paradise show. We are broadcast live Sunday mornings on KHPR and KKUA and then re-broadcast Sunday evenings beginning at 8 o'clock on KIFO. Everyone who works to bring this program to you is a volunteer who believes in the importance of lively and informed public dialogue. We believe the brightness of any community's future is directly related to the level of activity in its marketplace of ideas. Our topic this morning is the Honolulu Advertiser's Tomorrow Conference on the Future of Hawaii. With me in the studio are Peter Adler and Tom Brislin, and by phone we have Jerry Burris. Peter Adler is the executive director of the Hawaii Justice Foundation. He has a PhD in sociology. We'll tell you a little bit more about Peter, I described him last week as a raging something, I forget what, but really, he's a raging conversationalist. Good morning, Peter.
[00:00:57] Peter Adler: Good morning, Randy.
[00:00:58] Randall Roth: And we have in the studio Tom Brislin, who's a University of Hawaii professor of journalism specializing in journalism ethics. He has 20 years of professional experience in Guam and Hawaii including 12 years at the Honolulu Advertiser. Good morning, Tom.
[00:01:12] Tom Brislin: Hi Randy.
[00:01:13] Randall Roth: By phone we have Jerry Burris, who is the editorial page editor of the Honolulu Advertiser, and Jerry had a lot to do with what we're going to be talking about in just a minute, but uh, Jerry, good morning.
[00:01:24] Jerry Burris: Good morning.
[00:01:26] Randall Roth: Well, the paper says, Hawaii's Future, Hope, Vision, from 400 voices. Peter Adler, I know you had something to do with this. You've got something to do with just about everything that's happening in the community these days. Real quickly, what's this thing all about?
[00:01:43] Peter Adler: Yesterday uh 400 people came together at the Heritage Center at the Japanese Cultural Center, 400 people from the community, from many different walks of the community met for a day. Spent a lot of time in the morning talking about who we are, where we come from, where we are now, and where we are trying to go to. Heard a very inspired talk from Nainoa Thompson, the navigator of the Hokule'a, and then spent the afternoon trying to generate recommendations in five areas: environment, education, government, society and culture, and in uh education.
[00:02:18] Randall Roth: I guess some people might hear the name Nainoa Thompson and say, gee, why would he be there when you're talking about things like government for example, but I read in the paper this morning that he's a navigator, which everybody knows, but uh, he says something that seems pretty simple. I hadn't really thought of it in these terms. A navigator has to know where he's going.
[00:02:39] Peter Adler: That's right.
[00:02:40] Randall Roth: And uh I suppose the whole idea of this conference was to try to figure out a little bit better where we as a community want to go.
[00:02:46] Peter Adler: Yep, I think that's right. I think as, uh you know, over the last year we've had lots and lots of different kinds of conferences sponsored by different groups, Pop being one of the groups over the last couple years that has brought people together. And this is one more I think in a long series or something buzzing in our community and people hungry for change, and yesterday was about change.
[00:03:05] Randall Roth: I know you and Tom Leppert together were the facilitators for the Economic Revitalization Task Force that we talked about last week, and we're not going to focus on it today, but later in the hour, I'm going to be asking you your observations about the overlap, the atmosphere at the two gatherings and just the combination of spirits that were there discussing all of this. But now I want to go to Jerry Burris. Jerry, tell me how did the advertiser uh go about putting this together and the big question, why did the advertiser put this together?
[00:03:38] Jerry Burris: It was a question we were asking ourselves like yesterday afternoon. Why did we do this? But uh really what it was [unintelligible — audio glitch] part of a of a larger process. I think we've been going through for several years where we're trying to listen to the community in different ways. I mean, we've always done our polling and uh we've opened up the pages considerably more to to people to put in their you know, their own ideas and their own letters and voices and things, and sending ourselves out to the community to try to figure out what people really care about so we can do our our journalism better. And uh it's sort of evolving out of that with the idea that uh it might be fun and also kind of interesting to just bring a bunch of folks together and and listen to them for a day, which is what we did.
[00:04:18] Randall Roth: Where do you see it going?
[00:04:20] Jerry Burris: That's the question that everyone asks at the end of the thing. They said, we've been to a thousand conferences and and it's always what next. I think uh as far as the paper's concerned, the answer's pretty simple, that what we heard yesterday was 50 or more pretty interesting ideas that should generate stories for us. I mean, we need to do our journalism now and explore these ideas, you know, the Aloha aina card and and everything else and and find out uh just find out more about them. Do journalism.
[00:04:59] Randall Roth: And I guess in theory, if you do all of that and if there are some really good ideas, that sooner or later the community is going to to recognize that?
[00:05:03] Jerry Burris: I hope so. I mean, I think part of our job will be to to take those ideas and translate them out to the broader community. I mean we did some stories today, but I think in the weeks and months ahead you'll see more of it. I mean a little bit more detailed exploration and commentary on the ideas. I mean some some may fall apart and some may blossom.
[00:05:11] Randall Roth: Okay. Here's another part to it too which we can talk about which has to do with the dynamics of the audience itself, the group. Okay. And we're going to talk some more about that in a minute, but Tom Brislin, I know at times you've been critical of the media getting itself into a position where they're quote, making news as opposed to just covering news. Um, let's take a couple steps back from that. What are your general thoughts on this conference that the advertiser and Channel 2 sponsored yesterday and then we'll get to some of the detail.
[00:05:41] Tom Brislin: Well Randy, the the conference is an example, I think of of a national movement in journalism that's referred to generally as civic journalism. The purpose of it is is to provide a forum uh with the thought that uh as as Peter well knows, that we have kind of lost our forums for civic discussion. The mall has replaced uh many uh many of our gathering places and it's become more of a of a commercial, a commodity. You mentioned at the very beginning of the program, one of the purposes of this is the marketplace of ideas. So I think what one thing that happened yesterday was a tremendous generation of ideas in a forum where uh ideally, some voices that might not be heard did have a chance uh uh to be heard. Also uh civic journalism tries to be solutions oriented rather than uh just uh holding up the the mirror to society and saying here are your problems, here are your blemishes, you better fix them. Uh this was an attempt to generate some ideas for solutions uh on those blemishes.
[00:06:55] Randall Roth: So this was uh a shot at civic journalism. Uh did it hit the target?
[00:07:00] Tom Brislin: I think that it it came uh fairly close. Um I as Jerry said, there's probably some interesting comments about participation. There's certainly interesting comments about where it uh goes from here, comments that Peter can make about the the two uh initiatives that are now on the table, this Hawaii's Tomorrow and the uh economic revitalization task force. So, it's it's going to generate a lot of discussion. It's going to keep me as a professor in business for the next year, that's for sure.
[00:07:38] Randall Roth: Okay. Jerry Burris, I know you're at some ranch and I can hear the horses in the background.
[00:07:42] Jerry Burris: It must be bucolic.
[00:07:43] Randall Roth: Okay. Um next, I would like to go to um Pat Brant. Uh Pat is somebody who attended the conference yesterday. Uh I'm told that Pat had some very interesting things to say, and uh Pat's on the line. Can you hear me okay, Pat?
[00:08:02] Speaker Pat Brant: Hi, yes, I can.
[00:08:03] Randall Roth: Okay. Uh have you been listening to the comments of of Peter Adler, Jerry Burris, and Tom Brislin?
[00:08:09] Speaker Pat Brant: Actually, I was on, I thought that was the show beforehand. I was listening to National Public Radio.
[00:08:16] Randall Roth: Well, we've had just a real general, brief description from them of what happened yesterday, and I would like to ask you as a participant, somebody who didn't have anything to do with putting it together, but a person who was there and a person I'm told who expressed herself quite eloquently, what are your thoughts on what happened yesterday?
[00:08:37] Speaker Pat Brant: You know, I've been involved uh with a lot of the people who felt that they were not being heard in the forums that have been going on so far, the economic task force and so forth. And I think that what happened yesterday was some of those voices were being heard and that was good. But I also, it was very clear that there were many more voices that aren't being heard. And I think that I I think I went to the meeting thinking, here we go again, talking to the choir and you know, it's going to be another meeting that'll make us feel good and we'll go home and nothing else will happen. Um, but I have hope that that's not what happened, that we started some conversations that gave people the motivation or restored that that feeling that they're going to go back home and continue this discussion with those very people out there who who were actually doing some of these things that we talk about needing being done. And I hope that the message got out that we're not missionaries going out into the community, but we are neighbors going out to listen. I mean, if that if people got that message, that was the most important thing that happened. But we have all kinds of ideas coming out. I mean my group, I sat in the economic uh group, and we had everything from legalization of marijuana to um uh restore tourism to uh downplay tourism, uh high technology to uh rural farming. It was just such a diverse group and and that was good, but in the time frame we sort of had to force ourselves into the 10, you know, the 10 most popular um uh solutions, I think we called them. And and and that left out again the minority views, some of whom were valid.
[00:10:29] Randall Roth: But bottom line, you thought it was a a worthwhile experience for you, and it sounds as though you're optimistic that the 400 people who together with you went through that program, that they're going to go out into their communities and they're going to help stimulate conversation.
[00:10:44] Speaker Pat Brant: You know, what it is is when you go to something like that with all of these people who are carrying and interested, it does two things. It either re- it either either makes you recommit to what you were doing because the energy is there, because people agree with you, or you meet all these people who disagree with you and you begin to uh to look at your viewpoints and either, you know, get more uh get stronger in terms of justifying them or change slightly or decide that, hey, the message is not getting out and I'm going to have to change it and I'm going to have to explain it in different ways. So yes, I think it was helpful.
[00:11:23] Randall Roth: Okay. Pat, thank you very much. We appreciate your participating. Peter Adler, we had another participant that we were going to call and we just found out that that she's ill, and so we're not going to be talking to her this morning. But I was told that that her comments would basically be along the lines of of the 400 people being kind of the same old group that goes to this sort of event, and you really didn't pull in the folks that hadn't been to events like this before, you really didn't have a true grassroots gathering. What do you say?
[00:11:55] Peter Adler: Well, I haven't seen the real demographics and I don't know that we actually have the demographics that would help us know that one way or the other. I suspect that many of the people who come to a conference like this are people who like to go to other kinds of conferences, and uh come to that with a certain hunger for participation. Um, I think the advertiser did a pretty good job of trying to open the doors and make it easy for people to come in, make it easy access. Uh that doesn't guarantee that we get the people who work on Saturday or the people who couldn't come in from a neighbor island or something like that. Um, so I think there was a real good effort to try and make this very uh open, very participatory, but I also think it's a very tough job to get the folks who don't normally turn out. So it's part of our general problem of participation in the state.
[00:12:42] Randall Roth: Jerry Burris, the editorial page editor at the advertiser who was I think primarily responsible for putting this together, how did you get folks to to show up? Were these people who wanted to come on their own or were they invited? How did that work, Jerry?
[00:12:55] Jerry Burris: It's good There's actually a good anecdote about this about who these people were. Um essentially uh the great majority of them came as a result of filling out a coupon on the paper saying they'd like to come. And we got far more responses than we could handle. We're a little embarrassed about that. But what we did is we took these coupons and uh Jim Gatty our editor made the first cut and uh [unintelligible — audio glitch] point is that he's relatively new to Hawaii and he went through and he chose on the basis of of uh basically geographic distribution and also interests in the five areas and then showed me his selection, and I I went through the whole list and I said, 'Hey, you left out all my friends.' So there were a lot of people there who I didn't know or hadn't met before. And of course the number that I did, but it was it was basically self-selection, the people who wanted to come, send in the coupon and went. And then in addition, we invited obviously we invited the governor to send some representatives and the mayor, and uh and some people called in [unintelligible — audio glitch] sort of urged us to let them come in and a few of those got in as well. But I would say it was 2/3 or more just uh people who sent in their coupons and 1/3 of people who kind of uh approached us and and urged us to let them participate.
[00:14:06] Randall Roth: And with with hindsight, you're feeling pretty good about the conference.
[00:14:10] Jerry Burris: I am. Uh you know, it the the usual question comes up, well now what and so what and the rest of that. But uh I think it's it's on our back now, at least for our side, to do some uh as I kept saying earlier, to do some some good journalism and what we learned that that day. I think that the uh and this may sound a little superficial, but the real product of the day was the kind of the spirit of the conference. I've never seen so many people energized and talking to each other and sharing ideas and and realizing they have more things in common than they thought. Uh part of it inspired by what Nainoa said, and I think if we can keep that that feeling going, uh we've done a lot.
[00:14:46] Randall Roth: Tell tell our listeners a little bit about what Nainoa had to say and and how he said it, because all I've said thus far is that uh as the master navigator, he told us what what seemingly we would all know anyway that we need to know where we want to go before we can hope to get there. Uh tell us a little more about what he was saying.
[00:15:03] Jerry Burris: Well, it basically told a very simple straightforward story of of uh building the Hawaii Loa, the canoe that they took the logs from Alaska and built it and sailed it down to the South Pacific. But uh his real purpose was to create I don't know what you would call it, a metaphorical uh framework for all of the discussion that went on. Uh metaphorical framework in a lot of ways. He talked about when he was offered a a log from Africa, he wouldn't accept it until they had gone back and planted koa seedlings back where in in the Hawaiian mountains because we couldn't get a log here, and he talks about being on a canoe and that people can't afford to disagree too much on a canoe or it won't the voyage won't be successful. And he talked about when you leave Hawaii and are gone for months at sea and you come back and you see it, you realize what a precious asset it is, and how important it is to preserve it. And all these thoughts and feelings came out and then the people used those to sort of uh frame their own discussions throughout the day.
[00:15:58] Randall Roth: Wonderful.
[00:15:59] Jerry Burris: It really was.
[00:16:00] Randall Roth: Tom Brislin, uh we're going to tell people who tuned in late what they're listening to and we're going to invite calls in just a minute. But again, you're our potential critic. Uh I get the impression you think this was done fairly well, but any other thoughts uh from let's say the naysayer side of you about what could have been done differently, better, whatever before we go to callers?
[00:16:32] Tom Brislin: Well, the you you asked the question earlier uh is there a criticism of essentially the news media creating rather than covering news. And yes, that is the danger of uh civic journalism initiatives. Uh apparently in listening to to Jerry and attending the conference, that the one of the purposes is to create an agenda for journalism, that now the advertiser has an agenda for the kinds of stories it is going to cover in these areas and perhaps uh also editorial uh comments as well. And journalism does set the agenda for the for the community. What uh what newspapers and television stations cover is often the uh the prime topic of of discussion and is go ahead. Well well let me ask you. I'm a little bit confused because what I what I thought I was hearing was that the people who attended this set the agenda for the advertiser's future coverage. But then I heard you say the advertiser, as part of the media, sets the agenda for the community. Is it a chicken and an egg sort of thing or or who sets the agenda?
[00:17:33] Tom Brislin: Well, in many in many ways it is uh Randy. As as Jerry, I think will readily admit in in polling, that if you do a lot of stories about crime and then take a poll, people will consider crime to be one of the most important problems uh facing the community.
[00:17:48] Randall Roth: So the way the conference was structured could have affected the outcome, and so while the outcome is perhaps setting the agenda, maybe the advertiser had some influence over that outcome.
[00:17:58] Tom Brislin: Well, when you just look at at the agenda and you look at the the different areas, uh for instance, there was there's really nothing in there about the criminal justice system, whereas that might have come up in the general category of society and culture. Uh there are some problems with the criminal justice system, but that wasn't addressed because of the just the framing of the of the conference. So this does set one agenda. The question I would have as a media critic, is this the only agenda that we're going to see? And if some of the ideas run counter to uh the advertiser's editorial position, although I I really don't see any in the top 10, will they get the same weight of coverage, uh you know, the 'gee, this is an idea we really go along with' too? And then there are others that uh that perhaps we don't, so so they'll get less. So it's it's a question now. I don't have again, I'm uh
[00:19:00] Speaker Speaker 1: I applaud the effort that went into yesterday's uh uh conference. The question now is, what do we see from the results?
[00:19:11] Peter Adler: Okay, and this is Peter Adler now. A meeting like yesterday's is it's kind of like looking through a kaleidoscope. You can turn it, and it looks a little different, no matter what angle you're looking at it. One one view to one response to what Tom is saying is that you could think of yesterday from a journalistic point of view as a 400 person focus group. I mean, you brought 400 people together to hear what was on their mind. You structured some questions and set up an agenda, and you've heard some answers. And it's not the only part of the universe that needs to be tracked and thought through over the next couple years, but it's a response.
[00:19:42] Speaker Speaker 1: In case you tuned in late, you're listening to The Price of Paradise Radio Show. My name is Randy Roth. We're talking about civic journalism and The Honolulu Advertiser's Tomorrow conference on the future of Hawaii. If you'd like to ask a question or make a comment, our number is 955-8821. If you're on a neighbor island, we have a toll-free number. It's 1-800-955-8821. If you tuned in late and would like to hear the show in its entirety tonight at 8:00 on KIFO, that's 1380 AM, you can do just that. With me in the studio is Peter Adler, who's the executive director of the Hawaii Justice Foundation and was the moderator of yesterday's conference. Tom Brislin, who's a University of Hawaii journalism professor specializing in journalism ethics, and Jerry Burris is with us by phone. He's the editorial page editor of the Honolulu Advertiser.
[00:20:38] Speaker Speaker 1: Again, if you'd like to ask a question or make a comment, our number is 955-8821. Well, we have on the phone now a fellow by the name of Tyrone Reinhardt, who also attended the conference yesterday. Tyrone, can you hear me?
[00:20:53] Speaker Tyrone Reinhardt: Aloha kahiyaha. Yes, I can hear you.
[00:20:56] Speaker Speaker 1: I'm told that your comments focused on the need for the people of Hawaii to keep the host culture at the center of of whatever it is that we do. And I'm told that you felt very strongly about that and expressed yourself extremely well. What I'd like to ask you this morning is, is the conference itself? Did it strike you as a good idea that there would be such a conference that the Advertiser and Channel 2 News would be sponsoring it and how do you feel about where it's likely to go?
[00:21:28] Speaker Tyrone Reinhardt: I I uh applied to attend the conference because I felt that uh native Hawaiians needed to be at this kind of conference looking into the future. I think the future calls for more conferences, but at a smaller uh level than 400 people. Uh, there were several things that came up though. One of the things that I think your your person got my name from was because as we looked at uh what qualities, you know, if you left Hawaii, what would you leave and all? And and and the problem is, and I I need to say that this was not only Pacific Islander Hawaiians, but also a Caucasian woman who said, I have no place to return to. This is my home.
[00:22:14] Speaker Tyrone Reinhardt: And so the question of dealing with where do you go when you leave here was not a question that that applied to many of us who have no place to go but Hawaii. And that issue was raised and I don't believe was dealt with.
[00:22:28] Speaker Speaker 1: Tyrone, I I get the impression that that to you, the fact that there was a conference is what's important. The fact that it was sponsored by the media as opposed to the community doing it itself, I get the impression you don't feel that that's a a major concern.
[00:22:46] Speaker Tyrone Reinhardt: No, it's not a major concern, but there are concerns of the community. There were Samoan men there who were very angry because when they came in they saw very few Pacific Islanders in there and they didn't know what to do.
[00:22:59] Speaker Speaker 1: Mhm.
[00:23:00] Speaker Tyrone Reinhardt: And I I and I know people were invited specifically to be at that conference because one of my former students said she was she received a specific specific invitation to attend. And I think the conference then has to be to make it really worthwhile, has to be very diverse in its participants.
[00:23:21] Speaker Speaker 1: Tyrone, what what you're feeling, having gone through the conference, what you're feeling as to where it's likely to go and who's going to take it there and what the timetable is, is there any sense at all for what happens next?
[00:23:36] Speaker Tyrone Reinhardt: I don't know who's going to take it where. Uh, I I kind of look forward to maybe having smaller groups of be focus groups meeting so that we can spend time talking. And we were unfortunately, and I think you have to do this with such a large group, under a time agenda. And so there were times when the small group I was in not everyone had a chance to express their feelings and their thoughts. I think we need more time or less agenda items, and and a longer period of time, maybe two days to really wrestle out some of these things. Okay. I think it's a good process for the future.
[00:24:19] Speaker Speaker 1: Okay. [unintelligible — audio glitch] do have one one more thing though, and I know it sounds like I'm pushing an agenda, but it kind of scares me. In the second video put out by K K O N Channel 2 and I have always enjoyed Channel 2. Uh, they said that the Pash law was passed to uh to to uh give native Hawaiians collecting rights and that is a real error. Yeah. You know, I tell you what, Tyrone, I'm sure you'll be be pleased to hear this. We're going to do a another show. We've done several on the Pash case already. We're going to do another one sometime in the next couple of months, and there is a a working group out there that's been trying to push this along and help the community understand what's going on. And so we're going to have a show that focuses on helping people understand just what that's all about and and the potential directions that it could go.
[00:25:13] Speaker Tyrone Reinhardt: Okay.
[00:25:14] Speaker Speaker 1: Tyrone, I really appreciate you sharing your thoughts with us this morning. We've got some folks who've called in and we're going to go to them now, but thank you so much for uh for letting us call you. Let's go to Dick in Aiea. Good morning, Dick.
[00:25:25] Speaker Dick: Good morning. I first want to say I think the process and Mr. Adler's all is very important. The one concern I feel, however, the the number one uh conclusion or recommendation is the very opposite of what the governor's task force and that's the Land Use Commission. Uh they said yesterday, keep it and governor's task force said eliminate it and I personally think it's a good thing, but what I'm wondering, and I I talked to one legislator, a key man the other day and he says we have tough things that must be done and he's right. But I also wonder if Hawaii is lagging California and the mainland, as we have in the past, on the bad problems they have, it takes 5 to 10 years for they to become our bad problems. Maybe recovery is part of that picture, especially in as much as we're so dependent on tourism, and I think that may be the underlying problem, because tourism is an up and down process. But I still conclude my basic observation, Hawaii is the best place in the world to live, and I also have faith in the legislature that they're elected to make these tough decisions.
[00:26:38] Speaker Speaker 1: Okay. Dick, thank you for your call. Peter Adler, you were not only at both the conference and the deliberations of the task force, but you led both of them, the one with uh Tom Lepart and and the other one yesterday with the assistance of some other people. Um, how much overlap was there because as Dick just pointed out, the top of the list on page one of the Advertiser this morning was keep the Land Use Commission, and that was the opposite of one of the recommendations from the task force. Were they mostly thinking in the same vein or different veins?
[00:27:10] Peter Adler: Well, I think that they are there's actually more similarities in some ways. People aren't going to like hearing that necessarily, but I think that there are a lots of similarities between what the Revitalization Task Force has come up with and what has uh percolated to the top of yesterday's conference. Um, for example, uh both both groups are calling for major tax cuts. Both groups are saying we've got to strengthen tourism. Both groups are saying we've got to achieve government efficiencies. Both groups are saying we've got to streamline the regulatory process. Both groups have said we've got to privatize services that can be done more efficiently. I see lots of overlap. I have the benefit of having listened very at very close range to the the task force. I think over the coming months, there there we're going to see a lot of convergence of these things, and it's going to take lots more discussion. Uh again, for somebody who wasn't at yesterday's conference and certainly hasn't didn't have an opportunity to participate in any of the working groups that led up to the task force, it's really hard to get your brain around all those particular moving parts, but I at least from my point of view, I see lots of convergences. I'm not particularly troubled by the fact that one group comes up and says get rid of the I'll use it, and the other group comes up and says keep it. I think that's part of the discussion that we're going to have as a community. It's both uh a tangible discussion and a symbolic discussion and I'm I think it's lively.
[00:28:29] Speaker Speaker 1: Oh, we had a show two months ago and one of our guests said get rid of it and one of them said keep it. Of course, we did that on purpose, but uh it wasn't too surprising that there would be difference of opinion on that. Let's go to Andrew in Makiki. Good morning, Andrew.
[00:28:41] Speaker Andrew: Uh good morning. Um just a couple things here. You know, I'm sitting here laughing. I'm listening to Honolulu advertiser and the Bull Star Bulletin. They they say they want to try and create these stories. They don't want a story. They they they don't want to print a story even if they get it. And I'll give you a good example. Um the President of China came to town the other day, and it was the governor's show completely, the governor's show. There were and I was there and I watched, there was not one thing promoting Hawaii there. And all the advertiser and the Star Bulletin want to do is print about protests and Jeremy Harris went over to China and he was supposedly going to bring some sort of economic uh, you know, benefit and he says, yeah, well we can grow poi in in you know, China now. So, you know, I don't think the papers really want the story. I think they just it's almost machiavellian what they're doing.
[00:29:31] Speaker Speaker 1: So the the main point Andrew that [unintelligible — audio glitch] think I'm hearing is that you're disappointed in the Advertiser and the Star Bulletin, you feel like they're not doing the kind of job that our community can can realistically expect.
[00:29:43] Speaker Andrew: Can I tell you something? I I consider myself pretty connected, and I heard about this task force about, I don't know, a month or two ago. Never heard anything about it since. Um and I was I don't read your papers by the way. I I do not buy the papers. I should stick by that. So, unless I guess you have to be one of your customers.
[00:30:04] Speaker Speaker 1: Okay. Andrew, I appreciate your call. I'm going to give Jerry Burris an opportunity to to comment on that. Jerry, can you hear me?
[00:30:12] Jerry Burris: Jerry, are you there? Yes, I am.
[00:30:14] Speaker Speaker 1: Uh you had a dissatisfied non-customer, somebody doesn't read the paper. But, you know, I think there are a lot of people in this community Jerry that are critical of the newspapers, yours and and the other one. And I'm wondering, do you think that that criticism is is fair, focused, understandable, or just what's your feeling on what you heard Andrew say and the criticism generally that you hear from time to time about the newspapers in Hawaii?
[00:34:40] Jerry Burris: That is extremely fair in in so far as he's saying there's stuff I'd like to read about that they're not reporting. Uh it really perplexes me though that people would think that we would deliberately avoid printing stories that people want to read. I mean that would be self-destructive. You know, I just it just astounds me. If we can figure out that someone, and that was the point of the conference, if there's things that people are interested in, it's in our own best interest to write stories about it. Uh I readily acknowledge that often we we miss the boat with people, that they're interested in something that we're not covering, but to think that we would consciously pursue that agenda [unintelligible — audio glitch] kind of absurd. That would be like we'd be, you know, cutting our own throat.
[00:35:17] Speaker Speaker 1: Tom Brislin, uh journalism professor, does all this ring true to you uh or does Andrew have uh something else that he's saying beside what what Jerry's just commented on?
[00:35:28] Tom Brislin: Well, I I think it's it's difficult uh uh to judge what the papers are are doing if you're not reading them. Uh it it sounds like that when there's an issue uh that may be of interest that that perhaps someone picks up the paper and then they don't like the way it's covered and so that it kind of massages the prejudice, it confirms their their criticism, so they put it down, they say, I'm not going to pick it up again, uh until some other uh uh major event comes along. Uh I I do agree with uh with Jerry that it's certainly within the the paper's interest now that it has generated interest in these ideas, to as he says, uh do do the journalism that's necessary to investigate them because the ideas are essentially headlines, they're they're uh in some ways buzzwords and in others there's a little more detail, but boy, there's just a whole lot that needs to be flushed out and they they certainly have the job cut out. I would suggest that there were more than 50 good ideas generated there, that each uh each of the five groups was generating uh about 30 or 40 ideas that each reporter uh in government or in education take a look at every idea that was generated, not just those that that got the top 10 because there may be one or two there that didn't rise to the surface because of um uh the earlier uh uh comment that there was a time constraint uh and perhaps an idea couldn't be fully expressed uh to try to flush that out too because there were I participated in one of the groups and there were some many many good ideas that didn't make it into the top 10, like number 11, for instance.
[00:37:20] Speaker Speaker 1: Okay. Um next on the line we have Courtney from Kailua and the note says, I was there. Courtney, you were at the conference?
[00:37:29] Speaker Courtney: Yes, I was, and and I'd like to uh commend the advertiser for putting on a conference, and I think the governor's task force conference was uh an important effort in trying to make some changes here. Uh, but uh Peter uh and I spoke a little bit afterwards and I expressed uh that my view about that we may be doing the cart before the horse here, that generally speaking, I think what we need to do is we need to work on a little bit on a vision of where we want Hawaii.
[00:38:00] Speaker Speaker 1: five years from now, or, excuse me, or 10 years from now. And because normally, if we were to start any sort of project or if we were to start a business, we'd normally talk about the vision first. We'd kind of get that in focus. We'd go to some goals and objectives, then we'd work out our mission statement and what we want to do. Finally, would we we would get down to our strategies and our tactics. And what I have seen in both conferences uh is that we keep trying to look for immediate deliverables that we can either accomplish in next year's legislation or somewhere in some immediate uh fashion to change Hawaii around and and uh revitalize our economy. And I really am an optimist, but I don't think it's that I don't think it's that short-term. I think we have to go long-term on it.
[00:38:50] Speaker Speaker 2: Courtney, stay on the line. Um, Peter Adler, I know there have been other attempts by other groups to do what Courtney said was missing so far as these last two efforts that we've been talking about are concerned. What are your thoughts as you listen to Courtney?
[00:39:05] Peter Adler: Well, I actually agree with him. I think uh both in the governor's revitalization task force, as well as in yesterday, as well as many other efforts uh that are underway, the one of the problems is we don't have uh a vision, particularly of the economy, the kind of economy that we want. We don't have a descriptor for it. Um, I I don't think it's always it's not always the starting point for everybody. Some people like to kind of work of the details then work up, and other people like to start at the top for the big picture and work down. So I can accept the fact that different people will come at it different ways. But either way, I think it is a missing piece and um, I would love to see that a simple statement. I don't, you know, I've
[00:39:48] Speaker Speaker 2: Well, let me play devil's advocate for a minute. Last week there was a comment similar to to Courtney's and uh one of our guests, and I don't remember if it was Tom Lepart or or Patricia Louie or or Tom Okamora. But one of them read a vision statement that the task force had come up with. Isn't that what we're talking about?
[00:40:09] Peter Adler: I think they did come up with a vision statement and that helped ground the effort that they went through, which by the way was an inspired effort. To be, you know, I just I believe that I I saw people at their very finest and it was a fine moment when those people But but what are we looking for if not that? I think a little finer grain vision that says, here's our vision of the economy that we want. Here's the type of growth we want, here's the type of growth we do not want. Here are the numbers. Kind of benchmarks. Yeah. And and so I I think that piece is I think it it can come still. There's still room for it to get on, but I think Courtney is absolutely right. It's a missing ingredient.
[00:40:41] Speaker Speaker 2: But what about the K Alahoku process of trying to come up with benchmarks that the Hawaii Community Services Council pushed so hard over the last few years? Isn't that the sort of thing that Courtney and and now you are saying we need?
[00:40:54] Peter Adler: I I agree, but we need some consensus on it. And so we need 400 people saying, yeah, that starts to describe what we want. So again, we have a lot of different pieces floating around in the community. We're looking for some convergence. Typically that happens politically at the legislature, that convergence, but at the end of it, uh sometimes it's not what everybody wanted.
[00:41:13] Speaker Speaker 2: Are we looking for a convergence or or for a leadership? Or is that the same thing?
[00:41:17] Peter Adler: Well, I I think some of both. Some of both. Leaders do they help bring us together.
[00:41:21] Speaker Courtney: Courtney, you started this. I'm going to give you the last word. Well, thank you. Uh, when we're talking about a vision and and Peter defines it as we need one for the economy and that's probably easier than a vision for uh Hawaii generally. Uh, but we we need to do that and then we need to do the game plan. Uh, we need to say, hey, we need a they did a Hawaii 2000 a number of years ago. There's been a discussion of a Hawaii 2020. Uh, those kind of exercises are things we need to go through if we're really going to mobilize our community to make the changes that are necessary to have a viable economy because there are people on the other side who don't want any changes, and they were there at our conference that said, hey, we like it the way things are. We don't want any more people in here, we don't want any more activity, we we want to keep it at that level. So if you're going to some of us feel the change is inevitable and uh, it's probably a good thing and those are the challenges that we all need to face. Okay. But but we need that sort of effort uh somewhere along the way and and Peter's aware and all we that actually attempted to do that uh at some pizza meetings at the uh Innovation Center for about 6 months, and uh, we we got some good ideas and and we got a little bit of direction, but we really didn't get defined uh, what I think we're really talking about, or I'd share that with you.
[00:42:45] Speaker Speaker 2: Well, and and there have been a lot of groups like yours, and I don't know even know if if your group had a had a name, but I know your group was out there regularly meeting, bringing in folks, anyone who was willing to put in the time talking about what kind of vision we as a community wanted and how to get there. Um, how were you left feeling after those many meetings, Courtney?
[00:43:09] Speaker Courtney: Well, I felt like we needed a more concentrated effort, something where where we got a a group of people assigned and we brought in more in the community. Uh I like Peter's idea of getting 400 people together uh to work through this, although I would suggest that's probably a a full-time couple a couple week process maybe or longer to do that, uh so that we get uh a little more variety. Uh most of the people that showed up at my meetings, uh some of them were involved uh in leadership roles in one way or another, but an awful lot of them were uh people that I know which on the techie side, um and so we we were kind of skewed that way. It's pretty easy for us to sit down and say, hey, this is what we need in terms of an an information infrastructure in the state if we want to be world-class in that way. It's a little more difficult for us to approach some of the environmental.
[00:44:02] Peter Adler: Courtney's group had the best name of all the Confabs I've seen, which was called Business Pizza.
[00:44:07] Speaker Speaker 2: Business Pizza, all right. Courtney, thank you. We appreciate you calling this morning. Sure. In case you tuned in late, this is the Price of Paradise radio show. My name is Randy Roth. We're talking about civic journalism and the advertisers tomorrow conference on the future of Hawaii. In the studio is Peter Adler and Tom Brislin. With us by phone is Jerry Burris. Uh, Jerry, we haven't heard from you for a while. Oh, I should add we've got a few open lines and the number is 9558821 or from the neighbor islands 1-800-955-8821. We've got some more callers we're going to get to in just a moment, but Jerry Burris, the editorial page editor from the Advertiser, you've been listening for a while, any thoughts?
[00:44:48] Jerry Burris: I think that the conversation about the vision was really important and and I do think that in a very compressed way, we tried to to organize uh yesterday along those lines. I mean, the first part of the day was was focused on trying to get people thinking of what their vision of Hawaii is. Uh I think uh they had conversations among themselves and I know us talked talked about uh there's reasons that you came here or your ancestors came here. There's reasons that you're here now and staying and that there's reasons that there's things that you'd like to see uh remain for your children, if they want to stay here. And if you could if you could all talk about that and think about that, that maybe that will be the central central vision that that drives uh the specific things you do. Now, that was very compressed and it was in 1 day and obviously you weren't going to get real clear on it. But I think we made an effort to get people thinking uh on the central core values so that they could uh uh have a decent conversation and I think some people got there.
[00:45:42] Speaker Speaker 2: Okay. Let's go to Annette from Iea. Good morning, Annette.
[00:45:46] Speaker Annette: Unfortunately, I did not attend yesterday's conference and to tell you the truth, I think I didn't attend because it sounded a lot like the K Alahoku project. I even reading all the articles leading up to the conference looking at structure the pro uh and purpose and I and I'd like to go back to how is this how was this effort different than the K Alahoku process and why didn't we just infuse civic journalism back into the K Alahoku process versus creating yet another forum because I think we do run the risk of burnout. There are lots of people who go to these things, but after hearing the same same language over and over again and seeing the same faces, there is a tendency to think that we're really just spinning our wheels.
[00:46:30] Speaker Speaker 2: Mhm. Well, let me ask Jerry Burris. Jerry, I think you're still uh on the line and listening. I think there are some people who say, look, when the media tries to put on its own conference, it's naturally going to give it a lot of attention, but that's less attention that it can give to conferences that other groups are putting on and I think I'm hearing Annette say that that the advertiser and the rest of the media maybe didn't give K Alahoku as much coverage as as what the people who participated in that felt was warranted. What's your reaction to that?
[00:47:02] Jerry Burris: Well, I I think probably, I mean, there's to to degree that's true. I mean, you know, when you're very close to something, you tend to think it's it's fascinating. I wouldn't I wouldn't agree that we haven't covered K Alahoku and uh the Hawaii 2020 process and the Pop process and and some of the other things that have happened out there. Uh, they're all part and parcel of of an overall theme of people trying to, you know, re regain some sort of control over where Hawaii is going. Uh, I've been very careful to say over and over again that this was just yet another part of that process of which K Alahoku was part and and the others. I don't know which I mean, there isn't any one group I think that that should take the lead nor do I think that would make sense. But it's a bunch of people in a bunch of different ways, including these Sunday morning conversations that are trying to get people talking to each other and and thinking about where they want to go.
[00:48:09] Speaker Speaker 2: Are those your roosters in the background, Jerry?
[00:48:11] Jerry Burris: No, they're a strange roosters.
[00:48:13] Speaker Speaker 2: Let's go to Bill from Waikiki. Good morning, Bill.
[00:48:15] Speaker Bill: Morning. We have to thank uh Bill Kresnick for his last article. It was the only one that seemed to be investigative that was in that process about what's in store for Hawaii. In fact, there was a letter to the editor yesterday that even congratulated him. However, going to Jerry Burris, uh on numerous occasions there are articles uh that relate to, for example, uh pension taxing. And a person like myself or someone else might call the newspaper and say, Gee, why don't you do a report that shows most states either exempt 1,000, 1,500, 2,500 dollars of any pension income. Here in Hawaii, we're such a small community, we need all the taxes we can get. And yet, not a penny of any pension or annuity or retirement benefits is taxed, and there are many people that have huge voluminous incomes that pay nothing to the community. Doesn't the newspaper feel it's their responsibility to publicize what other states are doing or at least make a comparison to alert the people in this state to realize that a certain group is being given preferential treatment?
[00:49:15] Speaker Speaker 2: Hang on, Bill. Let me first get Peter Adler's reaction because I know this is an issue that at least was discussed with the economic revitalization task force, and I suspect somebody mentioned it yesterday, and yet it didn't percolate to the top of either group's list of of issues that need attention. Peter Adler.
[00:49:32] Peter Adler: Well, my comments a little bit uh I I want to take it to a little different place, which is that one of the problems with conferences like yesterday and K and many others as well and one of the inspired pieces of K Alahoku and the revitalization task force is the huge amount of preparation that goes into those things. We didn't have that yesterday. We had 400 people at different points on 400 learning curves. So, when you do what our caller is suggesting, which is you really kind of dig in, take a look at the numbers, take a look at the data, and you get everybody up to speed, then you can have that conversation and it's an informed conversation. So I I I'm not going to argue about the pension uh piece specifically, but I think the point is good that it's not just conversation, but informed conversation. So I think that's that's one of the goals that we have to keep aspiring to in the community.
[00:50:12] Speaker Speaker 2: Okay. We go to Vincent on Maui. Good morning, Vincent.
[00:50:17] Speaker Vincent: Good morning. You hear me there?
[00:50:19] Speaker Speaker 2: I sure do. You're on the air.
[00:50:21] Speaker Vincent: Okay. How you doing? Good. I, um it's interested me. I I didn't I didn't know all the conference. It's just what I've heard on the radio this morning. And uh, uh, my question is, um, uh, first of all, is the uh are we shooting at the right target? And uh, um, uh a couple points off of that I'd like to make is, uh, number one, um, the Honolulu Advertiser maybe needs to change their name because it's like they're coming out and blatantly say we're we're about advertising. Number one. Number two, um, uh yesterday on yesterday, Hayden Burdisher, I listened to Dr. Elizabeth Satoris, and she was talking about living systems, and made a great point about, uh, you know, if our if we're if our us as a society is uh based on um, driving towards the dollar, isn't it just like uh, the body, the body [unintelligible — audio glitch] making blood for the organs and the organs um uh can afford to have the blood [unintelligible — audio glitch] we'll give them the blood and then if not, well then sorry, and you end up uh, holding on to the blood till somebody, you know, wants it, and then uh, they don't want it, they just toss it away, and in other words, it's built on not providing and procuring a living system. Mhm. And I know, uh I am uh um involved in the organic um of organic farmer, certified organic farmer, and I know about living systems, and and I know the importance of them, and um and it seems as though the living systems, not only in agriculture, but in human health and and are are not being um are not being honored and if I feel if if us as a society would be committed to that, and to the education of people, to understand so this way they can understand about living systems, and how they work, and how they are it is such a delicate balance, then uh [unintelligible — audio glitch] the ills would be um, you know, taking care of as far as where, which direction we're going in.
[00:52:18] Speaker Speaker 2: Vincent, and and I know these aren't identical, but there there was a lot of talk I'm told of of sustainability, a sustainable um Hawaii, and and so I think there was at least a thread of what you're talking about in yesterday's conference. Vincent, we're going to have to move to another person from Maui so that we can get everybody in. James in You bet.
[00:52:38] Speaker James: James in Wailuku, it's your turn, you're on the air. Good morning, Randy, thank you. Mhm. I'd like to add something to the vision of this attempt to come up with something for the people of Hawaii, and strictly from a spiritual view, in so far as every man, woman and child in Hawaii exists in relation to their creator parents. It would be nice if we could make God happy in this issue, and as far as that's concerned, what we need in Hawaii is a new form of government that's good enough for every man, woman and child where we could all be equal politically and equal spiritually, and so the whole world needs the same thing. A new form of government that's good enough for everybody on Earth, with Hawaii as the capital would ensure Hawaii as a foremost place for the people of the world to want to come to see the spiritual and political capital of the world.
[00:53:28] Speaker Speaker 2: James, let me ask you, and and I'm sure you've got a long answer to this, but [unintelligible — audio glitch] short answer to in what way aren't we that way now? We we have a democracy. How are No, we don't have a democracy, I beg your pardon. We don't even have anything close to a democracy because the majority of people don't vote in Hawaii. It's not good enough government for everybody to vote for. Okay, so we've got to get everybody participating if we're going to I'm I'm talking about [unintelligible — audio glitch] capital of a new form of government of the people, by the people, and for the people of the world, independent of the sovereignties of all existing nations, including the United States. Gotcha. Okay. James, we really appreciate your call this morning. Well, folks, we're we're down to the last 10 minutes or so, and you've been listening uh to a lot of different people, but Peter Adler and Tom Brislin are in the studio and Jerry Burris Burris is with us by phone. Uh, Jerry Burris, are you there?
[00:54:13] Jerry Burris: I am there.
[00:54:14] Speaker Speaker 2: You and the horses and the chickens. Uh Uh I'll bet you've got some real wise things to say after listening to all of this. And uh, by the way, why don't you change the name to uh something other than than Advertiser?
[00:54:30] Jerry Burris: We're we're thinking about changing it to the to the Honolulu tomorrow, but uh, you know, people are so used to the old name that We we inherited We inherited that name from a time when that was the purpose of the paper, so I guess we're stuck. Well, and some people would say you might as well put things on top of the table and I suppose you folks have to pay the bills and make a profit to stay in existence, huh? Wouldn't go around very long if we didn't have advertising in there. I can say that. Well, whatever we call it, tell us uh thoughts from the newspaper. What uh what's the advertisers thinking at this stage of our conversation?
[00:55:00] Jerry Burris: Well, one of the things that's come up a little bit in this morning's conversation, and also came up yesterday at the conference was was uh and I was kind of honored by it, that people people expect something from the paper. You know, there was complaints that you guys talk too much about problems and not enough about solutions. You talk too much about conflict and not about cooperation, and uh it's sort of odd me to think that they even that they still have an expectation that we can do a better job, that they expect us to help them have their conversation with each other and with the community. And so, I mean, what I got out of it was kind of a kind of a renewed sense of of what our job is, and and a commitment that we better we better do it right or people will be disappointed in us. Mhm.
[00:55:44] Speaker Speaker 2: Stay on the line. Tom Brislin, you're our University of Hawaii journalism professor, and um, noted expert on civic journalism, which this is an example of. Uh, what do you think?
[00:55:57] Tom Brislin: Well, it's interesting that the the title of the newspaper used to be the Commercial Advertiser. Which uh takes it to to another step. So perhaps we should congratulate the dropping of of one side. I'm listening to uh various callers and I find it very interesting that one caller says, I want my newspaper to be covering uh important international issues like the the President of of China visiting and what this means for US China relations. Other callers say, I want my newspaper to cover more grassroots uh uh issues. They're only uh covering the usual suspects and not the people who who really uh work and toil in the in the trenches in Hawaii. And another caller that that says, I want my newspaper to cover these uh economic issues and let Hawaii know where it stands in relationship to the US. I think that's what really calls for the need for civic journalism is this feeling that
[00:57:00] Speaker Speaker 1: our news media, newspapers, and television stations alike, are detached from the community, that they need to reconnect to the community. Please, find out what it is we want, and then deliver it to us, and what happened yesterday was one way of approaching that. Peter mentioned the word focus group, which is also used, and this being a larger version of that. Jerry mentioned polling, which is another way of eliciting reader response. There are other things that could be done, these ideas could be taken on the road and people could go out to advertise or people could go out and have regional meetings and invite people to come in for a couple hours and give them coffee and say, well, what do you think about these 10 ideas?
[00:57:50] Speaker Speaker 1: How do you see them pursued? There's a number of ways that news media can reconnect with the community, but I think what we've heard is a lot of evidence of the need to reconnect and some fairly successful strategies, this conference being one in an attempt to do that.
[00:58:07] Speaker Speaker 2: Randy, can I make a point here?
[00:58:08] Speaker Speaker 1: Well, if you insist. No, I'm kidding.
[00:58:10] Speaker Speaker 2: But one of the callers they said, why don't we apply our energy to, for instance, the Kahalu'u project rather than our own and I think that's that's a good point, and one that we will keep in mind and it's just that there are many places that we should be looking at more intensely and and certainly our own isn't the only one. I mean, we've given extensive coverage just a couple weeks ago to the economic task force work and things will come up in the future that will also give coverage to so I think you have to look at it as as in totality and not just this Sunday and that's the whole thing. We don't begin to profess that the only story in town now is what came out of this one conference.
[00:58:48] Speaker Speaker 3: This is Peter here, the question of what we want from our newspapers is always an interesting one because they are a mirror of ourselves in many ways. Um, even though there are many people at the control board of the newspaper, um it's a reflection of who we are and what we are as a society. What I want from the newspaper is to make sure that it doesn't land in the mud puddle on Sunday mornings and gets into the mailbox, and I think I've solved that problem, Jerry.
[00:59:13] Speaker Speaker 1: You're the first one who has.
[00:59:14] Speaker Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I, but but I, I really do, I do think that the, I, I think the advertiser really should be congratulated for taking the initiative to pull such a meeting together. I think the other forums that are going on, that have gone on and that continue to go on, are part of a very vibrant and vital community. That, this is what communities do. They talk with each other, they argue with each other, they get together and they they uh thrash it out and they try to bring things to some conclusion and they try and take care of each other in a healthy way, and it's not always comfortable, but I think this is part of a larger fabric.
[00:59:47] Speaker Speaker 1: Peter Adler, I, I don't want to embarrass you, but I consider you a state treasure, a treasure to all of us in the sense that you've got an ability to to bring folks together and get them talking in ways that I think otherwise wouldn't happen. Share a trick or two of the trade. How how do you get these sorts of conversations going where, for example, the people with the Economic Revitalization Task Force go in describing themselves as as not just skeptical, but cynical and they come out feeling like they've really done something. And I know most of the people at yesterday's conference felt like something good had happened. How do you get that to happen so that other people can can do some of the things that you've been doing?
[01:00:31] Speaker Speaker 3: I don't know that there is one trick. I think that there are uh a lot of things that go into planning a meeting like yesterday, or planning a task force, or planning a Kahalu'u gathering, or planning a pop meeting. And so some of it lies in the preparation. I think also uh having a conversation like yesterday's, start slow and take a little bit of time and resist the temptation to go straight to the solutions. So you take the time up front to kind of ground the conversation, let people know each other, talk with each other, share, you know, kind of feel each other out a little bit, and then go straight to [unintelligible — audio glitch] stuff later on.
[01:01:06] Speaker Speaker 1: I've got a feeling when you invited Nineoa Thompson to speak, you had some sense for how his experience was a metaphor for what you wanted that particular group to accomplish.
[01:01:16] Speaker Speaker 3: Well, actually, you know, the planning for this Nineoa was part of the planning group, as was Jerry Burrus, as was Frank Chong, uh, Holly Henderson, Jim Gaddy, a number of us did that, and we had these same conversations in our planning sessions, four, five planning sessions. And uh, they were wonderful. They were wonderful. I mean, they were quite uh, from the heart, you know. I mean, we talked about where we came from, and I know I talked about uh, the Polynesian ancestors, uh, that uh are in his lineage and where they come from and some of the the terrible things that have happened in that background. And we talked about uh, why we have come here and why he has stayed, so we kind of had the same conversation.
[01:01:52] Speaker Speaker 3: And I think that that's part of what uh infused in the design that we we did something that we had done ourselves.
[01:01:58] Speaker Speaker 1: Okay. Jerry Burris, uh you've got an opportunity for just a a few seconds, closing remarks, what do you think?
[01:02:04] Speaker Speaker 2: Well, [unintelligible — audio glitch] want to echo what you said about uh about Peter. I think that he was tremendously instrumental in making this happen. And I just uh I just want to say that I came away from that conference with a real uh really pleased with the with the optimism and the hope and the the kind of uh upbeat feeling that people had at the end of it and I hope that not just us, but other groups that are working toward these projects that they have can can capitalize on that feeling.
[01:02:31] Speaker Speaker 1: Okay. Tom Brislin, uh you've got a minute to just tie everything all nice and neatly together, help us make sense of what happened yesterday and what it means so far as our our tomorrows are concerned. Well, I like Peter too.
[01:02:45] Speaker Speaker 2: Oh, come on now. Enough is enough.
[01:02:47] Speaker Speaker 1: I really want to go on record as saying when the headphone doesn't even fit anymore, just When uh when Peter talked about the economic uh task force of uh people who were just downright cynical coming in and and leaving with with a sense of empowerment enhancement, I will give you my observation from participating yesterday and my journalistic colleagues who were there uh began the morning in much the same way. This sort of macho detached objectivity of, okay, we have to work Saturday and I don't know what the heck this thing is going to bring about, and they they held back uh during the first stages. They didn't participate in the kind of getting to know you activity.
[01:03:29] Speaker Speaker 1: They jumped in later, uh doing their job as journalists to cover, but I noticed a lot of them went through some degree of transformation just listening to so many voices coming up with so many ideas with so much energy and so much spirit, that I think it it also had the the effect of of transforming journalists as well. Okay. Well, folks, that's um Tom Brislin, Peter Adler, and Jerry Burris talking about civic journalism and the Advertiser's conference on uh the future of Hawaii. The producer of Pop Radio is Susie Roth, our technical wizard this morning was Ryan Campos Post. You've been listening to the Price of Paradise Radio Show. I'm Randy Roth. Aloha.