Hawaiian Sovereignty Organizations
Price of Paradise · Hawaii Public Radio · aired 1995-08-13
Guests: Kekuni Blaisdell (Ka Pakaukau); Keali'i Gora (Ka Lāhui Hawaiʻi); Blossom Feiteira (Nation of Hawaii)
Duration: 1:09:28

[00:00:03] Randall Roth: Good morning. This is Randy Roth, host of the Price of Paradise radio show. Today's show is the first in a three-part series on sovereignty, a topic that can quickly stir emotions on all sides of the issue. This week, we have representatives from three specific sovereignty groups to compare and contrast the positions and approaches of their respective organizations. Also, they'll discuss the role of non-Hawaiians in the sovereignty process and describe the likely impact of sovereignty on non-Hawaiians. Next week, we'll have three guests who will raise a number of concerns that they have about sovereignty. For example, they believe history is being distorted by proponents of sovereignty, and that unrealistic claims and expectations are the result. In week three, our guests will discuss a range of issues, including the plebiscite controversy, the concerns of Hawaiians not yet convinced of the merits of sovereignty, and the relationship of sovereignty to the Hawaiian Home Land controversy, OHA, and the Bishop Estate.
[00:01:19] Randall Roth: Each week, we'll also hear from callers. As usual, we ask that callers voice their concerns or ask their questions in a respectful manner. The people behind pop radio are all volunteers who believe in the importance of informed conversation. Our goal in bringing these shows to you is to make sure that the very best information, questions, concerns, and responses are all readily available to the public. We believe that in the absence of informed public dialogue, the sovereignty movement will simply drift, fomenting frustration and resentment on all sides of this controversial issue. As mentioned, our guests this morning all are associated with specific sovereignty organizations. Each could easily use our entire hour simply telling us about his or her respective organization's structure and vision.
[00:02:09] Randall Roth: But they have graciously agreed instead to engage in a conversation that will focus on two areas of interest. The first has to do with the similarities and differences of the various sovereignty organizations. The second relates to non-Hawaiians. Where do they fit in and how would they be affected by sovereignty? Our guests this morning are Keikuni Blaisdell, Blossom Fittara, and Keli‘i Gora. Keikuni is the convener of Ka Pae ‘Aina. He's a practicing physician, an internist and hematologist, and a professor at the University of Hawaii School of Medicine. Blossom, who isn't here just yet but we're expecting her any minute, is acting head of state of the Nation of Hawaii. That's a group that formally was called O‘ahu Ohana Council and is perhaps most closely associated with its leader, Bumpy Kanahele.
[00:03:05] Randall Roth: Blossom is a Kanaka Maoli from Maui. She's actively involved in the sovereignty movement has been since 1989 and has served on many community boards and associations in the Hawaiian community. Her focus has been on educating and informing the community on the issue of sovereignty and the rights of Kanaka Maoli. Keli‘i Gora is the O‘ahu Island chair of Kalahui Hawai‘i, a native initiative of Hawaiian sovereignty. As O‘ahu Po‘o, he presides over an elected council of 32 members representing various districts of the island. Keli‘i has represented Kalahui at the United Nations in Geneva at the working group on indigenous populations. He's a graduate of Chaminade University with a major in business administration and minors in marketing and management.
[00:03:57] Randall Roth: Well, Keikuni and Keli‘i, good morning.
[00:04:00] Kekuni Blaisdell: Good morning. Aloha.
[00:04:02] Randall Roth: Why don't we get started? Keikuni, if you don't mind, if you could begin this conversation by telling us what distinguishes your organization from other sovereignty organizations?
[00:04:14] Kekuni Blaisdell: [speaking Hawaiian] So we're honored to have this opportunity to be here and to respond to your opening question, Randy. Ka Pae ‘Aina is a coalition of Kanaka Maoli organizations committed to kuokoa, that is full and complete independence. So that is our goal, but we realize that it's a long struggle and we support all organizations directed toward that goal, realizing that it will take incremental steps. So we support Kalahui, for example, we support the Nation of Hawaii. We support those organizations that are committed to reversing, relieving the plight of our Kanaka Maoli people, correcting the wrongs of the past and creating a better homeland here in Kapae ‘Aina for all people, Kanaka Maoli and non-Kanaka Maoli.
[00:05:25] Randall Roth: So in a phrase, full and complete independence?
[00:05:28] Kekuni Blaisdell: Is the ultimate goal, and as long as that option is always kept open, then we support the movement.
[00:05:36] Randall Roth: Okay. Keli‘i, Kalahui has a different vision, I think. Could you tell us a little bit about how it differs from that just described by Keikuni?
[00:05:46] Keali'i Gora: Well, Kalahui Hawaii is a native initiative for self-governance, and there are approximately 25,000 people that belong to Kalahui, both Hawaiian and non-Hawaiian, who reside both here in the archipelago as well as in various states in the United States. We're founded upon a democratic constitution, basically enunciating self-determination, which is our right as indigenous people, to freely determine our political status as well as to freely pursue our cultural, social, and economic development. Furthermore, Kalahui is democratic and elective, and the bottom line that for Kalahui anyway is that we're coming to explain our master plan and what we're doing towards moving our initiative for self-governance.
[00:06:37] Randall Roth: Okay. Let me ask Keikuni a couple of things that Keli‘i said make me wonder about your organization structure. First of all, he used the word democratic. Is Kapae ‘Aina democratic?
[00:06:51] Kekuni Blaisdell: We're democratic in the sense that we believe in our people as the ultimate authority. If democratic means subscribing and insisting on the current system of majority vote of a minority in controlling the process that is influenced largely by money control of the media, then we're against that concept of democracy.
[00:07:20] Randall Roth: Keli‘i, is that what you were thinking of with the word democratic, or or something else?
[00:07:26] Keali'i Gora: No, Kalahui is democratic in the sense that what happens is we go through elections, and we have legislative sessions, um as well as our citizens deciding to put forth resolutions, and which um really is like our initiative and referendum process that entitles all citizens of the nation to be part of our elective process and democratic process in general. Um, it is our own government that we have um structured and we have put together, and basically identifies four branches, our legislative, executive, judicial, and we have an Ali‘i Nui branch, which is basically responsible for culture, tradition, and protocol. So it's our own native government.
[00:08:12] Randall Roth: And in a way that that structure is fairly conventional.
[00:08:15] Keali'i Gora: That is correct.
[00:08:16] Randall Roth: Okay. Keikuni, Keli‘i also mentioned that his organization, Kalahui, has 25,000 members. How does your organization compare in terms of the number of members?
[00:08:29] Kekuni Blaisdell: Yes, our organization is not a government. Our organization supports the sovereignty movement as long as the ultimate goal is independence. And so, Kapae ‘Aina, Pro Kanaka Maoli Independence Working Group and the Kanaka Maoli Tribunal Komike, which are our three organizations meet every week at the University in Ethnic Studies, and we're always open. And we have a dozen people who usually come, and about half are non-Kanaka Maoli.
[00:09:03] Randall Roth: Well, now I'm curious Keli‘i, where do non-Hawaiians fit into Kalahui? It's it's a democratic organization. It's structured by by vote. But is that just the vote of of Hawaiians, or can anybody join the organization?
[00:09:20] Keali'i Gora: Anyone can join Kalahui Hawaii under Article 2, Section 4 of our Kalahui constitution. Um, we bestow upon those who are non-Hawaiians honorary citizenship. What that entails them to do is to participate in all of the various committees and functions in our nation. However, they're not entitled to vote. It's a historical reason, um basically back during the overthrow time, and we have taken that analysis and and use it as part of our constitution. However, we embrace non-Hawaiians into Kalahui Hawaii primarily because we feel that we need as much support both from the Hawaiian and non-Hawaiian communities to actively participate in this movement towards sovereignty and self-determination for our people.
[00:10:12] Randall Roth: Okay. Now Keikuni emphasized full and complete independence. That was at least in my mind, that's the at the heart of of what his organization is pushing for. As I understand it, Kalahui has has a different sort of mission. Could you very briefly sum up how it differs from full and complete independence?
[00:10:33] Keali'i Gora: Well, actually, um Kalahui supports independence under what we call our our reinscription process, which was a Resolution 742 passed by the United Nations General Assembly Resolution. And basically what it entails and affords all residents of the territory is to decide, you know, whether they want free association, commonwealth, independence, or other separate systems, or even um incorporation. So it's a a chance for the people and it's a choice for the people to vote um whether or not they want to proceed. However, when you look at the whole independence issues, you have two other choices. You can either go for the gun or you can one day decide that America will set us free. Um, which we know at this particular time, American is not enlightened um to set us free because we have seen it in many of their policy, and this past um two weeks ago at the United Nations Working Group on Indigenous Populations, um the attorney and representative representative from the United States, Miriam Shapiro, clearly stated if self-determination means independence, the United States of America will will reject the entire document.
[00:11:54] Keali'i Gora: So it is very clear on the point of independence from the United States of America.
[00:12:00] Randall Roth: In in this morning's advertiser in the focus section, there is there is something there that I would encourage all of our listeners to to take a look at and and read closely. Uh, articles by uh somebody from each of the three organizations that are represented here on our radio show this morning. And a word that was mentioned in in the piece that your organization submitted from Mililani Trask, your Prime Minister, was realistic. And the advertiser chose to highlight that, and as I was listening to you just now, Keli‘i, I was thinking to myself, um that's kind of a realistic approach. They're not going to give us full and complete independence, I think I heard you say. And so you have a a vision that's that's somewhere between that and where we are now.
[00:12:45] Keali'i Gora: That is correct. We're right now, there's different political agendas that Kalahui has. We have four arenas. The second and third arena, um which is our political platforms, is to engage in um with the Department of the Interior, state, and Justice to really give us the right to be considered and classified as native people under the federal policy.
[00:13:08] Randall Roth: And that's what some people call nation within a nation, which other people think of as being like the the Indian reservations, the Native American reservations.
[00:13:18] Keali'i Gora: That is correct, but it also incorporates a lot of cultural and traditional aspects into um building, you know, our nation Kalahui Hawai‘i.
[00:13:27] Randall Roth: Okay. Well, we've been joined by Blossom Fittara, and Blossom, am I pronouncing your last name correctly?
[00:13:32] Blossom Feiteira: Yes, you are, Aloha Randy.
[00:13:34] Randall Roth: Good morning. Blossom is the acting head of state for the Nation of Hawaii, and uh Blossom as I understand, it has about 7,000 members. I read that in the newspaper recently.
[00:13:46] Blossom Feiteira: Yeah, that is correct.
[00:13:47] Randall Roth: What we've been doing and and uh our listeners uh who just joined us, Blossom got here just a little bit late. Uh, Blossom, we're we're just talking about ways in which each of the organizations is different from the others. And I'm wondering uh Nation of Hawaii, what do you think of as being uh unique about it compared to the other sovereignty organizations?
[00:14:11] Blossom Feiteira: Well, um as far as the Nation of Hawaii is concerned, we are we go out into the community and we educate, excuse me, have a little cough here. Um, on the aspects of total independence based on historical fact. Okay in 1893 our nation was overthrown by through an act of war with the assistance of the United States military. For Hawaii to settle for anything less than a fully independent status, um means that our people have to deserve less than what they really what they're really supposed to have.
[00:14:46] Randall Roth: So you're for full and complete independence like Keikuni.
[00:14:49] Blossom Feiteira: That is correct.
[00:14:50] Randall Roth: And something else in in reading about the Nation of Hawaii uh that has struck me and I don't know if if this is is different or or if there is some overlap, but it seems to have a a very conservative approach from a the standpoint of structuring the economy. Uh it seems to be very suspicious for example of of the Federal Reserve and um could you tell us a little bit about what what the economy might look like under the Nation of Hawaii's vision of sovereignty?
[00:15:21] Blossom Feiteira: Under an independent Hawaii, according to international line guidelines and principles, what you have is in a country that is in control of the airspace, a 200 mile exclusive economic zone in the waters. So what happens is you control what goes in and what goes out. You have tariffs and taxes that you can lay on. Um with Hawaii being part of the United States, we don't have control over that. So $600 million annually fly over us every year that we cannot tap into.
[00:15:52] Randall Roth: Million or billion?
[00:15:53] Blossom Feiteira: Well, billion, I'm sorry.
[00:15:56] Randall Roth: And you'd say if you want to fly over uh the Nation of Hawaii, you've got to pay a tariff.
[00:16:02] Blossom Feiteira: Correct.
[00:16:03] Randall Roth: And then you would abolish income taxes, other taxes on the residents, the citizens of the nation?
[00:16:08] Blossom Feiteira: Well, that hasn't been fully decided yet, but what we're looking at is trying to build a solid economic foundation for our nation. Um Hawaii is very unique not only in the opportunities that are provided for us, but as being one of the most central and strategic places in the Pacific, we are the gateway that goes down into the South Pacific.
[00:16:32] Randall Roth: Okay. Keikuni, in your piece in this morning's advertiser, uh you talked quite a bit about just what the economy might look like and and and the word uh environment and and I guess sacred uh or a couple words that that come to mind as I think of your article. Could you tell us a little bit about uh Kapake Kauka's vision so far as the economy of this independent nation would be?
[00:16:57] Kekuni Blaisdell: Yes, well currently we have two main kinds of economies. We have the dominant capitalistic system. And pursuing that is the government, transnational corporations, and the military and they have a global grip on the whole planet. And we are merely pawns in that system. And uh the second economy is one of subsistence economy and that's the basis of our traditional culture. So our approach is to downsize this exploitative and destructive capitalistic system.
[00:17:45] Randall Roth: So the military goes.
[00:17:47] Kekuni Blaisdell: The military, yep, gradually, gradually, gradually.
[00:17:51] Randall Roth: Is tourism simply scaled down?
[00:17:53] Kekuni Blaisdell: The excesses of tourism have to be curtailed, and indeed, and the unlimited ingress of uh foreigners into our our homeland, depleting our natural resources and leading to social ills such as rising crime and destruction of our environment just have to be stopped.
[00:18:13] Randall Roth: And the so-called small-scale subsistence economy needs to be gradually expanded and that's essential for our culture because it requires interaction of our people with our sacred ‘aina.
[00:18:29] Kekuni Blaisdell: And this has to be preserved.
[00:19:00] Speaker 1: And he also is a professor at the University of Hawaii School of Medicine. Blossom Fatera is the acting head of state of the nation of Hawaii and she has been actively involved in the sovereignty movement since 1989. And Kaiali'i Gora is the Oahu Island Chair of Kalahui Hawaii, a native initiative for Hawaiian sovereignty that has 25,000 citizens. If you'd like to ask a question or make a brief comment, we invite you to call us at 955-8821. As always, neighbor islanders are invited to call collect and the number again is 955-8821. Finally, if you take a look at this morning's advertiser in the focus section, you'll have an opportunity to learn a lot more about these three specific organizations.
[00:19:52] Speaker 1: Each of our other guests in the studio just told us a little bit about what the economy might look like under their visions of sovereignty, tell us about Kalahui.
[00:20:03] Kaiali'i: First of all, I'd like to say that we encourage all people to get a copy of what we call our Hokupua Kalahui Hawaii. It is Kalahui's master plan for self-governance.
[00:20:13] Speaker 1: How would people get that?
[00:20:14] Kaiali'i: They can go ahead and give me a call or come by our education committee or call our national office in Hilo. My phone number is 942-7607. Our national office is 961-2888 which is in Hilo. And our education committee chair is Kavikanahoopi and his phone number is 696-6754.
[00:20:40] Speaker 1: Okay. So tell us about the economy as seen by Kalahui sometime down the road.
[00:20:46] Kaiali'i: In our master plan, we bullet point the economic development schemes. Basically, this workable plan for our program of Hawaiian lands and resources which also anticipates tax benefits for the private sector businesses who work with us and which meet the following criterion. First of all, development which is community-based. In other words, we support community-based economic development. But in that operation, we also feel that when deciding various programs, economic programs, it must be culturally appropriate as well as environmentally responsible. Kekuni brought up several points pertaining to Malamaina or to really take care of our sacred land. And we call upon people that you know, our land is very sacred to the Hawaiian people and the continued desegregation and pollution, such as nuclear warheads here at Pearl Harbor, you know, is unconscionable and we cannot tolerate that. So there is a strong movement to oppose any type of you know, nuclear or any type of toxic dumping here in our sacred land, Hawaii.
[00:22:00] Speaker 1: Okay. Well we can come back to to hear some more about your respective visions under sovereignty, but we've got some callers on the line. First, let's go to Roger from Kailua. Good morning, Roger.
[00:22:12] Roger: Good morning.
[00:22:12] Speaker 1: You're on the air.
[00:22:14] Roger: I have a question I believe for Kekuni.
[00:22:18] Speaker 1: Oh, hello.
[00:22:20] Roger: Oh, excuse me. I take that back. This would be a question for Kaiali'i.
[00:22:25] Speaker 1: Okay. Kaiali'i Gora, who is the Oahu Island chair of Kalahui Hawaii. Go ahead, Roger.
[00:22:33] Roger: Right. I was looking over the articles in this morning's advertiser, which you've already referred to, Randy. And two of them make generous use of the term Kanaka Maoli, referring to indigenous Hawaiian people. But the article by Mili Lani Trask never used that term. And I'm wondering if that is a term that is generally agreed to by all the groups concerned with Hawaiian sovereignty to refer to indigenous Hawaiian people, or whether it is a controversial term.
[00:23:14] Kaiali'i: Actually, for Kalahui Hawaii, it is not controversial whatsoever. Kanaka Maoli is used. There are other terms that are used, like Lahui Hawaii or Poe Oivi or Poe Hawaii, which are other terms which describe us as indigenous peoples, the original inhabitants of this land who has been here since time immemorial.
[00:23:38] Speaker 1: And and people, I I I'm told the expression native Hawaiian native Hawaiian is is not appreciated by some of the Kanaka Maoli. Kekuni. Why Why is that?
[00:23:49] Kekuni Blaisdell: Well, Kanaka Maoli is the name by which our ancestors identified ourselves. It's a Kanaka Maoli term. So why should we use any other term? The term native Hawaiian, for example, with a lower lowercase N small N, is defined by the Congress of those of half or more Kanaka Maoli ancestry, who have special benefits to the lands. The rest of us are excluded. If there was a capital N, native Hawaiian, there's another definition by Congress, not by us. And that definition is the descendants of those who were here with the arrival of Captain Cook in 1778. Why should we be defined in terms of the arrival of a foreigner?
[00:24:34] Speaker 1: Okay. So it's it's insulting, it's humiliating. So that's why we insist that we are Kanaka Maoli. And in an important sense, we are not native Hawaiians. You know, Kekuni is is so mild-mannered and soft spoken and
[00:24:48] Kekuni Blaisdell: Oh, what, I getting heated?
[00:24:51] Speaker 1: No, no, no. It's it's interesting that, uh, as radical as as your position is you're so, I I shouldn't say radical.
[00:24:58] Kekuni Blaisdell: We're very conservative. We're trying to conserve our nation.
[00:25:01] Speaker 1: Okay. I think some people think of Kalahui because of the the the its leaders, the Trask sisters sometimes think of the organization as being and maybe radical's not the right word, as being further out there than Kekuni's organization. But I I think when you look at at everything in writing, it's relatively conservative.
[00:25:25] Kaiali'i: I would agree with you, but I just wanted to turn your attention to the native Hawaiian and why Kalahui had put that in our master plan. You know, our elected officials as well as our citizen had an opportunity to put together a master plan and it does say native Hawaiians in our descendants. Um, though it may be a disputed word by other organizations, um, this is we put it as the capital N in Kalahui Hawaii to really signify that, you know, we are in control and that capital N for us as a native Hawaiian in our master plan really enunciates our particular rights from our point of view and saying that our descendants are entitled to all of the various benefits as well within the federal policy, which has some various benefits such as the Hawaiian homes, the education, and the health acts that have been set forth through federal pieces to better the conditions of the native Hawaiians.
[00:26:25] Speaker 1: Again, I'm hearing that word realistic. If you're dealing with folks who think of you as native Hawaiians, then you're willing to use that term?
[00:26:33] Kaiali'i: That is correct.
[00:26:34] Speaker 1: Okay. We, Roger, thank you for your call. We're going to try and get as many callers this morning as we can and and we do have some open lines, if anyone would like to get in line to, uh, ask a question or make a brief comment. Our, our number is 955-8821. Next, we go to Norm in Kailua. Good morning, Norm.
[00:26:50] Norm: Good morning. How are you this morning?
[00:26:52] Speaker 1: Just fine. What do you have for us?
[00:26:53] Norm: Oh, I just a comment that was made earlier and I can't remember the which of the young ladies made the comment, but Must have been Blossom.
[00:27:02] Speaker 1: Going back to the to the economics of of Hawaii. As a resident of Hawaii, someone who was born and raised here, I've seen a lot of the areas of the island that's I've traveled from Mauai but that have gone away because of the tourism and then and what has happened to the economics here.
[00:27:18] Norm: But I I I would dare to point out I think that Hawaii is no longer the center of the Pacific and probably won't be. Uh, we participate in the Pacific uh nation as a as an island entity but the finances have gone to Singapore, the the tourism now is shifting to Guam. Um, you know, it would be nice to think that we could tax flyovers of of Hawaii but it's not going to happen. They will simply go around us as they are now.
[00:27:45] Speaker 1: Norm, let's let's let's get Blossom's reaction to that then and and I'll come back to you.
[00:27:50] Blossom Feiteira: You know, one of the reasons why um the tourism industry is floating off into other um countries and other um parts of the world, is simply because we um our islands have been overdeveloped to the point where they no longer feel comfortable here. The reason why tourism tourists come here to Hawaii, one is because of the spirit of Aloha, two is because of its people. When the spirit of of Aloha is taken away and the people are not happy here, they will no longer come. They come here to endure our our environment, our ocean, um and it's no longer available to them. The water is polluted. All they see is cement.
[00:28:26] Norm: Oh absolutely. I totally agree. I mean, we have five star hotels on the big island that are basically being put into Saran wrap because there's nobody who wants to stay in them.
[00:28:35] Speaker 1: So Norm, your your point though is that uh if we have high tariffs, people will simply avoid Hawaii?
[00:28:42] Norm: I think that that's an uh something that we have to recognize as being a very distinct possibility. I mean, we we have it now. We have a the state government which is downsizing, people are being laid off, the the the source of money that comes from the the business community, from the tourist community is getting smaller and so fees are on us, on everybody, everybody on the show and everybody in Hawaii are going up uh and yet as a businessman, there's I'm making less and being asked to pay more. People residents in taxes and fees are are losing jobs, are going to be asked to pay more. It's a downward spiral that we're kind of caught in. Um, we can't we can't continue to to raise tariffs at the airport in the hopes that United or the rest of the airlines are going to want to pay that to come here.
[00:29:28] Speaker 1: Okay, and that's correct. And unfortunately, the reason why things are the way they are, is because we as a people have no control over what's happening. We do, there's a ballot box. Yeah, there is a ballot box. But as um, answer me this question. How many of those people who are elected into office are actually listening to what we are saying. And we just, the state of Hawaii Correct, absolutely. So, as, you know, as far as the um, the government is concerned, once they are elected into office, they no longer answer to us. And that is the problem. Norm. Hang on a second, Norm. I've got to, I've got to squeeze Kaiali'i and Kekuni into this. Uh Kaiali'i Gora.
[00:30:11] Kaiali'i: I just wanted to respond to that and thank you very much for your analysis and how correct you are Norm. Kalahui Hawaii uh with a new nation being recognized will have the opportunity to tax its people to to ensure that various benefits will be applied. For example, if you look at a from a comparative level, like Indian nations that have safe ways and holiday inns, etc., um there are many tax benefits that are left um to decide by that sovereign entity. Furthermore, the harbors and the Honolulu airport and other airports that are here in this entire state of Hawaii, sit on ceded lands and what that is is revenues therefrom should be coming to the Hawaiian people to better our conditions, which they have not.
[00:31:02] Kekuni Blaisdell: Yes, does not subscribe to what I take to be your position and that is that an expanding economy is essential. In a sense, we are against an expanding economy because it's based on exploitation of the people and destruction Exactly of our environment. Exactly. Right. And therefore it has to be downsized. far more than we have a right to. Right. So it has to be downsized.
[00:34:47] Speaker 1: issue. I appreciate it. We've got a number of people waiting, so we're going to have to move on, but I really appreciate your call this morning. Certainly. Our next caller is Meala from Kahalu'u. Good morning, Meala.
[00:34:58] Meala: Aloha. Um I'm with the Makawai Restoration Alliance and um I have two questions. One is towards Kalahui and the other one is towards dream restoration.
[00:35:16] Speaker 1: Why don't you ask them one at a time. We'll get uh Kaiali'i's reaction to the first and then we'll listen to the second question. Go ahead.
[00:35:24] Meala: Um is it I see now that uh Kalahui has made a couple changes in their bylaws and things and I was wondering if this is a way that they've gone to come to a consensus with the other groups. I think one of them was Blood Quantum and the other one was uh allowing people from the mainland a voice and I think it was different than as it is now if they could clarify that.
[00:35:51] Speaker 1: Okay, so we've got two parts to this. Um Kaiali'i, why don't you you first talk about people from the mainland, I guess, um um Kanaka Maoli from the mainland taking part in this.
[00:36:03] Kekuni Blaisdell: We object to the term mainland. Yes, that is correct. This is our mainland. This is our this is the mainland. Right? This is our mainland. That may somebody be somebody else's mainland. We call that Moku Ho'olu in Kalahui Hawaii. It's the turtle island.
[00:36:16] Kaiali'i: Um first of all, with respect to the mainland vote issue Kalahui Hawaii is actually um right now undergoing um this particular um decision. And what's happening is that this upcoming November legislative session um that will be actually taken to a vote. Um, at this time, personally, I can tell you as the Oahu Island Po'o and uh lawmaker in Kalahui Hawaii that I'm opposed to this. Primarily because um I attended a conference in Los Angeles as well as the Ho'olaulea in LA at Alandro Park. There are about 45,000 people, Hawaiians every single day. What we found out is many people have left there for economic reasons and they really do not understand what our struggle is all about and they're of Hawaiian ancestry. They don't understand, you know, our problems with our water resources, they don't understand the issues with our land and our many struggles and the evictions and arrests that are taking place. So we cannot you know, give them the mainland vote from my opinion at this time.
[00:37:25] Speaker 1: So it's it's not yet set so far as the organization's concerned. You're opposed to letting them have the vote, but presumably there are people in the organization who think it would be a good idea.
[00:37:34] Kaiali'i: Yes, there was an initiative by one of the mainland uh representatives. Um, citizens of Kalahui can, you know, introduce all types of initiatives as well as resolutions before our legislative body.
[00:37:46] Speaker 1: I guess that's what democracy is all about, right? What about blood quantum? That was a part of Meala's question, Blood Quantum.
[00:37:52] Kekuni Blaisdell: Meala there has been no um adjustment to my particular knowledge of the changes in blood quantum.
[00:38:00] Speaker 1: any blood quantum qualification.
[00:38:03] Meala: Meala, you had another question? Um yes, I really I need to extend an invitation to your guests and their Hawaiian groups for education purposes to come out to Wiole October 14th. And if they could say, give us a few minutes to address dream restoration in Hawaii, um any of their your guests or if their groups want to come and put up a booth for educational purposes, and I I just needed to ask that.
[00:38:31] Speaker 1: Meala, they're they're all taking notes and if if you'll leave your phone number with uh Suzy our producer, why perhaps they can get more details from me later on.
[00:38:40] Meala: We're with you all the way, Meala. Mahalo. Mahalo for the invitation. And Meala, we belong, Kalahui Hawaii belongs to the Makabai stream restoration Alliance. All of us also support you and are with you.
[00:38:51] Speaker 1: Okay. Thank you, Meala. Mahalo. We've got some more folks on the line, but I want to remind listeners that this is the Price of Paradise Radio Show. We sometimes call it Pop Radio. Our topic this morning is sovereignty. Uh, this morning we have three proponents of sovereignty, three representatives from specific organizations who are comparing and contrasting the visions of those organizations. And in a bit, they're going to tell us a little bit more about how they see non-Hawaiians fitting into the the scheme of things. Next week, we've got three guests that I guess I would call skeptics or or critics of the sovereignty movement. And then the week after that, we've got some people who are going to address a variety of issues around the periphery, like OHA, the bishop estate, uh Hawaiian homelands controversy.
[00:39:36] Speaker 1: Uh, we think that anyone who listens to these three shows is going to have a much better sense for for just what all of this talk about sovereignty is all about. If you'd like to get in line to ask our guests a question or make a brief comment, all you have to do is call us at 955-8821. Also, if you want to know a little bit more about their respective organizations, read this morning's focus section of the Honolulu Advertiser. Finally, those of you who tuned in late and you'd like to hear the entire show, this evening beginning on at 8 o'clock on KIFO, that's 1380 AM, we'll have a rebroadcast of the entire show. And I guess, finally, still is uh that you should watch KHON Channel 2 News tonight at 6 and 10. We have Manolo Morales and Bob the cameraman down here with us and I think probably they'll do a show on this evening's news on our program this morning.
[00:40:29] Speaker 1: The number again is 955-8821. Our next caller is William from Honolulu. Good morning, William.
[00:40:36] William: Uh good morning. Uh two questions. The first question is, do any of the uh groups represented there intend to apply for um recognition uh as a uh, quote, Native American, unquote, uh tribe band, or nation under either the Department of the Interior rules or do they intend to apply, or at least seek uh congressional legislation for such recommendation?
[00:41:06] Speaker 1: Okay. I I think Blossom is is saying no. Uh Kekuni, I think you're saying no. And that leaves across the table from me, Kaelii from uh uh Kalahui.
[00:41:17] Kaelii: Yes, uh Kalahui um supports this particular initiative and we will be engaging in Washington, DC for the next five years to move toward this particular federal policy on self-determination, which affords Native people the right.
[00:41:31] Speaker 1: Does that necessarily mean, Kaelii, that there would be a quote reservation, a separate landmass, or can you have the the political status of an Indian tribe without a quote reservation?
[00:41:44] Kaelii: These issues still need to be negotiated with the State Department and the Department of the Interior. Um, as I mentioned in my introductory marks, that we incorporate a lot of traditional and cultural values and aspects uh pertaining to the development of our nation. So, you know, from Kalahui's perspective, reservations are completely different and that notion of living like a reservation would be rejected from Kalahui's, you know, perspective.
[00:42:10] Speaker 1: A bad word, right? That's correct. Okay. William, you had another question?
[00:42:14] William: Well, well just before I get to that, just as a slight follow-up, the um Alaska Native Corporations do allow uh non-resident uh members of uh of a of Alaska who have migrated from Alaska for generations to be incorporated as the so-called 13th Corporation. My question to to Kalahui is that do they intend or have they considered that as an alternative?
[00:42:40] Kaelii: At this per uh present point in time, no.
[00:42:44] Speaker 1: And Kaelii has been underlining the word democratic, and so I guess he might invite you William to um uh to make a suggestion.
[00:42:52] Kaelii: That is correct. All right.
[00:42:53] Speaker 1: Uh William, you had another question?
[00:42:55] William: Yeah. Uh there was some uh discussion about economy and um a question of uh of taxation or or some sort of um monetary endeavor. Uh, my question is, uh with respect to that and respect to sovereignty, and I think most of you have agreed pretty much what sovereignty is. My question is, are you going to use American money or are going to coin your own? I mean, isn't sovereignty mean that you have your own currency?
[00:43:27] Speaker 1: The sovereign coin of the realm. Correct.
[00:43:31] Kekuni Blaisdell: Of course. Of course, that's what independence is.
[00:43:36] Blossom Feiteira: Correct. There was a time when Hawaii had their own um coins. So there's no reason why we cannot return to that.
[00:43:43] Speaker 1: Our own currency. William, thank. And what is Kalahui's position?
[00:43:46] Kaelii: Kalahui, um we will still be using the US dollar as our currency and we are being very realistic in this approach until our Hawaiians decide that they're really ready uh to make this change. And it all comes back to this whole issue of taking a real realistic approach.
[00:44:03] Speaker 1: But realism, realism as defined by whom? Correct. By Hawaiians who are part of Kalahui Hawaii. Our realism is very different from the realism of the colonial oppressors. Folks out there who thought the sovereignty organizations just kind of all, you know, ran into one another and there are no real differences, haven't been listening very closely, I think. Uh, thank you, William. We need to move on, uh and and we do have uh three people waiting, but we've got a couple of lines open, so give us a call if you'd like to get in line. Next is Mrs. Lum from Y Manolo. Good morning, Mrs. Lum.
[00:44:37] Mrs. Lum: Uh good morning. This question is for Kekuni Blazedel. Good morning, Kekuni. This is Miven Lam, good morning to you and to your fellow, I have a question concerning the article you wrote in the paper this morning, Kekuni. You talk about privately held land, and uh the most that you said about it really, unless I misunderstood you, is that it shall be maintained, uh private land shall be maintained as they are, but but eventually uh reviewed for environmental uh health. Uh, I was uh wondering whether you would conduct a further review as to the very legality of the titles involved. And in particular, I would like to bring to your attention that President Nelson Mandela's South African government has set up a land commission that uh is charged with adjudicating contesting claims to private lands.
[00:45:41] Mrs. Lum: And the mandate is that where title is judged to have been unfairly acquired or in equitably concentrated in the hands of the few to the detriment of the many, the commission will change that title, terminate it, and transfer it to the landless. Would you consider that such a commission would be appropriate in your independent nation?
[00:46:02] Kekuni Blaisdell: Yes, indeed. And of course, our people still have the uh tenant right to the land that were defined in the Mahale of 1948. And so the all of the privately held lands have to be reviewed at appropriate times to see if they are really meeting the needs of the people and the nation, and if they are not, such as this so grossly evident, then something needs to be done about it.
[00:46:34] Speaker 1: I think there are some private land owners out there doing a double take. Blossom, uh does the nation of Hawaii have a a similar approach to this?
[00:46:43] Blossom Feiteira: Actually, we just recently created our own land commission that is charged with the same exact thing the things that Miva's just been talking about.
[00:46:51] Speaker 1: Okay. What about Kalahui?
[00:46:53] Kaelii: We we do not trust uh touch uh private ownership at this time, but like I said, you know, the nation is based on a and founded upon a democratic and elective process. So, you know, that could change as time goes on.
[00:47:07] Speaker 1: Okay. Well, thank you for your call. Uh our next caller is Bill from Palolo. Good morning, Bill.
[00:47:13] Bill: Good morning. Uh you got a question or a brief comment for us? Very brief uh request to to all uh Aloha, you guys.
[00:47:21] Speaker 1: Aloha. Aloha.
[00:47:24] Bill: I would like to ask you to uh introduce uh and if you could write down Senate bill SB 1387. I'm sending you a fax from Senator Andy Levin who can't get the uh truth and drinking water from our uh from our board of water supply or Department of Health. It's self-explanatory.
[00:47:43] Speaker 1: Okay. Bill, they're they're taking notes. We need your help, that's all. And and you've made uh your pitch well on previous shows and and they do. They have written this down. Okay, thank you. Thank you, Bill. Uh next is Edwin from Kappa. Good morning, Edwin.
[00:47:58] Edwin: Good morning. Uh I didn't catch the first half of the show, so this question may have been asked and answered, and if it has been uh uh just tell me. Um, but uh my question goes to the positions of the uh people on whether we're going, whether, yeah, we're going to be uh continuing to be under the United States government in the Indian fashion, or uh have an independent. I favor the other two who uh favor an an independent uh country because the Yo.
[00:48:37] Speaker 1: Edwin, you've got two out of three uh in agreement with you.
[00:48:43] Edwin: I have a question related to that.
[00:48:44] Speaker 1: Okay, let me let me just because there are other people who joined us late like you, I just want to say that that Blossom and Kekuni have made it very, very clear that their organizations are for full and complete independence. And Kaelii has made it very clear that Kalahui, at least for now, is focused on the nation within a nation model which a lot of people associate with the Native American approach to things, although it doesn't necessarily have to be that way and Kaelii's going to say a little bit more about that then we'll come right back to you, Edwin.
[00:49:16] Kaelii: Yeah, briefly um that is correct under Arena two for Kalahui Hawaii, dealing the native with the colonizer, which would be the United States States. However, under Arena three, uh Kalahui's approach in the international arena is to attend attend many international conferences and to engage you know, with the global community to express all of the human and civil rights violations that have um been inflicted upon us. Furthermore, with the position of political status, we do support reinscription. So if people think that Kalahui is not moving towards the full breath of self-determination, they're absolutely incorrect.
[00:49:56] Speaker 1: Because in our master plan, we do enunciate that, that if people want independence, free association or commonwealth or even incorporation or other separate systems of self-governance, that is the choice for the people to make, and under the UN mandate, General Assembly Resolution 70 742, it would afford all people the right to vote on this particular matter. And you've emphasized that as a practical matter, you think it's it's hard to take the giant leap all at once, you you go there in a series of steps.
[00:50:28] Kaelii: We move at a shotgun approach sometimes, you know, that's the way it goes. Okay.
[00:50:32] Speaker 1: Uh, Edwin, one more question then we need to move on.
[00:50:35] Edwin: Okay. Well, my question then is to the folks from uh from the two groups that I support and uh and and that's what I want to see here. And uh but the the issue is or the questions are the question is um how are you going to deal with the the uh business people who control the US government using the government to go to war against you, which is what they will do, and how will your government uh be different from that because the Hawaiian governments were also beholden to interests of the of the uh business people.
[00:51:19] Speaker 1: Uh Edwin, Edwin, let's you've asked a really good question. Yeah. And and Kekuni is over here anxious to respond and I'm going to give Blossom an opportunity as well. Kekuni, I think a lot of people would say, you know, we can't blame you for dreaming, but it's not practical. How are you going to pull it off?
[00:51:37] Kekuni Blaisdell: It's only the only way anything becomes practical is by beginning with the dream. And of course, the dream is justice. The dream is reverence, the dream is compassion. And the current colonial establishment, which includes the government and the military and big, big business, doesn't subscribe to reverence and compassion at all. So they're going to be tomorrow, and that's why they're in trouble when you're in charge. They're in trouble, indeed. Okay, Blossom.
[00:52:07] Blossom Feiteira: You know, one of the things that um have always come across as far as us going out into the community and educating on on independence, on an independent Hawaii was, is it a real thing? Um, we say that your vision can only be limited by your potential. Okay. If this is what you want, then you must go for it and achieve it. And however however many small steps you have to take and you you need to take everything that is around you into consideration. Um, there is no reason why we cannot achieve a full fully independent society on Hawaii, um unless we ourselves decide that's not what we want. And for right now, under the terms of the Hawaii constitution, which is promulgated in in 1995, our Kupuna said, this is what we want and that is how we will proceed.
[00:52:56] Speaker 1: Okay. And Edwin uh uh for your benefit and those uh others who may have joined us late, you can tune in tonight on KIFO 1380 AM at 8 o'clock and hear the entire show uh replayed. I will. Thank you, Edwin. We really appreciate your call. Okay. Anyone who uh who tuned in late, I want to reintroduce our our three guests in the studio. This is Pop Radio and we're talking about sovereignty. We have Kekuni Blazedel, who's the convener of Kapau Kalcow, practicing physician, and internist and hematologist, who also is a professor at the University of Hawaii School of Law. We have School of Medicine. School of Medicine. Wrong school. Oh my god. You you caught me. Uh we have Blossom Fatera, who is the acting head of state of the nation of Hawaii.
[00:53:45] Speaker 1: She's Kanaka Maoli from Maui and has been actively involved in the sovereignty movement since 1989. She's also been very active in the community, serving on many boards and associations. And then Kaelii Gora, who is the Oahu Island Chair of Kalahui, Hawaii, a native initiative of Hawaiian sovereignty. As Oahu Poo, he presides over an elected council of 32 members representing various districts of the island. We've got people on the line, but we do have some open lines and we have about 10 minutes left. So if anyone would like to get in line to ask a question or make a brief comment, all you have to do is call 955-8821. And finally, if you'd like to see what we think will be a report on tonight's Channel 2 News at 6 and 10, Manolo Morales is here with Bob the cameraman taking some footage, and we think on Channel 2 you'll see a a nice report on today's radio show.
[00:54:42] Speaker 1: So we move to Bob on Maui. Good morning, Bob.
[00:54:46] Bob: Bob, are you there? Do we have Bob on Maui on the phone? Hello. There you are. I'm here. You're on the air, Bob. Uh, I'll hang up after this brief uh comment and quick question for all of them. Um, putting the economy aside and putting uh, you know, what they want to do with the land aside, how does sovereignty um for all these groups plan to succeed if they're not united? I mean, we've got so many factions of different groups wanting sovereignty out there, um and they all want different things. It doesn't seem to me that unless they're united, this isn't going to work.
[00:55:23] Speaker 1: Let's get a let's get a response to uh to that comment. Kekuni?
[00:55:28] Kekuni Blaisdell: Yes, so one of one of the reasons for Kapau Cow is to continue to work toward unity and developing a united front against the oppressive colonial establishment. And so we support all efforts, including Kalahui, step by step and the nation of Wait, as long as that final goal and option is kept open and never foreclosed, and that is Kua Independence.
[00:55:57] Speaker 1: Kekuni, do you feel like um a focus is developing that that the groups are coming together?
[00:56:03] Kekuni Blaisdell: Indeed.
[00:56:04] Speaker 1: Okay. Blossom, any thoughts?
[00:56:06] Blossom Feiteira: Um um as Kekuni stated, Kapau Cow was created to be the forum to bring all the different groups together and share Monao. How I know that is that my activity into the sovereignty movement started in Kapau Cow. In relation to this other groups, the common goal is what we're looking at and we are all working towards sovereignty. How we do that, we may differ in how we do that, but the approach is the same. And even though for the nation of Hawaii, we support total independence and Kalahui Hawaii supports a nation within a nation status, before that we're both Kanaka Maoli, and as a result of that, we support each other. Our political differences will be out there in the public, but as native people, we have that link already. We have no choice but to support each other.
[00:57:00] Kalei: friendly and uh we're working on how much we brothers and sisters. Ka la hu we have a East master plan called Ho'okupu a Kalei, Ho'okupu a Kalei, our second portion in our plan really discusses a cultural approach of which we call consensus building. We support this primarily because we like all the groups to come together and, you know, address particulars such as land issues and then have a weekend on that where all the groups can come together and incorporate their particular mana'o and come to consensus thereby building a very solid, you know, foundation. And we have called upon the groups. Let's talk about this and let's come to consensus. It's in our written plan in our master plan.
[00:57:45] Kalei: With respect to the unity issue, it's really funny that um everybody thinks that, you know, Hawaiians have to be unified. But you know, I look at just the in Congress and I was there in Washington D.C. just last week and the House of Representatives were just, you know, going crazy. The Democrats, the Republicans, the libertarians, the non-partisans, you know, and they're all Americans. Are they all united?
[00:58:10] Grant: I think you've made your point very, very well. Okay, we go to Grant in Honolulu. Good morning, Grant. Good morning. Yes. My question is for Kalei of Kalu Hawaii, and in regards to the nation within a nation status, but open to full independence, perhaps down the line when it is more realistic. And in regards to mentioning under the nation within a nation, there would be a non-voting status for Kanaka Maoli. And I was wondering that if full independence was achieved, would non-Kanaka Maoli achieve full voting rights since that would be the only government they'd be under?
[00:58:46] Kalei: Yeah, and and I'd like to broaden that out just a little bit. Briefly, where do each of you see non-Hawaiians fitting into your respective visions of sovereignty, Kalei? As I mentioned earlier, and thank you for the question, Kalu's constitution bestows upon honorary citizenship to those who are of non-Hawaiian ancestry. We entitle them to participate in all of our deliberations and committee work, etc. However, they're not entitled to vote at this particular time. In the in the future, that the nation, the legislature of Kalu Hawaii enacts laws which would allow the vote, you know, for non-Hawaiians. That's a decision still yet to be made.
[00:59:29] Blossom Feiteira: Okay. Blossom for the Nation of Hawaii? Yeah, that's really interesting because under the terms of our constitution, um, Nakupona has decided that as citizens of an independent Hawaii, all people should be have the opportunity to participate in government. Therefore, in the legislative process, um, we do provide for non-Hawaiians to hold seats. We also allow non-Hawaiians to hold um positions in the cabinet and in the executive administration. It was felt that the only way to be inclusive and to provide for a fully independent Hawaii was to provide for equality among our citizens, both provide uh voting rights to non-Hawaiians.
[01:00:12] Kikuni: Kikuni? Yes. Well, we invite uh non-Kanaka Maoli to join us. And as long as they adhere to the principles of reverence and compassion and our traditional culture, then they're with us and we're with them.
[01:00:29] Kalei: Okay. Kalei just very briefly because we've got five callers and four minutes. Quickly um from a historical standpoint, you know, this is what overthrew the government was primarily because 90% of Lili'u's cabinet was non-Hawaiian. And again, they didn't incorporate their cultural and traditional values. To make this, you know, drastic change, those who are of non-Hawaiian into our cultural system, it takes many, many years and a commitment and dedication that they need to really prove to us before Kalu decides that non-Hawaiians will be participating in our voting process as well as our elections.
[01:01:07] Kikuni: Okay. We're rapidly running out of time. What I'm going to try to do is go to at least a few of the callers who've been patiently waiting and just ask in a few sentences if you could express your concern and then we'll we'll move on just so that we can hear your voice. First uh Mike in Manoa. Mike, very briefly, just a few seconds. What's your your concern or your interest? Okay, comment. Mivan, come back. Hawaii needs you even if the law school doesn't think it does. Maybe with the worst health statistics they're in prison, they're on welfare, they're on the beach. And as Kikuni I think correctly points out, colonialism and capitalism are the problems and yet Kalu doesn't seem to think it's necessary to deal with the underlying problems. It's just the system that they they they want to run themselves.
[01:01:52] Kalei: Mike, thank you for your call. Kikuni, I know has lots of of statistics.
[01:01:58] Kikuni: Kalei certainly doesn't agree with the comment you just made. Jay from Hawaii, Jay, very, very briefly, what's your concern?
[01:02:06] Jay: My concern is that facing the illustrious speakers you have today, they're very knowledgeable, but I have very precise to add that the Hawaiian people was originally migrated from Tahiti, and this is as far as we know.
[01:02:27] Kikuni: Jay, you're going to have to make it in five seconds. We're simply running out of time.
[01:02:31] Jay: Secondly, that they also want to think about the mood of Kamehameha, the great, how he unified Hawaii. Thirdly, the Hawaii state has lots of people stay here more than 20 years. The new generations, so all these things must be considered when they talk about Hawaii.
[01:02:54] Kikuni: Okay. Thank you, Jay. Larry from Makiki, very, very quickly.
[01:02:58] Larry: Yeah, I'll be I'll be quick. Um, if the uh this is a question for Kalu if if they can't answer it in the short time, um, if the US Senate did not uh pass by two thirds vote the annexation of Hawaii and the vote of for statehood in 1952, you had to say your American citizen to do it, then it's quite likely that Hawaii isn't part of the United States legally according to the Constitution. So what about the state within a state point of view then?
[01:03:28] Kikuni: You know but we're dealing with legal colonialism that's taking place right now not only here nationally, but internationally.
[01:03:35] Larry: Okay. Larry, two out of three agree with you and you just heard that response. We've completely run out of time. 10 seconds. What's the phrase or the thought you want to leave us with?
[01:03:48] Kikuni: Omo, Houomo, and reinvite all of you to join in the movement.
[01:03:55] Kalei: Take a look at Kalu's Ho'okupu a Kalei, our master plan which is a masterpiece for self-governance for the Hawaiian people.
[01:04:05] Blossom Feiteira: Educate yourself, inform yourself and get involved.
[01:04:09] Kikuni: Okay. Uh I want to thank my guests. This was the first of three shows on sovereignty. Next week, we have the skeptics and the critics of sovereignty. The week after that we're going to get into a number of issues on the periphery of sovereignty. Our producer is Susie Roth, our director of operations is Jeff Ilarity. Uh Alia Yap and Wally Roth helped us with the show. Our sponsor is Hawaii Community Foundation, a an extremely important organization to uh the state of Hawaii. You've been listening to the Price of Paradise radio show. We call it Pop Radio. I'm Randy Roth. Aloha.
[01:03:49] Speaker 1: Mahalo, moa and reinvite all of you to join in the movement.
[01:03:55] Speaker 2: Kay Ali'i?
[01:03:56] Speaker 1: Take a look at Kalahui Hawaii's, our Kalahui Hawaii, our master plan, which is a masterpiece for self-governance for the Hawaiian people.
[01:04:04] Speaker 2: Awesome.
[01:04:05] Speaker 1: Educate yourself, inform yourself, and get involved.
[01:04:08] Speaker 2: Okay. I want to thank my guests. This was the first of three shows on sovereignty. Next week, we have the skeptics and the critics of sovereignty. The week after that, we're going to get into a number of issues on the periphery of sovereignty. Our producer is Susie Roth, our director of operations is Jeff Ilarity, uh Aliyah Yap and Wally Roth helped us with the show. Our sponsor is Hawaii Community Foundation, uh an extremely important organization to uh the state of Hawaii. You've been listening to The Price of Paradise Radio Show. We call it Pop Radio. I'm Randy Roth. Aloha.
[NOTE: music outro 321s]