TV Journalism in Hawaii
Price of Paradise · Hawaii Public Radio · aired 1996-02-11
Guests: Kent Baker (General Manager and News Director, KHON); Wally Zimmermann (News Director, KITV); Gerald Kato (Professor of Journalism, University of Hawaii)
Duration: 1:08:54

[00:00:04] Randall Roth: Good morning, this is Randy Roth, host of the Price of Paradise radio show. We're broadcast live each Sunday morning at 8:00 on KHPR 88.1 FM, and KKUA 90.7 FM. And then rebroadcast each Sunday evening at 8:00 on KIFO 1380 AM. Everyone who works to make this program happen is a volunteer. We do it because we enjoy doing it and because we believe in the importance of lively and informed dialogue. Our sponsor is the Hawaii Community Foundation, an organization that encourages grassroots efforts to improve the quality of life in Hawaii, and that manages charitable funds with efficiency and compassion. Today's topic is TV journalism in Hawaii.
[00:00:51] Randall Roth: It's the first of a two-part series on the media in Hawaii, and with me in the studio are Kent Baker, Wally Zimmerman, and Jerry Kato. I guess in telling our listeners a little bit about each of my guests, I'll start with Wally Zimmerman, who earned his BA degree in history at Ripon, it's Ripon, right?
[00:01:12] Wally Zimmermann: Rippen.
[00:01:13] Randall Roth: Rippen College in Wisconsin in 1966, and then spent several years working for Armed Forces radio and television in places like Fort Riley, Johnston Atoll, Fort Ben Harrison, and Fort Knox. From there he worked as a producer for ABC Radio News in Chicago, was a TV news reporter, producer, and then news director in Green Bay, Wisconsin, spent six years as news director at KHON Channel 2 right here in Hawaii, moved back to the mainland to be a field producer for NBC news and a TV news director in Detroit. Then in 1988, he came back to Hawaii and assumed his current position as news director at KITV Channel 4 here in Honolulu. Good morning, Wally.
[00:02:00] Wally Zimmermann: Good morning.
[00:02:00] Randall Roth: Kent Baker also traces his roots to the Midwest. Uh, studied at Iowa State University, has held a number of positions across the Midwest. Uh, unlike Wally, Kent started out as a newspaper man, holding various editorial positions with the Des Moines Register in Iowa. He came to Hawaii 16 years ago as the news director of KHON Channel 2, and just last month was named general manager of the station. Congratulations and good morning, Kent.
[00:02:31] Kent Baker: Thank you.
[00:02:32] Randall Roth: And then Jerry Kato is an assistant professor of journalism at the University of Hawaii, Manoa. He is a former reporter, both with TV and newspapers. I believe Jerry, you worked for the Advertiser and then channels 4 and 9 here in Hawaii.
[00:02:49] Gerald Kato: Mm-hmm.
[00:02:49] Randall Roth: Uh, Jerry has his degrees from the University of Hawaii and the University of Missouri, School of Journalism, and he is an advisor to the Society of Professional Journalists here in Hawaii. He's going to serve as our people's critic. He's going to hold the uh, the industry voices feet to the fire, did I get a metaphor mixed or what? Good morning, Jerry.
[00:03:09] Gerald Kato: Gladly. Good morning, Randy.
[00:03:11] Randall Roth: Um, each of uh, the three of you has written a piece that appeared in this morning's Advertiser, it's on page B3, the op-ed page in the focus section. And Jerry, I think it's fair to say that your piece was, was mostly critical of TV journalism. Um, was that fair?
[00:03:29] Gerald Kato: Well, it's mostly critical. I, I, I should start off by saying, Randy, that uh as a wise man once said, the you know TV journalism, you know, is it any good? Well, some of it is, and some of it isn't. Um, but I, I, I I think on the whole, the problem here is that uh, we we have here in Hawaii now more TV news in terms of um, morning shows, after, uh afternoon shows, evening shows, more, more news um, available and, and yet I don't get the feeling that we are any better informed than when we, we had less.
[00:04:08] Gerald Kato: And I, I, I think part of the problem may be that uh, um, TV news here just does not really uh, zero in on some of the substantive problems that are facing uh, the community, such as um, sovereignty, problems of welfare, the problems higher education are facing in this community. I I think in part because it seems to TV news that uh, um, that it's, it's, it's pretty boring stuff in some ways for for television. It doesn't create the kind of excitement or get the adrenaline rush that you get from the recent uh, um, hostage standoff in Sand Island.
[00:04:54] Gerald Kato: And I think that television news in some ways did a very good job with Sand Island, the, uh um, they you coverage, the pictures, it's very exciting, it's very dramatic. And and yet I I think in to some degree it was a overkill. One, one of the questions I raised when Randy uh real quickly, one of the questions I raised in in the Sand Island context is um, going live, for example. Going live is one of the things TV does real well, but what would happen going live on an incident like that if the hostage were uh, if the hostage taker decided to pull the trigger?
[00:05:31] Randall Roth: Okay, let me let me stop you there and and I want to come back in in just a little bit. But um, Kent and and Wally, what I'm hearing are are a couple of things. Number one, it sounds to me that that Jerry feels that you're not doing as good a job getting us, the people of Hawaii, informed as what you should be doing. And then number two, sometimes you go for uh the excitement, the entertainment, something that's a real live version of of some sort of TV show as opposed to really sticking with, quote, the news. Uh, did you hear something different, Kent?
[00:06:08] Kent Baker: Uh, no, I think you've summed up what he, what he had to say quite well. It's just that he was, just that he was wrong is the only thing.
[00:06:15] Randall Roth: The gauntlet has been thrown. Uh, what say ye?
[00:06:19] Wally Zimmermann: Well, um, first news is a balance of a lot of different things. Um, news uh is a balance of of of stories about politics and stories about government. It's a, it's a balance of stories about people and stories about the only, the only good definition I've ever seen for news and I I use it all the time is in, is in Webster's uh collegiate which says news is items of interest to people. And I think that pretty broadly says what it is that our responsibility is. I mean we, we're not limited to just one kind of news, one type of news. Do we do our job real well? Well, not all the time.
[00:07:00] Wally Zimmermann: I mean, um, sometimes we do, sometimes we don't. Um, we're um, uh we're we're uh but you know, I think we we try very hard to do it right. I think that you can look at the Sand Island issue, which was a tremendous story, story of tragedy, a story of a lot of what's wrong with perhaps today's society, a warning to people. It was a, it was a story with a lot of different elements. Everybody covered it very well and I mean, and very, and in very heavily including the newspapers, which added extra pages to cover it. Now, the newspapers I don't believe added any extra pages to cover the, the state budget crisis.
[00:07:40] Wally Zimmermann: And yet we've used as many reporters in a single day covering the state budget crisis as we used on the day of the hostage crisis, as every television station in town has. So, I think uh that news is a balance and it contains lots of different things. We try, not always, certainly don't always succeed, but we try to cover the all those various areas.
[00:08:00] Randall Roth: Okay, now you say the, the stations all covered it. Uh, it's my understanding that at least one of the stations covered it live from beginning to end, and and if uh the hostage had had, you know, the the gun go off in the back of his head, that would have been shown. There wouldn't have been any way for them to cut away from that. Other stations, as I understand it, uh avoided the um, the the constant coverage. Um, where was KHON on this and and what are your thoughts on the most, I don't know if the word's responsible, or the best way to deal with something like that?
[00:08:38] Kent Baker: I don't have an answer to what's the best way to deal with something like that. Uh, it was um, I'm I'm going on 17 years in the city and and it was the first time that I'd ever uh dealt with a story that had all [unintelligible — audio glitch] uh tragic elements to it, and that that contained the possibility that somebody could die right on the air. Um, all of us did cover it, we all did go live to it at various times during the day. Um, I'm not really going to make a judgment on what was right or wrong there.
[00:09:11] Kent Baker: I I felt myself particularly um, from the fact that our television station was going into a period of its day when it serves kids and we have lots of children watching our cartoons, that um, that that we did not want to be uh covering it, um, we didn't want to uh do sustained coverage of it. Uh, we did coverage and we did it rather often [unintelligible — audio glitch] so forth. So, all of us had the the possibility [unintelligible — audio glitch] tragic situation could have blown up on our air. We all had that possibility. Uh, we decided to try to limit the possibility.
[00:09:49] Randall Roth: Channel 2 did.
[00:09:50] Kent Baker: Yes, Channel 2 did, but, but I'm certain I'm not really going to try to judge it because it's just too complex an issue. People that think that that's a simple issue are just just dead wrong.
[00:09:59] Randall Roth: Wally Zimmerman, uh, what are you thinking about as you listen to Jerry say more or less critical things about TV journalism in Hawaii, and uh, Kent's comments about those?
[00:10:12] Wally Zimmermann: Well, I I I think the, the the one thing that we we fail to realize about television news, as opposed to some of the other ways that we um receive news in uh, in America, is that by and large, television news is the youngest and the fastest changing, and sort of the most immature medium that we have. Newspapers have pretty well settled down to what they are. And radio has settled down to what it is. But television is not. In fact, television is now part of what is even going to be a broader, more convoluted kind of information dispensing system.
[00:11:03] Wally Zimmermann: I mean the combination of cable, broadcast television news, computers, the internet, all that is converging together. And frankly, you know, you can, if you don't like the way television news is now, I mean just wait a while, in about a year it's going to be different again, and then a year later that will be different again. I mean, that's the way television news is. It's a very evolving medium and I don't think that, um, you know, I I think we do a lot better than we did five years ago, and I think we did five years ago, better than we did five years before that.
[00:11:42] Randall Roth: But you're telling me you're you're kind of playing it by ear?
[00:11:46] Wally Zimmermann: Oh, absolutely. Oh, absolutely. Um, and it's not really fair to decide, um, because we have more news broadcasts on now than we did six months ago in this town, well, you know, uh, we'll get those right, too. We'll make those programs better than they are today, all of us at each one of the stations. I mean these are evolving programs, they get better and they respond to um their viewers.
[00:12:17] Randall Roth: Jerry, you're a member of a group called the Honolulu Community Media Council, and a little more than three years ago they did a study of of TV news in Hawaii and I read it as being more critical than not. Um, I did an informal survey of those folks recently and and most of them responded, and most who responded thought that uh the TV news programs had not improved since that study came out three years ago. Uh, any thoughts on this?
[00:12:51] Gerald Kato: Well, one correction, Randy, I I'm not a member of the Media Council, although I I I do follow its activities, uh, very closely. Um, I I think in the Media Council uh report on television news if I recall correctly, it it was very critical of of the same thing I'm raising, this this lack of uh, depth, lack of coverage. Uh, some some of that media council's report, I think, uh there there was some criticism leveled by uh Kent Baker as a matter of fact, some some well-taken uh, uh criticism. But I I I think on the whole, their concern tend to be the depth of coverage.
[00:13:31] Gerald Kato: There wasn't not very much depth, uh in terms of local coverage the report felt, and neither was uh there much in in the way of national or international coverage in a way that would give a a viewer some kind of substantive feeling for what's going on.
[00:13:47] Randall Roth: Let let me get a response from Kent and from Wally on that. First, Kent.
[00:13:52] Kent Baker: Well, that study [unintelligible — audio glitch] a really meaningless. It was an embarrassment to the Media Council, I thought, and um, but but beyond that. You know, uh Jerry's wrong about the fact that uh with all this additional news that is on in in in Honolulu, which came out of pure competitive moves by all of the stations. Stations were changing for various reasons and and that that led a number of uh, uh of the stations, we have a new station involved in news in town now, and we have stations that are growing and stations that are looking for additional franchises and so forth.
[00:14:27] Kent Baker: And so, there is more news and you know there is more news time on the air, and you know what? There's also a lot more news on the air. I mean in our late news now, we have more than double the amount of time that we can give to national and international news, and then we're not just repeating those stories. It's getting people new stories and new information. Wally Zimmerman has two and two hours in the morning. There's a lot of different news on that.
[00:14:49] Kent Baker: I mean, people, you you can't even, nobody can even get a handle on how much news is there there is out there right now because there's just more than any of us can watch. But there is a lot of new news being given to the people of Hawaii at this point, because of this expansion of time. Time was always television's biggest limitation. And and and right now, I can't, you know, I mean I think we all think we have quite a bit of time to do our news in now. We're not as pressed as we were.
[00:15:18] Randall Roth: Wally?
[00:15:19] Wally Zimmermann: You know, the other thing is that I, I, I think I'm very, uh, uh I guess I'm, I'm very leery of, of becoming what the media council would like us to become. And because the fact is, if we were to become that, people won't watch us. And, uh the five most least watched programs on ABC in the past 12 months, have been television news specials. Specials produced by the news department of ABC, uh about specific programs like Bosnia. Nobody watched it. It was an hour, they devoted hundreds of thousands of dollars to gather and to put this, um sort of continuing story in context, and nobody watched it.
[00:16:21] Randall Roth: That's the tension, isn't it? If if you give us a lot of this in-depth stuff about the really complex issues that don't have an easy answer, it's hard to get a lot of people to watch it.
[00:16:32] Wally Zimmermann: We are, we are a business. Whether um whether that's the best way to do it or not, is irrelevant. We are a business, and our responsibility is to put on broadcasts that people will watch. Or at the very least, to deal with [unintelligible — audio glitch] public issues in a way that keeps people engaged and interested in in our channel or in our programs. So if you're heavy on local news and light on international news, for example, that's a reflection of what viewers are wanting.
[00:17:09] Randall Roth: Pretty much.
[00:17:10] Gerald Kato: Jerry Kato. Um, Ran Randy, um, uh actually, uh Kent and Wally, Wally raised a number of interesting questions. I did want to return to this one question, however, about the live coverage of the Sand Island incident. And I, I, I wonder in watching that coverage, and I, I know each station did a, a, a something a little different, but I, I wonder how much the stations were, were driven to go live, uh, because their competitors were going live. You know, the, the incident occurred like two or three blocks away from one of the other stations and, uh, they immediately went live.
[00:17:55] Gerald Kato: And I think seeing that if I, you know, I, I, I've been a a assignment editor in this town myself, so seeing that, like your competitive pressure is, well, let's go live, I want to go live.
[00:18:04] Randall Roth: Let's, let's ask two of the guys who made, had to make this decision. Wally Zimmerman, were you influenced by the fact that uh other stations were either already covering it live, or were going to cover it live and this was very close to you, convenient um, what what drove the decision that you made?
[00:18:25] Wally Zimmermann: Absolutely. Of course it was. Of course it was. But, I'm not sure that that was more of an important issue for me than then the other big issue was, I'm not going to be able to cover this story properly unless I get my live equipment down there set up and available to put it on the air. I mean, for us to look back in hindsight at this kind of a at this kind of a story, I can make all kinds of real smart calls now. But at that point, I didn't know it was going to happen.
[00:19:00] Wally Zimmermann: And I don't think anybody else did either. So I sent my live truck down there and I sent as many crews as I could muster or thought was appropriate. And and we sort of played it by ear as the as the story evolves.
[00:19:15] Speaker 2: Um the fastest and best way for me to get information back from Sand Island was with our live truck. And I guess coming back to what you're saying before, you are a business and you have limited resources. You've got to figure out how to use those resources best and that has to be tied into what the viewers want?
[00:19:35] Kent Baker: Yes.
[00:19:36] Wally Zimmermann: Kent Baker.
[00:19:37] Kent Baker: Well, I that's there's no that's right. Ditto.
[00:19:43] Wally Zimmermann: Ditto, okay. Isn't that another radio show? Anyway, I want to remind listeners that this is the Price of Paradise radio show. We call it Pop Radio. The topic today is TV journalism in Hawaii. If you would like to ask a question or make a brief comment, our number is 955-8821. If you're on a neighbor islander, just call 1-800-955-8821.
[00:20:09] Wally Zimmermann: With me in the studio are Wally Zimmerman, the news director at KITV channel 4, Kent Baker, the news director and the brand new general manager at KHON channel 2, and Jerry Kotto, a professor of journalism at the University of Hawaii Manoa. Again, if you'd like to ask a question or make a brief comment, just call us at 955-8821. Uh Philip Hutchinson, our technical director this morning. We've got three clips, some quotes that we took from some interviews that our intern Aliyah Yap uh did with some folks. And in just a little bit, I'd like to run those. Can you get those keyed up ready to go?
[00:20:51] Wally Zimmermann: All right. Do you have uh clip number one? Let's go with it. This is uh representative Suzanne Chun Oakland talking to our intern Aliyah Yap.
[00:21:04] Speaker 4: I wish it was less negative. I mean we have bad things that happen, but there are so many positive things that are happening, um and how we as a legislature or as a government can actually share with the people those more positive things. I still am grappling with. I know when I uh had first ran for office and got in, uh there was an orientation for all the new legislators. And every single department had at least one thing that they were doing that was leading the nation. You know? And I thought, wow, we've never heard this, and as a lay person, I've never heard this. And I wish we could tell that story.
[00:21:49] Wally Zimmermann: Um something that I heard over and over from legislators who responded to my uh unscientific, simple, informal survey that I conducted over the last week or so, was that there's not enough good news. That TV journalism in particular focuses on uh crime and uh tragedy and anything but good uplifting news. Uh Wally Zimmermann, any reaction to that?
[00:22:18] Wally Zimmermann: People remember tragic um emotionally uh charged stories far longer than they than they remember positive stories. That doesn't make and and I suspect, I honestly suspect that if I were to make an analysis of this in our broadcasts or anybody else's in town, um I think we'd come out to be surprisingly balanced, surprisingly balanced. It's just that we don't remember those stories. I notice Kent Baker uh nodding his head. Uh, you agree with what Wally just said?
[00:22:54] Kent Baker: Sure. I mean we um, you know, in every uh uh television newsroom in town as well as in every newspaper newsroom in town, there are people who are assigned to do the stories about interesting people in this state, interesting events. We have people assigned to do stories about the arts. We uh, you know, I think we and and then many of the stories that come out of our state reporters are good stories, stories about things the state is doing, the new programs it's setting up, new ways it's found to deal with tough issues.
[00:23:28] Kent Baker: Um this is not no this is never been a town where uh anybody has really relied on um on a lot of ambulance chasing uh to do. In in fact, nobody in town does that. We cover the big stories, whatever they are.
[00:23:43] Wally Zimmermann: In Jerry Kotto's article this morning, he alluded to the so-called, If it bleeds, it leads syndrome. Do you think that just doesn't apply to your stations?
[00:23:54] Gerald Kato: Oh, you know, I mean, what leads is the best story of the day. If it happens to be a tragedy, that leads. If it isn't, I mean there's lots of lots of murders in the third and fourth segments of the newscast, you know.
[00:24:07] Wally Zimmermann: Okay. Well, we've got some callers on the line. Let's take uh a few calls and then we'll come back to hear some more directly Oh, let's first go to uh Elisa Yadao, who is the head of communications at the Bishop Estate. Elisa, are you there?
[00:24:23] Speaker 6: I can't hear you.
[00:24:27] Wally Zimmermann: Do we have Elisa on the line? Well, I think we've got a little glitch. We'll we'll come back to Elisa in just a bit. Let's go to uh Dick Miller, who is the current chair of the Honolulu Community Media Council that was mentioned earlier. Dick Miller, good morning.
[00:24:47] Wally Zimmermann: Well, we've got uh we got a technical problem. We're going to try to get that worked out. While um, while they're working on that, Jerry Kotto, what do you think of what Wally and Kent were saying about how they have plenty of good news. It's just that people don't remember the good news, they remember the bad news and uh they don't put it on uh first or emphasize it more just because there's uh, you know, blood or whatever. Does that ring true to you?
[00:25:16] Gerald Kato: You know, something that I agree with them on. I think there is a lot of good news on on television. People tend not to remember it. Legislators especially tend not to remember that. They they tend to focus on all what they perceive to be uh bad news and and sometimes what they perceive to be bad news and I've been a legislative reporter myself, so I know one what they perceive to be bad news, uh, may not necessarily be bad news.
[00:25:46] Wally Zimmermann: It might be what some people would call hard hitting news or investigative reporting.
[00:25:49] Gerald Kato: Might be hard hitting, or investigative reporting, and I think, I I think there is a lot of good news. I think what we do need is more hard hitting investigative news to to really talk about holding the television news feed to the fire. We need to hold legislators feet to the fire and and zero in on these important issues in the state.
[00:26:09] Wally Zimmermann: And in fact, wasn't that one of the recommendations of the Media Council report?
[00:26:14] Gerald Kato: Certainly, that's one of the recommendations that that be uh tougher stories.
[00:26:19] Wally Zimmermann: Kent Baker, why don't we have tougher stories or more of them, or reporters that are given the time to really go into something uh investigate it and report it in depth?
[00:26:32] Kent Baker: Well, I think I think we do. I think uh again, there are good reporters in every newsroom in the in the state, and um and and those reporters are working hard on uncovering stories and uh investigating stories. Um, it's um, you know, I I don't know that I don't know that it's I mean we have a we have a lot of different responsibilities as journalists. One of the key responsibilities is simply to pass along information, the information we that we that we get from um the meetings we attend and the groups that we cover, be the whether it be the legislature or or or whatever. And uh and then the people have to decide, you know, I mean it's some it's not our job to decide. Uh we're it the people have to be the ones to decide whether this is some issue that excites them enough to take some action on. I don't see that as our responsibility. That's that's the people's responsibility.
[00:27:31] Wally Zimmermann: Um uh uh, but I I I think I probably agree with Jerry, you know, and I think all everybody who's in the news business wants to be um to do better job of doing investigative news stories, because in essence, that's what, you know, that's the whole point um is to be able to say to your viewers, or listeners, or readers to say, here's something new, and here's something that you that I bet you're glad you know about. Hm. You know? That's that's kind of, they'll come back for more if we give them more of that.
[00:28:08] Wally Zimmermann: Now [unintelligible — audio glitch] huge limiting factor in this, and it's not an excuse, it is, but it is true, is that investigative reporting is very inefficient. And that by that, I mean you can you can dig for weeks and come up dry, and if you do, you still must pay the bills. And so that's sort of the limiting factor for television news, I think. I mean, we're not in exactly an enormously growing market here. Um and so um you balance off your responsibilities to manage your your money and your resources with you your genuine interest in sending your reporters out to come back and say, bring me something new.
[00:28:58] Wally Zimmermann: Okay. Well, we've got a number of people on the line and we're going to try again to see if we can uh find one or two of them out there in cyberspace. Let's try uh Elisa Yadao, are you there on line 5?
[00:29:11] Speaker 6: I'm here, Randy. Good morning.
[00:29:12] Wally Zimmermann: Oh, good morning. And what's your title at uh Bishop Estate?
[00:29:16] Speaker 6: I'm the Communications Director for Kamehameha Schools Bishop Estate.
[00:29:20] Wally Zimmermann: And if I recall correctly, weren't you at one time uh a person in the TV journalism field?
[00:29:27] Speaker 6: 10 years at KGMB and a year as an intern at KITV.
[00:29:32] Wally Zimmermann: Okay. Uh when I talked to you the other day and I told you we were going to have this program, you said that there was something that they were doing or not doing in Hawaii that really ticked you off.
[00:29:43] Speaker 6: You know, I Well, that's not mince words here. But it it's sort of analogous to eating, you know, which I I have a great affection for food. And it's like sitting down to a meal right now and only eating dessert. I mean, you just, you never really get full. Um I certainly I can understand all of the things that Kent and Wally have been talking about, but uh I just believe that there are huge gaps in the way this community is being served by its television uh news shows.
[00:30:21] Wally Zimmermann: So in other words, uh news TV stations in other areas are doing it better than what we're seeing here in Hawaii?
[00:30:30] Speaker 6: I don't think I'd go as far as to say that. I mean, I think it it it it's a it's a sign of the times and it's it's the nature of the industry. Uh I think you see it even in the national news, you know, that it's just it's changing. Um and I don't I simply don't agree that the change is for the better.
[00:31:02] Speaker 6: Uh you know, would I've I've heard talk this morning about how there's so much more time for news on the air, which I agree with, but I haven't detected any any huge amount of increase in the resources devoted to fashioning the news. So while we have all these more hours of news on the air, uh do we have more people gathering the news and producing the news?
[00:31:16] Wally Zimmermann: Let me get a reaction to that from uh Wally Zimmerman. Elisa, stay on the line. Wally, what do you think of what you're hearing from Elisa?
[00:31:24] Wally Zimmermann: Well, we um we put more newscasts on the air at our station in the morning and added um six people to the staff in the news department and it allowed us to bring a couple of reporters in who had not been there before. I mean, we have more, we may not have as many as Elisa would want, but we have more than we had before. And I suspect at this at for all the time that I've been at at Channel 4, we have more reporters um and more cameras and more airtime than we ever have had. Ditto.
[00:34:32] Wally Zimmermann: No, I mean that's really true. I mean, in fact, I mean it this has been a wonderful time for uh for aspiring television television journalists in this town because there's been there's been a number of um of new positions created. We've hired reporters, we've hired producers, we hired photographers and we hired editors. Wally Zimmermann.
[00:34:50] Wally Zimmermann: You know, Elisa, the other thing is that that um I I I just I I just have a feeling that that um people are we're defining this idea of what television news is supposed to be a little bit too broadly broadly, excuse me. We're not we're not going to be the sole source of news for the people in our community. We cannot be that. We never have pretended to be that and we cannot be that. If people do not watch television, read magazines, newspapers, listen to broadcasts, have discussions, go to groups, they are not going to be well informed citizens. We are not the response That's not our responsibility alone.
[00:35:35] Speaker 6: Which, you know, I have absolutely no argument with that, Wally. You're absolutely right. But there also needs to be an acknowledgment that when television people talk about how we're not going to put on stuff that people don't want to watch and we're actually serving uh we're serving the interests of the public because this is an appetite that they have for these types of stories, you also have to admit that you condition people to expect things.
[00:36:03] Speaker 6: When you fashion an agenda, when you do your lineup for the news, you are having an influence. So a certain, to a certain degree um the television stations play a role in what people are conditioned to expect to see on the news and uh and that there has to be some kind of a balance there. I'm and I'm not saying that that there isn't a balance. I think uh I I'd agree, too, with the statements that have been made that to a newsroom there are fine reporters in each one and people do a good job, but I think if we were to make a judgment, do you err on the side of sensibility or sensation, I wouldn't put you in the area of thoughtfulness.
[00:36:51] Wally Zimmermann: Okay. Kent Baker.
[00:36:52] Kent Baker: Elisa does represent uh one of the most um uh one of the groups in this city that I think anybody in this town, any editor or news director would assign a reporter to the Bishop Estate full time giving them every single working hour if the Bishop Estate would respond and open its records and open its some Although, Elisa does a wonderful job of of of representing the estate, it is certainly one of the most powerful and influential institutions in the state that we'd all love to cover more.
[00:37:23] Speaker 6: And you know, [unintelligible — audio glitch] I'll tell you, it's it's interesting that even for us, even for Kamehameha Schools Bishop Estate, I have felt many times frustrated because reporters, particularly TV reporters, don't have the time or the energy or the institutional memory or the wherewithal to really um do stories uh as in-depth as as I think they should be. Now, I'm not going to I'm not going to uh try to pretend that we're always we're always.
[00:38:00] Speaker 1: You're welcoming reporters with open arms and you know, sort of very talkative.
[00:38:05] Randall Roth: Elisa, I I I think that that Kent just illustrated that the best defense is a great offense. Notice how skillfully he turned that around. I want to get a comment from Jerry Cato and then we we have to move on, but at least I really appreciate you letting us call you this morning.
[00:38:22] Speaker 1: Thank you to all of you and, as always, the show's been interesting.
[00:38:26] Randall Roth: Thanks, Elisa. Jerry Cato.
[00:38:27] Gerald Kato: Yeah, I you know, I I I think Ken's right that the uh what television news probably has to do, or should do, is assign somebody full-time to the Bishop Estate. They they are a government onto itself, and if they want to, if the estate does not want to talk, well, you know, there are other ways of getting information. I think part of the problem is that we we we the stories we see about the Bishop Estate tend to be stories of the variety where people are complaining about the estate or something like that, a a a down-and-dirty story about the leasehold.
[00:39:02] Gerald Kato: Uh, what we need is greater depth and some, uh, some time spent on looking into the affairs of the estate. Okay.
[00:39:13] Randall Roth: Well, let's go to Dick Miller, who is the chair of the Honolulu Media Communications Community Media Council. Good morning, Dick.
[00:39:21] Speaker 4: Good morning, Randy. Good morning, all. I I was I'm enjoying the show. Good. Uh, just want to correct one thing. I think either I think maybe it was Kent said that the Media Council's evaluation of TV was an embarrassment to the Media Council. I think he had it wrong. It was an embarrassment to the media. And, uh, it raised a number of the issues that have been discussed already today. Uh, I think that we all probably want the same thing and we understand the restraints that are imposed on TV news, uh, that it is a business.
[00:40:02] Speaker 4: But the fact is that an awful lot of people out there only watch the TV news and don't watch anything else. I think maybe young people, by and large, have are not reading newspapers the way maybe we did when we were kids or looking at other media.
[00:40:22] Randall Roth: Dick, let me get Wally Zimmerman's reaction to that, because he's the one who commented a little bit ago that that we as citizens need to be getting news from a lot of sources. What about the reality of what Dick Miller is saying that an awful lot of people just get it from the TV? Does that give you a special responsibility that the other, uh, members of the media don't have?
[00:40:42] Wally Zimmermann: Oh, sure it does. Uh, sure it does. And and it it's um um, and one of the things that that's all that's kind of frustrated me, um, is that we also, um, because people watch television so much, the nature of television is different from reading, um, either magazines or newspapers. It there's nothing there, you know, I mean it just kind of goes away off into space. There's nothing you can hold onto, you can't go back and get it again.
[00:41:16] Wally Zimmermann: You can't look over the parts [unintelligible — audio glitch] didn't weren't clear to you the first time. And so, um, what happens to us is that much of what we report goes away and people don't remember that we reported it. And don't use it then for their own purposes to make decisions as citizens. I I was I was uh Professor Mill, I was I was thinking about that when Elisa was calling because do you know how much we have reported as a group, the television news, has reported about Bishop Estate since I've been in town. That's the only last like 15 years.
[00:41:59] Wally Zimmermann: But you know what? I can't remember all of it. I don't remember all the facts that we've put out there as reporters in television about Kamehameha Schools, Bishop Estate, but I can't remember them, and I can't go anywhere to get them back. We've reported them, people listen to them and then they go away. Because I because that's just sort of the nature of television.
[00:42:22] Randall Roth: Dick, uh, another comment, and we need to move on.
[00:42:25] Speaker 4: Yes, uh, I I think that what we've got to do somehow, for example, there are maybe uh at least three major issues around sovereignty, uh, the uh the problems and possibly the destruction of a great university, uh, the what's happening to the middle class in Hawaii, who can't afford to stay here. Uh, and I'm wondering whether that extra time that the TV news is now devoting, that extra half hour, it it seems to be to be repetitive of the first half hour and whether some of that time couldn't be given over to some of these really major issues.
[00:43:03] Speaker 4: And, uh, if sometimes you can get lively people who can talk about those things in a way that will not turn off [unintelligible — audio glitch] viewers and that would be an enormous help, I think, if we really spent a lot of time on these major issues.
[00:43:18] Randall Roth: Let's get a reaction from Kent Baker.
[00:43:20] Kent Baker: That's absolutely right, and I think all of us, uh, certainly want to be able to establish that. We want to use that time as, uh, as productively as we can. Um, [unintelligible — audio glitch] one of the thing I just wanted to address is that you know, finding and uh, finding uh getting young people interested in news is a challenge for television the same as it is for newspapers. Our audience bait, our audience is basically skew, uh, to a somewhat older level, [unintelligible — audio glitch] getting, getting, um, kids and young people involved in watching television news is a is is a tough, um, is a tough thing for us.
[00:44:01] Kent Baker: We we we may, uh, you know, we're we're we try lots of different things but I mean we're really concerned about that issue as well.
[00:44:09] Randall Roth: Dick, I appreciate your call. We've got all six lines filled and so I'm going to have to uh start moving a little bit more quickly, but we appreciate your call. Thanks, Randy. We'll go to David in Kahuku. Good morning, David.
[00:44:21] Speaker 7: David, are you there? Yes, I am. Good morning. Good morning. My question is a technical one. Could live television be put on a few second delay the same way live radio is to edit out obscenities? That way if Miranda had pulled the trigger on a shotgun uh when it was taped to McNeal's head, at least it would have been able to be edited out during children's cartoon hours.
[00:44:45] Wally Zimmermann: Um, we do not have that capability right now, or I would have used it. Um, we are talking about it now, and I would like to have that that capacity because I think that's that's uh that's a real good idea.
[00:45:00] Kent Baker: Yeah, exactly. I mean, it is a good idea. It's now possible um with the new uh digital equipment that is beginning to be introduced into television and so may be a possibility. It's been a real tough thing to accomplish before. It's only been accomplished here uh by one station to add more commercials to its football games and and it's just something that we don't have.
[00:45:26] Randall Roth: David, thank you for your call. Thank you. Let's move on to Desmond from Kaimuki, and I assume that's Desmond Burn of Common Cause. Desmond, are you there? Desmond from Kaimuki. We've lost Desmond. Let's go to Erica, it says Erica Ingle. That's a familiar name from Kailua. Good morning, Erica.
[00:45:44] Speaker 8: Good morning, Randy, and uh, good morning Kent and Wally and Jerry. Um, what a distinguished panel you have this morning.
[00:45:51] Randall Roth: Boy, I wish I had a voice like yours, Erica. I wouldn't have to work this hard. Be careful, she's setting you up, Wally.
[00:46:00] Speaker 8: It's they may be tough questions but maybe not so hard after the fact. They're kind of what if armchair quarterback, you know, 2020 hindsight questions. Two of them. If um, if one of you had gotten a call from John Miranda on the phone wanting to go live on the air, which, as you may recall, he realized he wasn't live with Perry and Price, which is why he dumped out of that phone conversation. Uh, if one of you had gotten John Miranda on the phone, he wanted to go live on TV, would you have had one of your anchors interview him and if so for how long?
[00:46:39] Speaker 8: Uh, you know, knowing that knowing that police at the scene had to get through to him to negotiate. You know what I mean?
[00:46:45] Randall Roth: Let's get a response to that and then we'll come back to you, Erica.
[00:46:49] Wally Zimmermann: Um, very quickly, I would say yes, put him on the air because I think it prolongs what it it it prevents something worse from happening. I mean, convers no matter what he says, it's not as bad as other things that could possibly happen. And at the same time, I would call the police and say, what do you want us to do about this to help.
[00:47:09] Kent Baker: You know, I I don't agree. I don't I wouldn't put him on the air. I I think if he was threatening, I'm going to shoot this guy unless you put me on the air, you'd try to figure out some way to fake him out so that he thought he was on the air.
[00:47:28] Speaker 8: Thank you, um. Yeah, we were we were quite concerned that morning, um, on our station that uh he was being interviewed too long and police couldn't get through and 911 operators cannot break into that line. So, anyway, Is that right? Yeah, that's I was told I mean legally or they don't have the capability? They they do not have the technological capability to break through a phone line like that. They need GTE Hawaiian tell to do that. Um, so second question, thank you is, uh what if the hostage standoff had ended in full view of the majority of TV cameras without the delay that uh you said that you would like but don't have.
[00:48:13] Speaker 8: Um, you know, those things happen so quickly. I know that a couple of you have said you would have switched to an alternate image, but how quickly would you have been able to do that? And after the dust had settled, so to speak, would you have used the ultimate resolution of the hostage standoff during your subsequent broadcast?
[00:48:36] Randall Roth: With someone sitting there with a finger on a button, Wally and Kent, I mean, was it really realistic that you could have cut away if if it had gone
[00:48:44] Wally Zimmermann: Well, the answer is, um, if if the worst of if the worst thing would have happened when our picture was live on the air, um, there was nothing we could have done about it. Right. Um, and it would have it would have appeared on the air. We would have gone away as soon as we could humanly react and um as to what pictures we would put on later, I think Erica, it would just depend on the pictures.
[00:49:09] Wally Zimmermann: I mean, we would just simply take them into the edit room and look at them and try and make some judgments about what they about what parts of the pictures we needed to to put on the air to tell the story later. Um, frankly, um, we had some some quite graphic pictures, uh the of the way it did end that we put on the air the first night, and then made a decision after that that on subsequent nights, during the week, when we were talking about the story, we edited those pictures out.
[00:49:41] Kent Baker: Pictures can be so terrible and so sensational and compelling too though. And and compelling, yes, but on the other hand, I I I we make these decisions about how to edit pictures every day, as as as you know. And um uh and I think we would use the same sorts of standards. When, but you know, that's the luxury, is to have the time to think about this and to and to do it. I mean, we use the pictures of the elephant killing uh a person uh one night and we never used them again and we also refused to sell them to people that wanted to buy them.
[00:50:18] Kent Baker: Um, you know, I mean and I'm not even sure we should have done it the first night, frankly.
[00:50:25] Randall Roth: Erica, thank you for your call. Thank you very much. It's a fascinating program. Great. We want to remind listeners that this is the Price of Paradise radio show. We call it Pop Radio. With me in the studio are Wally Zimmerman, the news director at KITV Channel 4, Kent Baker, news director and general manager at KHON Channel 2, and Jerry Cato, professor of journalism at the University of Hawaii Manoa.
[00:50:49] Randall Roth: Our lines have been filled the entire hour and we've not been moving through them as quickly as uh we sometimes do. And so, uh, if you haven't called in yet, if you're not on the list, uh, you might as well wait until next week because you're not going to get through. But uh, we do appreciate everybody at least trying to to get through to ask a question or or to make a brief comment.
[00:51:10] Randall Roth: Uh, I'm going to get to the people who've been patiently waiting on the line, but first we've got a um, uh, portion of our interview between uh our intern Alia Yap and Annel Amaral from the legislature. Uh, Philip, do you have that queued up ready to go? Okay, let's go ahead and run that and we'll get a reaction from our uh industry folks here.
[00:51:34] Speaker 9: The problem I have with the electronic news, um, and this is a broad generalization, is they attempt to be cute. Everybody has to be cute. Um, so, in an attempt to be cute, you lose the serious flavor of the news. I don't think news is supposed to be cute, you know? I think the other thing is in an attempt to meet deadlines, the electronic media is not interested in accurate news. They're just interested in timely news, you know? So there's no time to give them the full story. They don't want to know the full story. In an attempt to be cute, they have reporters that have no time in.
[00:52:20] Randall Roth: Okay, let's uh let's see whether we've got an answer that's not cute. You know, in all seriousness, when I did my uh my informal survey this last week or two, both people from the legislature and from the media council would frequently comment that they didn't like the um they cute was a word used a lot uh the chit-chat uh among those folks who are doing the news. Kent Baker, what do you think?
[00:52:49] Kent Baker: Well, there's all sorts of folks doing the news. I mean, I think that uh from our station, um Jim McCoy and Bill Brennan and Nelson Dyang Chang who cover politics would would well, be quite amazed if they were being described as being cute. When I don't think of those those guys as cute. Yeah, exactly. I mean they might like it, but um I think they'd be surprised. Um and you know, there's such a tiny, I mean I there's such a tiny little bit of of of by play between anchors [unintelligible — audio glitch] reporters.
[00:53:23] Kent Baker: When an anchor is talking to to one of the field reporters, uh, I mean, the time is limited and they and they spend uh very little time in in in chit-chat. They relate some information uh about the story [unintelligible — audio glitch] go on from there. I mean, I think the argument is is a good one and I'm not I'm not um making uh light of it. Uh, we want to use, but you know, I mean a television newscast is a balance of a lot of different things.
[00:53:51] Kent Baker: I mean, the horoscope and the comics come out of the news product of the newspapers. Now, why do they devote, when they're so limited on space, why do they devote news product to comics, to horoscopes, to lots of stories about rap music? Because they're items of interest to people and they're part of the balance the newspaper provides.
[00:54:14] Randall Roth: Well, and to be honest, we've been engaging in a little bit of chit-chat here this morning, but uh Wally Zimmerman, do you have uh anything else to say on that one?
[00:54:22] Wally Zimmermann: Uh, just this, that that a television news broadcast is different from the other forms of um, of news. Because it's it's almost like a living program. It's a very human connection between people in their living rooms and other people across this screen. And it's a very powerful connection and relationship. And if that connection and relationship works, people come back and watch more news and trust the people that they're that they're listening to.
[00:55:00] Randall Roth: Okay. Well, we've got some folks who've been waiting very patiently on the line and and we're going to try to get to all of them in just the next few minutes. And and Jerry, I'm going to give you a uh time to kind of sum up your thoughts here in a couple minutes. But let's very quickly go to David on Maui. Good morning, David.
[00:55:15] Speaker 7: Good morning. Good morning. Here we are again. Um, I just want to make a a a comment that may sound a bit critical but really isn't meant that way. Watch and really isn't meant to suggest to the news directors that they taking taking themselves a little bit less seriously. Like they should be more cute? My thing is, I've I've been in my life, I spent 15 years in print journalism. When I walked away from that, I realized that basically, what had been going on was pretty simple. Basically what editorial material was anything that filled the space between the ads.
[00:55:56] Speaker 7: And it needed to be titillating to hold the attention of the readers, and in the case of television, viewers. So, if that's really the bottom line, you know, there's really no call to take ourselves too seriously.
[00:56:08] Randall Roth: Okay. David, I appreciate your comment and thank you for waiting so patiently. Let's go to Bill in Pulolo. Good morning, Bill.
[00:56:15] Speaker 10: Hey, good morning. Hello?
[00:56:17] Randall Roth: Yes, good morning. You're you're on the air.
[00:56:19] Speaker 10: Yeah, Kent, I wanted to say I was down there for nine years at Channel 2 and you better watch it when they kick you upstairs. And to Wally, I really appreciate uh Gary and Pam and their coverage of uh water. I wanted to point out on the 20th the board of Water Supply and Department of Health showed up at Jim shown's uh Saturday committee uh hearing of a house bill 1247 to argue against this truth in drinking water bill and suggest there may be a story there for you. Got a brand new lab that they build up on a hill, they won't do good test.
[00:56:56] Randall Roth: Okay. Well, they're taking notes. Thank you, Bill.
[00:57:00] Speaker 1: Go to Steve in Waikiki. Good morning, Steve.
[00:57:02] Speaker 1: Good morning. I'd like to uh thank you for the show and make a a brief sort of observation and get their comments afterwards. I'll hang up. Um, I to me, having uh being somewhat of an addict to public radio and public television and having lived a long time and written and having listened to the news a lot on the BBC, the the um the aspect of local news where where I think it comes short in quality when compared to the really top operations may be explainable because of the great pressure on news departments to produce ratings and to produce uh a marketable product. Um the the uh kind of dispatched and high quality operation that we get on things like Mc Neil, Lear and public television, I think, are due to the fact of the non-pressure of the marketplace and the fact that professionals are able to do their job with professionals uh applying their professional skills, uh evenly and they don't have to look over their shoulders quite so much at uh the news director who has to look over his shoulder at the uh whether money is being made or not. And I think that capitalism is the enemy of good news.
[00:58:16] Speaker 1: Let's get a reaction.
[00:58:21] Wally Zimmermann: Well, I I'm not sure it is. I'm not sure capitalism is the enemy. I I I feel, I honestly feel that that I have learned so much from the people who broadcast um ABC News programs from the way Peter Jennings and the way, um the way all of the national newscasts do their jobs. I've learned an enormous amount about about life and about the news and about what's going on in the world, and I'm really glad it's there. And I don't think it's one hoot worse than McNeil Lear, um even though it is a capitalistic enterprise as opposed to McNeil Lear which which isn't.
[00:59:02] Speaker 1: And I guess we're glad we we've got both, but there's a certain uh democracy aspect I guess to um looking to see what is supported by lots of people as opposed to what is decided by a small group to be put on the air. Wally?
[00:59:17] Wally Zimmermann: Yes. Yes. You know, um there's a there's a lot of capitalism that is now in uh in public radio and public television. Unfortunately. Yeah. And it and it's uh um and and it's all disguised, and I think that that's probably a bad thing.
[00:59:31] Speaker 1: So at least on KITV Channel 4 and KHON Channel 2, you know what you've got, huh? Steve, thank you for your call. We're going to go to Sharon in Waikiki, and with that we will have gotten through everyone who've waited so patiently. Sharon, are you still there?
[00:59:47] Speaker 3: Yes, I am.
[00:59:48] Speaker 1: Good morning.
[00:59:49] Speaker 3: I want to make a comment. I am normally a news freak. I do not watch TV news the way other people do. I tape it. I tape Mc Neil Lear. All taped, day one, primetime, 20/20, Brinkley, and 60 minutes, and I'll know, as I'm listening to them, if I'm listening at the same time, what things I really want to see. And I'll note the numbers down, I'll go back and look at certain international scenes, at certain art things.
[01:00:16] Speaker 1: And what have you concluded from uh from doing all of that?
[01:00:20] Speaker 3: I think that I get more in depth with that in McNeil Lear and public radio and CBC radio uh in depth than most people do.
[01:00:33] Speaker 1: Well, you know, you're that that's an atypical watcher.
[01:00:37] Speaker 3: I think you probably are. That's an that's a really efficient way of doing it. I mean, I certainly can't argue with you. Um, but I will also tell you this, that the surveys that I've seen about people who use their VCR machine is that 75% of the things that people tape on their VCR machine, they never watch. So you are, you are a typical. In my case, is about 98%. Right. Sharon, thank you for your call. We've got just five minutes left and Jerry Catto, um I've been going to our industry voices a lot this morning, and I've got a feeling you've got a number of things to say. Take a couple minutes if you need them to um to share any thoughts that need to be added.
[01:01:17] Gerald Kato: Well, I I I always learn new things from uh listening to Kent and Wally, so it's been a very interesting discussion. I I I did want to say that, you know, television um television news is is is a kind of a strange combination of show business and uh news. Probably because the way television evolved, television is a medium that evolved. It's an entertainment medium basically, and the news was sort of uh um attached to it. Uh and I I agree with them that they that there needs to be some kind of cute sometimes but I'm not very big on cute myself, but you know, there there is that element on television news. Uh I I think where the balance is needed is this that you you know, you know, um there there is that entertainment element. Lord knows [unintelligible — audio glitch] invoke somebody like Edward R Murrow who had to do a person-to-person on entertainment show talking to celebrities and all of that. But I think at the same time, also did the things like the harvest of shame and the Army McCarthy hearings that were were uh landmarks in broadcast journalism, and I I I I think uh that balance can be achieved here in Hawaii too by uh uh providing the resources, committing the uh uh talented men and women here to doing that. I I television news tends to be very oriented towards the here and now, and uh we'll go to the next story. There [unintelligible — audio glitch] tends not to be very much consistency to it. One one one last thing, you know, I I I I think on the uh uh good side is that television is evolving. Telecommunications bill that just passed uh suggested we will have all kinds of uh television options in the future. Hopefully that will suggest that news as it evolves, we'll get more into these kinds of depth [unintelligible — audio glitch] quote serious kinds of news uh in this town.
[01:03:29] Speaker 1: Okay. Concluding remarks from Kent Baker.
[01:03:34] Kent Baker: Jerry refers to the thing that is our greatest strength and our greatest and and our greatest weakness. Television news, newspapers news is made up of people. Uh we're we're just all people doing the very best job we can. Most of the people that that we work with were born and reared in Hawaii and are uh parts of this community. And um [unintelligible — audio glitch] they do the very best job they can in and in covering a community they care very deeply about. And that's all we can do.
[01:04:08] Wally Zimmermann: Yeah, I I just I I feel that um that television news will probably get a little bit better in the in the way it's configured right now because we have all the stations in town here have committed more money and resources and people to it, [unintelligible — audio glitch] think for the first time uh the the companies that own these stations have made the news the center of the television stations. Um it's true for KHON, it's true for our station, and I think it's true for for the others too. We are now the center of what we do as television stations. And so, that will force us to get better in all kinds of different sorts of programs. And maybe uh track more resources.
[01:04:54] Speaker 1: I think so. Okay. I want to thank my guests, Wally Zimmerman, the news director at KITV Channel 4, Kent Baker, news director and station manager, general manager at KHON Channel 2, and Jerry Catto, a professor of journalism at the University of Hawaii, Manoa. Our producer is Suzy Roth, our assistant producer this morning was Aliyah Yap. Helping on the phones, Wally Roth, the director of operations at public radio is Jeff Alardy, but doing our technical work this morning, Phillip Hutchinson. Next week, we'll have the second and final installment in this series on the local media. Next week, we'll focus on the press, in particular the Honolulu Advertiser and Star-Bulletin. We'll have the editors from those papers, Jim Gaddy and John Flanigan, as well as our in-house critic, Tom Brislin from the University of Hawaii, Manoa. You've been listening to The Price of Paradise Radio Show. I'm Randy Roth. Aloha.
[01:04:34] Randall Roth: of the television stations.
[01:04:36] Randall Roth: It's true for KHON, it's true for our station, and I think it's true for for the others too.
[01:04:42] Randall Roth: We are now the center of what we do as television stations. And so, that will force us to get better in all kinds of different sorts of programs.
[01:04:52] Randall Roth: And maybe uh track more resources.
[01:04:54] Randall Roth: I think so.
[01:04:55] Randall Roth: Okay. I want to thank my guests, Wally Zimmerman, the news director at KITV Channel 4, Kent Baker, news director and station manager, general manager at K U and channel 2, and Jerry Cotto, a professor of journalism at the University of Hawaii, Manoah.
[01:05:09] Randall Roth: Our producer is Susie Roth, our assistant producer this morning was Aaliyah Yap, helping on the phones, Wally Roth, the director of operations at public radio is Jeff Alardy, but doing our technical work this morning, Philip Hutchinson.
[01:05:23] Randall Roth: Next week we'll have the second and final installment in this series on the local media.
[01:05:29] Randall Roth: Next week we'll focus on the press, in particular, the Honolulu Advertiser and Star Bulletin.
[01:05:34] Randall Roth: We'll have the editors from those papers, Jim Gatti and John Flanagan, as well as our in-house critic, Tom Brislin from the University of Hawaii, Manoah.
[01:05:43] Randall Roth: You've been listening to the Price of Paradise radio show.
[01:05:46] Randall Roth: I'm Randy Roth.
[01:05:47] Randall Roth: Aloha.