Women in Politics
Price of Paradise · Hawaii Public Radio · aired 1995-11-12
Guests: Mazie Hirono (Lieutenant Governor of Hawaii); Nanci Kreidman (Executive Director, Domestic Violence Clearinghouse)
Duration: 1:09:31

[00:00:00] Diane Chang: This is The Price of Paradise Radio Show, and I'm Diane Chang, senior editor and editorial page editor of the Honolulu Star Bulletin. I'll be your guest moderator and host today, sitting in for Randy Roth. Pop Radio is broadcast live each Sunday morning from 8:00 to 9:00 on KHPR and KKUA. It will be rebroadcast again, Sunday evenings from 8:00 to 9:00 on KIFO. And our topic today is women in politics. Joining me in the studio this morning are two people whom I respect very much. Nancy Creedman is the executive director of the Domestic Violence Clearing House and Legal Hotline. She also serves on the board of directors of the Hawaii Women's Political Caucus and is a member of the Women's Coalition, which works with women legislators to develop a package of bills for introduction during the legislative session.
[00:00:53] Diane Chang: Mazie Hirono is the lieutenant governor of the state of Hawaii and is the highest ranking woman in state politics. She served in the State House from 1980 to 1994. To make a comment or to ask a question of Mazie, Nancy, or myself, call 955-8821, and neighbor Islanders can call collect. Welcome and good morning, Mazie and Nancy.
[00:01:17] Mazie Hirono: Good morning.
[00:01:18] Diane Chang: The topic of today's program is women in politics, but it could very well be titled the lack of women in politics. In the Honolulu City Council, only two of nine council members are women, in the State House, only 10 of 51 representatives, and in the Senate, only five of 25 senators. So I guess our first question maybe we can talk about is in this age of so-called equal opportunity between the sexes, why is there such a disparity in gender when it comes to our political leadership?
[00:01:49] Mazie Hirono: Go ahead, Mazie. I'll start since I'm... I think that we may have equal opportunity, but we certainly don't have equal results, and there are a number of reasons for that. I think one very uh, practical reason is that we don't have enough women, I believe, in Hawaii who run for office. If you look at the the number of women candidates in the last election as well as say the 1992 elections, you'll see that we don't have an overwhelming percentage of women who run. And that's what you have to do. First, you have to run before you can get elected. We need more women to run for office. And as I say, you know, the the reasons women don't run for office may be uh, varied, it could be cultural, it could be that they're they're working to pay their bills, etc., and and so uh, that's why Nancy and I often have gone to uh different forums and we encourage women to run.
[00:02:49] Mazie Hirono: We know the practicalities of running for office are not entirely uh uh easy.
[00:02:54] Diane Chang: You know, that that's that's an interesting question because um in uh some of the reading that I've done over the years, uh the research suggests that women uh like and ask for more training and more preparation uh in order to run, rather than men who just decide I'm going to run for office and then go for it. Women tend to approach uh projects and undertakings, uh endeavors like running for office in a very, very different way. It's also a big stretch, I think, for a woman to see herself as a a political leader or an elected official. Um still the domain is women, you know, are working more for sure. But whether or not we uh hold positions of power or leadership in the community, still represents another uh another jump.
[00:03:36] Diane Chang: Why don't we talk a little bit about this, Nancy, um about the lack of women in political roles and how does that affect issues like education and women's rights and social services. What does the lack of women in uh decision-making positions do to those kinds of issues?
[00:03:53] Nanci Kreidman: Well, I think it makes a big difference. I think women come to uh these issues with very different life experience, and I think that it's life experience often that uh guides decision-making and and leadership styles. Um so that when we don't have women in positions of uh decision-making, um the responsiveness to issues that, for example, my life work has been, you know, devoted to, uh the responsiveness is is somewhat smaller. And I'm always very excited about the news that more women are running for office because I feel like uh together we can understand uh the challenges and the obstacles and the and the um crimes, particularly, in a way that that men don't. Issues like childcare, again, the research shows that issues like childcare and um elderly care and parenting and uh rape and other kind homelessness and poverty are things that women can understand in ways that many, many men haven't had to face.
[00:04:46] Nanci Kreidman: So that when women are in positions of of leadership, they're receptive to ideas and innovations in ways that men may not be.
[00:04:54] Mazie Hirono: I think that that's really true, Nancy, because you can be a a very articulate and strong advocate for these kinds of issues, but unless there's a critical mass, and I can't tell you with a magic number of that critical mass, but unless you have a critical mass of of women, say, in decision-making positions, also chairing uh certain committees, etc., you can you can be a really strong advocate, but that doesn't mean that you're going to be able to accomplish as much. I think clearly when the House and the Senate women leaders got together and created the Women's Caucus, that really was a magnet and it was kind of a critical mass at that point for uh uh efforts to work together with women in the community organizations, such as Nancy's, to push forward a uh an agenda of bills that that address domestic violence and and a number of those kinds of issues, and the Women's Caucus was highly successful in getting these bills through in the last, say, five years or so.
[00:06:00] Diane Chang: Lieutenant Governor, in during the budget cutting process, I know there was some feeling that because you were a woman, you perhaps you should have been more vocal in terms of defending cuts on social services, and people were saying, why isn't Mazie doing something or saying something? So there was that perception that because you're a woman, you should have been much more outspoken in defense of this.
[00:06:27] Mazie Hirono: That's that's one of [unintelligible — audio glitch] things that certainly I get a lot of that kind of maybe eyebrow raising, etc., but as I say, uh you know, the the director of the Department of Housing and Social Services, Susan Chandler, is a woman. Does that mean that somehow she ought to just do things on the basis that she is a woman? Certainly, we we have different life experiences, but in the decision-making process, it's not one where you kind of take on the mantle of a particular group, etc. in that fashion. It doesn't, the dynamics of the decision-making doesn't quite work like that.
[00:07:12] Nanci Kreidman: But from a community perspective, we expect that.
[00:07:16] Mazie Hirono: I know you do.
[00:07:17] Nanci Kreidman: We we think of Susan Chandler and Mazie Hirono and the other women in leadership as being our voice. And so we do have And we do have a voice.
[00:07:24] Mazie Hirono: No, our voice. Yeah, your voice, yes, and I think we do reflect reflect those concerns. However, we're not, you know, we're just we're we're doing our best, but it is not uh quite as uh uh successful as I would like, and I think again, that you need a more of a critical mass. And then from a practical standpoint, a lot of a lot of the decisions relating to the budget affected, I have to agree, affected the purchase of service providers more and that has a lot to do with the inflexibility in the budgeting process and the the where we could make the cuts, and unfortunately, a lot of the organizations that got money from the legislature and from the state, are those that that provided services to to women and, you know, others.
[00:08:21] Nanci Kreidman: I just want to mention, um, those are two different issues though, I think they're two really, they're good issues. One is the critical mass, and I think that's that's an issue that that we we need to recognize in terms of uh recruiting more women to run for office so that there are more of us articulating, you know, certain points of view. Um but it is true that, you know, from a community point of view, when I think of the the women that I know and love, who are in positions of power, I think, oh goody. You know, there's a woman there, she'll be able to kind of understand what we're saying and bring our point of view.
[00:08:52] Nanci Kreidman: Um, not even so much uh during this budget cutting process, but always at the legislature. I always go to the women that I've worked with for for years and say, you know, we're counting on you, we need you, because we're not there. We need you to say what you know to be the truth, and what you've heard from us saying out on the what we see out on the streets in terms of women's lives and children's lives. Because if you're not going to say it, the men certainly aren't going to say it.
[00:09:23] Mazie Hirono: When uh the Women's Caucus came came into being, that was a moment of of, you know, true, you know, delight for for those of us in the community that the women were representing a critical mass and were able to understand. I think I think clearly in the legislative arena, there's a model for that kind of advocacy, and the models often follow the creation of a Women's Caucus, etc. There's not quite that kind of model yet in the executive branch. There are very few women in the executive branch, and it's uh it's I think in arena that we need more women in, and we need to have uh we need to figure out how to to have our voices have a lot more weight in that in that way, and it took a while for us to do that, I think in the legislative arena.
[00:10:15] Diane Chang: Well, Mazie, let's talk a little bit about your role, your Lieutenant Governor, the second highest position in the state, and Annel Amaral is vice speaker of the House. Um, are these really positions of power or are they sort of like window dressing to show the world that I don't think
[00:10:28] Mazie Hirono: Hey, you didn't let me finish the question.
[00:10:30] Diane Chang: To show the world that um women do occupy leadership roles.
[00:10:39] Mazie Hirono: She's in leadership, but she's Okay. Well, okay. So, you know, is this Do you really have what kind of clout do you have? I mean, you're the Lieutenant Governor.
[00:10:48] Diane Chang: What, I mean, tell me.
[00:10:51] Mazie Hirono: Well, as they say, I'm a heartbeat away, you know. If anything happens to the Governor, folks, I'm it.
[00:10:57] Diane Chang: In fact, aren't you acting governor right now?
[00:10:59] Mazie Hirono: Yes, I'm acting governor right now.
[00:11:00] Diane Chang: Oh well, we're honored here by your presence.
[00:11:05] Mazie Hirono: For the Lieutenant Governor, I think that uh any role that I play uh has a great deal to do with the relationship with the Governor. Since the Lieutenant Governor doesn't have uh any statutorily mandated responsibilities, the election's functions having been removed in this last legislative election. As I say, uh the the statute and the constitution is quite broad. The Lieutenant Governor does uh basically what the Governor requests or what the legislature mandates by statute. That's very broad. That's one of the reasons that that uh I wanted to bring to bear my own experiences uh to this administration and and be a part of the team. And so I discussed with the Governor what I can be doing in this coming session and in this administration in the coming years.
[00:11:58] Mazie Hirono: Clearly, the budget and the economic situation is really important. So I we chatted and I said I'd really like to focus on economic development and tourism, and he said, great. And so that's what I've been doing. I think from that standpoint, the more the more substantively I'm involved in these issues and uh and and work on these issues with the private sector people, the more I think that [unintelligible — audio glitch] we I talk about models, right? And I think the model of a Lieutenant Governor who's not a mere appendage is one that we haven't seen very much in this state or in in many other states. That's the kind of model I'm I'm pushing forward and I'd like people to start thinking about the Lieutenant Governor as very much a part of the administration in a substantive way.
[00:12:51] Diane Chang: Nancy, do you think that male and female politicians are judged differently by their peers in the public?
[00:12:56] Nanci Kreidman: Oh, definitely. I I think men and women are judged differently uh in every role they play. Um my guess is uh or my experience is that uh harder harsher judge judgments are placed on women. Um I think that women have to work twice as hard to achieve uh as much and are, you know, judged by harsher standards. Um, I also think that that results in uh the potential at least for greater disappointments. I mean, I'm much more disappointed by a woman leader than I am by a man leader, because my That's a lot. The bad news, because my expectations are that she's going to like do the right thing. I'm much more used to being disappointed by men not always doing the right thing.
[00:13:41] Nanci Kreidman: And I I don't know whether I speak for everybody for sure, but um that's been my experience, that when I, you know, I see what a woman leader is doing or a woman legislator is doing and it's not exactly what I would hope from her, I feel much more disappointed. But you know what else is really good about that is I'm really able to talk with her about that. Um, so so incredibly important, but I think that I do have a relationship with some of the women that that in our community who hold positions of power, and if something has happened, I can go to them and say, God, I was really confused by that.
[00:14:15] Nanci Kreidman: Which is also pretty unusual. You know, mostly people don't give a whole lot of feedback to one another about what did they do or what effect did it have. Um, but I think we have to start developing those kinds of relationships and communication so that the and the research also shows that women uh legislators, elected officials have said that the input from their constituents and from citizens as a whole have um had more meaning for them in their decision-making and in their agendas than than men have. So I think we should take the opportunity to go visit our legislators and talk to them and let them know how it is that we felt about certain things or what we wanted from them or whatever.
[00:14:52] Nanci Kreidman: So I'd encourage everybody this next session to play a more pronounced role.
[00:14:58] Mazie Hirono: Mazie, I remember that you were a cohost of the Sterling Scholar Awards earlier this year, and you were introduced by your cohost Stan Cook, um as the prettiest lieutenant governor in the nation. Of all the adjectives he could have used, he said you were the prettiest lieutenant governor. Now, what's your reaction to comments like that? I guess that was the ultimate compliment, wasn't it?
[00:15:22] Diane Chang: This um just a reminder that this is The Price of Paradise Radio Show. Our topic is women in politics, and our guests are Lieutenant Governor Mazie Hirono and Nancy Creedman of the Domestic Violence Clearing House and Legal Hotline. I'm Diane Chang of the Honolulu Star Bulletin. To ask a question or to make a brief comment, call 955-8821, and neighbor Islanders, you can call collect. Um, let me just toss this question out. Why is it in Hawaii that uh people don't tend to vote along gender lines as much as they vote along ethnic lines. Mazie, what do you think?
[00:16:01] Mazie Hirono: I don't I don't think that people vote along gender lines uh just about everywhere in the country. There are certain places where the gender distinctions or that gender gap has played a role in in politics and in in elections. One springs to mind is Illinois with the election of Senator Carol Mosley Brown, and there I think there there definitely was a manifestation of this uh the women and the men's vote. But throughout the country that's not the case. I think that that the voters identify more along other types of uh categories than the male female categories. But you know, with what's going on in Congress with Newt Gingrich and some of the uh issues that they're pushing, there some of the research and the polling indicates that there may be more of this kind of a gender uh difference in reflected in the polls this coming election.
[00:16:58] Mazie Hirono: It remains to be seen, I think.
[00:17:00] Nanci Kreidman: You know, I think also that um there it is still uh a process of of becoming that women that we think of ourselves as a group with any kind of power or authority. I think that there are some of us who, you know, work together in pretty significant ways and think of ourselves as a group, but I don't think throughout the community women see themselves as being part of a gender as much as being part of an ethnic group or part of a religious group or part of a political party in the same ways.
[00:17:30] Diane Chang: Do you think when women uh run for office, they have to really look at their image and maybe even soften their image or change their image when they're running? I guess Mazie, you could talk a little bit about that because you had that big campaign.
[00:17:42] Mazie Hirono: Look what happened to Hillary Clinton.
[00:17:45] Nanci Kreidman: Yeah, I was And Marsha Clark. I mean, I think when women are public, they are definitely under scrutiny. I mean, you you asked that question earlier, what happens, you know, what what happens to women, what's the difference? Standards are.
[00:17:56] Mazie Hirono: I think when you run for statewide office, running for president, any of those kinds of uh offices that male or female, you're you come under extreme scrutiny. However, one of the interesting things that happened in when I was running for statewide offices as a woman candidate, you get a sort of interesting little variations of the kinds of criticisms you get. And I think for with the governor, he got he got certain types of criticisms. For me, but I was criticized about what I wore, you know, that, and I don't think very many men get that that kind of criticism.
[00:18:33] Diane Chang: What you wore in in what sense, what was wrong?
[00:18:37] Mazie Hirono: If I went to the neighbor Islands, I, if I were dressed in a certain way, they'd say, what? Does she This isn't Honolulu, you know, or, uh I happened to like uh certain designers and um I try to encourage and and support local designers, and many of the my clothing has an uh an Asian influence.
[00:19:00] Speaker Speaker 1: this but as not because I was trying to tell but hey, I'm Japanese, you know. I happen to like and everybody knows that. M And so the things like, well, why is she wearing these uh oriental type of clothes? And I said, well, gee, I happen to like them. I have to be myself. So they thought you were trying to exploit your Japanese heritage for the Japanese voter to appeal to the Japanese voter I think that might have been the what was going through their minds, but I never had some of this kind of But the point is that people were making comments about what she was wearing, I mean. Were people saying that, you know, Ben's ties weren't right? Probably not. Or his suit wasn't quite right. I never had this kind of a commentary when I was running in in the state legislature. I think that when as they say when you run for for an office like a statewide office, everybody thinks that they can just uh make give you this kind of all kinds [unintelligible — audio glitch] feedback. And as a woman, I think you get different types of reactions that uh we may not have been prepared for running uh for the state house offices or even the state Senate. I think you have to agree that when you were running with Ben Cayetano, that you are a real asset in terms of softening his very What what word should I use? Well, just about anybody next to Ben would be considered. True. Kidding, Ben, if you're listening. He's out of state, we don't care. Well, frankly, as a legislator, I had an uh I I think I had a reputation as being pretty feisty and and uh very um uh very much an advocate and not holding back, etcetera. But you know, part of uh part of the concern of my campaign committee was, well, how do we make you more approachable? I always thought of myself as being approachable. So there there are those kind of discussions that went on.
[00:20:53] Speaker Speaker 2: Uh I don't know if you remember this, but I did a column once during the campaign and I I talked about your self-impact psyche and I said that what was I was talking about how people perceive them, and I thought I wrote and I I don't know what you thought, but I said that I think people thought Pat Psyche was a little too unfeminine in terms of how she came across and they had a problem with that, whereas with you and your wonderful Japanese outfits outfits and you looked very feminine. that they really liked that or they could relate to that. So that came across much better.
[00:21:31] Speaker Speaker 1: I think that voters want to know that you're approachable. And I Pat psyche uh I I think that somehow whoever did her things just didn't make her uh approachable seem approachable enough. There there has to be that element, I I think, and for a lot of women who are so focused on substance all the time, I I had some uh adjusting to recognize that voters need to feel like they can talk to you or that somehow you you don't have this huge barrier between yourself and them. And something that I had to attend to a lot more than I had in the past.
[00:22:13] Speaker Speaker 3: Okay. Well, let's go to our callers. We have Loretta from Palolo. Hi, Loretta. Thanks for calling in. Hi. Hi. Hi, Nancy. Hi. How are you? Good morning. Good morning. I was I was listening to your discussion of, um, women um voting along uh gender lines as opposed to party lines. Hold on a sec. Yeah, honey, I'm on the phone. Uh Morning, Hannah. Good morning. Um, and I was wondering what you what you thought was the most divisive issue for women. What what it is, as as Nancy put it, that prevents prevents women from thinking uh as a block or block voting. Um, whether it would be the choice issue or whether it would be um the the fear that or the resentment that we're supposed to care about child childcare just because we're women. I mean, what what do you think is the most divisive issue?
[00:23:06] Speaker Speaker 1: Nancy, what do you what do you think? I I don't know whether it's a question of uh divisiveness as much as uh identity. I I still think, you know, that that there are some of us um who think and move and um are attracted to to women for the ways in which we think and and move. And then there are a lot of other women who whose lives are just um kind of uh sort of more routine and they're going about the business of of raising their families and dragging themselves back and forth from work and their identity or their identification with other women is much less developed. And I I don't know whether possibly also when when um you are identifying along gender lines or religious lines, uh I mean, or ethnic lines or religious lines as well, and if those things are more pronounced in your own um identity, they may interfere with your ability to come together with a group of women. Let's say you belong to a a church, for example, which is anti-choice, and um other women are speaking a pro-choice issues, that may serve to alienate you from women as a whole. And you may then generalize, too, and I'm sort of making this up as I go along as sort of I develop the theory, but then you may think that um you have therefore less in common with women in in other ways because of this very distinct way and and in that regard causes some divisiveness. But I don't know if it's uh a person wouldn't um immediately identify it as being divisive just not as well-developed, is I guess what I'd like to think. And that and that and that that gives us an opportunity to develop it more, that if we can talk to one another and say the ways in which our lives are similar and the ways in which we need um some adjustments to be made in community life and business life and government life that we can become more of a voting block.
[00:25:00] Speaker Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really true. That's really true. I remember when the uh HGEA strike was going on and uh there were a number of women in my office who were uh government employees and they were I mean, they were they're they're a generation older than me. They're very traditional, I mean, and you would never think of these women as thinking along feminist lines. And when but it was amazing that when they began to talk about how hard their lives were and how much they resented being paid so little for so long and um being paid and they were very aware that they were paid less than men. There was this huge explosion of uh of energy and it was it was kind of it was kind of wild. I never really thought that would be there.
[00:25:40] Speaker Speaker 1: Those are precisely the things I think we have to develop. Yeah. So that women can see that there are things about the way we live that can stand to be changed, and only when we work together and become one voice will those things change. Yeah, but don't you think it's just so so scary for for women to um I mean, people are so afraid of the word feminist and and it's so scary for women to to uh like those women who were in my office. I mean, they they became so animated and then you sort of see them backing away from from like when they realized how mad they got they sort of back away from it sort of quickly like, oh, I shouldn't be talking like this. Did you even been good to me? I shouldn't be talking like this.
[00:26:18] Speaker Speaker 3: did you Have you did you have something you wanted to add to Loretta's comment? I think that that sometimes using labels such as feminist etcetera, that can be off-putting to to women who don't think of themselves in that way, but they've had we've all had lives experiences that are so similar and maybe it's just identifying them in ways that we can all say, hey, you know, it clicks. But uh certain words are I think, you know, uh uh off-putting, but the experience is is very common and identifying that those common experiences in ways that we can say, we support we support what you guys are doing and clearly HGEA most of the members are women and they were basically they were the people who were the backbone of that strike. And for them to have come to that point of political action where they recognize that they were being treated unfairly uh and and to carry through on that though, because you'd hate to see them come to that point of recognition and then they step away from it and then you just kind of go back to a the old, if I don't want to insult anyone but anyone but it is very easy to get back into uh a routine and not uh push yourselves, not to push the envelope further [unintelligible — audio glitch] terms of activism.
[00:27:44] Speaker Speaker 1: Well, there's a certain amount of numbing that I think has to take place. I mean, knowing what we know and the uh discrimination that takes place, whether it's overt [unintelligible — audio glitch] covert um and the unequal treatment and the I mean all the things that we kind of know without uh listing them all. There's a certain amount of numbing that we all have to do in order to cope because otherwise it's just so patently unfair that there'd be a revolution. So, short of that, we have to do whatever coping we can and take smaller steps that are more comfortable for the for the masses where the the women in in your office can come together and see that, yeah, there are some things that probably, you know, we would desire to be changed as well, but taking any giant steps is way too scary or taking on any big labels is is way too scary. But people don't realize that you can be a feminist and a mother or a feminist and an employee or a feminist and a Catholic or a, you know, any number of other things at the same time. Mhm. Well, thanks for calling Loretta. Oh, my pleasure. Thank you. Okay. We'll go to our next caller, Martha from Hawaii Kai. Hi, Martha. Hi, good morning. I'm so glad to speak to all of you together. Um, I have an idea. I've been attending the benchmark uh um program where the children of Hawaii have gotten together and expressed their views for the future in the year 20 2010 and 25. And they want to have indicators and benchmarks to go by and they have met with adults. And I worked in the economics group and I'd like to suggest that if we're going to have changes in our economic system at all, we're going to have to encourage the children and the women to speak up and from their viewpoint because the men are speaking from their uh ingrained experience uh which is only normal, uh due to the fact that they work everyday and these things, and this is part of their life. But I would like to see um all of you people get together and find a way so that women and children can express their opinions separately and men can express their opinions and then bring them together because um I just noticed that women had more um unusual and a far reaching far reaching ideas than men did in in the discussions. Mhm. And that because women have experience of uh nurturing and and running their homes and know a lot about economics without knowing they know it. I think that some of the practical experiences that women have in everyday life should be brought to bear and with and her position. One of the things we talked about was not depending on tourism only, that we need more sustainable diversified agriculture and uh uh businesses and that um some of them should be very small, and there should be some kind of a way to help uh small people get started get credit, and the way they're doing in in um developing countries where maybe somebody is able to borrow $200 to start a little business, they want to pay it back but they have access to something they couldn't do otherwise. Uh thank you for listening. Thank you for calling Martha very much.
[00:31:13] Speaker Speaker 1: One comment Martha one comment Okay, there it is again. As you're because you're a woman, thanks for noticing But Martha, you'd be glad to know that most of the business formations that now are in small business and most of the small businesses are being formed by women, and women are coming out in in huge numbers to create their own businesses, to be their own bosses. So this is this is an exciting documented now trend if you want to call it for business formations. I think it's great. I'd like to suggest that everybody read uh the article in the October uh Atlantic monthly which is why is America down when the GNP is up and it explains how we measure everything by the way money moves instead of the way that money um is involved in the lives of people and in the use of the Earth resources.
[00:38:00] Speaker Frances: The only thing that counts is the corporate vote. Corporations vote by means of their campaign contributions. By the time we get to the election polling vote, what we get is to choose among corporate America's candidates. It's a closed election and they're the ones that are calling the shots. And we get to choose from slate A, the Democrats.
[00:38:26] Diane Chang: Okay, but what is your question to the
[00:38:28] Speaker Frances: What if we struck? What if we struck in protest of the campaign. Shut down the polling shut down the polling booths on the day of the election, refuse to work.
[00:38:40] Diane Chang: Okay. Well, what would happen? I want to tell I want the Lieutenant Governor to tell me what the backup system is for that case. Okay. Well, thanks for calling, Francis.
[00:38:50] Speaker Frances: No answer. Yeah, yeah. Thanks for calling and we'll get the answer. No answer. Doesn't she have the answer?
[00:38:57] Diane Chang: I'm not clear on the the point that you're making, uh, I sense your frustration. I don't agree with you that all of the people who run for office are mere puppets of the the corporate structure. I don't consider myself that and I don't think that there are a lot of women and others who got elected across the nation and consider themselves mere puppets of the corporate structure. So I think maybe your basic premise is one that needs to be, uh, uh, you know, re-evaluated. Re-evaluated. That's that's a good word. So, I I think a lot of people, yes, they they there is a crisis of confidence. Uh, they they would like their elected officials to be much more responsive. I think that the the kind of people who are running for office, many of them, uh, understand that that's what motivates them to run for office. And I think that if more women ran for office, that you'd get the kind of responsiveness in government that you're seeking. I think that seems to be the underlying basis for your suggestion.
[00:39:59] Diane Chang: Okay. Well, thanks for for calling, Francis. Uh, this is the Price of Paradise Radio Show. Uh, the topic is women in politics. And our guests are Lieutenant Governor, Maisie Hirono, and Nancy Creedman of the Domestic Violence Clearing House and Legal Hotline. I'm Diane Chang of the Honolulu Star-Bulletin. To ask a question or to make a brief comment, brief is the keyword here, folks. Call 955-8821 and neighbor Islanders can call collect. Next, we go to Alice Ann in Haula. Hi, Alice Ann.
[00:40:29] Speaker Alice Ann: Hi. Good morning. Good morning, Nancy. Good morning, Al. Morning. I wouldn't usually listen to the radio at 8:00 in the morning either, but I heard this program advertisement and I thought, Boy, I don't want to miss that. Um, first of all, I'm in my 50s. I have a daughter who's in her 30s. And I had the experience a couple of months ago, going into her office in Honolulu, and discovering that all of the executives there were women in the corporate office. And I was profoundly moved by it. It just it seemed so exciting to me, although I've known it intellectually, I hadn't had the experience of that change. And it was it's then it seems curious to me that a change that has occurred in corporate America and in professional America, my daughter's friends are attorneys and women attorneys, women doctors, women executives. When I went to my high school reunion, none of the women had become attorneys or uh doctors or uh professionals. And I wonder how many girls in high school are student body presidents. When I was in junior high school, um the student body president was a man, a boy. He became student body president in high school. He became mayor of Portland, Oregon and eventually he was governor. No girls ever ran for president of the student body, and I don't know I wonder if that has translated into politics, into political change at the level of grade school and junior high school and high school. I'm just curious if you know if there are women, if there are girls who are student body presidents in in this state.
[00:42:12] Nanci Kreidman: Oh, Nancy, Nancy wants to respond to that. Take a go at this. Um, my daughter goes to Wla Elementary and, um, I noticed that at the end of last school year, there were uh quite a few little girls running for uh secretary and Treasurer at the very least, and vice president. I didn't notice that there were any girls running for the top. So I think your question is a is a critical one, and and it goes back to kind of what we started the show with, which is, it's more of a stretch for women to see themselves and even girls, see themselves as leaders, I think. And, um, I think also that the research is still showing when you look at girls in junior high and high school levels, uh age groups, uh what are their aspirations? Too many of them are still talking about being, uh, nurturers and stay-at-home wives and moms and so are the boys. When boys are asked, you know, what do you see for yourself and your family, they see themselves married to a woman who is going to maybe work part-time. Now, I don't know where these kids, I I think they must be watching too much television or something, but it's frightening for me that the transformation that you're describing in your daughter's office and in in our agency and I think in some pockets of the community, isn't trans- translating into, uh, too many of the the families and too many of the homes and too many of the institutions in our community. I mean I think we got to sort of start from the bottom.
[00:43:44] Mazie Hirono: So, what are you going to tell your daughter?
[00:43:46] Nanci Kreidman: I'm going to tell my my daughter run for president. Forget the bottom stuff.
[00:43:50] Mazie Hirono: And what happened for the two of you? I mean, obviously, you and Maisie at some point in your lives without having necessarily having examples made the decision of acting on the need to have power and authority in some political role.
[00:44:06] Nanci Kreidman: Well, let's ask Maisie, Maisie, when you were a little girl, what did you want to be when you grew up?
[00:44:11] Mazie Hirono: I didn't inspire to be to run to run for office. It's not the kind of thing that normal people think about. I'm going to be governor of Hawaii.
[00:44:18] Nanci Kreidman: That was relatively normal, but I think I I did have the the fortune of having uh uh been raised by a very strong single parent, my mother. And I watched it through going up watching her being very independent, taking care of things, because no man was going to come along and save her from the realities of having to pay the rent and taking care of her family. So without her sitting me down and saying, here's what um mommy's doing and all that, I just watched but and learned by example to take risks and to take some chances in life. And none of these, as I said, were articulated to me, but I I definitely had a tremendous impact on me. And I think there were other life's experiences such as uh during the Vietnam War and questioning what the government was doing and then looking at politics as a way to make some social changes. Even there, though, as Nancy mentioned earlier on, women who run for office think that before we can put ourselves on the ballot, that we have to know so much more than then men uh think that they need to know before they they run for office. There are there are so many uh societal uh things that come into play and there have been studies, for example, you talk about your your daughter and your experiences going to school, there have been studies that that show that girl students, for example, are called upon far less frequently than than boy students, and there are all these subtle and not-so-subtle ways that girl the leadership of of the girls are not as uh as developed. Their expectations are still not where they ought to be and certain sex roles stereotyping uh much as we try to change them are still there. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't keep trying, you know, and changing the textbooks and and the behaviors in in the classrooms.
[00:46:16] Diane Chang: Thanks for calling Alice Ann. The calls are coming in fast and furious, so we have to say goodbye. Next, we have George of Wymalo. Hi, George.
[00:46:24] Speaker George: Hi. Yeah, I just have a question about a lot of the the talk has been about women and jobs and parity and pay, but you know a lot of well both man and woman parents are both are forced to work now to have enough money. Do you think that maybe the feminist movement has sort of not emphasized enough, or I guess one question is should they put more emphasis on what about a family where one of the parents wants to stay at home and I I mean you know child leave and all that? And what do you how would you judge this in our state? Uh the uh uh child leave programs, etc.?
[00:47:09] Nanci Kreidman: Nancy, you want to take a crack at that? Um I I just I I guess my first response would be the feminist movement has been about choice, providing choice for individuals and families, and if a family you know, I think what we're what you're are A man or woman? Referring to as family is sort of mom and pop and Sis and brother and dog spot. Of course, nuclear families in in that traditional form are shrinking fast with other forms of the family, um joining the uh the horizon. But the point is that if an individual family, whoever their members are, uh can decide that one of them is going to stay home and they can afford to do that, that's wonderful. But it it would have to be up to the economics of the family and the decision making and the career aspirations and the responsibilities as as they've been discussed and decided by the by those family members. Um I don't think the feminist movement has said um that women can't stay home or that men should go to work. I think it's been about that families can choose among themselves and it isn't that women should stay home.
[00:48:20] Speaker George: Well, my question sort of is though they really don't have a choice anymore. I mean, the average You are choices and family or a single parent father or mother.
[00:48:29] Nanci Kreidman: That's true. So, I mean, how should this be more addressed by I mean not necessarily just the feminist movement but anyone interested in families? Well, I think you're talking about economic stability and economic viability of of individual community members, and yes, I'd like to see there be a greater emphasis on economic self-sufficiency issues with more people having the opportunity to uh develop their talents and their vocations and um their their lifestyles. But I I don't know the I mean, given the economic picture as it is, how does a single mom stay at home to raise her child?
[00:49:07] Speaker George: Well, thank you.
[00:49:08] Diane Chang: Okay, thank you, George. Next, we have Sharon of Wlo. Hi, Sharon.
[00:49:13] Speaker Sharon: Hi. Uh, I'm a psychiatrist and I've been a feminist for about 54 of my 58 years. As a result, I've been observing the mechanisms that operate when women allow themselves to hinder or be hindered, feel guilty, feel inadequate, uh self-examine as if raking over the coals and so on. And I believe that uh as pointed out in Faludi's book, Backlash and many other places, that there's almost a curriculum for toughening women up who are going to be subjected to the double standard, if they're going to be going into politics or business or almost anywhere else. I'm wondering whether uh Maisie or any of the others of you have tried to systematize some of the psychological support and social messages that women should be giving uh in order to make this a less unequal psychological race.
[00:50:17] Diane Chang: Maisie, wow. That that's a very That's a good question. That's good. Yes. I'm I'm racking my brain right now. When you when you say systematize, uh I'm not sure what you mean. There are organizations that study women in politics and what the barriers are and and all of that. For example, the Eagleton Institute at Rugers, there is a study Center for Women Study. Pardon me? At What place? Yes, and they collect uh just volumes of information on women in politics, and that's one of the resource areas. So if you're if I understand what what you're getting at by saying systematizing, one of the ways you systematize is first of all to to have a a uh the data to to analyze, etc. So there are as I say organizations. I recently went to a conference that was put on by the Women's Campaign Research Fund, and this is a Washington-based non-partisan group, although they do uh only support women who are pro-choice but but non-partisan, and they put together uh leadership conferences. And I went to one of these uh and and that's another way I I think of of systematizing the experience that women have in running for office and to provide some real-life uh uh backup and information on how you can be successful at it. So there are these kinds of organizations that are doing the kind of systematizing I think you're talking about.
[00:51:49] Nanci Kreidman: Let me just add that locally, the Hawaii Women's Political Caucus has been uh a small and and growing, uh active, um political organization that's tried to support women candidates and prepare uh women who might be interested in running for office. Earlier we talked a little bit about the needs that women have articulated to uh prepare themselves for running. How how do you how do you train women so that they can see themselves as as leaders and and elected officials? And so if if we can support women in making those decisions, then we'll have the critical mass that Maisie was talking about earlier. Nancy, how can people get in touch with the Hawaii Women's Political Caucus if they want more information, want to run, anything like that?
[00:52:33] Nanci Kreidman: The new board has just been elected, um with some of returning board members. The new leadership of the board hasn't been uh fully established yet. Linda Say is a a board member who's acting in the capacity uh right now. I don't know um what her phone number is off the top of my head. I suppose people could call me at the Clearing House um and I could guide them in the in the right direction.
[00:52:58] Diane Chang: Okay. Well, thanks very much for calling, Sharon. Okay. Next we have Sally from Maui. Hi, Sally.
[00:53:04] Speaker Sally: Hi. Um I called uh really, it was partly in response to uh one of your earlier callers who brought up the question of corporate America and campaign finance reform. And listening to this program previous to that, I had thought to myself, I have to make more of an effort to contribute to the campaigns of women candidates because it's well-known that they have much more difficulty raising money for their races, and that's critical. That's really critical. So it's uh extremely important that women who would like to see more women in office, uh do everything they can to contribute to their campaigns. Um And I wanted to make if I could, is there some what's the best way it to contribute to the individual candidate? Is the Hawaii Women's Political Caucus uh a way to support individual candidates? What's the best way to to support individual women candidates uh for office?
[00:54:08] Nanci Kreidman: Well, I think [unintelligible — audio glitch] uh easiest and and most popular way to support individual women candidates is to send them a check directly. Um they'd be grateful for that. I I agree with you. I think more people have to be supporting women candidates because it is difficult for women to uh raise funds. The women's political caucus, the Hawaii Women's Political Caucus gets involved in a very lively endorsement process uh every election election go around. Uh we're gearing up for next year's election and um we do target certain races and uh select certain races where we try to put our resources into uh the the campaigns of of those um uh endorsed candidates. So watch uh the the media for the or join as a member and um receive mail uh mailings and newsletters and whatnot and become a part of that endorsement process. We'd love to have you.
[00:55:00] Mazie Hirono: Okay. Can I make one more point? Which is um I'm 65 and in the '70s, I was involved in a women's organization at a very hierarchical institution that, you know, where, you know, there were the top people, there were the next of the top people and so on. And the wonderful thing about the women's group that formed at that place was it took in all the hierarchical levels and it had, you know, women professors, it had women uh uh technicians, it had women who were guards, it had secretaries and the exchange of life experience among the women in that group wasn't, you know, was something that was enormously uh psychologically supportive for all of them. Um and I think it's important that women's organizations be across all classes as they exist in our society because the the understanding that gives one of uh is enormously powerful.
[00:56:08] Diane Chang: Thank you for calling, Sally. uh Next we have Catherine from Mililani. Thanks for waiting, Catherine. Good morning.
[00:56:15] Speaker Catherine: Good morning. Um I'm a regular listener and uh I was just lying in bed, but I heard a comment saying that uh the caller never heard of any uh uh girl or woman uh uh serving as a student body president of a high school. Well, I believe my cousin was the first um woman to be in that office at McKinley High School. This was 20 about 20 years ago. And um I have gone to the legislature and spoke and um not too women not too many women uh go out there.
[00:57:00] Speaker Speaker 1: And uh I would like to make a comment that I would like to encourage more women to um you know, be a part of the um I guess the voice and um I I've been a um uh the status of the commission of status of women. Uh now that they have a budget uh cutbacks they they either cut that um office off or um it is no longer in existence or I don't I don't know.
[00:57:40] Speaker Speaker 2: Well, it's attached administratively to the Lieutenant Governor's office.
[00:57:43] Speaker Speaker 1: I see.
[00:57:44] Speaker Speaker 2: I and that's a good point Katherine, I wanted to ask the Lieutenant Governor what is happening with the Commission now, what kinds of projects is it doing and what is its concerns?
[00:57:54] Speaker Speaker 1: Okay, that's all I have to say.
[00:57:55] Speaker Speaker 2: Okay, thanks for calling, Katherine. Bye-bye. I think right now they're looking to stabilize their financing. It's uh it's a real challenge for this entity. When you look at all of the purchase of service providers and the programs that are being assessed I think that the that that the commission on the status of women really is being asked to to basically justify its existence in the scheme of things when other entities are being cut that was some could argue provides more basic services. I think it it makes it a very much a challenge. What I'd like to see is for the commission to become totally independent financially of the state. I'd like to talk with the commission about how we can we can achieve that and as I say, there are entities, you know, for example the Women's Campaign Research Fund. This is a national organization, they get foundation money, they get different kinds of money. I don't think they they get uh money from the federal government, from government money, but they they've developed a strategy for doing this and I think that this is what organizations have to do is they cannot continue to rely on. And I'm not looking at Nancy because, you know, she's one of the people I know. She's I think Nancy is a very uh she's very much uh she's very successful in her fundraising efforts. We need to we need to mobilize um much more um with the orientation that these organizations are going to be self-sufficient and the community is going to be supporting them, but we do have to develop a strategy.
[00:59:36] Speaker Speaker 1: Okay, thank you. And we have time for one more caller, Mark from Aina Haina. Hi, Mark.
[00:59:41] Speaker Speaker 3: Uh, yes. Um I've been involved in the um abortion rights movement here and um, in various other struggles relating to women's equality and, um, it's been, uh it's been some concern of mine that the, um uh, that the leadership of both parties, um, men and women included have, um, failed to speak out against uh, a, um several yearly spectacles which involve the degradation of, of women, um, they're called beauty pageants and there are a number of them, uh, which are organized, um there's the Miss Hawaii pageant, there's the Cherry Blossom Pageant, the Narcissus festival and, um, whatever scholarships they give out, the basic bottom line is that that women are being judged on the basis of how they look and this sends a really, um, a bad message to women in general that, that they should be valued on on how, how they look rather than the kind of human beings that they are, and yet, uh Ms. Hirono and and the Democratic Party leadership has never spoken out in favor of abolishing these things and I'm very concerned about that.
[01:01:00] Speaker Speaker 2: Well, you've just given them an opportunity. Yes, please address this. I think in the scheme of things when we're exercising personal choice, I mean I may not want to run for Miss Hawaii or Cherry Blossom Queen but there are a lot of people who want to do that and we talk about a multicultural, multi-ethnic society and that includes things happening in our community that you and I may not consider of a high priority, you and I may not agree on, but don't you think that other people should have a right to to participate in those things that that they think promotes their culture?
[01:01:42] Speaker Speaker 3: Okay, Ms. Ms. Hirono, if you agree with me that they're exploitative of women, why don't you say that?
[01:01:48] Speaker Speaker 2: I know I don't agree with you that, they're, no. I agree with you, Mark. This is Diane.
[01:01:57] Speaker Speaker 3: I mean, what if we had slave auctions? I mean, is that, you know, I mean is that, uh um
[01:02:03] Speaker Speaker 2: Now when you take anything to the end degree, yes, it does become ridiculous, I agree. However, as I say, I I may not want to run myself, but far be it for because that's not where I choose to go. That's where I would not be. Rather, I would put my orientation, but you feel very excusing me. Well Mark, stop yelling at our Lieutenant Governor. That's my job. You feel very strongly about it, go out and and talk about it, you know.
[01:02:32] Speaker Speaker 3: And you don't. And you don't.
[01:02:35] Speaker Speaker 2: There are a lot of priorities in life and and the degradation of women every single year in the Hawaii, Miss I think you're absolutely right, Mark, but we're running out of time and there you got somebody to agree with you, Mark. Okay, hey, I agree with you. Um, I in closing, I want to thank our guests, um Nancy Creedman and Lieutenant Governor Mazie Hirono. Can, just a very brief, um pointer to any women out there who are interested in perhaps running for politics, what what advice could you give them, Mazie? Or what uh encouragement? If you want to do it, do it. If if if you are motivated to to do it, get out there and do it. Don't, you know, don't think about it or whine about it, go out and there's all kinds of organizations out there ready to help you.
[01:03:23] Speaker Speaker 2: And Nancy? Well, this has sort of been a fascinating hour. It's a very complex issue. No, you're going to run for office, right? No, I'm not going to. Not this afternoon anyway. I mean, I think one of the things that we've got to recognize is the incredible sacrifice that it represents. Um, Mazy says just just do it. I think it's a little more tricky than that. Um, but I do think I I hope we are going to have more women, uh, in elected. Okay, well, thanks again, Nancy Creedman and Lieutenant Governor Mazie Hirono. This show has been produced by Suzy Roth. The director of operations is Jeff Ailardi. Our replay is tonight at 8 on KIFO 1380 AM. You've been listening to Pop Radio. I'm Diane Shang of the Honolulu Star Bulletin, Aloha, and please tune in again next week.