Ken Mortimer 1998 Interview
Price of Paradise · Hawaii Public Radio · aired 1998-04-05
Guests: Kenneth P. Mortimer (President, University of Hawaii)
Duration: 01:04:55

[00:00:00] Randall Roth: This is Randy to the Price of Paradise Show, where broadcast live Sunday mornings on KHPR and KKUA and then rebroadcast Sunday evenings beginning at 8:00 on KIFO. Everyone who works to bring this program to you is a volunteer who believes in the importance of lively and informed public dialogue. We believe the brightness of any community's future is directly related to the level of activity in its marketplace of ideas. Our sponsor is the Hawaii Community Foundation, an organization that encourages grassroot efforts to improve the quality of life in Hawaii and that administers charitable funds with efficiency and compassion. Listeners new to Hawaii might not realize that our sponsor, the Hawaii Community Foundation, is one of the oldest and largest such organizations in the country.
[00:00:44] Randall Roth: It's been earning the people of Hawaii's trust for more than 80 years, and in the last 10 years alone has distributed nearly $80 million in support of local charitable causes in areas such as education, health, human services, culture and the arts, and community development. We're proud to say that they've supported our show from the very beginning. Mahalo to the good folks at the Hawaii Community Foundation. Well the University of Hawaii has 10 campuses, almost 4,000 faculty members, another 4,000 non teaching employees, and roughly 50,000 students. Its total expenditures exceed $600 million each year. In short, it's a big operation. My guest today is its president, Kenneth P. Mortimer. Good morning Ken, and welcome to our show.
[00:01:29] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Good morning Randy, it's good to be back on your show.
[00:01:31] Randall Roth: Ken has been here a couple of times in the past and we'll tell you just a little bit about Ken's background and then we'll get right to the meet of our topic today, which is the University of Hawaii and the challenges it faces. Ken is the former president of Western Washington University in Bellingham, Washington. Before that he was vice president and vice provost at Penn State University. His bachelor's degree is in English from the University of Pennsylvania. He has an MBA from the Wharton School of Finance and a PhD in higher education from the University of California at Berkeley. He's a prolific scholar on academic governance and policy development and has received a variety of honors, including the association for the study of higher education's leadership award.
[00:02:12] Randall Roth: Ken and this morning's advertiser, the focus section, right on the front page, great big picture of Bachman Hall, you know, could have been you but they chose the building instead. There's a a nice article written by you and it's comprehensive, you get into a number of areas, but one of the the big elements of that article and something that's been in the news a great deal lately is something called autonomy and some people are referring to it as flexibility. What's that all about?
[00:02:40] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well Randy, it's a very important development in the history of the University of Hawaii. When I got here 5 years ago, I mentioned that I thought the university need to have a fundamentally different relationship with state government than in characterized our first 80 years or so. We're simply essentially trying to get the flexibility from state controls that will allow us to be more entrepreneurial and to make more significant accommodations to the economic development needs of the state.
[00:03:09] Randall Roth: And as I understand it there's a bill in the state legislature that would provide some degree of autonomy. Number one, are you happy with the way the bill looks right now, and number two, what are the chances of it becoming law?
[00:03:22] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well I am happy with the bill, we've been working hard with representative Morihara of House Higher Education and Senator Aki on the senate side to get bills from both houses that we're pretty happy with. So those bills have moved forward very well and and that's one of the major outputs I think that's going to come from the economic revitalization task force.
[00:03:42] Randall Roth: Okay. Also in your article this morning you talk about um tough economic times and the need to make hard choices. Hard choices suggests that um that there'll be some cuts, some things that you wouldn't prefer to cut will will have to be cut. And in fact in the newspapers in the last few weeks there have been stories about several committees out at the university, one made up of researchers, the other made up of of teachers, uh each of them coming up with suggestions as to what perhaps should be cut. Uh various units that have been mentioned have been the Law School, the Medical School, the School of Public Health, uh the whole area of European languages.
[00:04:21] Randall Roth: Um let me start with the general question, uh are we to a point where there have to be so called vertical cuts, that certain units will be eliminated in their entirety?
[00:04:31] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well it's very clear that we can't continue to offer the full range of services to which the public has become accustomed. Uh those uh evolved over a period of time where there was rapid growth in the state economy and there was a whole uh uh era that uh pour more money into the university and the reverse has been the true the last 5 to 7 years. So it's very clear that we're going to have to and have been this past 3 to 5 years looking very carefully at the range of things that we do. But I must hasten to add that uh when the faculty and others debate these things, there's going to lead to a whole series of rumors.
[00:05:08] Kenneth P. Mortimer: We in academia are fond of our ability to debate things. And so it's unfortunate that rumors float that the law school is going to go or something like that. You you and I know that we addressed that issue, I thought quite comprehensively a couple of years ago. So it's on the one side, it's a bit unfortunate that rumors like that get started. On the other side, an academic community will debate the future of its academic units quite vigorously. And that will lead people outside the institution to look at us as though we are engaged in some form of triage.
[00:05:40] Randall Roth: Now, a unit like the the Law School is able to raise tuition to the point that it can become, if not self-sustaining, at least close to self-sustaining. But there are other areas, like for example, European languages, and that's one that for some reason touched a a lot of of nerves. Um what is it with that rumor that European languages is on the way out?
[00:06:01] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, a faculty committee uh looked at a variety of things and just hinted at at uh issues of that sort. I can't imagine a first class university not teaching European languages. And so that's why it's unfortunate that rumors like that get started.
[00:06:13] Randall Roth: Okay. In uh this morning's article, uh you mentioned that you've been on the job for 5 years and um and indicate a willingness to stay at least another 5 years. I guess the implication is that that you're not going to run out on us now that the going has gotten kind of tough. Uh tell us a little bit about you, your vision, where you are in in your tenure here at the University of Hawaii.
[00:06:39] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, a lot of people won't be happy about the decision for me to stay 5 years. Uh we we're mounting a major fundraising campaign uh and that's going to take a sustained effort and it's not one in which you want to change horses in the middle of that stream. And when I uh made the announcement some weeks ago that Senator Inouye and uh Larry Johnson and Walter Dodds had agreed to chair that, I also committed to stay with them through that campaign. And that campaign will probably take us 5 years to get done. So uh it's our commitment to stay and see that through.
[00:07:14] Randall Roth: Okay. Um well, usually we wait a little bit longer before we invite calls, but this morning we're going to try to take as many calls as as we possibly can. And so anyone who has a question they'd like to ask of President Mortimer, or a comment that you'd like to share, if you'd like to engage in a brief conversation with President Mortimer, our number is 955-8821. If you're from a neighbor island, the number is 1-800-955-8821. And now for those of you who are great with numbers, I've got a few more. We're in the middle of the spring fund drive here at Hawaii Public Radio and upstairs in the big room, they're taking calls right now.
[00:07:54] Randall Roth: They have a goal during this hour, during this show, they're hoping to raise $1,500. If you can take out just 30 seconds to call this other number and pledge something and work us toward that $1,500 goal, that would be great. So if you'd like to make a pledge, that number is 944-8800. That's 944-8800. But if you're on a neighbor island, it's 1-888-970-8800. Now, that call is uh going to have to be a collect call. So again, if you're on a Oahu and you want to pledge a little bit of money, 944-8800, if you're on a neighbor island to pledge a little bit of money, call collect at 1-888-970-8800. But to circle back if you want to ask a question or make a comment, we're here with President Kenneth Mortimer of the University of Hawaii.
[00:08:49] Randall Roth: Our number to uh engage in conversation with him is 955-8821. Well, with all of that, let's go to a caller, first we have Lou from Aina Haina, good morning Lou.
[00:09:01] Caller: Hi, my question has to do with the outlook for autonomy for the university, and I'm um my question has to do with the track record of the university in areas where it has attempted to be somewhat entrepreneurial. For example, in the housing area, uh the uh first the attempt to acquire the property at uh Kapiolani Boulevard and and Pensacola, uh which failed, which which I'm happy for. And then when they did finally get housing going in Manoa, it turned out to be a, I think a complete failure, basically economically. And uh then a more recent phenomenon, that is the softball stadium, which turned out to have uh serious deficiencies. In other words, do we, uh what's what's going to happen if we give the university autonomy?
[00:09:47] Caller: Are they going to be a series of mistakes and learning uh steps or or what?
[00:09:51] Randall Roth: Okay. And and let me restate the question just a little bit because I didn't have uh Ken Mortimer's earphones plugged in completely. And so, uh in the middle of your question I got that fixed and so, just real briefly in Ken's piece in this morning's advertiser, he says that the University of Hawaii has to become more focused in his programming, it has to raise more private money, and it has to become more entrepreneurial. And Lou, our caller has just gone through a a number of examples of activities in the past that one might describe as entrepreneurial in nature, uh that haven't worked out real well. And I guess um uh just that's the background Ken, for the the question about our becoming more entrepreneurial.
[00:10:34] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well Lou, I think that's an excellent question and the thing that scares a lot of us, of course, is the increased responsibility and accountability that will come with these attempts to get the university freed up from onerous state controls. None of the projects that you mentioned for example are are probably good examples of the way in which we might be moving ahead and each one of them has a history of its own. What we're talking about Lou, for example is uh being able to process things more quickly, to have a hot button purchasing department such that uh when we have to procure rapidly changing technology, we can do it before that technology is obsolete. Uh some of you may have been reading the recent stuff in the newspapers about we have to go through public hearings in order to change the prices on football tickets.
[00:11:28] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Those kinds of things are not in the public interest in my opinion and they add to the cost of doing business.
[00:11:35] Randall Roth: Uh Lou, back to you.
[00:11:36] Caller: Yeah. Well, um I I can understand the a desire to get out from under a lot of the oppressive kinds of bureaucratic rules implied applied by the state. But uh even within the university alone, we have some procedures which are viewed as oppressive by um the members of the faculty for example. Uh and is there some uh some reason to expect that we have some improvement there also?
[00:12:03] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Absolutely, I think that the biggest challenge that we face is is within the institution. Once we remove the excuses that everything we uh can't do is because somebody outside the institution has a hold on us, then we're going to have to accept the responsibility for changing those things internal to the institution that are in the way. So, I believe you've as I said asked a very excellent question, we're involved in staff meetings now, for example, as to what would we do if we had our own attorneys?
[00:12:33] Randall Roth: Okay. Lou, thanks for your call. We really appreciate it. We go to Francis from Kapolei, good morning Francis.
[00:12:39] Caller: Yes, uh good morning President Mortimer. Uh I was wondering, what can the university do in an educative way to actively promote an uh a two party system in the state?
[00:12:51] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, that's a tricky question uh a few months before an election Francis. The the uh debate that's going on right now in the state is a very is a quite interesting one and the university will only add to that debate about two party systems as far as its political scientists and faculty members get involved in it. We'll have no official position on it.
[00:13:13] Caller: No, I can appreciate that and it can't be something that uh would uh separate the university more so from the state. But since it autonomy is such an important thing and that comes out then in the paper this morning again, uh it seemed to me that in sort of some background music that doesn't attack things directly, but in turn uh some way or other just as the university being another citizen of the state uh or group of citizens that uh to promote the two party system would in turn seems to me give a better relationship between the university and the state.
[00:13:53] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, there's a lot of debate in the state about that. Let me say the autonomy bill has bipartisan support, there really isn't any significant opposition to it.
[00:14:02] Randall Roth: Right. Okay. Francis, thank you for your call.
[00:14:04] Caller: Yeah, you're welcome.
[00:14:05] Randall Roth: Uh we go now to Paul from Mililani. Good morning Paul.
[00:14:07] Caller: Yeah, good morning uh I good morning Dr. Mortimer. I'm I'm a 92 proud 92 graduate of UH in English as well so How you doing?
[00:14:20] Randall Roth: Not many of us left.
[00:14:23] Caller: At the Law School we love the English majors, Paul. Uh I just was wondering about the success rate of uh other universities across the rest of the nation. How how have they been uh um unusually successful after they've achieved autonomy?
[00:14:42] Kenneth P. Mortimer: The argument uh is a is a good one and I can't guarantee success if the bill passes. I can however guarantee that things won't change much unless we make significant change. As a previous caller said, there's a lot of risk involved in this, and uh on the other hand, the state has arrived at a point where it has to move forward in this kind of a direction. And I think most legislators, the governor, the leadership of both houses agree with that. So I think it's time for change and I think this is one of the things that we're suggesting will be a factor in getting the state moving again.
[00:15:20] Randall Roth: Paul, thank you for your call. Ken, you just mentioned risk and it reminded me in this morning's advertiser, the advertiser has an editorial where they see the lawmakers see autonomy as potentially amounting to a lack of accountability. And the editorial says from the legislator's point of view, there is some risk in giving autonomy and and they're a little bit worried that we with autonomy will go into our ivory tower and be less connected with the community, less concerned about its needs. Uh what are your thoughts on that?
[00:15:54] Kenneth P. Mortimer: I think again, one has to look very carefully at what will result after the matter. the matter of taking a few more risks is I think an appropriate question for people to ask. We're not asking to be free from accountability. This bill and its uh and its discussion talks about freeing the university from all these controls about how we achieve certain results. So we've provided 36 benchmarks of educational performance. We think we ought to be held accountable for what we do, not how we do it. And the how question is the one that gets in the way of what all the time.
[00:19:00] Randall Roth: When that place is freed up, it will be one of the major success stories of the 21st century.
[00:19:06] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Okay. And you see its mission as being significantly different from that of a community college uh for example Leeward Community College?
[00:19:12] Randall Roth: Well, of course it offers baccalaureate uh degrees and Leeward Community College offers associate degree. So the connection between the two has to be indeed very close and it is of course they're on the same campus and used the same facilities.
[00:19:25] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Oh, okay. So, Neda, thank you for your call. All our lines are are full and so we're going to do our best to uh to move through the callers uh expediently. Let's go to Mel from Manoa. Good morning, Mel.
[00:19:36] Caller: Uh hello. Uh I have two questions. I'll get to my second one first. Um it seems to me that a major part of the cost of the university is the cost of student time. But also the instructional time that's invested in these students. Couldn't this be cut if the university offered its core curriculum credit by exam?
[00:19:56] Kenneth P. Mortimer: I mean uh it it it's fraud to charge somebody for the repair of a functional automobile. If a student actually is educated, why does he have to sit through a three month course to get a certificate that says he knows material that he knows on day one? So let him test out of it in some way. Right. Uh let's get a response to that one first. Yeah. We do we are developing and do have some credit by examination uh uh uh procedures at the university. So that they're not used very as much as they should be and can be. So that's an excellent suggestion and there are those opportunities.
[00:20:32] Randall Roth: Uh you had another point, Mel?
[00:20:33] Caller: Well, um, autonomy, it seems to me is synonymous with a lack of accountability. I mean, it means we get to spend the money and nobody gets to criticize how. $600 million is an awful big temptation. And, um, I've seen a lot of waste of material at the university.
[00:21:22] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, of course, uh we are not claiming to be free from accountability. We are arguing, and I think the legislature agrees that there's a form of accountability that's better than another form. The form of accountability is the legislative process itself. Our academic curricula, for example, all of our associate degree programs have advisory committees that uh are keyed to the industry for which they're preparing graduates. So we're not arguing that we be free from accountability. We're arguing that that accountability be fixed on the what the University of Hawaii does, not how it goes about it.
[00:21:57] Randall Roth: Kenneth, is it fair to say that maybe if if the university had had more accountability in the past, that maybe in spending its own money, there wouldn't have been the problems with the softball field or there wouldn't be the problems that that Mel is mentioning, for example?
[00:22:12] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, the problems that Mel is mentioning are things that we need to tighten up our internal controls and one cannot argue that uh that that's not an appropriate form. But no, uh uh uh procedures on the part of the state deals with that problem. So I've already uh indicated that one of the biggest problems will be we internally got to look very carefully at how we do things. And the incentives for doing that will be very clear to the university. Where you have this great outside entity on which everybody can blame something, and then it tends to look to uh uh add to a lack of accountability within the institution. So we're hoping that those procedures, when we are responsible clearly for those activities, uh will be firmed up substantially.
[00:22:57] Randall Roth: Wait a minute, you mean we're not going to be able to blame the state when things go wrong?
[00:23:01] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Isn't that frightening? Isn't that frightening?
[00:23:03] Randall Roth: Gee, I didn't think of it that way. Okay, we go to Paul from Honokaa. Good morning, Paul.
[00:23:09] Caller: Good morning, Dr. Mortimer.
[00:23:10] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Good morning, Paul.
[00:23:11] Caller: Uh my question is, uh what is the state's uh commitment to agriculture, and how does the, I mean, the university and how does the university justify maintaining the agriculture school in uh, in an urban setting and not on the big island?
[00:23:31] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, there's a few uh issues that have been historically significant there, Paul, and I might have to ask you to call me at the office when we could answer that in much more detail. The uh university's future in agriculture is much more looking at the development of biotechnology and a variety of issues in that area than in production forms of agriculture. Uh the university has looked carefully over the last uh oh two or three decades, and it comes up every other year, about moving the college tropical agriculture. It's a very expensive operation to move because the facilities exist here, not elsewhere.
[00:24:10] Caller: When you say biotech development, and this is taking precedent over um production, uh is this going to provide the jobs that's needed in the state?
[00:24:21] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, I think the state is in a fundamental redirection of its efforts in agriculture and I don't think we'll ever get back to the dominant crop. And most of the people looked at it have indicated, we're going to be having to look at a smaller niche oriented crop uh crops. You see, what we did in the criticism of our agricultural operation is we refined the way to grow sugar and pineapple very well, then we exported it to other countries and they put us out of the business.
[00:25:05] Caller: That's great. Do you think there's a possibility the university could uh uh mature to the point that they can uh import expertise from the Asian countries, which we are part of the Pacific Rim, yet we haven't uh really uh taken advantage of that, have we?
[00:25:27] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, my article in this morning's paper and some of the other things talked about the growth of intellectual capital and I think that's where we can develop a comparative and competitive advantage and that's why the university is so important.
[00:25:36] Randall Roth: Um, Paul, I appreciate your call. We've got a bunch of people waiting so I'm going to have to move on, but uh the president did invite you to call him at the office. I heard that, so uh give him a call sometime. Thank you, Paul.
[00:25:54] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Thank you.
[00:25:55] Randall Roth: Uh, I just want to mention that in addition to this show this morning, tonight at 6 o'clock, uh, Ken Mortimer is going to be the guest on KHNL uh Channel 8's Newsmakers live series and Ken, uh, I don't envy you this. You're going to be in front of a a panel of questioners including the uh student body president, Mono Kim, uh, KSSK's Larry Price, and an associate professor from Windward Community College, Libby Young. They, together with Dan Cook and Lyle Galdero from Channel 8 are going to be uh holding your feet to the fire. Good luck.
[00:26:22] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, I look forward to that. I know Larry Price is a pussycat of a what and and so, yeah, yeah, all of these people are just going to toss softballs up there and and good luck if uh if that happens. Oh, I also have been given a note from uh Laurie Mortimer saying that I should pitch a little bit, which means uh anybody who'd like to help us make our goal of $1,500 of pledges this hour, please call upstairs. The number is 95, or I'm sorry, 944-8800. Again, 944-8800. Just call them up real quickly and say, I pledge X dollars or Y dollars, whatever it is and uh and then listen to our show some more. If you're on the neighbor Islands, the number is 1-888-970-8800. This is Hawaii Public Radio and we depend almost uh not exclusively but in a very, very major, essential way on private contributions. Well, we're back to our callers and we have Richard from Mononoa. Good morning, Richard.
[00:27:12] Caller: Uh, good morning. I have a question for, uh, I guess both uh, Randy, you, and for Dr. Mortimer. Uh, it has to do with the functioning of the two committees that were looking at the various components of the university to see which uh, to establish some sort of a priority list. Uh, and I it occurred to me that these meetings were taking place behind closed doors. I wonder to what extent do you think this whole procedure violated the State sunshine laws?
[00:27:44] Randall Roth: Um, Ken Mortimer, why don't you talk a little bit about that process, as I understand it, just from reading the newspapers, there were two committees, one made up exclusively of researchers, the other made up of what we call teachers non-researchers, and the researchers were asked to suggest cuts on the teaching side, the teachers were asked to suggest cuts on the researchers side, and the idea, I guess, was to see where there's some overlap and then to discuss the the differences. One, is that an accurate description of the process, and two, where do we stand on this process of deciding what hard choices to make?
[00:28:24] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, it's a fairly accurate description. I'm not familiar with the details, I must say. Those committees were appointed by the Executive Vice Chancellor at Manoa and operated at the on the Manoa campus and and I remind everybody that I'm president of a ten campus system and the Chancellor of the Manoa campus and but the processes at Manoa are Manoa's processes.
[00:29:14] Randall Roth: Do you know, a specific question that Richard asked was whether it was closed door or not and violated the Sunshine laws? Tell us about that.
[00:29:30] Kenneth P. Mortimer: I'm not Yes. It could very well have been closed door, Richard. I I couldn't respond to that because I don't frankly know, but I would argue that it is there is no violation of the Sunshine law. There are a whole series of committees at Manoa that uh and at our other campuses that that operate uh uh in a closed door fashion, but there is no violation of the Sunshine law on that, and I understand that's perfectly permissible under prevailing statutes.
[00:30:22] Randall Roth: Is is this in your opinion um a good way to go about deciding what hard choices have to be made?
[00:30:41] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, remember, we've been involved in this for about three or four years. So, this is just the most recent iteration of a series of discussions that have been going on in the campus since the real fiscal cuts of fiscal '99, remember '95, I'm sorry. We took a $7 million cut in January of '95 and $28 million in July of '95. So we've been involved in this process. It's just the next iteration of it. There's also, for example, a complete review of all graduate programs that arrived on our desk in December of last year, December of '97. So these are normal university processes and there's no reason that they need to be open to the media that I know about in the Sunshine Law.
[00:31:35] Randall Roth: Okay. And Richard, you asked my opinion. I don't know much about the Sunshine Law, but I would be surprised if this violated it because if it violated it, then I guess anytime faculty members get together to talk about anything having to do with the university, uh that would be in violation of the Sunshine Law. So I don't know the answer, but I suspect that it wasn't in violation.
[00:32:01] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Okay. Thank you.
[00:32:02] Randall Roth: Thank you, Richard. We go to Bul from Pahoa on the Big Island. Good morning, Bul.
[00:32:05] Caller: Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. I would like to know why the university and the people that are in favor of the University of Hawaii don't go and make a big thing about this micromanagement by the legislature and everybody else?
[00:32:21] Randall Roth: Well, let me stop you just for a second. My perception is that uh that Ken has been making a big thing of this and the economic revitalization task force group is making a big thing of it. Ken, do you feel like you've made yourself clear enough to the legislature, just how important autonomy is?
[00:33:10] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, I think there's strong evidence on the part of the legislature that they've heard that message. Some seven or eight years ago, they gave us lump sum budgeting and each session, they've been loosening up the strings. And so I believe that it's going in the right direction. And I believe that the current legislature, the leadership, Norman Mizoguchi and Joe Souki have addressed that issue very directly, and I think that we're in the right track. But I do appreciate the fact that a lot of people in the state historically have, uh, have had trouble with what they regard to be micromanagement. I don't believe that's the case any longer. I do believe the university needs to continue to be sensitive to the questions raised by legislators in their legitimate role as public policy makers.
[00:34:26] Randall Roth: And I guess uh folks like Bul, to the extent that uh people out there can, uh... micromanagement is a good thing for why, and there are 90,000 of you in the state of Hawaii. Oh, I know. Okay. Bul, thank Thank you for your call. We do have to move on, our our lines are just full. Um, you know, on this micromanagement thing, the other day I had lunch with a group of seven or eight faculty members and we got to laughing very hard. Each of us was outdoing the other in terms of of some story about how bureaucratic some little thing had become. Uh, folks who who aren't out at the campus have no idea just how how bureaucratic it can be being what amounts to uh a part of of state government. At least that's my perception, Ken.
[00:35:16] Kenneth P. Mortimer: One has to understand that bureaucracies are oriented towards routine and there are certain reasons why this routine is necessary. For example, fair and open procurement procedures. I think what we need to do is make some exceptions so the things that really have to get done in a hurry can get done in a hurry. And I think that's what the bill will do for us. Current procurement codes, I am the Chief Procurement Officer of the University of Hawaii. If I make a willful violation of the procurement code, that's a felony. It can take uh not months but years to buy pencils and I'm I'm not really getting, but we move on to Jay in Manoa. Good morning, Jay.
[00:36:35] Caller: Hey, good morning. A very interesting talk. Uh, and what I speak to actually does uh address this question of procurement, I suppose. I'm an alumnus of 1986 and at the time uh, after toll graduation, I was general manager of the University of Hawaii radio station, which uh is at 90.3 FM. That's 90.3 FM. Oh, with the plugs. One more one more time Jay, one more time. That's 90.3 FM, 89.7 Hawaii and 91.3 on the North Shore. Uh, many people might be surprised to learn that the University of Hawaii has a radio station because it's only 100 watts and so it's almost more of a sort of broadcasting experiment than a legitimate radio station. Sounds like a light bulb. It does. Um, and one of the interesting things is that I started at that time an initiative to get a power increase through. And the money has been raised and, as far as I know, all the paperwork has been done. The current General Manager has been working assiduously to get it through the uh aforementioned university bureaucracy. And I would like to hear Kenneth Mortimer say that he was behind the power increase and would do something to move it along a little more quickly.
[00:37:45] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, I will tell you, John. Two questions, Johnny. Are you a dues-paying member of the Alumni Association? I've never been harassed by the alumni. We certainly will harass you. Consider this the first uh leg of that harassment process. And the second thing is, if you'll drop me a note, I'll get informed about where we stand on that. Okay, I'll certainly do that, sir. Thanks uh for calling, Jay. Okay, take care. Uh, you're listening to the Price of Paradise Radio show. This is Randy Roth and we're talking about uh the University of Hawaii, especially certain challenges that it faces and the various hard choices that it's needs to make. Uh, Ken Mortimer is with us this morning. In today's advertiser, he has a a comprehensive piece that addresses what he says are the are the purposes of a great university and what the needs of this particular great university are and the sorts of things that uh that we are planning to do and I encourage you to read that when you can. Uh, Ken is the former President of Western Washington University in Bellingham, Washington. Before that, he was Vice President and Vice Provost at Penn State University. His bachelor's degree is in English from Penn, an MBA from the Wharton School of Finance and PhD from Berkeley. He's a prolific scholar on academic governance and policy development and has received a number of honors. He's been the president of the University of Hawaii for five years.
[00:38:00] Randall Roth: And he has indicated uh in recent days that he is personally committed to stay through this very very difficult time and the article this morning said that he uh certainly would be willing to stay at least another five years. If you'd like to uh call we've got uh just a couple of open lines now. The number is 955-8821. If you're on a neighbor island it's 1800-955-8821. After this show uh we'll be upstairs pitching and uh if you want to call in before that and make a pledge, that number is 944-8800. Also tonight at 6 o'clock on Channel 8, that's KHNL on their newsmaker live series. Ken is going to be facing a a a pretty tough panel, Ken. Of folks who are going to be asking some very good questions and have the opportunity to ask as many follow-up questions as they feel they need in order to get answers that uh that to their satisfaction address their concerns. Again our number is 955-8821.
[00:39:00] Randall Roth: We go to Carol from Kani Ohe. Good morning, Carol.
[00:39:03] Caller: Good morning from a very cold and rainy and windy Kani Ohe.
[00:39:07] Randall Roth: You know Carol, it's almost that cold in the studio this morning. Ken is sitting here, bundled up in his UH jacket, and I've got a long-sleeve shirt on but I'm shivering anyway. We've got our air conditioning really cranked up this morning but go ahead.
[00:39:19] Caller: Okay. I I simply have a comment. Uh, having the teaching faculty propose cuts in research and researchers advise about what instructional cuts should be made. Reminds me of two things. First of all, divide and conquer, and secondly, Mao Tsetung. You remember when he had the farmers from village A go over to village B to dig up their cemetery for planting crops because villagers A didn't have the same reverence for village B's ancestors, and then the farmers from village B went to village C and from village C they went back to village A. And I I think what I'd like to see is both of these groups, the instructional group and the research group, unite in refusing to attack each other's programs and perhaps focus jointly on what cuts to make in administration. That's my comment. I know you want lines free, so I'll hang up. Thank you for listening to me. Good morning.
[00:40:15] Randall Roth: Thank you Carol for your your comment. I'm going to ask Ken to to comment on that, but you know Ken, in getting ready for this show, I took a look at some of your many many publications and it's interesting to me that a lot of what you've been writing about over the last 20 or 30 years uh you're confronting right now. Uh I've got an article you wrote called the 3 Rs of the '80s: reduction, reallocation, retrenchment and um, well article after article, you've addressed these sorts of challenges. How does a university address a problem like what we're facing right now, which is less funding year after year. Any thoughts about that or Carol's comment?
[00:40:56] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, Carol's comment, and can just be for what it is a comment, and I appreciate uh the her feelings on on that particular issue. Uh we've gone about it several different ways in the different parts of the university system. So, uh what we're talking about today is the way Manoa went about it, whereas the community colleges have done it quite differently.
[00:41:13] Randall Roth: Okay, Ned from Akiki, you're on the air.
[00:41:15] Caller: Thank you very much. It's the usual very pertinent subject, and just to going from generalities to specifics on the kind of an amateur interest in geology, geophysics is one of the key core curricular items as I understand it. I believe I'm correct that the basic Hawaiian geology text is at least 20 years old and going to more general information, I think the Atlas of Hawaii is similarly almost 20 years out of date. I just like to make those couple of points because I think they're very pertinent. There's a great deal of research that has been done and should be done on just plain Hawaiian geology. Thank you.
[00:41:50] Randall Roth: Okay, interesting comment. Uh we go to Dave from Moiliili. Good morning Dave.
[00:41:56] Caller: Hello.
[00:41:57] Randall Roth: Good morning.
[00:41:58] Caller: Um, I'm calling with a specific question for Chancellor Mortimer. But first of all, um, I'd like to say my name is Dave Bombgartner and I have been working at the University of Hawaii for over 10 years now, through summer sessions which is over by Kraus Hall in the new intensive courses in English or the Nice program. Um this program along with the help program, um down by the baseball stadium, are what I would call English language information industries on the University of Hawaii campus. By that I mean these two programs teach conversation and academic English programs to um international students who may or may not wish to continue their study of, uh let's say, English or business or computer science at the University of Hawaii, or maybe just learn conversational English and then go back to their home countries. Um, that said, Hawaii Pacific University on the other side of town, much smaller university, has an English Foundations program which is two or three times larger than both the help program and the nice program at the University of Hawaii. And in the EFP program at HPU, they have students from maybe 14 or 15 different countries. They have no dominant ethnic group that studies English here in Hawaii. They have a number of different countries that send students to Hawaii, and their program is two or three times larger than the UH's. The UH is three or four times larger than HPU. Um, at UH, the dominant, Okay, Dave, we're gonna we're gonna have to get to your question or the bottom line, the comment.
[00:43:38] Caller: My point is, at UH in help and nice, all of our students, virtually 80% of them come from Japan. At HPU, they come from all the different countries in the Pacific Basin. Question for Dr. Mortimer, why doesn't the UH aggressively market itself in all of the Asian countries? Why does it limit itself exclusively in the English language information industries, seemingly to Japan.
[00:44:01] Randall Roth: It's a good question, Dave. We uh in the history of the state haven't put a great focus on marketing the University of Hawaii. In fact, we've considered money to be spent on advertising to be illegitimate, to be not being an appropriate use of public funds. We started an aggressive program the last two years in other countries and we also don't want to ignore Japan. So, we're moving in that direction and uh I appreciate the spirit of your comment.
[00:44:24] Caller: She's been working there for 10 years and I haven't seen the ethnicity gone down one bit. 10 years.
[00:44:31] Randall Roth: Well, you've heard the president say that that there's an effort I guess can, in that direction at least.
[00:44:36] Kenneth P. Mortimer: I hope so. Thank you. And and there is an effort moving forward to market ourselves more effectively to foreign countries including Japan, but we've been in Taiwan and China and South and uh South Asia as well.
[00:44:47] Randall Roth: Okay. I know at the Law School, we were discouraged from taking non-resident students until relatively recently. And now, in as part of the self-sufficiency, uh there's a need to take some some non-resident.
[00:44:57] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, the incentives did not exist. You remember we didn't have control of our tuition until until the '96 fiscal year. So it was not a question of how you can go out and recruit more students to come to the University of Hawaii from foreign countries.
[00:45:08] Randall Roth: Talk about non-accountability, we're spending other people's money and didn't keep whatever money we brought in, huh? Remember that a public university subsidizes students. Where a private university attempts to make sure that students pay the full cost of their uh operations. Okay. We go to Sean in Manoa. Good morning, Sean.
[00:45:26] Caller: Yes, good morning. Um, speaking of non-accountability, I like to raise the topic of teaching quality, and especially how autonomy may relate to that. I I know research institutions on par with UH, um typically aren't well known for their quality of their teachers and certainly the research of the faculty members um outshines teaching ability often. And personally, in the several years I've been a student at the university here, I've had, oh, I could say maybe three, if I'm generous, three teachers who I consider to be good teachers, um as far as knowing teaching methods and theory and implementing even the meagrest amounts of those. Uh I wonder why this topic hasn't been discussed at all today. I think it is probably representative of of the lack of discussion on this front that um doesn't occur at the university on the whole. And I wonder of course how autonomy is going to impact that. It seems already the incentives are there to reward researchers and faculty members for doing their own scholarship and there's not incentive to reward them and I've had teachers actually express this to me, there's not incentive there to reward them for good teaching. And I wonder what autonomy will do, either negatively or positively, to affect that situation. It seems that teaching not to be at the heart of this whole discussion.
[00:46:54] Randall Roth: What do you think, Ken?
[00:46:55] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, I I believe that uh he's focusing his attention mostly on the Manoa campus, and again that we have some excellent faculty members all around the system. The second is the Manoa Faculty Senate just addressed this issue quite comprehensively in what is called now, I guess, the Kipness report and moves forward with a series of recommendations about restructuring the reward system and also moving forward to put all freshmen for example into learning communities where they'll have that personal touch. So, I think it is being addressed quite comprehensively by the faculty and they've made a series of recommendations to me which we intend to move on very quickly.
[00:47:30] Randall Roth: Because I know in in your article in this morning's paper you say the purposes of any great university are teaching, research and service. You put teaching first, but there has been this sense among some people on the faculty that research has been more quickly rewarded than excellent teaching or excellent service. And I guess what I'm hearing you say is from the faculty there's a movement to uh put more emphasis on on rewards, if you will, for great teaching.
[00:47:55] Kenneth P. Mortimer: And that's certainly the thrust of the Kipness report that the Senate just adopted a couple of weeks ago.
[00:48:00] Randall Roth: Okay. Sean.
[00:48:01] Caller: I'm happy to hear that. Thank you very much.
[00:48:03] Randall Roth: Thank you for your call. Sure. Uh you're listening to the Price of Paradise Radio Show. I'm Randy Roth, and if I sound like uh too friendly of a host here uh I happen to work for for this gentleman. I'm uh uh law school professor. Our guest is Ken Mortimer, is the president of the University of Hawaii. Ken, I'm I'm not doing a great job of holding your feet to the fire. I keep saying we instead of uh what are you going to do about this.
[00:48:26] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, I haven't noticed anybody who has been able to intimidate you, Randy. I I I I've never seen that around. So I think you'll probably hold my feet to the fire pretty well.
[00:48:33] Randall Roth: Look to the right there. You see my wife she she intimidates me all the time. Okay, we go to Lou from Ina Hina. Good morning Lou.
[00:48:40] Caller: Good morning. Uh my question has to do with the legislature and uh it's its attitude towards the university. Last fall when they started to hold hearings on the economic revitalization plan, they invited four academics uh in at the early stages to discuss the the an appraisal of the whole plan. Not a one of them was from the University of Hawaii. As I recall one uh Ochi I think was one from California. I don't remember the other three names. We have had two or three professors at the university uh write up blank the uh positions in the newspaper, but it it bothers me that the legislature found it necessary to bring in uh expertise from the mainland when we have so much here. But what what what kind of a message does this convey about the uh the the regard with which the legislature holds the university?
[00:49:23] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, I think in those particular cases they brought in Bill Wichi that the economic revitalization task force, just for some outside expectation. Remember I was a member of that group, right? Sitting there and monitoring it. Barry Raleigh served on the uh governor's uh task force on science and technology and so did Dean Smith, the senior Vice President. So we were intimately involved in all those conversations and in fact that shows that that shows great respect for our faculty. They always, and I think appropriately so, would like to get a little uh view from outside the state. So that uh if there's any self-interest in our promoting ourselves, they can at least get an independent view of that.
[00:49:58] Caller: Well, I I I'd argue with one point there. That is when you say they want to get an independent outside uh opinion. My my concern is that they don't view local opinion with enough uh regard and that outside is synonymous with quality too often as opposed to looking to uh substantive areas like the Economics department. I'm I'm glad that you were there, but I wish that there were more of our faculty with with area expertise who were uh invited in by the legislature more often.
[00:50:28] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, that is a general problem and the, you know, that we're too close to them and so they see us every day in the supermarket and that sort of thing. But I think there's come to be a great deal of respect for the faculty at the University of Hawaii on the part of the legislature and the public as well.
[00:50:44] Randall Roth: Lou, thanks for your call. We do have to move on, and I'll remind listeners that upstairs in the big room, we've got the spring fundraising drive going on. I'm told that they've made it to $750 during the hour thus far. They've got another $750 to go to meet the goal. Uh those of you who've enjoyed, uh hopefully there are a few out there who've enjoyed this show over the years. If you'd like to call in right now or after this show, uh we'd sure appreciate your support. That number if you'd like to make a contribution or a pledge is 944-8800. That's on Oahu. On the neighbor islands is 1888-970-8800. Well, we're getting toward the end of the hour and we've got some folks who've been waiting very patiently on the line. We're going to do our very best to get to them. First, Steve from YKiki. Good morning, Steve.
[00:51:32] Caller: Good morning. Excellent show. Here's a quickie. Given the extreme importance of of obtaining as federal funding for a number of our programs, and federal funding originates in Washington obviously, uh should it would should the university consider having a permanent uh officer stationed in Washington who can help bird dog some of our grant requests. I say this in view of the fact that I I've been involved in a number of these requests and I just got back from Washington talking to one of our representatives and members of their staff where they um they expressed the uh the value, their view of the value of the university's having someone permanently uh uh watching over our many many grant requests, some of which are, we've been criticized, are too small and they get lost in the works when when states like Texas come down with both feet on their university grant requests.
[00:52:27] Randall Roth: It's a good question, Ken.
[00:52:28] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Yeah, it's something we've looked at over the years and uh and uh we do of course maintain a presence in Washington, DC through the hiring of a lobbying firm that works assiduously on our interests. And a number of the Deans I've talked to about that decided that they better could better look out for our interests themselves. But it's an issue that I'd be perfectly willing to take another look at.
[00:52:49] Randall Roth: Frankly, the the existence of that lobbying firm is is is unknown to me. I've been there 30 years and and and raised uh lots of money, never heard of them.
[00:52:56] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Give me a call and I'll tell you who they are, but they won't help you with uh working with the agencies because most of that's peer-reviewed stuff and we have to be very careful not to interject any political element into the peer review process. Once you give me a call, we'll talk about that.
[00:53:10] Randall Roth: Thank you very much. Thank you, Steve. We go to Ted from YPO. Good morning, Ted.
[00:53:15] Caller: Hi, I'm interested in the uh library resources. I was wondering what the plans are for capital improvements and for addition to the library resources at the university. I'll take my answer off there.
[00:53:26] Randall Roth: Thank you, Ted.
[00:53:27] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Thank you very much. Of course we have a major addition to Hamilton Library now uh being designed and we want to thank the governor and the legislature for approving that appropriation, some $35 million. The second thing that Dean Smith has done at the university at Manoa is to take the library off the table when discussing budget cuts. I think that's a really significant move on his part and the library is such an important resource not just for the university, but for the entire state, that we need to protect it and nurture it and help it grow.
[00:53:56] Randall Roth: Okay, Susan from Manoa. Good morning, Susan.
[00:53:59] Caller: Yes, um I'd like to um get to the point of what model ultimately is being used for reshaping the university into um this entrepreneurial engine. It seems clear to me uh that HPU is the model, um and uh I'm wondering, I mean with all of this talk about what is slated for excellence, I noted what is uh strikingly omitted is the humanities and I do believe and I hope people will um uh stay stick around long enough to bear this out that the humanities will ultimately become the handmaidens of all of these programs and that many programs in the humanities programs will will collapse into these sort of supra-humanities areas and that we are um going to have a um a state funded challenge to HPU because that seems to be where the model is, is, is being drawn upon um for this entrepreneurial ship. I, I, because as I said, it's very telling that in all of this hour there is absolutely no discussion of academic quality. Sean from Manoa, who probably is either advanced graduate student or instructor, was concerned with issues of teaching quality, but basically, um if you can forgive my slang, all that seems to be concerned with is how to turn a buck at the university, how to make it into a, a money making machine and I, I just would like the president to address um, in as much as time as he has left, what is the state of the humanities at UH?
[00:55:25] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, uh that's a specific question. You need to call me. But let me respond to the general The reason I started my article this morning with the basic purposes of the university are teaching, research and service is because I believe the state's focus on this economic development activity has the potential to warp the university towards areas which would not be not only in our interest, but in the interest of the state. We recognize that the central feature of a university is the teaching, research functions, and the humanities are a critical part of that. Uh, as are the social sciences, and all of the things that we call the uh that are may not be leaders in the drive to participate in the economic development of the state. Let me also say there's no single model to which we refer. It's going to be a partnership between the state and the and the university to find out what works for Hawaii, as opposed to might what what might have worked in Michigan or California or some other place.
[00:56:20] Randall Roth: Susan, I assume it's at least some comfort that you're listening to somebody who's an English major in school?
[00:56:27] Caller: Um, I, do you mean President uh, President Mortimer? Yes. Well, very frankly, uh, what I'm more aware of is that his dissertation was precisely focused on issues of downsizing the universities, and I think it's no, um, I think it's also very telling that when President Mortimer was hired, the faculty was entirely bypassed, even the Deans of the colleges were not consulted. He was hired basically by the Board of Regents and the Governor. So, the fact, um, that he was an English major doesn't cheer me on. I mean, the reality is that he wasn't hired from that point of view.
[00:56:57] Randall Roth: Ken, that sounds like a a pretty good question. What What what do you have to say about this?
[00:57:01] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, I of course wasn't here, the the the the bypassing of people is simply not true. There was a wide uh committee of Deans and faculty members as well as uh regents on it and uh members of the public. I remember Gary Rodriguez was on that committee. I interviewed with them and uh a variety of people. So, I think the process stands on its own legs.
[00:57:21] Randall Roth: Susan, thanks for your call. We appreciate it. We're down to the last couple of minutes. Again, something that wasn't asked, and I'm surprised it wasn't asked, so I'll ask it. Um, how can you go out and raise money when people uh suspect that it will simply replace a dollar that currently is provided by the state, and I know you know what I'm referring to, and in 1995, I believe it was, the legislature adopted a law that basically said uh they would never fund the university below a certain level, but as the economy got worse and worse, it's my understanding, at least, that they've already slipped below that level. Um, is this wrapped up in the whole autonomy thing, or because raising funds, private funds seems to be a core part of your plan as described in the paper this morning?
[00:58:06] Kenneth P. Mortimer: It is a core part of the plan and we've had uh discussions with the leadership of the legislature, they changed the law in 1996 to allow us to use public funds to raise private money and put it in a private foundation. The attorney general has approved a memorandum of understanding, which makes the University of Hawaii foundation, the official fundraising arm of the university. The governor in his state of the state in 1997 uh proposed that the university be given incentives to raise private funds. So, I believe the leadership of the legislature, the governor, and others are committed to a uh incentives for the university to raise those private dollars. But it is essential that the state come to that commitment, that private money and increased tuition, for that matter, not be used as a basis for future budget cuts. If that happens, then a private donor would have the right to say, I'm sorry, Mr. President.
[00:59:02] Randall Roth: This morning, in your article, you ended by saying, uh if folks are looking to the university for some sort of quick fix, uh forget it. The quick ones have already been addressed and and done, and what we need is a sustained long-term effort. Can you explain real quickly just what that would entail?
[00:59:22] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Two marvelous examples. About a decade ago, we invested in the cancer center. And now we spend $2 million of state money and brings in about $15 million a year. It's about 10 years ago we invested in the school of ocean and earth science technology. We spend about 10 or $12 million a year on that operation. It brings in about $40 million a year. Those are successful investments, and they take place over a decade. Not one two months, not one year, but five years, 10 years. That's what we need in the state of Hawaii.
[00:59:52] Randall Roth: You've got about 30 seconds. Uh, give us one last word in terms of why, for all the people in this state, why they need to be concerned about what's going on at the university.
[01:00:02] Kenneth P. Mortimer: The University of Hawaii is a remarkably successful social enterprise. It pays back to the people of the state of Hawaii every dollar that's invested in it. It's a great investment for the people of the state of Hawaii, and it will be a significant factor in our ability to cope with the rapidly changing world of the 21st century.
[01:00:21] Randall Roth: Okay. Well, Ken, thank you very much. You've been listening to Kenneth Mortimer, who is the 11th President of the 10-campus uh University of Hawaii. He's been here for about five years, and he says he's committed to staying through this challenging time that the university is facing right now. Uh, the pledge drive is going on. Please call 944-8800 to uh make a pledge. Uh, tonight at 6 o'clock on KGNL Channel 8 is the newsmaker series with Ken Mortimer and a tough panel that's going to be giving him, I think, some real challenging questions. The producer of the Price of Paradise Radio Show is Suzy Roth. Our production chief is Jeff Olardy. Immediately after the show in our fundraising, tune in for Pop Classics. Uh, Alan Bunin has uh a great show. We hope you'll tune in for it. Next week, we've got Thurston Twigg-Smith talking about his new book with his critic critics. You've been listening to the Price of Paradise Radio Show. I'm Randy Roth. Aloha.
[01:00:38] Randall Roth: Uh, the pledge drive is going on. Please call 944-8800 to uh, make a pledge.
[01:00:45] Randall Roth: Uh, tonight at 6:00 on KHNL, Channel 8, is the newsmaker series with Ken Mortimer and a tough panel that's going to be giving him, I think, some real challenging questions.
[01:00:55] Randall Roth: The producer of the Price of Paradise Radio show is Susie Roth, our production chief is Jeff Alardi. Immediately after the show, in our fundraising, tune in for pop classics. Uh, Alan Bunan has a great show. We hope you'll tune in for it.
[01:01:10] Randall Roth: Next week, we've got Thurston Twig Smith talking about his new book with his critic- critics. You've been listening to Price of Paradise Radio Show. I'm Randy Roth. Aloha.