Ken Mortimer 1994 Interview
Price of Paradise · Hawaii Public Radio · aired 1994-08-07
Guests: Kenneth P. Mortimer (President, University of Hawaii)
Duration: 1:08:55

[00:00:00] Randall Roth: higher education in Hawaii and with me to discuss it is Kenneth P. Mortimer, President of the University of Hawaii. Dr. Mortimer is a well published scholar on academic governance and policy development in higher education. He is chair elect of the American Association of Colleges and Universities and has served as President of the National Center for Higher Education management systems. Vice chair of the committee on academic affairs for the American Association of State Colleges and Universities and member of the executive committee of the Western college Association. He was presented with the Association for institutional research distinguished member award in 1987 and the Association for the study of higher education's 1990 leadership award.
[00:00:43] Randall Roth: Dr. Mortimer holds a bachelor's degree in English from the University of Pennsylvania, an MBA from the University of Pennsylvania, Wharton school of Finance, and a PhD in higher education from the University of California at Berkeley. Good morning, Ken, and welcome to the Price of Paradise radio show.
[00:00:59] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Good morning, Randy. It's good to be with you.
[00:01:01] Randall Roth: You've been in charge now for about a year and a half. How about a one word description of your tenure thus far?
[00:01:08] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Exciting, I guess would be the best word. Challenging because you can never ask a president for a one word answer on anything.
[00:01:14] Randall Roth: Well, what's been the most exciting part of the year and a half so far?
[00:01:18] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, learning the ins and outs of Hawaii's lifestyle and its politics and the culture of the University of Hawaii. Those have always the most difficult and challenging things for an incoming president. Most of us have dealt with some of these issues in one context or another, but the really key thing is how those issues manifest themselves in the culture of the University of Hawaii here in the state of Hawaii.
[00:01:43] Randall Roth: Are those politics here at the University of Hawaii different from the politics at other universities where you've served?
[00:01:49] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Oh, clearly they're different and because the personalities are different and like Tip O'Neill says all politics is local. And so getting an idea of how things play out here are really what is going to be the test of leadership at the institution is how well we're able to adapt to the things as they occur here and as the way in which people expect things to be done and what they expect to be done.
[00:02:11] Randall Roth: You also mentioned challenging. What's the most challenging thing that you've encountered thus far?
[00:02:17] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, just getting a hand on the great complexity of the University of Hawaii. 50,000 students in 10 campuses and about a half a dozen learning centers spread out through the state and an institution that has great respect from the people of Hawaii and who expect it to do much more than it's capable of doing at this particular time in its history. So that's the challenging aspects of it. The university's been so successful and people wanted to do so much that it's been my lot to begin to say what it is we can realistically do.
[00:02:50] Randall Roth: What is the primary mission? I know there are many things that you try to do at the University of Hawaii, but if you had to boil it down to the primary mission, what is that?
[00:03:00] Kenneth P. Mortimer: See, again, the University of Hawaii's 10 campuses and each of them has a separate mission, and you can only address that issue on a very abstract level, almost so abstract as to make it meaningless. The people expect us to teach and educate their young folks. And of course, that is a mission. But if you talk to the agricultural community in this state, they expect us to help diversify the agriculture of the state as we deal with the reality of the declining nature of sugar and pine. And for them, that mission is equally important. As you go on to some others, they expect us to aid in the economic development of the state, and for them, that's very important.
[00:03:40] Randall Roth: You mentioned people's expectations, and it's not possible to be all things to all people. What are some of the tough choices that you've had to confront already or that you see down the line?
[00:03:51] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, the very tough choice this year is to maintain the teaching and access profile of the university. And we've come up with statements like it isn't possible for me to say that every instructional dollar is more important than any research dollar. But yet, if our students can't get into classes or are denied access, that tends to be the most important thing for that parent and that student and for the public. So the choice that we have to make is those other things I mentioned, for example, agricultural research is very important, and I cannot tell you that every instructional dollar is more important than any research dollar. So, making those choices is probably the toughest things I have to do.
[00:04:33] Randall Roth: You know, I think a lot of people would say, well, it's good for the university to be doing things that strengthens the local economy, but there's probably a perception out there that the university is studying a lot of things that are so esoteric as to be of no meaning to the people of Hawaii. Do you hear those sorts of concerns, and if so, what's your reaction?
[00:04:53] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, of course, we do hear those concerns, particularly in some of the applied areas, but I remind folks that the university, although it has a very heavy local mission, is part of a national and international community and contributes to the base of knowledge in the world. We study programs, for example, our we get a lot of credit for our astronomy studies on Mauna Kea. I think most people would say that those studies benefit the world and the nation in terms of their findings about our universe. It stretches the imagination when you state that's going to help somebody in Hilo get a better job, unless you begin to talk about the economic impact of having those telescopes on the Big Island.
[00:05:35] Randall Roth: What about the level of support that you've received from the community at large and from the legislature? How would you rate that level of support?
[00:05:42] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Very high. The legislature has treated the university and me personally with great respect. Some of you your listeners will know that I'm married to a woman who was raised in Hawaii and coming back here has been a very gratifying experience for both of us and old friends and family have been very warm in receiving us back into this community here in Honolulu and in the state of Hawaii.
[00:06:05] Randall Roth: Now, some people have suggested that the legislature here in Hawaii is intrusive when it comes to the running of various institutions, including the University of Hawaii. What's your reaction to that?
[00:06:16] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, I've dealt with legislators in three different states in my background, and it is true that this legislature tends to have more opportunity to micromanage the university than perhaps is the case in some other states. And that's largely because the people expect their legislators to know how they're going to how we assign dormitory rooms as an example. And that gets to be a very controversial issue if you're from the neighbor islands, to some place that's inaccessible to the Manoa campus. And so that can become a policy issue in the legislature when a constituent asks the legislator why his or her daughter or son can't get into a residence hall on the Manoa campus. And in other states, as I've mentioned many times to people who are listening, it is seldom that the President will be called upon to ask, to answer a question about how dormitory rooms are assigned.
[00:07:08] Randall Roth: What about admissions to the university? Do you get calls from powerful people, whether they be in politics or or powerful for other reasons? Do you get calls from people trying to influence admission decisions?
[00:07:20] Kenneth P. Mortimer: I don't think that I would use the word influence. We get calls from citizens about our admissions process and that's legitimate. People need to know how somebody gets into the University of Hawaii, or the law school, or the medical school. And we need to make sure that they have a feeling that that's a fair process. Now that's not true just here. It's true everywhere. One of the more controversial things and a president has to handle with a variety of professional schools is who gets into medical school. I don't think the conversations here have been any more intrusive or demanding than they were when I was a vice president at Penn State, answering somewhat similar questions about the medical school there. So I haven't found that to be any outside my experience. I think it's a normal extension of the public's interests in how we allocate a very scarce resource, and that's a place at the University of Hawaii's law school or its medical school, or you can mention other schools.
[00:08:15] Randall Roth: Can you say unequivocally that it is a fair process, that that somebody who's quote connected doesn't have a head start?
[00:08:23] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Yes. It's been my experience and I've looked very carefully at that and talked individually to each of the deans of those schools and colleges about that process. And I am convinced that it is free from the the question of undue influence. There is an element of judgment in a professional school when a law faculty or a medical school faculty sits down and in our case of our law school looks at 800 applications for 75 places and to get that, they admit approximately 150 students. So there are always going to be disappointed applicants who are well qualified to go to law school.
[00:09:02] Randall Roth: What about surprises? You've been in charge of the system for a year and a half. Surely something has surprised you, something was very different from what you expected when you took the job.
[00:09:12] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, I don't know what my expectations were when I took the job. I expected it to be much more complex than the last job that I had, which was President of Western Washington University, an institution of 10,000, and I haven't been disappointed in that. It is much more complex than that. But I've been fond of pointing out that I was a vice president at Penn State, where there were 70,000 students in 23 different campuses. So this position is that kind of complexity. And I've been involved in that before. So I find that to be somewhat like that experience, but again, the way in which that experience plays out here is what it's all about.
[00:09:49] Randall Roth: You're listening to the Price of Paradise radio show. I'm Randy Roth, and my guest is Kenneth P. Mortimer, President of the 10-Campus University of Hawaii System. Listeners are invited to join in the conversation by calling 955-8821. Neighbor islanders are invited to call collect. That number again, 955-8821. Ken, why is UH important to the people of Hawaii, not just the parents of the kids that are attending school there, but all of the people of Hawaii? Why is it important?
[00:10:21] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, first, it's such an important factor in the competitive nature of this state as it sits here in the middle of the Pacific and debates its ability to continue to provide an atmosphere where people can live and earn a reasonable income. You know, with 50,000 students and then with our continuing education courses and a variety of things, it's probably the case that something like one out of 15 to one out of 10 people in the state of Hawaii have some experience, direct contact with the University of Hawaii during the year. That is, they come to our they come to one of our campuses or they attend one of our games, or they go to one of our concerts, or they take one of our continuing education courses. So this institution is a big factor in the state of Hawaii, and it is accessing, probably, I say one out of 15 or one out of 10 of our people every year.
[00:11:15] Randall Roth: How direct a link is there between the University of Hawaii and in the program that it it provides and the economy of Hawaii? Uh, for example, the single biggest sector of our economy is tourism. Uh, how does the University of Hawaii acknowledge that or fight against that, or what's the reaction of of that?
[00:11:34] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, of course, we support the tourism industry here with our with our schools specifically designed to study problems of tourism and industry management in our in our state, and that's the school of travel industry management. So we're very much tied in to the major industry of the state, and then you go on to how big is agriculture, and we're one of the major supporters of the agricultural enterprise in the state in terms of trying to keep it vital, trying to learn things about new crops that can be developed here, and then we ourselves spend about $600 million a year. We are and I'm probably if you're in the private sector, I'd say I'm probably one the CEO with the second or third largest company in the state.
[00:12:15] Randall Roth: I hadn't thought about it in those terms, but you're a big operation.
[00:12:19] Kenneth P. Mortimer: We are a very big operation. Again, we spend about $600 million a year. We employ about 8,000 people. Of course, we educate some 50,000 students a year. That's a big enterprise.
[00:12:31] Randall Roth: We have several callers on the line. First, Steve from Waikiki. Steve, you're on the air.
[00:12:36] Caller: Hi. Um, I'm interested in the proposition that, uh, education, especially higher education, can be a valuable export industry. In this sense, if someone comes to Hawaii from outside of the state, particularly from abroad, and wants to be educated, or or take courses here, and they, they pay for them with their money, obviously this is bringing money into the state. And, uh, we've noted the growth in recent years of, uh, institutions that were designed in Japan actually, uh, designed in Japan to take advantage of this market of of of Kansai Gaidai and there's a couple of others, um, that are essentially taking, uh, money from Japan, bringing it to Hawaii, but then most of it goes right back. And I was thinking, whether there was some thought being put into how the university, uh, could be used to bring monies indirectly, in other words, how these markets might be tapped by extension courses or other units of the university that might be set up for this because the Pacific region is the fastest growing economic region in the world, and there's obviously a lot of people with disposable income in places like Singapore, China, Japan, Korea, and elsewhere. Well, that's a great question, lots we got that who want who want to spend their money here for education in America.
[00:14:02] Randall Roth: Well, we've got the head guy. Let's ask him. Ken, are you looking into this, or what if anything are you doing about this opportunity?
[00:14:08] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, of course, a number of, uh, our programs now are directed at that. We do a lot of instruction in English language for foreign students. I might also point out that Hawaii Pacific, the private university in the state has about 7,000 students, 3,000 of which come from off-island, and I'm told about 2,000 of those come from, uh, foreign countries. Uh, there would have to be some basic, uh, changes in the structure of the university for this idea to work very well. One of them is that we'd have to be allowed to keep the money that's generated. And we have, of course, many programs like continuing education that are self-support programs, but are not designed to earn money for the university, but are designed to provide a service.
[00:15:10] Randall Roth: And when you say keep the money, right now, does tuition go to the general fund as opposed to to the university?
[00:15:16] Kenneth P. Mortimer: The tuition to it's paid to the University of Hawaii for credit stuff goes to the general fund, and has no impact on the number of students that the University of Hawaii educates. So, while the university's enrollments were going down in the 80s, money was going up, and while the university's enrollments are going up here in the 90s, uh, the amount of resources we're having to spend at the university is going down. So, I think if we start to think about the university as a driver to bring people into the state, we're going to have to revise the financial structure, uh, that, uh, and the support we get.
[00:16:05] Randall Roth: Do you also run into a problem with the community uh resenting our university educating outsiders as opposed to educating our own kids? Is that a hurdle?
[00:16:15] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, yes, it's a logical hurdle when you think about the state putting up money to educate students and then saying, hey, my uh son or daughter can't get into a particular program, and yet you're educating all these people that are not citizens of the state, and that's a legitimate concern. Now, we argue that it diversifies our student population in a variety of ways, and that it's good for the state to bring these people to the state of Hawaii, they enrich the diversity of our cultures here, and also gives our students an opportunity to see people from out of state and to see whether they can compete in other manners of that sort.
[00:17:03] Randall Roth: And Steve, I suppose you would say if the tuition is high enough, it also is a money maker for the state of Hawaii.
[00:17:09] Caller: Well, yes, there was there were two things that that occurred to me when Dr. Mortimer was answering that last section of your question. First of all, I think a decent, any decent, uh higher educational institution is is a place where people mix with each other. I you couldn't have a university which you only educated people from the state, it would be a it would be an inbred institution. It would have no universal no universality to the university aspect of it. But I I think secondly, he's entirely right about de- uh detaching um, the um, the the the the money aspect from from simply going into the to general fund or at least making the state aware of the fact. I I'm I am I am not myself particularly well versed on the money aspects of it in the sense of how the finances flow, but it would seem to me really obvious with the enormous amount of disposable income in, uh, in, uh, places like Japan and Southeast Asia now, and with and with the fact that that they have such a great respect for American higher education, on the whole American higher education is is the best in the world, on the whole. There are some there are some holes in it some places, but by and large, it's the best and it's seen to be the best in the world. It's the place that everybody wants to really come and get a degree.
[00:18:23] Randall Roth: We should be making hay while the sun shines in this field and it's going to be growing. I I I really hate to see the money coming from Japan to places like Kansai Gaidai they know know ill well to them, and then going straight back to Japan. It's another it's a case like, uh, I think your point has been very well made. Your your point has been very well made, and Ken is sitting here nodding his agreement, and I've got a bunch of people waiting, so I really appreciate the call. Our next caller from Honolulu, Deborah. Deborah, you're on the air.
[00:18:42] Caller: Hello. I have two concerns. One is the continuing loss of green space on the Manoa campus. Oh, and those trees that have been uprooted recently, right? Well, it's not just that. It's not just that or you can see it all over campus. Um, and also the lack of a comprehensive recycling plan at UH.
[00:19:04] Randall Roth: Well, let's see what Ken Mortimer has to say about that.
[00:19:08] Kenneth P. Mortimer: I share your concern about the loss of green space at Manoa. And in fact, the board of regents accepted a long-range development plan for
[00:19:00] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Manoa in May or maybe in April which is called Manoa a sense of place. And we essentially have to stop the growth at Manoa. There is no more room there and it begins to look like too much like some of the urban campuses that I've seen in New York City. So we're going to try to appoint some group this fall to move ahead to see what we can do to get control again of the Manoa campus and to think more carefully about what it is as a place to be and a place to learn.
[00:19:33] Kenneth P. Mortimer: That the regents have agreed about that and we're going to move ahead on it. So I think you're absolutely right, this loss of green space is something that we need to very seriously look at and do something about.
[00:19:46] Speaker 1: Deborah, it sounds like the head guy shares your concerns.
[00:19:50] Speaker 2: Well, thank you and and on the recycling question?
[00:19:53] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Yes, I met with a group of students in the spring and we agreed that we would move ahead with some approach to recycling again as the academic year starts and so I'm going to do some photo opportunities if you'll pardon the expression, but recycling bins around campus. And we'll be starting a another series of conversations about recycling, particularly on Manoa. But let me also say that some of our other campuses are very concerned about that. There's a group on Maui that that spent some time in recycling, and in talking with them, I realized how difficult it is in a case like that.
[00:20:29] Kenneth P. Mortimer: I was quite shocked when I came to Hawaii and see that we didn't have the recycling emphasis here that we had in the state of Washington, whereas even in my household, we sorted out. We didn't throw garbage, I mean paper away, we sorted out cans and bottles and they were collected on the road, roadside in separate containers and so there was much a greater sense of awareness in that state than there appears to be here on the question of recycling. And I'm hoping that as the university moves ahead, we can show some leadership in that particular issue not even only for ourselves, but for the state.
[00:21:04] Speaker 1: Sounds good.
[00:21:05] Speaker 2: I'd be very pleased to see that happen. Thank you very much.
[00:21:08] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Thank you, Deborah.
[00:21:10] Speaker 1: Can you mention that we simply can't grow anymore at Manoa after we take the questions or comments from a couple more callers, I want to ask you, where do we put any additional growth to the university? But first, let's go to Anthony from Kailua. Anthony, you're on the air.
[00:21:26] Caller: President Mortimer, I'm a retired Manoa faculty member who has for five years director of interdisciplinary program and I have two questions for you. First, with regard to interdisciplinary programs, the one that I worked with cut across four or five different schools with faculty and courses and students coming from all of them. What is your position with regard to the appropriate locus for interdisciplinary programs at the university?
[00:21:58] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, I'd have to know specifically what your program was, Anthony and so forth. But in general, I have supported the interdisciplinary approaches as it affects undergraduate education, and as it affects problem solving on a part of the university. Most of the complex problems, you talk about poverty or the environment, don't lend themselves to an analysis by one discipline or one department but have to be done in an interdisciplinary fashion. So I might add also I was head of a research center for five years in my faculty days that was interdisciplinary in nature. So I have a long history of supporting such programs.
[00:22:36] Caller: Well, I'm delighted to hear it. Let me ask you a second question then. I understand that you are personally not in favor of the contracts that the schools have given to retirees for part-time teaching, and I wonder if you could comment on your views about the use of retired faculty members as a resource for the university. I personally think we are a valuable resource, but I don't know what your position is.
[00:23:07] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, you started by saying you knew my position, then you ended by saying you didn't know my position.
[00:23:11] Caller: No, I started by saying I have heard that.
[00:23:14] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Okay. Yeah. I'm not opposed to rehiring faculty members who retire. And that generally the 40% rule, you retire and then you can be hired to teach up to 40% time. The issue that I have raised is as we go into incentive for early retirement programs as to whether or not when somebody under this new program says they're going to retire, the deans will be encouraged and or allowed to bring those people back under 40% time. If you have a faculty member retiring at $50,000 and you're going to bring them back at 40% time, that means $20,000 needs to be spent, and you only have $30,000 to make the replacement.
[00:23:56] Kenneth P. Mortimer: And so I'm raising the issue of how we're going to manage that as we go forward. Let me also say however that I regard the retirement of faculty members as just another leg in a an academic career. And that I met with the retirees group and will try to find ways to keep those folks connected with the university if that's what they want. I think the only issue that you raised is whether or not we'll continue to do the 40% stuff and I think that's an issue that we need to debate in the context of this new incentive for early retirement program.
[00:24:28] Speaker 1: Anthony, thank you for your questions. Thank you. We have Joanne from Manoa on the line. Joanne?
[00:24:34] Speaker 4: Good morning, Dr. Mortimer.
[00:24:35] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Good morning.
[00:24:36] Speaker 4: My question concerns a recent rather extensive article that appeared in the Chronicle of Higher Education on the University of Hawaii. It's a national publication for those who may not know it in in Higher Education and it's a a newspaper and frankly doesn't very often feature the University of Hawaii. And this was a very extensive article on the status of native Hawaiians at the university, both as students, faculty, administrators. I noticed in the article that the reporter said that you declined to be interviewed for that story and I was curious as to why you declined, if that's correct and if not, if you'd care to decline our comment now on the articles.
[00:25:20] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, I was trying to ask the office of public relations did we decline to be interviewed? And I don't think we did. I think maybe there was a question of scheduling and when the interview could be done and she may have had deadlines, so we're looking into that. I don't think I declined. I don't remember doing that in any rate.
[00:25:35] Speaker 4: Oh, that's good to know.
[00:25:36] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Typically, and typically I don't decline request for interviews. The only issue is how do you get them scheduled, so it would be out of character for me to quote decline to be interviewed, and some of my staff wish I would decline more often. So but we are looking into that. I think the office of public information needs to understand. There's another issue in that whole article, and I was delighted to see the emphasis on how native Hawaiians are taking advantage of the education at the University of Hawaii.
[00:26:08] Kenneth P. Mortimer: And I think the article talked about we've got some problems and I would acknowledge that we do have some problems. We would like all underrepresented folks to have a place at the University of Hawaii that in which they feel comfortable being educated and believe that the university cares about their problems. And so the extent to which we're not doing that, we have problems. But I would add, we have problems in a variety of areas like that, and that I've been very impressed here at the University of Hawaii with the care with which those problems are being addressed.
[00:26:41] Kenneth P. Mortimer: But I do not believe they're going to be resolved in my lifetime. That they are problems that are going to have to be worked through in American society and in a society here in this state not only at the university.
[00:26:54] Speaker 4: Thank you, no, that's all. I appreciate your comments.
[00:26:57] Speaker 1: Thank you. Thanks for your call. You're listening to the Price of Paradise Radio Show. I'm Randy Roth, and my guest is Kenneth P. Mortimer, President of the 10 Campus University of Hawaii System. Listeners are invited to join in the conversation by calling 955-8821. Well, Ken, you mentioned earlier in the show that we can't continue to grow at Manoa. Otherwise, we'll end up looking like one of the campuses in New York City. Where do we go to Kapiolani or Hilo or just how do we accommodate an increased demand without building more at Manoa?
[00:27:32] Kenneth P. Mortimer: That's an excellent question and and requires a little longer-winded answer than I know you want me to give. So you can break it into parts, if you say, let me talk a little bit about why Manoa has gotten to be like it is. It's about 20,000 students now and it's been roughly that 18 to 20,000 students for a decade. The difference is that we have doubled and tripled the amount of research dollars that have come in and most of those go on the Manoa campus. So it isn't that we're being inundated by students, we're being inundated by the demands of our very aggressive faculty in research programs and in training programs.
[00:28:12] Kenneth P. Mortimer: So, you mentioned when our previous conversation about the research corporation of the University of Hawaii. In addition to the people that the university employs, there are about 7 or 800 researches employed by RCUH on research projects being done at the University of Hawaii at Manoa. There simply is no more room for that and indeed, the growth of our research programs in the state are very much hindered now by the lack of space to accomplish the work for which our faculty members compete.
[00:28:47] Kenneth P. Mortimer: That problem needs to be addressed. Research is a very clean industry and brings a lot of money into the state of Hawaii in addition to being of course, an extension of the interests of our faculty instruction and research efforts.
[00:29:01] Speaker 1: Is it possible just to uh cut that off and and leave that at Manoa, but to take the undergraduate program and move it to someplace like Hilo? Is that possible or you know not be coupled?
[00:29:12] Kenneth P. Mortimer: I think Hilo has grown remarkably, and again, that's one of the fastest growing campuses in our system. And in the last, I think three or four years, it's grown by about 15 or 20%. So it is growing. There's real evidence that the excellence that's represented by that undergraduate education by the university at Hilo is a message that's getting out. But I must stress again, that when you say to an undergraduate student, you can't go to a place where you can live at home, that that's going to cost that student about $5,000 to $7,000 a year in additional cost to go to college.
[00:29:49] Speaker 1: What about Kapiolani? Is there a chance of moving uh much of the university out there?
[00:29:53] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, I I don't know about the moving much of the university. Let me again say if the current trends are as they have been the last three or four years, we'll have another 5,000 students to educate in the year 2000. That's simply if if undergraduate, if students continue to come to the University of Hawaii in the same numbers the high school graduates are going up in the next few years. And we're in a situation where we're going to have to find ways to handle those 5,000 students and about 3,000 maybe 3,500 of that will be on Oahu.
[00:30:28] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Uh I ask you whether you want all of those to be piled into the existing community college system, which except for one campus on Oahu, is maxed out. It is beyond its designed capacity now. So where are we going to put those students? We're going to have to build capacity somewhere for those students. We've taken a view that that capacity ought to be built at Kapiolani and the University of Hawaii at West Oahu, and not at Manoa. And we should not increase Kapiolani Community College and we should not make Leeward Community College any bigger than it is and you go on and talk about what those alternatives are.
[00:34:30] Speaker 1: from Maui, Jane, you're on the air.
[00:34:33] Caller: Um, I'd like to know what the reasons are uh is it political or economical for not expanding the Maui campus to a four year college?
[00:34:42] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, of course, we do have a to a four year college, I see. Uh I I think Mayor the Mayor in the Maui has appointed a group to look at the uh uh possibility of expanding the situation in Maui to a four year campus and I would expect that sometime in the future, and probably not in the next five to 10 years, there will be a four-year university on Maui. But I think at the point, at this point, there are no plans in the university to create another degree granting university.
[00:35:12] Kenneth P. Mortimer: And that is simply because the needs of the state having been balanced are greater in some other areas than particularly on Maui in terms of its size. But I must say that the university does have serious commitment to expand its access to upper division and graduate programs on the island of Maui. So I understand and have met with a number of the Maui folks that that is a real serious situation and that uh we have for example, extending programs now and baccalaureate and education and a baccalaureate and liberal studies and other such programs to the island of Maui.
[00:35:46] Kenneth P. Mortimer: We simply don't have any plans to create a four year university on the island of Maui, and that I guess has been somewhat controversial for the citizens of that island.
[00:35:55] Speaker 1: Jane?
[00:35:57] Caller: Yeah, I I thought that the reason the uh Mayor was looking into starting a four year was because the University of Hawaii would not expand um the MCC campus?
[00:36:09] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, again, I think it's largely because University of Hawaii doesn't have plans to expand it into a four year university. There are buildings going up on the MCC campus and we do have plans in the new a capital improvement plan to improve the constructions there on that in MCC. We just don't have plans to create a four year univer- baccalaureate degree granting institution there.
[00:36:34] Speaker 1: Thank you, Jane.
[00:36:34] Caller: Thanks.
[00:36:35] Speaker 1: In case you joined us late, this is the Price of Paradise Radio Show. The topic is Higher Education in Hawaii, and my guest is Kenneth P. Mortimer, President of the University of Hawaii. We are live and our phone lines are open. To ask a question or make a comment, just call 955-8821. Ken, you're both President of the University of Hawaii System and Chancellor of the Manoa campus. Is that a conflict do folks at the other um locations feel as though Manoa gets special treatment because your Chancellor there?
[00:37:09] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, there was that feeling when I came and the regents told me that one of my first tasks would be to decide this organizational pattern within the University of Hawaii system. And the question that came to me at that time was did it was it a conflict of interest? And that's a question you ask a politician or somebody with ethical dilemmas.
[00:37:28] Speaker 1: Are you a politician, by the way?
[00:37:30] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Oh, I am sometimes called to operate in the political realm, but I'm not a politician. The organizational pattern at the University of Hawaii has varied over the last two decades. You'll remember that when Dr. Matsuura was President, there was a Chancellor of the Manoa campus, and they phased that out for some organizational reasons which I thought was a sound decision, but then as in Dr. Simone's presidency, the issue came up again. First, I would say there are many universities that operate just like the University of
[00:38:00] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Why? Where the president is also the chief executive officer of the largest campus. And I would point to Pennsylvania State University, University of South Carolina, the University of Minnesota. So it's not an organizational anomaly, and it really gets down to what do you hope to achieve educationally by having a president of the system and a chief executive officer of the largest campus. And in my view, it is going to be the best educational future of this university if I retained both roles. Mm, okay. We have a caller from the Big Island, from the volcano area of the Big Island. Graham, you're on the air.
[00:38:36] Caller: Uh yes. Thank you. Uh Dr. Mortimer, um what do you see as the pros and cons of having the Hilo campus become its own university?
[00:38:46] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, of course, it, I mean, uh I'm now going to reinterpret that question. I think you're responding really to it being free from the University of Hawaii and having its own governing board.
[00:38:56] Caller: Correct.
[00:38:57] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Yeah, that uh I had believed and opposed that series of developments when I came to the state and the discussion preceded my arrival here, but I believe that the University of Hawaii can uh move ahead to function as a system and uh stress the benefits of that system more carefully if the University of Hawaii at Hilo is part of it.
[00:39:21] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Let me use an example. Uh teacher education is not a problem for one campus. It's a problem for the state. And that is simply that we are under-producing the number of teachers that are needed for our public schools. One of the ways to do that of course is to create separate universities around the state and let them have their own teacher education programs. Or you can go on and talk about nursing or a variety of other things like that. It's my opinion that that ought to be addressed from the system wide level. And the preparation of teachers, using a case from our previous listener, for those who uh want to live in Maui ought to be done in Maui, and that we need to find a way to deliver those programs on that island, so that the folks who get educated there will want to stay there.
[00:40:07] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Our now approach is to educate all our teachers in Manoa, and then to send them to the neighbor islands, and then many of those folks are because they're from Honolulu, or because they want to live on Oahu, as soon as they have an opportunity, they go bump back and then, uh and don't stay in the area where they're most needed. So we can only approach that issue from a system wide point of view. We can't approach it from the separate uh locations in in on the islands.
[00:40:34] Kenneth P. Mortimer: So I have uh said I think the state of Hawaii is much better off if the University of Hawaii at Hilo is part of the system rather than as a separate with its own governing board. Thank you very much.
[00:40:46] Caller: Thank you, Graham.
[00:40:47] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Um, can the Price of Paradise books were in many ways critical of um uh the status quo in in Hawaii, at least what was going on in the political arena, and there are many, many people from the University of Hawaii who have been involved in in the creation of those books. Have you received any heat uh as a result of uh the university's association with the Price of Paradise books?
[00:41:10] Kenneth P. Mortimer: You know, Randy, long ago I figured out that I don't interpret questions as heat. I get a lot of questions from people about the about. Were there voices raised when they asked those questions? Voices have been raised, but they haven't been uh, I mean, that's a cocktail party conversation kind of a book, and it raises provocative questions about whether or not what is the cost of paradise. And I found that to be in some cases entertaining, and sometimes to be provocative, and other times just to be enlightening about the issues that we have to deal with here.
[00:41:42] Kenneth P. Mortimer: And of course, when you're uh in a dealing with a head of another state agency who hasn't been uh uh particularly well portrayed by any by a journalist or by an academic article, then there are always concerns about that. But I and it's sort of as uh uh something you talk about in the halls and that sort of stuff. And people kid about, you get your blaster, did I get mine? But that's not heat. I think there's great respect for the kinds of questions being raised and there are obviously in questions like that, there are some people who wish they weren't raised. Okay, we have a caller from Hilo. Myron, you're on the air.
[00:42:19] Caller: Hello Dr. Mortimer. Um my question addresses the performing arts, and here on the Big Island it has been uh quite successful up until the past few years, and uh I might say that our music program has received international and national and regional and even statewide recognition, particularly the Japanese ensemble um in that it's the official Hawaii Shibu branch of Tokyo's Kanda Bayashi uh Kozankai. And that program has ceased to exist and primarily it's due to the reason that Cass has taken the position that uh equal emphasis on the performing arts major courses and services courses will invariably shortchange one or more of of these uh uh uh directions. And and I would submit that the viewpoint that campus wide prioritization of of general education courses and and core curricular emphasis, especially at the freshman level at the expense of of um major and service courses is indicative of the uh philosophical bent of the current administration. How can we advocate and champion diversity in its narrowest ethnicity and somewhat radical sexual orientation context and at the same time advise incoming uh freshmen with commonality approaches which does not support intellectual diversity across disciplines?
[00:43:54] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Let's see if Ken has an answer to that. Well, I think Myron you that a long conversation I when you use words like Cass I assume you mean the Council of Academic Sciences and College of Arts and Sciences. Yeah, colleges of arts and sciences and things like that. And I really can't answer that question because I don't know specifically how the curriculum at the University of Hawaii at Hilo, I assume that's what you're referring to rather than Hawaii Community College. That's correct.
[00:44:17] Kenneth P. Mortimer: And I can't tell you how they go about arriving at the decisions that you make. In fact, that's one of the disadvantages of being president of a system in that you don't get into the munch of the details about how an individual campus arranges its general education components. So I must plead uh that I I really can't answer the question uh specifically.
[00:44:37] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Ken, who should Myron call at Hilo? Who's the person to answer his question? Be the the Chancellor, of course, is Chancellor Paran and I think and the Bill, uh, uh, Yuan is the, I think, isn't he the acting dean of the College of Arts and Sciences now? Acting, yes. That's right. Yes, so, and I think those are the folks that would be most able to answer that question.
[00:44:57] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Give them a call, Myron. Uh one comment, uh Dr. Mortimer, um it's it seems that over the past 20 years that more and more the the fine arts, the performing arts, um um is seen as an extracurricular uh activity. Uh, in fact, in the high schools here, um a music program is is outside uh the classroom hours, and uh Ken, is it uh extracurricular in your mind? Well, no, it's not. It's very, very much integrated into what it means to be a liberally educated person. Thank you, sir. Thank you, Myron. Aloha. We have a caller from Maui, Philip, you're on the air.
[00:45:38] Caller: Yes, uh good morning. I'd like to ask Dr. Mortimer um with what the role of the military is on the Manoa campus.
[00:45:47] Kenneth P. Mortimer: I don't know and perhaps your question should be a little bit more specific. As you know, we have ROTC programs and other matters of that sort, but uh and we teach military science. Other than that, I I I would have to ask you to ask to be more specific.
[00:46:01] Caller: Oh, I guess it um actually related to the last caller and his concerns about the performing arts. Um I see um the big emphasis on sports and athletics and as um somewhat related to a military uh influx of funds and I wondered if there is any relationship there.
[00:46:22] Kenneth P. Mortimer: I don't see any offhand and I and I again, the issue for sports, and people get to talk extensively about athletics, but remember again that there's about a million and a million eight that goes to intercollegiate athletics, other than that it's all self-supporting. So there is an emphasis on it and I say a million eight is a lot of money, on the one hand, on the other hand, the athletic budget is about $11 million.
[00:46:45] Kenneth P. Mortimer: So it is largely a self-supporting enterprise except of course for the capital facilities and other matters of that sort. Uh the money that we get from the military and I think that for example I believe it's true that last year we received out of our $130 million about $3 million of that came from the Department of Defense for research.
[00:47:04] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Thank you, Philip. Okay, thank you. You're listening to the Price of Paradise Radio Show. I'm Randy Roth, and my guest is Kenneth P. Mortimer, president of the 10-campus University of Hawaii system. Listeners are invited to join in the conversation by calling 955-8821. Ken, the faculty at the University of Hawaii are unionized, and I know uh that's not an anomaly but it's not the norm. I'm told that you're an expert on the subject. In fact, I'm told that you were once quoted by the Supreme Court. Can you tell us a little bit about that and share your thoughts about a unionized faculty at a university?
[00:47:38] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, of course, I told you that, so it's it's right right from the horse's mouth. You're not supposed to tell the listeners that I got it from you. Oh. Oh. Well, at one time I was a faculty member in higher education and I wrote extensively and did studies about the evolution of faculty unions, including this one at the University of Hawaii in the early 70s. And I've mentioned many times that I've had a long history of uh relationships with the University of Hawaii, but I did studies of the evolution of this union in that faculty union and the with the institution of the collective bargaining law here. This is my first experience as an administrator with a faculty union. Uh I have been administrator in a variety of other places whether and the faculty have not been unionized. I find it an interesting experience, and I find for example very crucial uh support from the faculty union on the incentives for early retirement, though in my opinion that would not have passed without the strong support of the University of Hawaii Professional Assembly. And I uh so I have found that to be uh very supportive for of the university's general development. I think all of us uh get concerned how we can't make more progress on some of the issues, but I might also uh indicate that UPA itself is concerned about issues of that sort.
[00:48:55] Kenneth P. Mortimer: And UPA is the Union. Yeah, the University of Hawaii Professional Assembly. So, I'm looking forward to continued more fruitful relationship with the union as we move forward in the coming years. In most times, and again, I uh I have my differences with some of our folks, but I think it has been a positive force for the University of Hawaii, and in moving our faculty ahead and protecting its interests in this state. Did you tell me earlier you're not a politician? That that was a pretty diplomatic answer, I think. Well, I think I'm also wouldn't fall off a turnip truck.
[00:49:33] Kenneth P. Mortimer: There was a flap several months ago. You were uh quoted in Kaleo, the student newspaper, as saying something that some people interpreted as a criticism of other quote uh of other um cultures. Could you tell us a little bit about that?
[00:50:10] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Well, I that's another one in which I want to be careful what I say because I know what's been reported and a number of us have talked about that. We were engaged in a conversation about the differences of our many cultures in the state of Hawaii. And uh I am in mention the opinion that it was quote bad stuff for a president to be talking about and that got interpreted as oh, what I was talking about was bad stuff, and of course that was not intended. And indeed, uh one of the people that did the interview wrote a letter to Kaleo saying that none of us in the in the discussion were at all offended by the nature of the discussion. So I did not say uh contrast certain cultures and say that was bad. So when somebody picked up their diploma from you and turned their eyes away from you, didn't look you squarely in the eyes, you weren't saying that that behavior was bad. Absolutely not. What we were doing was contrasting the different cultures around the island and how they were varied in the in various parts in various of our campuses. And so we uh in that conversation became natural to begin to talk about that because in the in the conversation in that four people around the table, there were varying patterns in that very comment. Were you were you surprised by how it was not only misinterpreted, but blown up so much? Well, I I'm glad to have this opportunity to say that anybody was offended by my my remarks, I sincerely apologize. There was no intent to offend. And a number of folks know that I've been involved in an interracial marriage for 35 years and it's personally upsetting to me that I would be interpreted as being uh feeling that that that patterns like that were somehow bad. I think however, as we deal with our multicultural environment, we have to learn to find ways to talk about those things that we do differently, because I believe that understanding leads to a a compromise and accommodation. And so I'm quite personally concerned about the way in which it has been played up as having been my comment that it's a bad thing and I never intended that and I believe the people in the interview support that that was not the context of our discussion at all.
[00:52:01] Kenneth P. Mortimer: And you're afraid that the way that was reported could discourage people from talking about important issues like that. Well, I'm concerned about that. I'm also concerned that people think that that's my attitude and and substantively that's not the case and and I I I just felt personally concerned about it and agonized about what I might do to try to quote set the record straight on that issue. Now make again, I'm not claiming that I was quote misquoted, I'm claiming that the context of our remarks were such that comments that were made in there were not designed to cast aspersions on any significant culture in this state but merely to point out that we do have different patterns and operations in the state and that that's something we need to glory in and understand and help us move ahead to make a culture here that is truly accommodating of all the diverse cultures in our state. So I appreciate the opportunity to talk about it, although I'm a little leery about how I can talk about it in ways that will not offend but enlighten.
[00:53:03] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Okay. I teach at the Law school, and uh each morning as I look out the window, I see the arena, uh getting bigger and bigger, and closer and closer to being finished. And I wonder, how are cars uh if they're going to be 10,000 or so people attending a basketball game, how are they going to get in and out of the quarry area uh in less than a couple of hours? I hope somebody did a lot of traffic study before they did that, but you know we're building two parking garages right there and Well, I know they're going to be well parked while they're there. Uh, but are you confident that there is a way to get folks in and out? Well, you ask me the right question and you're an Am I confident? No, I'm not confident of that. I think that there's going to be a learning period about how to get folks in and out of that particular area when we have 10,000 people in the arena. I might also add that it's going to be very rare that there will be 10,000 people in that arena. Uh we haven't sold out place to all that often. So, I think there is going to be a series of challenges for the city and for the university in how to move people in and out of that location.
[00:54:11] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Okay. Just a reminder, we're live and our phone lines are open, the number is 955-8821. Well, Ken, was it your decision to spend uh 30 or 40 or $50 million on that arena, rather than uh uh improve the library or do something else with the academic program at the university? Of course that was all done before I got here uh but I must again defend those who made the decision to move ahead with the arena, that that uh and a number of our folks at particularly contrasts that with the almost glacial progress in getting Hamilton Library on the agenda. The university in its past administration has never had Hamilton Library as a top priority. I think it's never been higher than number 19 on the list. Is it a top priority on your list? Well, we're debating that issue right issue right now uh and uh when one goes through the uh capital improvement project uh list for the board to accept in uh September, Hamilton Library will be probably among the top 10 or 11 priorities. But we are uh considering that issue uh as we speak. Uh there are many uh uh dilemmas I think that would be put forward. I particularly am concerned that some of the issues that people want solved by the Hamilton Library uh addition will not be solved. They want places for students to study, uh they want places to store books, and uh the projections are as soon as that library's up, it'll be filled.
[00:55:38] Kenneth P. Mortimer: Earlier, you mentioned the research corporation, and I believe uh Harold Matsumoto was recently uh put at the head of that. Uh at some time ago, I don't recall now whether it was 6 months ago or just when it was, but there was some controversy where some people were suggesting that that that that was somehow used to to move money to um political sources or something. Can you tell us what that was all about? The research corporation of the University of Hawaii was created some years ago, 1976 I believe, by the legislature in order to give the university the flexibility to compete for research dollars. Mhm. That flexibility comes in two basic areas in the purchasing codes. When you want a glass blower to uh blow you a new uh kind of a doohickey that can't be bought anywhere, you need to be able to move ahead and do that without going through sole source bidding and other matters of that sort. Nicey. And then personnel flexibility. That the money comes in for a year, and you need to be able to hire people quickly when you get the money, sometimes you get a grant notice on September 15 to start October 1st. You need to move ahead with uh that kind of a flexibility. So that's what the research corporation exists for. To allow the institution to compete for those federal research and training dollars. Mhm. In the evolution of this of the of this corporation over the years, they have done about 15%
[00:57:00] Randall Roth: of their business has been doing that kind of a service for other state agencies, and that's what was questioned during the last session of the legislature.
[00:57:09] Caller: I see.
[00:57:10] Randall Roth: Okay. We have several callers on the line. First, Denise from Maui, you're on the air.
[00:57:15] Caller: Yes, hi. Um, I'm concerned about the um outreach that we have here on Maui. Uh there are quite a number of students attending, um hoping to get a degree and we're hearing bad news about funding and about whether or not it will be available to us in the future.
[00:57:33] Randall Roth: Okay. Can you, I know you answered that at length earlier, could you just summarize what you were saying?
[00:57:37] Caller: Yeah, that was the, the previous issue was Maui University, this issue was access to baccalaureate education, particularly, and this year, we went through a scenario exercise for the university to consider what it would do if it got cut to 5%. And indeed, one of the scenarios we were looking at is 6 1/2% cuts. So, a number of provosts, including Clyde Sakamoto, did some scenarios as to what they would cut if they had to. Those cuts did not materialize, so I have been assured that there will continue to be those programs available at Maui that have been available in the last year or so, and I hope that responds to some of your questions.
[00:58:15] Caller: Yes, it does. Thank you.
[00:58:16] Randall Roth: Thank you, Denise. We have a caller from Kaimuki, Desmond, you're on the air.
[00:58:21] Caller: Hi Randy, Desmond Burn.
[00:58:23] Randall Roth: Desmond Burn.
[00:58:24] Caller: Um, first of all, uh Dr. Mortimer, I'd like to say that, uh my son is just graduating, and he has received uh a very good education at UH. Uh secondly, I I'm in the information industry and and one of our concerns is that, uh the development of this industry and how the university fits in, and one of the bedrocks of this industry is Hamilton Library, so a lot of us are concerned that it's being properly funded, that it's going to expand because that's one of our most valuable resources in Hawaii.
[00:59:00] Randall Roth: Well, Mr. Burn, I look forward to your support in the next session of the legislature.
[00:59:04] Caller: I will.
[00:59:06] Randall Roth: Um but that is something that you personally plan to to fight for. Better funding for Hamilton Library.
[00:59:11] Caller: Well, you again put the question in a way that I need to qualify a bit, because again, the problem with the university is when you say yes to an answer like that, that means there are no other priorities. And I can't say that. And again, I use the argument that uh I can't tell you that every instructional dollar is more important than any research dollar. You've just convinced me you aren't a politician.
[00:59:33] Randall Roth: Yes, thank you very much.
[00:59:35] Caller: But I think the Hamilton Library thing will be among our top priorities in the in the capital improvement uh situation. It will be among them. Will it be number one? No. It will Health and safety items and a variety of other things like that tend to take great and access to buildings tend to take greater priority in the CIP budget, but it will be among if not the top priority for Manoa.
[00:59:58] Randall Roth: Desmond?
[00:59:59] Caller: Yes.
[01:00:00] Randall Roth: What do you think?
[01:00:01] Caller: Uh well, I I agree there are lots of other priorities there. Um unfortunately, we're 2,500 miles from the mainland, so, uh a lot of us rely on Hamilton as being the best library not only for the university community but for the uh city or town community, and uh I think it's been underestimated by legislators and other people just how very important it is.
[01:00:28] Randall Roth: Well, Mr. Burn I I I I I want to reinforce that. I I've been uh careful to make sure that I don't make promises that I can't keep, but let me make a statement for you that I I agree with your concern about the importance that that library plays in the state of Hawaii. I'm not being uh cagey when I say this, but what I've learned in my year and a half is if I say it's important, people think that there's nothing else that's important, and that somehow it's going to turn to be number one on the list.
[01:00:57] Caller: Uh so I want to, however, reinforce that I understand what you've said and what the faculty and others have said, and I agree that Hamilton Library is a very important resource, not just for the university at Manoa, but for the state.
[01:01:12] Randall Roth: Thank you, Desmond.
[01:01:13] Caller: Right, Randy.
[01:01:14] Randall Roth: See you later.
[01:01:15] Caller: Okay.
[01:01:16] Randall Roth: Bye. Uh can the University of Puget Sound recently sold their law school to another university? What would you do if the officials from Hawaii Pacific University said, uh we'll offer some money to you, a lot of money, to buy the law school. What would you say?
[01:01:32] Caller: Well, the first thing I need to make sure is that I could keep the money. All right. And uh and the second part of it would that would I'd say, don't tempt me. Don't tempt me.
[01:01:41] Randall Roth: I were, in fact, I kidded with the Dean of the Law School about an issue of that sort because I came from the state of Washington, and I know these Seattle Universities President Bill Sullivan very well. The people in Tacoma are very concerned about selling their law school. Mhm.
[01:01:56] Caller: Uh I believe that here in the state of Hawaii, the any further demand for law school ought to be solved by a private law school, not by the, I don't believe the state can afford to expand our law school.
[01:02:08] Randall Roth: We're down to the last minute or so of our show. Is there anything that you think should be talked about that hasn't been raised yet this morning with respect to the University of Hawaii?
[01:02:17] Caller: I believe that the state is going to have to come to grips with its funding patterns in the coming year, that the university is about stretched as far as it can stretch on its existing funding base. We've taken cuts of about $23 million in the last few years. That's a cut of about 6% while our enrollments have increased by about 7%. We're at the end of our ability to make those kinds of adjustments without making serious cuts in service levels. Mhm.
[01:02:46] Randall Roth: If the community is supportive of that, how do they translate that into meaningful help?
[01:02:52] Caller: Well, you're the master of asking very specific questions, and I would ask people with yeah I would ask you guys just ask the question. Don't tell me that the university's important. Tell me where it stands in your priorities. Is it more important than something else? Absent that, the current linear projections as about the year 2020, everybody in the state of Hawaii will either be in prison or be guarding prisons. Mhm.
[01:03:19] Randall Roth: Well, it sounds to me like we as a community need to support our university more than we have in the past. Thank you, Ken, very much. I appreciate you taking time to join us today. My guest today has been Kenneth P. Mortimer, President of the University of Hawaii. Today's show was produced by Susie Ross. Phone calls were taken by Jenny and Malia Tanji with technical support from Jeff Hilardy. Tune in next week when Governor John Waihe'e will be on hand to talk about the high points and low points of his eight years in office. And as usual, you will have an opportunity to call in your questions and comments. You've been listening to the Price of Paradise Radio Show. I'm Randy Ross. Aloha.

[01:03:24] Randall Roth: Thank you, Ken, very much. I appreciate you taking time to join us today. My guest today has been Kenneth P. Mortimer, president of the University of Hawaii.
[01:03:32] Announcer: Today's show is produced by Susie Roth. Phone calls were taken by Jenny and Malia Tonji with technical support from Jeff Hilardy.
[01:03:40] Randall Roth: Tune in next week when Governor John Wahee will be on hand to talk about the high points and low points of his eight years in office. And as usual, you will have an opportunity to call in your questions and comments. You've been listening to the Price of Paradise radio show. I'm Randy Roth. Aloha.