K-12 Education in Hawaii
Price of Paradise · Hawaii Public Radio · aired 1996-05-26
Guests: James Scott (President, Punahou School)
Duration: 1:05:41

[00:00:01] Randall Roth: Aloha. This is Randy Roth, host of the Price of Paradise Radio Show. We're broadcast each Sunday morning on KHPR 88.1 FM and KKUA 90.7 FM and then rebroadcast Sunday evenings on KIFO 1380 AM. Everyone who works to bring Pop Radio to you is a volunteer who believes in the importance of lively and informed dialogue. Our sponsor is the Hawaii Community Foundation. Today's topic is education in Hawaii, and my guest in the studio is Dr. James Scott. He's the son of Shirley Moss Clark and the late Joseph K. Buddy Scott, who was a member of the class the Punahou class of 1943 and a member of the Big Island Purdy and Lindsey families. Jim was born in Honolulu, attended Punahou from kindergarten on through high school, graduating in 1970.
[00:00:52] Randall Roth: He was a student body president at Punahou and co-captain of the varsity baseball team. He went on to Stanford University, graduated in 1975 with an AB in political science, and then from Stanford joined the faculty of the Robert Lewis Stevenson School in Pebble Beach, California, rose through that school's professional faculty ranks to become academic dean. During his tenure at Stevenson, he earned an MA degree in private school leadership at the University of San Francisco. After eight years at the Stevenson School, he entered Harvard University to work on his doctorate degree in administration, planning, and social policy, earned his master's degree in that field in 1985 and his doctorate in 1991. Prior to coming to Punahou, Jim was headmaster of Carlin Gable School in Portland, Oregon. Jim, good morning.
[00:01:39] James Scott: Good morning.
[00:01:41] Randall Roth: I uh read with great interest your article in this morning's advertiser, and listeners who haven't seen it, it's on page three. The headline says, New independent public schools operate a lot like private schools. Well, you're the uh president of Punahou, a private school, but as you indicate in your article, uh as a taxpayer, citizen and educator, you have a vital interest in uh all education in Hawaii and education generally. One of the things that caught my eye from the article that um uh I'm not an educator, at least not uh at the level that you are, and it struck me as kind of an intelligent list of of the qualities that we look for. Could you just tell us a little bit about what you put there and and why?
[00:02:24] James Scott: And the qualities of an effective school. Right. Well, I think both as uh both public teachers and private school teachers would agree on what makes an effective school, the visionary teachers and administrators who really have the freedom and the autonomy uh and the encouragement to implement um their vision. A school with high expectations, a school that also develops active learning as well as the development of character. I think most of us would agree that the school should be student-centered and that they should also be uh teacher inspired, where you put trust in teachers.
[00:02:59] Randall Roth: You you mention uh developing character and and I think in terms of of teaching values which I think is is kind of a controversial sort of thing. Um how do you teach character?
[00:03:12] James Scott: Well, I think at Punaho we refer to it as the education of the heart. Um both the wit and character of young people. I think if you can help young people to become more other-centered, to understand their responsibility to their classmates, their own school committee and their city and the world, then that other-centeredness I think leads to greater social responsibility and hopefully higher character.
[00:03:36] Randall Roth: I noticed I I stopped by your office the other day to drop something off, and uh on the door there were a number of words. Uh, you know what I'm talking about the respect and Right. Very quickly, what's that all about?
[00:03:49] James Scott: Well, through our Chapel program in Punaho in the last couple of years, we've uh tried to develop a curriculum around the value of the month. And so respect and responsibility and honesty and courage are uh some examples of some of the things we've talked about this year.
[00:04:03] Randall Roth: You you know, I've got to tell you if if I weren't a parent of a of some kids in at Punaho, I would think that would be a little hokey and the kids would probably have a good laugh at that. My impression is they don't.
[00:04:14] James Scott: Well, I think that uh if you develop it school-wide, and if you have a senior class like we have this year, who sets a sets a good tone uh with it. And if you develop it around the chapel program where the kids, every kid and every teacher in the school uh attends a weekly uh chapel program and you implement it throughout the school in the areas of their life beyond chapel, I think it works.
[00:04:35] Randall Roth: Well, we get to the more controversial part of of all of this, uh when we leave the the sphere of of private education uh and start talking about public education, and you mention in your article that uh that there is a a debate and it's probably worldwide, but certainly on a national level, people have been talking about how to make public education better. And whether you start from the premise that something is broken or it isn't broken, I think everybody would like to to make public education better. And you come down with two fundamental concepts, decentralization and choice. Tell us just a little bit about each one.
[00:05:12] James Scott: Well, when you summarize all of the school improvement strategies the last 10 or 15 years, they do come down to two strategies, um choice, um how to give parents a greater choice and control over their schools as well as teachers. And also how do you put power and authority and control and decision-making back into the school building and back into the hands of teachers and principals. And so, uh when you took when you take a look at those those strategies, I have I noticed that those are two concepts or assumptions that private schools have made for a long time. That um families choose us. Um they are invested in that choice and we are invested in making that choice um a well-considered one and also making our program and our school worthy of that continued confidence in choice.
[00:06:02] Randall Roth: So you you have to compete, right? And uh decentralization?
[00:06:08] James Scott: Well, I think that if you if you um put power and authority and decision making into the hands of visionary teachers, I think that not only morale will go up but I think uh the improvement of education will go up. Again, and that's something that most private schools have taken for granted for a long time.
[00:06:24] Randall Roth: So in private schools, generally, the teachers have had more direct input and and have been able to shape the program itself as compared to the public schools?
[00:06:34] James Scott: Well, when I hire teachers and when our principals hire teachers, we're looking for people who are creative, inspiring, but also can entertain an idea and people who are good collaborators. It all assumes that they're going to have an awful lot of responsibility and autonomy in choosing curriculum uh for their classroom.
[00:06:52] Randall Roth: Okay. Well, you talk about decentralization and choice and how those are the the fundamental assumptions of private school governance and and you've had to to deal with these over a long period of time. And it kind of builds to to I guess the suggestion and that is that we as a community take a hard look at something called charter schools. Right. What's that all about?
[00:07:13] James Scott: Well, charter schools first developed in the mainland about three or four years ago. They're only a couple hundred nationwide uh in about 19 states that have charter school legis legislation. Essentially what we're trying to do there is is to make um um public schools more independent. You fund uh schools directly through uh student enrollment dollars. A charter, an agreement between a governing body and the school is made, and that school is held accountable through a penalty of non-renewal for specified student performance and outcomes. The key, though, is that it's that a charter school is usually exempt from most state regulations except for issues of health and safety, etc. They're non-selective, they're non-religious, they're tuition-free, and I think most importantly, parents have a choice to choose them.
[00:08:02] Randall Roth: You know, it kind of sounds to me like like privatization coming from the other direction, when we talk about privatization, I think a lot of times we we talk about the private sector doing it. And in here, it's it's really a public school, or at least it starts out as as a public school, but there is an element of privatization, isn't there?
[00:08:19] James Scott: I think that's why charter schools are worth our closer consideration, that um if you have an opportunity to improve school from within, rather than reformers, um or legislators trying to school trying to im improve schools from the outside, what you might want to do is to change the governance to allow people within schools uh to have the flexibility to improve them from within.
[00:08:41] Randall Roth: So, public school teachers and administrators who who might feel threatened or have reason to have an initial negative reaction to different forms of privatization uh presumably would be a lot more open to something like charter schools.
[00:08:55] James Scott: I would I would hope so, and that's where when I when I saw the concept of charter schools uh starting to develop in the mainland several years ago, what attracted to me, what I what I was attracted to was the the combination of choice and decentralization um with no added dollars. And also what I what I look forward to is is the is the opportunity for public and private school teachers to be working together, talk about good teaching, what constitutes important learning and how do you improve schools.
[00:09:22] Randall Roth: I especially like that about your article. You were saying you'd like to see the line that historically has has been drawn between public and private schools, you'd like to see that blurred.
[00:09:30] James Scott: I think we can especially do that in Hawaii. With the large uh percentage of students attending private schools, private schools um have an influence here unlike any other state. And I think we have an opportunity to use that to work with our public school counterparts in improvement of education for all kids.
[00:09:48] Randall Roth: Well, I want to remind listeners that this is the Price of Paradise Radio Show. My name is Randy Roth and I'm in the studio with Dr. James Scott, who's the President of Punaho School. We're talking about education in Hawaii. As regular listeners know, this is a call in show. So if you would like to ask Jim a question or if you'd like to make a comment and hear his response to it, our number is 955-8821. If you're on a neighbor island, you just dial 1-800-955-8821. And if you tuned in late, you can catch the show in its entirety tonight at 8 o'clock on KIFO 1380 AM. Again, if you'd like to ask a question or make a brief comment, just call us at 955-8821.
[00:10:30] Randall Roth: Jim, what are the downsides? Uh typically anything that's good is going to carry a a few negatives with it. Charter schools, any downsides?
[00:10:41] James Scott: Well, I think some of the literature um I I think the jury is still still out because most of the current charter schools have charters from three to five years and so they're we're, you know, the only uh research we have is mostly anecdotal. I think there would be some concern that you're shifting public dollars um away from current schools. I think there is concern that you might leave some teachers and kids vulnerable, the uncertainty about competition. As much as I value competition, other other people may may see it as a threat. And I think there are probably some people would see the downside of experimentation, where I see that as positive and as an opportunity, I think that uh um schools that are uh decentralized and experimenting on their own could could be a concern for some folks.
[00:11:26] Randall Roth: You mentioned that that there have been several hundred of these on the mainland, they haven't been around for a long time, so we don't have a great track record out there, but has the the initial uh feedback been positive, negative, or is it just too early?
[00:11:39] James Scott: I think it's too it's too early, but in the in the 19 states that have passed legis legislation, the ones like Arizona and California, whose legislation has been a little more liberal, I think [unintelligible — audio glitch] opportunity for more diversity, um a partnership between some public and private schools, partnerships with colleges and universities. There have been some foundation and corporate money supporting schools in Michigan and in Cali in California. There's an international school that I was fascinated by in Arizona and also in uh Massa in Massachusetts. You've had Montessori kindergartens springing up in public school, so valuing the diversity as well as having the opportunity within those schools to innovate, and to share the innovation with other public schools, I think is is uh creating the freedom for teachers to create within their own public schools.
[00:12:29] Randall Roth: And I guess that's what choice is all about. Instead of having one curriculum set by a highly centralized DOE and every public school out there kind of going by the book, you've got a lot of choices. Right. Well, let's go to a caller, first Bobby from Kiki. Good morning, Bobby.
[00:12:44] Caller: Good morning, and good morning, Jim. I think maybe that uniforms might help to decrease the competition and teach the kids to judge people more by who they are and not what they are. I'd love a comment from you. Thank you.
[00:13:03] James Scott: I've been opposed to school uniforms. There's some there's some people would say there is a school uniform in Punaho, all the kids tend to dress the same and everything, but uh uh when I went through school, I think there were issues of dress dress codes uh that were the concern of parents and and uh some of the administrators and teachers. My own feeling about that is that that if if we can get to if we can focus uh not on not on uniforms, but for um um the opportunities for teaching and learning, um creating a school climate and a community where teachers and and students have mutual respect for one another. Um, yeah, I can I I've never worked in a public school and so I can I can see where maybe some people may may think that may be an option, but I at least in in my own experience in three private schools, I I have not seen a uniforms as an option.
[00:13:53] Caller: All right. Thank you very much.
[00:13:55] Randall Roth: Thank you, Bobby. Well, I knew this is going to be controversial. I didn't uh I really expected that that you'd be a supporter of school uniforms. Interesting. Okay, well let's go to Karen in Waipahu. Good morning, Karen.
[00:14:07] Caller: Good morning. Morning. Hi. Um the reason why I called is because I understand that five years ago at Punaho you had changed your curriculum basically to the a whole language approach. And um I was I was I wanted to um get your um input as to um the hole between the whole language approach and the traditional method of teaching. And um I've heard that the whole language approach was a pretty much a disaster, especially in California, and I wanted to know whether Punaho um was was um thinking about changing it to the traditional method, or are you um well I just basically wanted your your um your input on as to how you were going to change or whether you're going to stay with the whole language approach.
[00:14:57] Randall Roth: Karen, this is Randy Roth, and just so I understand, when you talk about the traditional approach, are you talking about phonics? Is this the why Johnny can't read controversy?
[00:15:06] Caller: Yes. Yes. Okay.
[00:15:07] Randall Roth: Jim?
[00:15:10] James Scott: I have to um say that I don't have an opinion on the issue yet. Um I if if I had my junior school principal or the supervisors of my lower grades, I'd uh hear they'd be able to answer the question. I do, I think in answer to your question, generally, do expect my teachers and my administrators and my entire faculty be to be constantly reviewing and examining the curriculum so that we don't get necessarily stuck in one in one issue. That I think that that there are a lot of methods. I think that um the uh the current focus in in student learning rather than student teaching, I think is is of interest to me, and I and I think to the extent that Punaho teachers are constantly looking at what's best for for kids is important to me.
[00:15:54] James Scott: So I can't tell you specifically where where we stand on that on that issue.
[00:15:58] Caller: Oh okay. Thank you.
[00:16:02] Randall Roth: You know, one of of my kids at Punaho is in a program and I'm not even sure what the initial stand for, but it's Ice ICE. And it's it's a combination of courses that would normally be taught separately and they're somehow put together, and I got to tell you as a as a parent, it's it's forced him to engage in some critical thinking that I'm just amazed that that you've gotten out of uh this particular kid and evidently his cohorts. Tell me a little bit about that in terms of curriculum innovation.
[00:16:30] James Scott: I think um most schools tend to separate subjects and disciplines so that they have very little connection to one another. So we turn them into little scholars and little linguists and little uh his mathematicians and scientists and his historians and artists, but I think our responsibility as a school is to look for the connections between those disciplines and helping kids to integrate them. So in in there's and there's a debate on the faculty now about whether that's traditional or non-traditional. Um, but I think that that we should be constantly countercultural, I think in looking at the possibilities beyond what we're doing.
[00:17:07] Randall Roth: I I get the impression impression that you delight in not dictating to your faculty, you delight in challenging them to come up with something new and different and to defend it and and to give it a try.
[00:17:18] James Scott: Well, I think good ideas uh bubble up, but they also filter down. And I think Punaho at at Punaho, there's a there's a wonderful dance in terms of the the creative tension in making that work. I essentially believe that curriculum bubbles up and so I put a lot of trust in teachers.
[00:17:35] Randall Roth: Sounds great. Let's go to Margaret in Kayohe. Good morning, Margaret.
[00:17:39] Caller: Good morning.
[00:17:40] Randall Roth: What do you have for Dr. Scott?
[00:17:41] Caller: Um I have two comments. I've been a uh public school teacher here for some 30 years and I'm a strong supporter of the public education system, and I support school, uh I respect their what they do there. However, um two things that seem to get lost every time there's um sort of a public-private debate, one and particularly with choice, when people say that people have a choice to send their children to private schools. However, in if they don't shape up there academically or behaviorally, where do those kids get end up on where do they end up? They end up back in the public school system. We have to take care of these kids who quote, flunk out from private schools.
[00:18:22] Randall Roth: Margaret, I know you got another point. I'm going to I'm going to come back to you but let me get Jim's reaction to to your first point and then we'll take your second.
[00:18:32] James Scott: I think I think you're absolutely right, and so I'm not going to debate you on that, but I I want your comment. Yeah, because um I I think that's that becomes the wrapper on private private schools, that that the other part of choice is that we can choose to retain kids. At the same time, I have I have seen um a broad range of kids educated in all our private schools in Hawaii where we're doing an excellent job. Um but I
[00:19:00] Caller: point on that.
[00:19:01] James Scott: Your other point, Margaret?
[00:19:02] Caller: And the other uh the other point was that here in Hawaii where so many people go to um private schools that essentially um I feel that a lot of the cream, even though we have a lot of top students in uh public schools, a lot of the cream is taken from the say the top to the average students, which then of uh course kind of lower the average of the um uh public schools just simply because of the kinds of students that are uh going to those schools, not because the students for a large part are any worse than they are there, but we do have a lot of the, you know, the uh lower achieving students in the um public schools.
[00:19:42] James Scott: I find that trend alarming and that's why, you know, [unintelligible — audio glitch] two years people have been asking me publicly how Puno is going to improve public education. And I've dodged that question thinking that Puno needs to improve itself first. We're not the best that we can be. At the same time, [unintelligible — audio glitch] trends that you're talking about and the disparity between the public and private schools is alarming enough for for me where I feel as I will say to my seniors next Saturday when they graduate, that they and this school has a social responsibility uh for that issue. So my my article about charter schools, I think begins to forge a a common direction that has the opportunity for collaboration and partnerships that are that are very very real. If public schools are allowed to be governed more like I will not I'm more like private schools.
[00:20:32] Caller: Okay, thank you.
[00:20:33] James Scott: Thank you. Thank you, Margaret.
[00:20:34] Caller: Bye bye.
[00:20:35] James Scott: You know, Jim, as you were responding to to Margaret's comments, um it reminded me of of an article. Oh, I think it was six, eight, maybe nine months ago in the local papers talking about a a national study saying that on the mainland, a public school teacher was more likely to send his or her own kids to a public school than to a private school. But on this island, on Oahu, a public school teacher is four times as likely to send his or her own children to a private school. And to me, that's alarming when you've got folks who are the best consumers, the ones closest to the product to know what's going on, who are voting with with their feet, who are making the sacrifices necessary to pay the high tuition. Any thoughts on that?
[00:21:23] James Scott: My thought is that probably only reflects the Hawaii demographics as well. There's they're um everyone's four times more likely to send their kids to private school here. No, it it it's uh four times as compared to the to the parent who doesn't teach in in the public school. It's a it's a really alarming statistic. I'm sure there are other possible explanations, but um uh it's more than than just saying that every parent is four times as likely. Scary. It is. Okay, let's go to Dr. Lord, I believe it is in Waikiki. Good morning.
[00:21:57] Caller: Hey, good morning. Uh I just wondered why we just don't have a a fantastic educational teaching, of course, for functional education, tailor-made education, product-centered education, education for what is real. No two people are alike and then teaching the virtues, fortitude, temperance, justice, courage, prudence, wisdom, understanding, and knowledge, knowledge in the sense that uh truth, the undeniable truth. And then the classics uh Plato, Socrates, Spinoza, Schopenhauer, Hume, uh these would give them not only the ability to dialectize through the Socratic argumentation, so they'll give them confidence uh so they go on and no matter what the subject, why they would be able to expand and uh make Hawaii really proud.
[00:22:44] James Scott: Let me get a reaction to that, Jim. Well, I think that um every school should have higher expectations for for kids, and I and and I think that it's uh uh that, you know, you're you've just articulated one point of view [unintelligible — audio glitch] think it's that that type of curriculum is excellent. I'm probably in favor of more of a broad curriculum, uh one that uh prepares kids not only for work but uh for for life as well. Puno [unintelligible — audio glitch] school that uh prepares kids for college, and so that like a lot of other private and some public schools, there's more of a traditional curriculum. I think it's uh it's probably probably not to the extent that you have just articulated.
[00:23:25] James Scott: You know, one of the things that that Dr. Lord commented on reminded me of some remarks that were attributed to Governor Cayetano, not long ago. I think it was the Star Bulletin had done an interview with him, and uh he had said something to the effect that um the curriculum in Hawaii isn't relevant enough, that it's focused on getting kids ready for college, but his comment was most of the kids that get out of our high schools, our public high schools don't go on to college, so it has to be more real, more technical, more vocational. Um I think that's the a part of this issue. What do you think, Jim? I think that uh, you know, if if you look at some of the trends that are happening in states on the mainland, I just left a state in Oregon where um they are making kids choose by their sophomore year whether it's a vocational route or it's a college prep route. On on on one hand, I think the American public and private school education has fought that, you know, for for years, but at the same time, I a a focus and then providing the diversity within that focus, you know, might might be a way to a way to go. Another form of choice.
[00:24:25] James Scott: Okay. Dr. Lord, are you still there?
[00:24:26] Caller: Yes. I I think it's very important to teach the virtues of fortitude, temperance, justice, courage. Yes. We have crime rising, we have youngsters uh not really familiar with the results of smoking and drinking and narcotics and those things could be taught in a scientific way that would boggle their minds and they'd never get involved there. Also, the importance, teaching dynamic education, uh in Connecticut, they take someone who has the charisma to uh fascinate the students and they put them on a monitor and the rest of the teachers just get in there and talk because they don't have that ability. Uh education should be so fascinating that the children don't go to sleep. They want their their desire their ambition, uh uh they uh actually compete uh in the the classroom because uh they're excited about the topic.
[00:25:14] James Scott: Dr. Lord, you got me excited about this. Obviously he's a passionate supporter of this. Jim, a reaction then we have to move on. My last comment about that because I really like what you have to say is that if you can if you can give teachers the autonomy and the control and the decision making within their own their own classroom, I think that would allow them to become more inspiring as well. Oh, interesting. Thank you Dr. Lord, we congratulations. We appreciate your call. Bye bye. Let's go to Bill from Kailua. Good morning, Bill.
[00:25:38] Caller: Good morning, gentlemen. I had the good fortune to go to one of the finest schools in in the East and which which is celebrating its 100th anniversary uh this year. And uh that so to speak for its uh effectiveness. Uh my my reason for calling is that I happen to be my family was in the in a less affluent state than many of the other children in at the school. Because it was a it was it was so highly regarded that all the people of wealth wanted to send their children to this school and my parents strained to for a point and got me sent me there. However, they couldn't cope with with [unintelligible — audio glitch] dress uh habits of the the other children. And I felt this acutely. I I really felt that I was not uh dressed as the others were and uh I So uniforms would be a a good way to address that.
[00:26:34] Caller: I believe uniforms are appropriate because it brings brings the children to a single level and in that particular phase and uh it tends so so that they don't have the competitive business of of wearing something better than somebody else.
[00:26:55] James Scott: Okay, Bill. Let's get uh Jim's reaction to that, and Jim, I know earlier you said you've not been a supporter of that. Any additional thoughts? I I like your point, and I and I as I as I think about how it might apply to my school now, um the opposite is true in that uh the kids are dressing down, they're not dressing up. So we have, you know, hundreds of kids at Puno who are on financial aid who perceive before they come to Puno and because they're less able, or they think they're less able financially that they're going to be underdressed. They find that they're more overdressed. And so we have at least right now in the 90s at Puno and in most other other schools a situation where the opposite is true. Although I hear and understand your point.
[00:27:37] Caller: Well, it can work both ways, so that I think there's that you have an argument for the uniform in what you said.
[00:27:42] James Scott: Bill, we appreciate your call. We really do. I I've got to move on. Thank you. We go to Ed in Makiki. Good morning, Ed.
[00:27:50] Caller: Good morning, very good program as usual. Just one comment. I grew up in Maui back in prehistory. The isolationism effect of or you might say people in the islands here, for example, is Hawaiian returned to the Hawaiian nation movement here. It's an inward introverted, whereas most of the educational needs are should be extrovertive uh toward the rest of the world. Would you like to comment on that?
[00:28:16] James Scott: Jim? Yeah, I I think that um especially living on an island um these um anyone who comes from the mainland or goes to the mainland becomes our our window [unintelligible — audio glitch] outside. I think your point about isolation, I think is critical, especially if you if you preach and want to live and learn in a learning community, I think, yeah, you should have lots of windows to the outside. So, I think the isolationism is a concern that I have, and the reason that we're we're spending more dollars on the professional development of our teachers is to get them not just off the island, but into other schools on the island. And I think that one of the concerns that I have is the isolation [unintelligible — audio glitch] private schools have from one another, and especially private schools have from public schools.
[00:29:04] Caller: Thank you.
[00:29:05] James Scott: Thank you. Want to remind listeners that you're listening to the Price of Paradise Radio Show. We call it Pop Radio. Our topic this morning is Education in Hawaii, and we're talking to Dr. James Scott, who's the president of Puno School. He's just concluding his second year there at the Helm. If you'd like to ask a question or make a brief comment, just call us at 9558821.
[00:31:52] Randall Roth: And I once lived in the islands in the mid 60s and was a teacher at Mid Pacific Institute.
[00:31:56] James Scott: Okay. Well, great. Uh what can you share with us this morning on this topic?
[00:32:00] Randall Roth: Well, I want to share from the perspective of a minister who has worked with several people, one very publicly, Marion Frederick, who had called on the services of Jack Kevorkian. Marion had asked uh several physicians to be of assistance to her and she had been unsatisfied with their answers and eventually decided that she wanted to seek Jack's help and did. And I was present at the time that that Marion took her life with his assistance. One of the things that I have learned from this is that there it's not just pain that is at issue. There is a level of suffering that goes beyond pain. Marion was terrified of what was happening to her. She had Lou Gehrig's disease. She was within a very short time, I I don't know specific days or weeks, but she was rapidly losing the capacity to write and that was the only way she had of communicating. She hadn't spoken in 18 months because of the Lou Gehrig's disease. And she was terrified of having a good mind, her mind was fine, trapped in a ruined body. And the way she saw to get out of this was to choose her own dying before time and she was unable because of her physical debilitation to take her own life, and therefore she needed the assistance of a competent person. I can assure you that she was in the best spirit that she could be in and had been since her diagnosis once she learned the moment when she would have to suffer no more and she spent a week with her family that was I think a beautiful week for her.
[00:33:25] James Scott: Stay on the line. Uh I know that SY10 disagrees very strongly um with the suggestions that the suggestion that physician assisted suicide is a as a good thing. SY, why don't you respond to what Kenneth has said and then we'll give him a a chance to close.
[00:33:44] Caller: We face uh rarely and unfortunately, so such tragic cases. And these are difficult cases, and I I do not mean to to downplay the importance of the seriousness [unintelligible — audio glitch] feelings of of such individuals. But uh and when we when we recognize that loss of control and loss of self-esteem and suffering are very important components uh in addition to pain, I I couldn't agree with you more. However, having said all that, one can uh um quickly respond uh by pointing out to uh a wider danger uh when we legalize uh mercy killing just across the board, because I think the more vulnerable in society, the poor, the aged, the elderly will will become unwilling victims. And if we talk about seeking the care of someone competent, I think Kavorkian would be a a horrible example because what he shows um what emerges looking at the cases, the 26 or 27 cases that he's done uh conjure an image [unintelligible — audio glitch] uh of uh someone who's interested in sensationalism, um someone who's very defiant. Uh who's he's actually promised not to do any more such acts. And uh
[00:35:02] James Scott: 9558821. We've got a few lines open, and so we would welcome your call. Jim, we've been talking about education generally, and uh the last thing I want to do is turn this into a infomercial for for Puno. But Puno has far more people uh wanting to get in. I think you have something like 10 applicants for for each slot despite an extremely high tuition, which uh I'm sure doesn't cover the cost of the education and doesn't begin to touch the the value of it. But from the parent standpoint, it's it's a pretty big sacrifice. Um what do you attribute that success to, and I I say success in terms of more people wanting in than what you have space.
[00:35:45] James Scott: Well, part of is is 100 150 years of tradition and a state in which um the private schools were established even before the public school was, so that there is a tradition and there's a legacy of nonpublic education at uh in Hawaii. Much like New England. I think that Puno um offers not only a tradition that is focused on college preparation, but I think that it it likes to believe that it is getting kids ready for life as well. And that's why the balance between the heart and the head. I think uh the value place on extracurricular uh learning as well, so a sports program and an arts program uh that is that is hopefully first first rate. But I think that uh the concern that I have in spite of all that is that Puno faces a complacency uh if if it's uh not more competitive with other private and public schools. When I said in my article that I think that when the when the public schools get better, so will Puno, I really believe that. I believe that Puno should compete.
[00:36:52] James Scott: That resonates with me. I to me when things are going extremely well, that's when you're in in the most trouble. You can get complacent, really. If it's if it's broken if it's not broken, maybe we should break it. Let's go to Bob in Makiki. Good morning, Bob.
[00:37:05] Caller: Hey, good morning, guys. Great topic. Uh having been a teacher since little after the Stone Age, uh I'm one of those who sends both my daughters to a private school as well, and I have a couple of questions. One is, would you please comment on the part of the problem that many of us teachers and a lot of people in general send their children to private school is because it's their hope that they get a better education prepare them for, obviously, higher paying, more technologically skilled jobs, such as medicine, oceanography, education, communication, international finance, so on and so forth. Um, things which Hawaii really doesn't offer because we're so tourist uh based in our economy. What does a a young man or woman have to look forward uh to other other than supporting the tourist industry. That's number one. Number two is the probably the more difficult that if
[00:38:00] Caller: You lived in a certain part of the island that let's say is not economically wealthy or sociologically wealthy. Do you feel that there is a sort of I I hate to use this word, but racism in sending your child to a public school with other children who say come from uh handicapped families. I know this is hard to articulate without sounding bigoted, but I think that's part of the problem.
[00:38:28] Randall Roth: Let's take them one at a time. Jim?
[00:38:30] James Scott: Well, I think the educational system should be linked to economic opportunity and so that when when you uh suggest that there aren't the jobs um in Hawaii that maybe uh both high skilled and high and high paying and that a lot of our kids are leaving the mainland, I think that's just not [unintelligible — audio glitch] educational challenge, it's a statewide challenge. And it concerns all of us. Right. But I like your point there. Your your your second point, [unintelligible — audio glitch] hard for me to react to. I mean, it's you know, [unintelligible — audio glitch] much as you know, and I I grew up in Hawaii and left for 25 years and this is only my second year back. I think the issues of race and ethnicity um um are just are are just slightly below the surface in in really tough in tough ways.
[00:39:14] James Scott: um and so I have not seen or experienced firsthand exactly what you're talking about, but I think I think [unintelligible — audio glitch] is a concern.
[00:39:21] Caller: If Okay, let's let's take race and ethnicity away from let's say people who have are more affluent as opposed to people who are less affluent, and the environments those the young people, the children come from are you know, vastly different. Those who can afford to send their children to a private school as opposed to those who must rely on the public schools. Again, this is this is a tough thing to say and it's probably tough to articulate but if if you could in a very polite way give your opinion on that, do you think that's part of what what compels us to send our children to private school?
[00:39:56] James Scott: I think one of the strengths of a centralized bureaucracy is the um equal allocation of dollars. Mhm. So it's not necessarily a financial issue. McKinley and Roosevelt and Waianae and Kahuku are all getting approximately the same the same dollars and that's one of the benefits of it. But I think uh your concern about uh [unintelligible — audio glitch] one of safety, is what I I mean.
[00:40:18] Caller: That's that's what I'm hearing. That
[00:40:20] James Scott: And that and that if if you really look deep down at what what parents value, it's not it's not the choice, it's not just the educational opportunity but they want their kids to be safe, even in my school. Mhm. So I think that it to the to to the extent that it's related to economics, to the extent that it's related to to race and ethnicity, I think that that um I I think your your point is well taken.
[00:40:43] Caller: Okay, thank you very much.
[00:40:44] James Scott: Thank you, Bob, appreciate your call.
[00:40:46] Randall Roth: Um and we've got some people on the line. I want to get to them real quickly but, Jim, we we just hit the topic of of um safety, uh security. Uh earlier we were talking about discipline. Um if if we started a charter school and if you were the president of that charter school, how would you I know it's a complicated question or the answer is is not simple. But how would you deal with discipline? How would you create a a safe learning environment and and one in which um you know, everyone can thrive?
[00:41:17] James Scott: I think that schools have to create a co a co-curriculum around the issue of community. And that one of the one of the concerns I have about the size of most of our schools, [unintelligible — audio glitch] uh Punahou is the largest private school [unintelligible — audio glitch] country, um is that we're not creating the community within our school so that kids can understand and see the consequences of their behavior. So when whenever we're administering discipline that it even in a place like like Punahou, we are we're constantly reminding kids about their responsibility, not just to themselves, because they're going to take care of themselves pretty well, but their responsibility to one another.
[00:41:54] James Scott: And if that's a value that is part of the curriculum that everyone uh buys into and upholds, I think it's something that, you know, through that sense of community, [unintelligible — audio glitch] improve discipline.
[00:42:05] Randall Roth: We get back to this value of the month uh concept. All right, let's go to Ann in Kailua. Good morning, Ann.
[00:42:10] Caller: Good morning. Thank you. I have a question about um uh language teaching. I'd like to uh commend Punahou for bringing so much international influence to the community. Um and I'd like to know it's a problem nationwide that uh we don't achieve second language competence for for our children and um perhaps we start too little too late. Uh but is there anything that that we can do as we see people in other countries seem to start their children earlier and have them learn second and third languages better than our kids do in America?
[00:42:43] James Scott: As as much as we're doing in language with Punahou and as much as the World International Center has has brought to the school and the community, the debate on our campus still is to what extent [unintelligible — audio glitch] at what age do we push language further further down the uh program. Um and it's an issue in our school that that we're about we're about to debate. And I think the language the language teachers have been pretty pretty specific that if you're going to develop a literacy around language in the same way you do around um numbers and science and even art, um that we need to begin um um sooner and sooner. The debate though, at at Punahou and I think is the case in most most schools too, is is what comes off the plate when you add something else.
[00:43:23] James Scott: And what uh to what extent can you really um build an immersion experience in the language and then on top of that, which language do you teach, which is be which becomes a political debate in our department. But I like your point and I especially um as we're getting kids ready for um a global village and a global interdependence, a command and a proficiency in a second language, I think is um a prerequisite.
[00:43:50] Caller: Thank you.
[00:43:51] James Scott: Thank you.
[00:43:52] Randall Roth: Um along those lines, how hard do you push Hawaiian culture, Hawaiian history, Hawaiian language at Punahou?
[00:44:00] James Scott: I think the culture is pushing itself. I mean, it's uh you know, it's I've I've found that that our our kids are are hungry for um not just an awareness and but an under an understanding and a connection to language, to culture, to history, to traditions. And so we are we've we've got pockets of excellent programs within the Punahou curriculum, the third third grade and parts of the middle school, we have an outstanding Holoku pageant that becomes our May Day program. But I think there that what what the kids are telling me and I I visited with uh several seniors in the last few few weeks is that uh they are they're leaving their school feeling unconnected to a to a part of them that they wish Punahou had connected them better to.
[00:44:40] James Scott: So I um um I don't know if we're pushing it but I think it's it's certainly bubbling up.
[00:44:45] Randall Roth: Sounds good. Let's go to Karen on the Big Island. Good morning, Karen.
[00:44:49] Caller: Hi, good morning. Um I I have two questions. Um one is I was very curious what um what you thought of Waldorf education, and two, my second question is um on the uh on the mainland, um there's a lot more arts and education, and I'm particularly thinking of about um writers who come into the school and teach writing to the children and I have found none of that here and I I wondered um why since Hawaii has its own movement of local writers and um that sort of program could be set up. So, those are my two questions.
[00:45:32] Randall Roth: Great. Let's let's take them one at a time and the first question has to do with with Waldorf education. I happen also to be a a Waldorf parent uh our kids all uh started out at the Waldorf school in in Niu Valley. Um do you know anything about the Waldorf school? I I have to pass on it. I mean, I've I've uh I I know of Waldorf schools, but I don't know enough about the philosophy and that to understand and to be able to our to articulate a point of view.
[00:45:58] James Scott: That might make a great program in the future.
[00:46:00] Randall Roth: Well, real quickly, they get into language quite early. Uh we have a third grader out there who's studied Hawaiian and Japanese and German and and a couple different uh other languages. They start playing musical instruments very early. One year, they play the recorder and another year they're playing the the violin. They have lots of of plays that they get into. Um first grade, I think they specialize in crochet, the the next year it's it's knitting. Uh they have their own garden, they build buildings and that sort of thing. They don't have much time for reading, writing and arithmetic. I mean, obviously something has to give. Um but as you can tell, I'm kind of a believer in that as as a start and it sounds as though Karen uh is as well. How much of that kind of overlaps with how you look at your lower education at Punahou?
[00:46:44] James Scott: Well, I you know, it's it that's that's where I'm closely akin to a Dewey education in terms of experience and experiential education uh [unintelligible — audio glitch] through our through our curriculum. I I think certainly there's a there's a tension between um doing things and reading about it. But I I think to the extent that there can be more of a balance, I think that if if that is a definition of what they're doing in the Waldorf school, I think it's excellent.
[00:47:06] Randall Roth: Okay. What about Karen's uh other question about arts and writing in particular in the school?
[00:47:10] James Scott: Yeah, writing in particular, I mean, I you know, one of the benefits of of being in a private school that you can raise raise money for specific projects. Uh bringing writers to our campus has been a a cost effective way to introduce kids to to writers. It doesn't cost a lot, but if you have a program and you have someone internally who can coordinate uh the schedules of writers and bringing them both uh here in Hawaii and from from the mainland, it's an outstanding program.
[00:47:34] Randall Roth: Okay. Karen, thank you for your call. Our producers put a note in the window that I'm supposed to say we also had kids in the public schools. So uh we're well rounded family in terms of the schools we've supported in Hawaii. We go to Barbara in Saint Louis Heights. Good morning, Barbara.
[00:47:49] Caller: Uh Aloha, this is Ann in Kailua.
[00:47:51] Randall Roth: Well, we just skipped Barbara, but we'll take you, Ann, and then we'll go we'll go back to Barbara.
[00:47:56] Caller: Okay, Aloha. Um uh I'm I would like to propose an idea um for Jim, uh in terms of the curriculum metaphor and the full plate, um lifelong learning. And it seems to me that one way that Punahou could probably uh take a look at some new challenging ideas is to take a look at that concept of uh returning something back to the community. Um you have so many qualified alumni who have had tremendous amount of of experiences included, uh elderly um alumni and I I always thought that something that Punahou might be able to do in the evenings or even after school, and not necessarily only on their campus. But but say communities like Waihole where you have the Rapun uh family that are Punahou alumni, but to take a look at some of these resources and provide programs for the community on a volunteer basis.
[00:48:50] James Scott: I think your your comment is timely because what what I will say to our graduating class next Saturday night is that uh they've been given a wonderful gift of an education and now they have responsibility to give that uh back to the community for the kinds of lives that they they leave and the kind of people that they are. I will also tell them that the same thing applies to their school, that Punahou in order for it to be truly excellent needs to serve a greater public purpose. And to the extent that we can involve our kids outside of the lava rock walls of our 76 acres, it's I think it's excellent. And and to the extent that we can also serve the community better, [unintelligible — audio glitch] think your your point's a good a a good one. I I also liked your comment about lifelong education.
[00:49:35] James Scott: I think uh, and one of the one of the things we try to do in schools is try to do it all before they're 18.
[00:49:40] Caller: Right.
[00:49:41] James Scott: And one of the things I also say to to seniors next Saturday is that we always hope that their education is um always unfinished. And I think we need to take that uh for for ourselves as well. For forever more and and contribute back.
[00:49:55] Caller: Uh and and I think also the enrichment of the adult student so much more ready to learn like a sponge and perhaps being a mentor to children that have not had opportunities. Thank you.
[00:50:08] Randall Roth: Thank you, Ann. We really appreciate your call. Uh we've got a couple more people on the line, but we have uh 15 minutes and some open lines. So, if you would like to call and ask a question or make a comment, our number is 955-8821. We're talking about education in Hawaii. We have Dr. James Scott, who's the president of Punahou School here as our guest and um we would really enjoy hearing from you. If you tuned in late and would like to hear the show in its entirety, tonight at 8 o'clock, you can hear it on KIFO 1380 AM. We go to Barbara in Saint Louis Heights. Good morning, Barbara.
[00:50:43] Caller: Barbara, are you there? Yes, I am.
[00:50:45] Randall Roth: Oh, we finally found you. Go ahead.
[00:50:47] Caller: Hi. Um Dr. Scott, I wanted to ask you about what you think about year round education.
[00:50:54] Randall Roth: Good question. I've been wondering myself. Go ahead, Jim.
[00:50:58] James Scott: I think I come at it uh from a slightly different uh point point of view, and that I don't see it as an economic issue as much as an educational one. And so [unintelligible — audio glitch] look at the discussion in terms of uh Hawaii and and then some of the states that I lived in and the mainland, it was always looked at um only when people were talking about over overcrowding or the need to build a uh a a second school, etc. Um Punahou has more kids in its summer school than than the regular year.
[00:51:27] Randall Roth: Is that right?
[00:51:28] James Scott: And so when I when I when I'm on campus all of the year, I I feel that we are as close to year-round education um as uh we might get.
[00:51:39] Randall Roth: Are these mostly Punahou students who are going to summer school?
[00:51:42] James Scott: It's half and half. So it's really an opportunity uh for for other other kids to be visiting the campus. But I I think that there there are some some um some people on the campus who have an interest in in looking at how curriculum uh and learning have a connection in in time on task. So that's one benefit. [unintelligible — audio glitch] think of of year-round education. The second one is uh trying to get our our kids um in experiential education and travel opportunities and trying to squeeze it into eight or nine months during the regular year is hard. Using the summers as a way [unintelligible — audio glitch] bridging some of those opportunities and making them more available, I I think is one one way we're going.
[00:52:23] James Scott: So, I I approach it from a from a private uh point of point of view as as it applies to Punahou, but I think in terms of the public policy issue of year-round education, I think to the extent that it can be looked at in terms of learning uh for uh students, I I think that you're better off.
[00:52:41] Randall Roth: Barbara, thank you for your call. We have Larry on Kauai. Good morning, Larry.
[00:52:46] Caller: Uh, good morning. I had a question for Dr. Scott. Uh, has anyone done any tracking of of kids that are going off to the mainland to these wonderful universities, uh, the percentage of them coming back to actually work and contribute in this community, and and also if if he sees a a trend towards kids or people being able to work from home, not actually having to go to an office as we have that kind of a holdover from the industrial age. The tools are in the factory and the and the uh typewriters and computers are in the office. Being able to work from home and how that would affect uh how we teach uh in our schools.
[00:53:24] Randall Roth: Couple of real good questions, Jim.
[00:53:27] James Scott: The first question having to do with the kids that go to the mainland and to what ex to what extent they come back, we are able to track them informally by zip codes. Private schools do a good job of of staying in touch with their graduates because uh we depend on their resources to keep the to keep the school going. Um, but it's in that follow-through that that we're realizing that that about half of the Punahou graduates live on the mainland. So if if, you know, [unintelligible — audio glitch] generalize from that, but that's a, you know, I I will say the next year's next week's graduating class that half of you likely will return.
[00:54:01] James Scott: Um, I'd like to increase the percentage that's actually coming coming back. Second point about um uh sort of [unintelligible — audio glitch] electronic village and and uh learning from home. That is an interesting question that we are pursuing. I think we've had to first get our um our campus um hooked up and and networked and we're doing that quite aggressively. Um, but I I think that we we are finding some possibilities and some um opportunities in having uh to give an example, kids um writing writing papers from from home and down and downloading them to their to their classmates and their and their teachers [unintelligible — audio glitch] comments. I don't think it's a it's going to be a um a future where we are having kids staying at home and learning because I think they all depend [unintelligible — audio glitch] yearn for the social opportunities.
[00:54:51] James Scott: But I think there are some ways in which education can be improved and we're interested in other schools that are doing it as well.
[00:54:58] Randall Roth: Okay. Larry, thank you for your call. Okay. Uh You you've got something else to say real quickly?
[00:55:03] Caller: No, actually [unintelligible — audio glitch] question the second part of the question was does he see a trend uh for working from home which might be a way to attract uh kids to come back to Hawaii if if we in the next 10, 20, 30 years conducting business through the internet, creating multimedia web pages and information and package design from home having those at home.
[00:55:28] James Scott: I think I think that's a great a great comment and it looks like that it looks like the future may be heading that that way.
[00:55:34] Randall Roth: Okay. Thank you, Larry.
[00:55:35] James Scott: Thank you.
[00:55:36] Randall Roth: You know, I just comment I was one of a a small group that were sent um to Princeton a month or so ago. Kamehameha schools uh in large part supported our going out there and meeting with a lot of high school graduates from Hawaii going to school on the East coast, most of them at Ivy League schools, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc. And um there were 100 or so that came for various workshops that we gave on the issues that are hot issues [unintelligible — audio glitch] Hawaii. It was interesting to me that um almost without exception, they want to come back to Hawaii. And to a surprising degree, they're committed to make it happen. I mean, the typical attitude was, if there isn't a job for me there, I'm going to come back and create one. I'm going to make it happen, and if if that desire can translate into their actually making it happen, it was very uh inspiring.
[00:56:20] James Scott: And I think the trend that the last caller was mentioning may may help them to make that a reality.
[00:56:24] Randall Roth: I sure hope so. Um we've got uh eight minutes left and uh our lines aren't completely full but almost. So we're going to move quickly. Try to get to everybody. Let's go to Mary from Makole. Good morning, Mary.
[00:56:35] Caller: Hi, I have a question um, I don't think I don't anticipate sending my child to to private school for all 13 years. Assuming that there is a benefit of going to a private school, do you think it's more important to go in the early years or the later years?
[00:56:50] Randall Roth: Ooh, real good question.
[00:56:52] James Scott: It's a good question, but that's a personal one. That's really, [unintelligible — audio glitch] really hard to predict that. [unintelligible — audio glitch] think that that um what they the trend that the last caller was mentioning maybe may help them to make that a reality.
[00:57:00] Randall Roth: we are seeing and I and I think it's the way [unintelligible — audio glitch] uh Punahou is is set up in terms of size is that we get bigger as as the grades go up. so that uh we so that the the trend that we are seeing and and maybe uh we're imposing as well as some other private private schools is that um um you are more apt to to send your kid to a private school from 7th grade on. So our entry levels are K, 4, 7 and 9, and those and we take um um many more kids at each of those grade levels. So generally the trend, and I don't think it's an advice as much as I I think what we're seeing just demographically is that they're feeling more confident about um having their child in a neighborhood school um at the at the earlier ages, as they get about the seventh grade they're they're making the switch.
[00:57:45] Caller: Okay, I guess the question is, do you think um how much of a difference do you think it makes if you miss whatever benefit the private school has in the early years versus what you get in the early years in the public school? [unintelligible — audio glitch] more crucial to have a early, good, basic foundation?
[00:58:04] Randall Roth: I think to the extent that you can be vigilant as a parent with that basic foundation and working with your with your public school in that, I think that uh you can you can help make that foundation.
[00:58:14] Caller: Yeah. Okay. Thank you.
[00:58:16] Randall Roth: Thank you, Mary. I just comment again, as as a parent, our kids all went to Waldorf for at least a couple years and to um public schools for at least a year or two, and then got into Punahou at fifth or sixth grade. And uh we've just been extremely happy with it. We were happy with the public schools, we're happy with Waldorf and and so it's, for what it's worth, Mary, that was our experience. Let's go to Craig in Saint Louis Heights. Good morning, Craig.
[00:58:38] Caller: Good morning. Um the first thing I wanted to do was a bit of an infomercial about the issue of writers in Hawaii schools. Uh I'd like to uh mention the Poets in the Schools program, which has run for many years, been in virtually every school in the state and features such writers as Kathy Song and Eric Chock. Uh that's the first thing. The second thing is that program has been very badly gutted in the last few years, as has substantial funding for education throughout the state. And I just like to uh hear um Dr. Scott respond to the suggestion that perhaps one of the reasons many public school teachers are sending their children to private schools is because the percentage of students in the state going to private schools seems to match up with the percentage of students in the state going on to university. And that in fact, the funding for our public schools is in part based on the notion that if a child is really going to go on to university, they're going to private school anyway.
[00:59:32] Randall Roth: Let's get a reaction to that. Jim?
[00:59:34] James Scott: I think that's a that's a thoughtful [unintelligible — audio glitch] insightful observation, and I think um well, we'll leave it at that. Uh we'll take that as a comment, Craig. We appreciate that.
[00:59:47] Randall Roth: Let's go to Roberta in Kailua. Roberta?
[00:59:51] Caller: Hi, I'd like to thank Dr. Scott for his very thoughtful article about charter schools. I appreciate what he had to say about the um that it's not a competition between uh private school and public school, that it's just another way that we can improve um public schools. And I'd like to say about Lanikai in particular, our um our um desire to become a charter school grew out of a a sense that we were losing our community at our school and it's been a very long struggle and we are so thrilled that finally we have come this far and we realize we have a lot of work ahead of us, but we really think that the public school needs to serve the community, and if it's lost its community then it really should go through a self-examination and say, what can we do to improve our school?
[01:00:40] Randall Roth: Jim, it sounds like Roberta is one of those people that you were congratulating in your article this morning.
[01:00:44] James Scott: Yeah, [unintelligible — audio glitch] think that if Randy had a chance to do a show later on this year it which uh he would he would have uh a private school person and the uh principal of Lanikai and also a member of the Hawaii State Teachers Association, the union, because the enthusiasm and the support that I felt from them in getting ready for that article was amazing and so I I just uh compliment them [unintelligible — audio glitch] look forward to learning from from them as well as being a good partner.
[01:01:08] Randall Roth: Okay. Well now here's the point in the show where we start racing toward the finish line because we got three people on the line. I'm going to try to get to all of them. Let's try to keep it quick. Gale in Kailua. Good morning, Gale.
[01:01:18] Caller: Yes, good morning. I have a plea and a comment that I work with young people in the secretarial service and there's from private and public schools and their spelling is terrible. And I think it's the school's responsibility to teach the kids how to spell. It's not my job to uh proof their writing.
[01:01:38] Randall Roth: Jim Scott just said, I agree and he said it in a way that made me think he means it. And we're all working at that. So I think you're, I think you're absolutely right. Okay, Gail, I have to move on. Thank you. We go to Ricky in uh Waialua. Good morning, Ricky.
[01:01:52] Caller: Yeah, um you know, and um I hear all these graduation speeches and everything is so idealistic, but I I think that um in the pursuit of knowledge, money has become uh too much of a priority in the list and I think uh it should be one of the lowest priorities, really, in the pursuit of knowledge because look what's going on, you know, let's don't kid ourselves.
[01:02:15] Randall Roth: Okay, Ricky, let me take that as a comment and and we'll go on to to Mack in Manoa so we can get everybody on the air. Thank you, Ricky. I appreciate your call.
[01:02:23] Caller: Uh, Mack in Manoa, good morning. Good morning.
[01:02:25] Randall Roth: You've got 30 seconds.
[01:02:26] Caller: Yeah, thank you. Uh my question is, uh does Punahou teach session the system of economic uh of uh America [unintelligible — audio glitch] meaning a free enterprise or the uh the system is geared out to uh just uh learn how to fill in an application and look for a job?
[01:02:41] Randall Roth: Okay, good question.
[01:02:41] James Scott: We have an economics uh course required for graduation for our uh seniors and I and I think it's based on the free enterprise market model but um also getting kids just to understand the interdependence that economics can teach, both socially and economically and environmentally and everything else.
[01:02:58] Randall Roth: Okay, Mack, thank you for your call. Jim, we're flat out of time. 30 seconds to go. But I really appreciate your coming in. I liked your article a lot. Um, good luck with Punahou. You've been listening to Price of Paradise radio show. Our producer is Susie Roth. The director of operations at Pop Radio and uh Hawaii Public Radio is Jeff Ailardi. Also helping out with the phones this morning was Marine Scott. Uh Jim any any relationship there? Uh, She's my lovely bride. All right. Well, you've been listening to Pop Radio. Aloha.