Ethnic Humor
Price of Paradise · Hawaii Public Radio · aired 1995-08-06
Guests: Corky Trinidad (political cartoonist); Frank DeLima (comedian)
Duration: 1:09:47

[0:00:04] Randall Roth: Good morning. This is Randy Roth, host of the Price of Paradise Radio Show. We're broadcast live each Sunday morning from 8:00 to 9:00 on KHPR 88.1 FM and KKUA 90.7 FM, and then rebroadcast each Sunday evening from 8:00 to 9:00 on KIFO 1380 AM. This radio show is entirely the product of volunteers with a goal of generating lively and informed dialogue about challenges confronting the people of Hawaii. We believe such conversations are absolutely essential if we as a community hope to meet our challenges. Our topic today doesn't sound like much of a challenge. It's humor in Hawaii. But sometimes it's hard for people to get along, and maybe humor is part of the the solution to that particular challenge. At any rate, with me in the studio this morning to discuss our topic are Frank De Lima and Corky Trinidad.
[0:00:57] Randall Roth: Corky is an award winning nationally syndicated political cartoonist who's been with the Honolulu Star bulletin since 1969. He's the first cartoonist of Asian descent to break into the American journalism field. He's had cartoons just about everywhere, including the Washington Post, New York Times, LA Times, Time Magazine, Newsweek, et cetera, et cetera. I could go on for quite a while. Frank De Lima is a comedian here in Hawaii. Currently, he has a show called Pocho Nights and maybe we can hear a little bit about that later on. He's at the Outrigger Reef Towers Polynesian Palace, and he's uh teamed up with Glenn Mederos. The two of them have a show that's been getting rave reviews. He also has a new album out which I purchased last night at Tower Records, and my entire family sat around the kitchen table, Frank, and thoroughly enjoyed hearing your your new songs about the O.J. trial and uh uh oh, some other ones. One we might hear a little bit more about this morning.
[0:01:58] Randall Roth: Uh, it's been highly reviewed and I recommend it as well to our our listeners. Humor in Hawaii is the topic, Corky Trinidad, Frank De Lima are our guests. Good morning, Corky.
[0:02:09] Corky Trinidad: Morning.
[0:02:10] Randall Roth: Hey Frank, how you doing?
[0:02:11] Frank DeLima: Good morning.
[0:02:12] Randall Roth: Frank, tell me, is our humor here in Hawaii unique?
[0:02:16] Frank DeLima: Yes, because uh we have so many different ethnic groups that have been living here for so long and uh through the years we have learned how to understand each other and to and to handle each other's differences through laughter. Most people, that is.
[0:03:09] Randall Roth: Well, plus when I went to your show, uh I think if I'd looked around the room and if there'd been nothing but uh howlies there, just nothing but Caucasians, I would have been a little bit uncomfortable laughing at some things, but when you look around the room and there's this sea of humanity, all the different races, and they're having so much fun, it's real easy to get into the swing of things.
[0:03:30] Frank DeLima: Yes, um some nights there's only uh tourists. Yeah. And so I have to work a little bit harder, but they get into it. Yeah, they do.
[0:03:37] Randall Roth: Corky, um I don't know, is is your trade uh such that that you're trying to be funny? You're a political cartoonist, and so as such, you're you're a commentator on uh society and and politics and all sorts of things. Um, how do you see yourself?
[0:03:53] Corky Trinidad: Well, first uh any any comedian or cartoonist who tries, who try to be funny uh will not be funny. Mm hmm. Uh, as uh I don't think uh Frank and I sit down and say I have to be funny. I have to be funny. I think we just have something to say, and uh we think uh in a way where we like to make people feel good more than to choke people with uh with our thoughts. Mm hmm. Seriously. There's also a a point to the uh uniqueness of Hawaii that Frank talked about. Uh, all ethnic groups around Hawaii uh grew up in the plantations, all of us. And when you have all of that, you develop a certain family like uh atmosphere uh that makes Filipinos love with Japanese and the Chinese, we were in it together in us, so that we're very comfortable uh laughing at each other's foibles and follies and stuff like that. It's very family.
[0:04:59] Randall Roth: So just as members of of uh a real family, kid eat kid kid each other and joke around, you say here in Hawaii we're we're just a bigger family.
[0:05:09] Corky Trinidad: We just a bigger family. It it it develops like for example, in any group, like a Boy Scout when they go camping, they develop this certain familiarity with each other, and they can kid each other's, you know, errors and stuff. And uh it becomes bigger and bigger as you get uh you know, bigger and bigger groups. Right.
[0:05:31] Randall Roth: You agree with that, Frank?
[0:05:32] Frank DeLima: Yes, um that was what happened. But the thing is that we have newcomers now. And that's the thing that's that's that's the part. That's what's harder now.
[0:05:42] Randall Roth: You are looking at me. What is this?
[0:05:44] Frank DeLima: No, no, no. In other words, some people that um come over here and having a hard time already just to to settle in. That's right. Um, do any any kind of negativity or or any any thought about them, where they came from, who they are, may um hurt them, you know? And uh that's that's the problem that I'm dealing with. That's right.
[0:06:06] Randall Roth: And I guess we call this political correctness. Is that the the term? People who don't see any humor in uh what what you do?
[0:06:12] Frank DeLima: I think is called, you know, getting used to.
[0:06:17] Corky Trinidad: Once they get used to, then then it's okay, you know?
[0:06:19] Frank DeLima: Most days uh political correctness is more political than correct, so. Yes, I think uh there two sides to I know not not two sides, but there two important parts of being of having a sense of humor, the ability to laugh at others, and the ability to laugh at ourselves. Mm hmm. And I think in these days and these times, there are more people who don't know the second part. Mm hmm. So that that I think that's what's happening. Because there's more people speaking out about it, that's why, and using negative reasons for the fact that they that people shouldn't laugh at themselves or they shouldn't say things about other people.
[0:06:59] Corky Trinidad: But I think in general uh people that can understand that they're imperfect and and try to perfect themselves, which is impossible to be perfect, but to try to perfect themselves, then uh in the long run they have a better understanding of who they are. And when people pick on them, um you know, they just brush it off and keep going until they you know, they they have to find themselves and they have to understand themselves first. And then you know, if there's some racist person or some mean person that comes up to them and now if it affects their job, you know, when they you know, then or affects their where they live or stuff like that, then they got to look for help, but I think that um in general if if there's comedy, you know, comedy helps lighten up things and helps people to get along with each other, helps them understand that, oh you know, maybe they do think this is funny, you know, so well, let's laugh along with them.
[0:07:54] Randall Roth: Speaking of uh of comedy. Uh, listeners, if you haven't seen this morning's advertiser, when you see it, open immediately to the focus section, page B3. The headline is, a portagee guy and a paque, paque. Uh, Corky. And then, local humor product of ethnic mix. There's a quote that they pulled out from a piece that you wrote, Frank. And it says, and these are your words, I'm aware there's a fine line between ethnic humor and outright racism. The difference is humor is told without any anger or bitterness in your heart. Does that kind of sum up your thinking of this uh controversy?
[0:08:32] Frank DeLima: I think so.
[0:08:33] Randall Roth: Corky, what do you think?
[0:08:34] Corky Trinidad: I think so. Uh, you listen to uh someone like Don Rickles, he would have the same uh attitude.
[0:08:43] Randall Roth: Um, are there limits? Are there some issues, Corky, that you simply can't uh can't deal with in a cartoon form because people are going to be offended? Uh, I anyone reading the letters to the editor knows that you have some folks that get upset at you from time to time. Yesterday's Star bulletin, somebody didn't like a cartoon you did recently about hikers that mentioned the helicopter and they said that was terribly insensitive. And several months ago you had a cartoon that involved people on the golf course calling in a bomb threat. They said, no no no, bomb threats off limit. You cannot kid about that. What do you think?
[0:09:19] Corky Trinidad: Well, I'm the worst person to ask that question because I don't think any issue is uh uh taboo, you know. Uh, any issue is open. I think to me, even to Frank, the only limitation we give ourselves is really good taste. Yeah, you know just ordinary human good taste.
[0:10:21] Randall Roth: Well obviously the church isn't off limits. Is is anything sacred, Frank, anything that you can't kid around about?
[0:10:33] Frank DeLima: Mm, just his mother. Even mom says it's okay, I can tell stories about what happened when I was growing up, and she laughs too about it.
[0:10:41] Randall Roth: I got to be honest. If if we hadn't bought your album and sat around the table last night listening to it, I would have said, well what about something like sovereignty, which is is really very serious, and it's something that a lot of people feel you can't really kid around about. Um, do you mind if we play a little bit of uh your sovereignty Katel song from your album? Sure. Why not? Philip Hutchinson out there with the controls, can you run that for a bit? Okay, Philip, I think we've got. We've got the general idea, Frank. Uh does this mean sovereignty is not sacred, uh a subject that's too controversial to kid about?
[0:12:45] Frank DeLima: Well, let's put it this way, I'm part Hawaiian. I understand what sovereignty is all about. Um as far as uh what I did in the Katel, it's a it's a subject matter that is popular and uh and to make light of it to a degree, not saying that it's wrong or right, but just to um talk about it and more people will listen to it. And to me, I think it it was funny. What I did, and I mean Yeah Corky was over here rolling in the aisles.
[0:13:16] Corky Trinidad: It's just clever, you know, clever stuff. And
[0:13:19] Frank DeLima: Well, I I really think that there are just no people have a presupposed, assumpt assumption that sub some subjects are controversial, some subjects are not. All subjects are first the same, they all start out the same ground I think and there are no subjects that are determined beforehand as being controversial. Now if I if I going to if I'm going to treat a subject like, let's say murder and I do a cartoon saying that murder is good, then it becomes controversial. I think the the controversy is Making a making it is how you make it, yeah? Just talk about it, but not taking sides. That's right. Well now Corky, you take sides in your cartoons. do does the side in the cartoon reflect your own thinking, or is it just kind of an accident of how the cartoon came about? For example, in yesterday's Star Bulletin, somebody was saying, oh I really liked Corky's cartoon about legalizing prostitution, and uh it was poking fun really at the at the politicians. Um do you make some statements that if you were writing a column, you would be making with words? Do you make statements with your cartoons? Yes, I that's how I start. I don't start saying I wonder how I can be funny today. I start by saying, this is my subject matter, Uh-huh. And this is my thought about this subject matter, so I'll make a statement.
[0:14:46] Randall Roth: Yeah, how do I do it? And is the idea of the cartoon to kind of disarm people to open their minds to this you know common, you know, it's it's commentary. It's commentary. It's mine. Uh all cartoons are very subjective. The just the way you put a line in uh becomes very subjective. Yeah. Uh but I don't force people to go by my thoughts. Yeah. Okay. Let me remind our listeners that this is the Price of Paradise Radio Show. We call it pop radio. My name is Randy Roth. Our topic today is humor in Hawaii. With me in the studio to discuss it are Corky Trinidad, who's a political cartoonist with the Star bulletin, he's been there for all of 26 years, and Frank De Lima, who is a professional comedian who performs here in Hawaii. If you'd like to ask them a question or make a brief comment, all you have to do is call us at 955-8821. Neighbor Islanders are always invited to call collect. The number again, 955-8821.
[0:15:52] Randall Roth: And before I forget, I got a call from Bud Smizer the other day, who mentioned that the two of you are going to be available live and in person at the Alam Moana Hotel sometime next month, talking about the same thing, humor in Hawaii at the East West Center annual luncheon. Uh, do you know what that date is, Frank? Probably your manager has your calendar.
[0:16:12] Frank DeLima: I have no idea. Well but I forgot the date, but September 19th or something, I'm not sure.
[0:16:18] Randall Roth: Anyone interested in getting those details uh could call uh me at the Law School or Bud at the Star bulletin or or anyone at the East West Center and uh that'll be an opportunity for people to see the two of you live and in action. Again, if you'd like to ask these uh fellows a question or make a comment, the number is 955-8821. Both of you spend tremendous amounts of time in the schools. Frank, I know you try to go to every single school every year, which is absolutely amazing. Absolutely mate, that's a full time job and a half by itself, and Corky, I think you're just about one step behind Frank. You get I think we've gone to every school already.
[0:17:02] Randall Roth: Ah, you know, I'd I'd love to spend a whole show just talking about what the kids are interested in and what they're saying to you, etc. But but tell me what's the main theme that each of you like to uh uh to to share with the key, Well, my my producer wife has said, oh, we've got somebody in a car, and we've learned when they're in a car, we need to take them right away. Uh, Brian in a car. Yes, sir. Good morning. You're on the air. Good morning. I appreciate uh your your helping to get me on. I am on a cellular. I have a a a point to make uh about uh a Corky's uh cartoons.
[0:18:05] Caller: I'm thinking of his comment of the importance of uh good taste, and and also the comment about the importance of keeping things in good humor, and I'm thinking of a couple of cartoons that seem to me to have crossed the line and I just wonder whether or not I'm in a world all my own or or or whether or not I'm I may be on to something here. And I'm thinking, I'll give you an example. About six months ago, the uh house was working on a bill to require uh firearms applicants to pay a $25 fee to cover the cost of fingerprinting. And the chairman of the House judiciary committee, uh Terrence Tom was promoting that bill, and there was another feature in the bill which would allow uh spouses, husbands and wives, uh who both are perhaps sports shooters to have a joint ownership provision, which does not now and did not then exist. The reasoning was that under the old law, both people would have to have their own firearms if they wanted to go to the range and shoot, but under the proposed change. Okay, okay. What tell us about the cartoon, and why it offended you? The cartoon depicted Chairman Tom as being uh someone who was profiteering. He was he was in in Tom's gun store with a very
[0:19:00] Caller: unpleasant grin on his face, standing behind the counter selling guns and the suggestion was that he was profiteering off of an increase in gun sales which was a total distortion of the reality. So either Mr. Corky doesn't understand the issue or, which in his case he was ignorant, or else he was trying to editorialize in a most negative and and way which was in very poor taste.
[0:19:22] Speaker 2: And Brian, I assume it's fair to say that this is an issue that you feel strongly about.
[0:19:27] Caller: I feel strongly about fairness and I feel that the chairman's integrity was was degraded.
[0:19:33] Speaker 2: Brian, right. You feel strongly about the gun control issue. I just I want to kind of I'm going to ask Corky to respond to this but I'm curious whether this is an issue that you feel strongly about or or you don't feel strongly about.
[0:19:47] Caller: I feel strongly about about Terence Tom.
[0:19:50] Speaker 2: Okay. And not and you don't feel so strongly about gun control?
[0:19:55] Caller: No.
[0:19:56] Corky Trinidad: Okay, Corky. What do you think? First, the the issue of profiteering was not really in the correct tone, and that's not even my point, nor my my opinion or the thought that I had for the day. If people like to read more on the cartoon, it's just not my I can't do anything about it. Uh.
[0:20:17] Speaker 2: Kind of a Rorschach test, is that what you're saying that that people can read in the cartoon?
[0:20:20] Corky Trinidad: I even I even made the gun store really nice looking and I called it a uh a boutique instead of a store, so, you know, uh.
[0:20:31] Speaker 2: But but what we're saying is that in in your opinion that didn't cross the line and in Brian's opinion, it did cross the line.
[0:20:38] Corky Trinidad: The Latin has always said uh uh the gustibus non est disputandum, you know, uh you cannot argue tastes. Some some people will think when it comes to taste, there will always be an argument. There are always some people who don't like your taste and some people who will not like.
[0:20:56] Speaker 2: Brian, we we appreciate your call. I think here we just have a difference of opinion as to whether the line was crossed or not.
[0:21:02] Corky Trinidad: Well, that's good. You know, we always have a difference of opinion.
[0:21:05] Speaker 2: And I guess one of your goals, Corky, is to get people thinking and talking about these things.
[0:21:09] Corky Trinidad: To differ from me or to agree with me or something.
[0:21:12] Speaker 2: Okay. Brian, thank you very much for your call. We we had a a name on the the window just a moment ago, Frank, that had me smiling, Glenn Medeiros. No, no, no, no, not Glenn Medeiros.
[0:21:23] Corky Trinidad: Gee, I thought people were sleeping at this time.
[0:21:29] Speaker 2: Margaret from Kailua. Good morning, Margaret.
[0:21:32] Caller: Hi. Uh, well, Frank Delima?
[0:21:34] Speaker 2: Yes.
[0:21:35] Caller: Uh, I heard that your show was great at the base.
[0:21:39] Speaker 2: Oh yes. We did uh what is it? Last night, the bay, the Bay Fest. Bay Fest, yeah, for 1 hour. And we had a great crowd.
[0:21:49] Caller: Okay.
[0:21:50] Speaker 2: Thank you.
[0:21:51] Caller: Yeah. Thanks very much.
[0:21:52] Speaker 2: Thanks for calling in, Margaret. Uh, what was that name that appeared on the window a moment ago, Frank?
[0:21:57] Frank DeLima: Glenn Medeiros. Glenn Medeiros. Now you know, there are some Glenn Medeiros in the phone book, and I'm under the impression that they get some calls themselves once in a while.
[0:22:07] Speaker 2: I meant most of them. Why?
[0:22:10] Frank DeLima: Tell us about that name. Well, that the thing is that people, you know, when when they get excited about comedy, um, then you get those people that get a little bit mean. And then they, you know, it's it's a funny thing and to the point where they start calling these poor things and they they start harassing them, and which was not my intention. And uh and they did, you know, they were get so they had to change their number.
[0:22:35] Speaker 2: But but you had a song where that was a name and and you were kidding uh the Japanese in general. In general.
[0:22:43] Frank DeLima: Yeah, so it's just it's like John Smith, right? That's what it boils down to, you know, but I just I didn't know that they had their name in phone book.
[0:22:53] Speaker 2: You know, the the the OJ trial is still going on, but months ago, uh, toward the beginning of this, there was a fellow who was giving testimony. Uh, his name is Dennis Fung, and at a point in time when the defense seemed to be scoring some points, this uh witness didn't seem to be doing a a great job, or at least that was the impression I got reading the article in the newspaper. Uh, one of the attorneys on the defense side on OJ's side, afterward was outside the courthouse house handing out fortune cookies and saying they came from Hang Fung restaurant and uh, saying, we're having Fung. And there were articles all over the place about how this was terrible that they were making fun of this Asian fellow's surname and this was inappropriate. The person who wrote the article that I have in front of me actually went to the trouble to look in the yellow pages to see if there is a Hang Fung restaurant and there isn't, and therefore this was inappropriate, shouldn't have been said. Corky, what's your reaction to that?
[0:23:53] Corky Trinidad: Well, you know, if if it never bothered Senator Senator Hiram Fong for many, many years, I I think uh uh it shouldn't bother anybody now. I I think uh people are just being being more uh sensitive now when it comes to themselves. I think the it like the ethnic jokes that Frank does, the certain ethnic group that complains, like let's say if there's some Filipinos who complain about the Filipino jokes, these same guys are probably howling in delight when he's talking when he's giving jokes for the party jokes. So re as I said before, it you have to go back to your understanding of humor that it is both laughing at others and laughing at ourselves. I think most people don't know how to laugh at themselves now.
[0:24:45] Frank DeLima: Frank in in this morning's article in the paper, uh, you were saying that that one time a a little old Filipino lady, uh, walking out of Our Lady of Peace Church, spotted you and said, Frank Delima, I hated you when I first came. Tell us about that. Yes. She she she came out of church, we both came out of church and she was a little bit behind me and I heard the Filipino accent and I went, Oh my god. Okay, here we go. And she said, uh, Frank, it's not email, of course. No, it wasn't. But I did see email the out of Sacred Heart Church. It's a true story.
[0:25:22] Speaker 2: Did she like uh, you know, left my shoes in San Francisco or? Well, she she didn't care because she's an entertainer.
[0:25:27] Corky Trinidad: So she understands um, comedians, she understands everybody.
[0:25:31] Speaker 2: Okay. Back to the little lady. Anyway, the little lady, um uh told me that uh, you know, that when she first came to Hawaii, she was very upset at the fact that, um, she was being teased and her ethnic group has been teased. But as she learned about it through the community at Our Lady of Peace, she realized that um, it's very important to understand that, you know, she's not perfect and that, you know, there are stuff in her culture that people from other cultures think are funny, especially living in Hawaii where it's established already, that ethnic humor has been around for a while.
[0:26:09] Frank DeLima: And but she didn't tell it to me in that way, but, you know, in her, in her simple way, she um, explained to me that um, it made her life here in Hawaii much easier when once she understand.
[0:26:18] Speaker 2: Once she caught on.
[0:26:20] Corky Trinidad: I have been, I have been, you know, uh, I have had complaints of Filipinos, you know, I'm Filipino. Like, at one time when they try everything to a lot of, uh, smuggling of, uh, of crack, or what they called Bato, coming in from Asia, especially through the Philippines. And they were always getting caught in the airport. I had a cartoon where this guy never got caught because he was putting it inside bottles of bagoong, you know, and uh, and I had a lot of, uh, Filipinos who said that I was anti-Filipino.
[0:26:58] Speaker 2: Oh, so, and their smuggling drives, is that? Yeah. Well, yeah, this crack. Yeah. Uh, well, you're listening to Pop Radio, specifically Frank Delima and Corky Trinidad talking about humor in Hawaii. We'd love to hear from you. If you got a question or a comment, our number is 9558821 and in a minute, I'm going to get back to, and now we've got a Melda calling from Miki. In a minute, I'm going to get back to my questions about all the talks you do in the schools, but we've got Carol from Manoa on the line. Good morning, Carol.
[0:27:25] Caller: Good morning. I'm a big fan of Frank De Lima and, and I like Corky's uh, cartoons, but what you just said about the, I think it was Dennis Fung jokes, I take exception to that because, um, Frank said earlier that the one of the goals in his mind when he does his humor is that his jokes come out with no hate or or rancor. And I suspect that a lot of the jokes, especially those being made at someone like Mr. Fung's expense on the mainland, were made with with racist content, and I I wonder how how can you achieve um what I would what I would call legitimate ethnic humor that is done without hate? How do you keep that from giving cover to the to the racist kind that really does have a negative content or a subtext?
[0:28:13] Corky Trinidad: That's tough because you have to go by uh by the specific topic of the time. I, first of all, uh, Frank and I wouldn't make jokes about Fung's names. Uh-huh. So, the the subject that uh, you brought up were specifically brought by the defense uh trying to trying to ridicule Fung. So, So this was that fine line that Frank was talking about. He crossed it because he was doing this to denigrate the person. I, I didn't want to go into that because I didn't think it touched our our treatment of it. Uh-huh. So, that was in bad taste, you would say. They were not comedians. They were not uh, cartoonists. The the way they did it is part of the of the trial. So, it's not I, I don't think it touched in our uh uh I see that. I, you know, I didn't see that, and I, I do now. It's not really. Um, I'm, I'm holding an article from the July Honolulu Magazine, and I just want to read one paragraph uh, because I think it relates to what what Carol has raised. It says, racial stereotypes at a comedy club may be benign or they may be appropriate among people who have a relationship built on love, respect and trust.
[0:29:31] Speaker 2: But what troubles me is when stereotypes are used to place certain races in inferior position while making other races appear superior. In Hawaii, this is often accomplished by use of a lighter, darker scale. The darker one skin, the harsher the stereotype. Now, I think there's an aspect of what Carol is saying, but now she's pushing into territory that I think you guys feel are are on the the the okay side of the line, right? Yeah. Okay. I I agree with Carol, of course. Yeah. Yeah.
[0:38:00] Speaker 1: for me. Uh like my cartoon is a pier all over the place, uh you know, the mainland and Europe. So I assume that it has a wide acceptance of my type of humor.
[0:38:13] Speaker 2: It's not just for the local folks who know the history, etc. Okay.
[0:38:18] Frank DeLima: Uh I think what she heard was a comment that was made by the the person from the Allied of Peace and that was her interpretation. That was her interpretation. Yes. And and I think that my my purpose is, well, I was I'm a local boy and I think when I started, you know, doing comedy, um before I became a professional, it was accepted by family and friends, uh by my schoolmates and and seminary, you know, I mean it was just a a part of my life and I didn't hear any comments against it all through my uh years in including the seminary. Then when I started uh as a professional and I got more popular, then it touched people or people heard um the same jokes or similar jokes that I was doing all through my younger life. And then I started saying, why are these people getting mad? Because, you know, I as being a local boy, I never saw any negative reaction to um anything I'd have done. And so I started to realize maybe I should start thinking about what I'm doing.
[0:39:23] Frank DeLima: And because of that, um I built this whole thing about understanding oneself. And uh and as far as people moving to Hawaii, um I feel that uh when someone moves into a new place and they want to to become part of that land, then they want to learn.
[0:39:47] Speaker 1: I can understand I can understand Carol, Carolyn a lot, because when I first came here, 16 59. I and I watched a show uh with the society of seven. Very, I was very new in town about a week old or something. And Zulu uh was called in up up the stage to to join the society of seven. And he started with a lot of Filipino jokes uh.
[0:40:13] Speaker 2: You didn't appreciate it.
[0:40:14] Speaker 1: Oh, I I I wanted to go up the stage and beat him up, but he's too big. And uh I re uh at first at first hearing it really rankles you, especially I think here, there are many uh there are many Filipino jokes here that was born only uh within the context of the plantation and Hawaii. So that people from the Philippines When they hear it the first time, it's even alien to us. You know, so it's uh Carolyn is uh understandingly disturbed. You know, uh
[0:40:50] Caller: Yes, I I think the reason why I'm disturbed, not so much that I don't have a sense of humor. My husband is uh, uses me all the jokes, but it's more because of the children who kind of stereotype each other and all the more they kind of alienate themselves from their roots and all that. And the way they alienate themselves even from their plantation roots and I think that's not very healthy for uh for um for for community building. And I really value actually what Frank Delima does in schools and what Corky Trinidad, and I I guess I'm what I'm telling them is, well, maybe it's two ways true, it's something like, we, newcomers or whoever don't understand, we'll should have the responsibility to try to understand. But at the same time, people in power like you who can influence, I feel like, should also do a little bit of adjusting or teaching, I don't know, I'm not taking, you can take away your humor, but I'm taking Okay.
[0:41:41] Speaker 2: Carolyn, we've got a whole bunch of people on the line. I really appreciate uh your sharing all of that with us. Um, I want to see if Frank or Corky have anything they want to add to the comment that the the Carolyn just made, and then we'll move on. Go ahead.
[0:41:52] Frank DeLima: I just like to say that um one of my reasons, like I said when I first started, and I heard negativism and uh here and there, not too much, but enough. That's what caused me to um start going to the schools knowing that we have a lot of young people that are going to schools and need to adjust in the schools. And my purpose is to let them understand you can have fun, you know, but you have to understand to respect each other as well. And children can be mean, and they because that's the way they are. They they they tease because it's natural for them. Mhm. And so I try to teach them to channel their creativity. And so that way everybody can have an easier time growing up. And if they can do that, then once they reached adulthood, they have developed a sense of humor. And then they can handle wherever they go, anywhere in the world, any comments made about them.
[0:43:11] Speaker 2: I I happened across the street from the Law school is the um uh Andrews Amphitheater at the university. One day I saw bus after bus after bus unloading all of these kids. So I walked over to see what was going on, and there were thousands of kids there listening to you. So I listened to it. You really push self-esteem. You're really helping those kids, I think, develop this positive self-image.
[0:43:22] Frank DeLima: I think it's very important. Coming from Hawaii, when I went to the mainland to college, I got um you know, there were comments made about me. My accent. I have an accent. And the fact that we're from Hawaii, so therefore we're supposed to be in grass skirts and and uh we don't know too much about anything. But because I've I grew up with a lot of fun in my family, it it just I took it and I used it. And to bring it out in the open and had more fun with it. And uh but it's not easy for everybody to do that, you know. It's very difficult and that's why some people get upset.
[0:43:47] Speaker 2: Okay, you're listening to Pop Radio. My name is Randy Roth. Our topic is humor in Hawaii. I have with me in the studio Frank De Lima, a comedian and Corky Trinidad, a political cartoonist. We've got uh four people on the line right now and we're going to uh start moving through those calls fairly quickly. If anyone else would like to get in line, our number is 955-8821. Steve from Scofield Barracks, good morning.
[0:44:11] Speaker 3: Hi, good morning. You're on the air. Uh well, um I'd like to say that uh uh Frank De Lima is is in some ways indispensable. He's if I'm thinking that with all the ethnic groups that are here in Hawaii, if we didn't have someone like Frank to uh to help us laugh at each other, we we'd always be steering past each other if not fighting with each other. Um, but the the one thing that that does bother me, and it it isn't about Frank's work, but that that sometimes the uh the uh jokes get to be a little too sensitive. I'm Jewish and as I was a child growing up hearing a Jewish jokes, not not by Jews, but uh sometimes they uh they cut a little bit too deep, and I'm sure the blacks uh feel the same way about the about the jokes about them and and so on.
[0:45:02] Speaker 2: So you're saying there's a line that can be crossed. It sure is. And and Frank in his piece in the paper this morning, I think said that line is crossed when there's anger, bitterness in the heart. But ultimately, as Corky said, it's subjective, and people are going to disagree on this.
[0:45:16] Corky Trinidad: Well, when it comes to those jokes, uh I think uh it's just natural, no, it's not natural, but uh it's it's part of the history that uh the I guess what they call the lower class of people that comes in in a certain country, like before it was the Europeans, and then the Polish, then the coming in looking for more, looking for Coming in, the joke, if you notice, they take the same jokes and it becomes the Polish jokes. Then it became the, you know, the Portuguese jokes, and the Filipino jokes, and something When Frank made it the hell the joke this morning in the paper, it's really the same joke. Uh it is something to do with uh the economic uh conditions of of certain ethnic groups. So, within the, I don't think really uh that uh it's personal. Because it's really if you look at the Irish jokes, uh by a of a of a of a certain time, it became uh, you know, a Polish jokes, then it became Portuguese. It's the same jokes.
[0:46:23] Speaker 2: I grew up in a small farming community. It's 100% German ancestry and we told Fritz jokes, we call them all the time. Steve, I appreciate your call. We've got to move on to get to some of the other folks who've been waiting. Our next caller is thank you, Steve. Our next caller is Andre from Waikiki. Good morning, Andre.
[0:46:40] Caller: Good morning, Randy. I'll make this quick. I've got to get to the office.
[0:46:43] Speaker 2: I think Corky knows who this is.
[0:46:45] Caller: And and Frank, uh you've uh you've been before my Christmas parties many times. I just want to say that both Andre and Jane thank you too. Make Hawaii a much better place to live with your humor. Thanks very, very much.
[0:47:00] Speaker 2: Oh, that's very nice Andre. Appreciate it. Have a good morning. Our next caller is Randall from Kalihi. Good morning, Randall.
[0:47:07] Randall Roth: Uh good morning. Um everyone's been making comments about the ethnic jokes, but there is another ethnic group out there that is not an ethnic group. It's uh homosexuals. I was wondering how do how does uh Frank De Lima feel about um jokes about homosexuals? Is that good for the self-esteem of young um people, adolescents who are trying to deal with a lot of the negative um images of homosexuals.
[0:47:48] Speaker 2: What are there some topics that you just can't um you know, you know, the the caller is suggesting that when you get into certain topics like this, you're you're taking a position. Yeah. One way or the other. I think that in general comedians will do anything like dress up as as women or or make comments about whatever and um and people will uh take it according to how their mind is, okay? Um, as far as homosexuality, and because I am part of the church, um, of course there are certain restrictions as far as what they can, you know, they can be people, they can be humans and they can exist in this world. But there are certain rules that abide by that. And as far as kids like growing up in the schools, I did not make I I of course I do not make any jokes about that.
[0:48:42] Frank DeLima: I have not made any jokes. I of course I dress up as women. You're not a political commentator. You're just getting people to laugh. Yet, yeah, because the funniest thing, I think the funniest uh skit and other comedians before me have done is when you have a man dress up as a woman, and and do those things and it doesn't has say anything about homosexuality at all, but it's up to the person. See, what happens is people because they are who they are, sometimes they uh think that people are picking on them because of what they are. And uh if they are not, you know, in the general status of things, you know, they like the the the the 90% era, then they going to they they want to think it is zeroed into them. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and so it's it's it's comedy that's. Anything that's that's humorous is going to threaten some people.
[0:49:29] Frank DeLima: Right. And if there are people that are are fighting this this problem uh when they're in schools, you know, then, you know, I have not touched on that subject. All I want to say is when I go to the schools, I talk to everyone equally about self-esteem. Okay, thank you. We make jokes about heterosexuals too, so. Yeah. I know Corky, you've got a cartoon from the couple days ago involving some some rats and sex change. I was going to ask you about that later on, but we've got some callers on the line. We need to move on. Thank you, Randall. Our next caller is Clarence from Kaimuki. Good morning, Clarence.
[0:50:02] Caller: Good morning. I'd like to take accept to one of the things that Frank had said in his visits to the schools. Yeah. I have to know in and some of his visits or at least two of them, after he had left, there was some uh fight going on because of the use of the word Portuguese. Uh people returned to the Portuguese kids and teeth tease them because almost every joke that said as a Portuguese joke is the denigrating the Portuguese people.
[0:50:31] Frank DeLima: Clarence, I I know who you are, Clarence. I know you do, and Frank knows And I just want to let you know that I do not tell one Portuguese joke in schools. Okay? Hey, Clarence. Clarence. Clarence. Clarence, stop talking so you can hear what Frank just said in response. I in the elementary schools, I did not use one Portuguese joke. Well, I was at I90 school once and I heard you. I90 Elementary? Yes. There is no Portuguese joke. Clarence, thank you for your call. Thank you. Um is that political correctness, or is that just somebody who's particularly sensitive? They make up stories. Oh to get their point across.
[0:51:06] Speaker 2: Okay. Well, that's a clear answer. Uh Carol from Kani Ohe. Good morning, Carol.
[0:51:11] Caller: Good morning. Uh one comment, well actually two. It it suddenly occurred to me as I was listening to people call in. We callers are all so alliterative with our names and where we come from, I think we must make them up. Now, my comment is this, I think that what I enjoy about both Frank and Corky is that they help us laugh at ourselves, not at each other. And in so far as you might have somebody from one ethnic group here who can laugh at a cartoon or a joke about another ethnic group, I think that just all goes to show that people who live here, who feel like they belong here, that all ethnic groups are part of all of us.
[0:51:51] Speaker 2: Mhm. That's I think that's very well said. Very well said. Thank you, Carol. Thank you. Um our next caller is Jim from Mililani. Good morning, Jim.
[0:51:59] Caller: Good morning. Jim, you should be uh Martin from Mililani. If we're looking for a literary Well, I'm sorry. I'm not literate You probably didn't even make up your name but go ahead Jim. What do you have? No, that's my real name, and I'm getting ready to jump in the pool and swim two miles. All right. Good. I am a social studies teacher at I High School, and I use Frank's uh tape. I'm sorry without paying royalties. That's okay. Um Anything for education. As a starting point, when we talk about stereotyping, and the reactions I get from the kids uh seem to indicate that the humor may be divisive.
[0:52:38] Speaker 2: Mhm. Is that because of the setting? In other words, when I'm sitting and somebody is trying to be funny and I'm sitting there and it and it is funny, I don't try to analyze it, but if I were in the classroom and somebody said, now listen very closely to what this fellow's saying, and and is this going to make some people feel badly or whatever, then I think I would say, well, yeah, that's stereotyping. It it sounds to me Jim as though it's kind of a stacked deck. I I would predict with almost certainty that your kids would would reach that conclusion in that setting.
[0:53:07] Caller: Well, yeah, I I I I think you're um you're putting a slant on this. What I do is I start the tape without any introduction and then I um use that to generate discussion without uh you know, trying to bias the answer. Okay. What's your your your points, you know, Well, there's there's a very thin line between using stereotypes to go at a certain humor and using stereotypes for stereotyping.
[0:53:37] Corky Trinidad: I think, and uh uh there are many times when there's some in some cases, I disagree with uh Frank in the use of stereotypes, but but then they are visual, uh uh I wouldn't say cartoonists, but they are visual humorists, which probably need a lot of visual stereotyping because they're in front of people. I cannot use the the uh criteria that cartoonist does because we you know, we we are not visually in front. In Frank's case, for example, uh let's say when he does uh Imelda Marcos, for example, Oh, yeah, that that that Uh so funny. Imelda Mark to to tell people that Imelda Mark is a Filipino, for example. He has to make Imelda Marcos speak in this stereotypic funny accent. Exactly, exaggerated. To me, that's stereotyping because Imelda Marcos doesn't speak that way. Right. Yeah, he she has good Oh yeah. diction. But it makes it funny. But it makes it funny. But then you see, that stereotyping Filipino with the accent, see, that to me, that's stereotyping. But but there is a a risk here, in other words the what I'm saying is that without the accent Right. It loses his Imelda Marcos is still funny, Oh, I see, because of the of the hair, because of the dark glasses and because of what she says. But if you still use the accent to show people that she is Filipino, that is stereotyping. Mhm. I see. You see, that's humor by stereotyping. But I have to disagree because um you may not hear the accent Oh, well all is disagree on this subject matter. You may not hear the accent, but I do. Just like when I went to the mainland and the guys were saying I have an accent. Now, I have an accent. That's for sure. And she has one, too. But she certainly doesn't have that uh Lucano accent. First, she's not Ilokano, yeah? She called me She called me Prank. Yeah. Well, you know, I think what I'm what I'm hearing from Jim is that that there is a risk here that on the one hand, we see ethnic humor in Hawaii, especially because of our plantation history as being a glue that can keep us together, that they can help us to get along. But there are risks that it it it can make some people feel like they're Yeah, because Yeah. But at the same time, there are many stereotypes here that are not. Okay. Jim, you get to make one more comment, then we move on. Uh yeah. I was a holy boy from Berkeley and I get teased by my Samoan students all the time. Uh is there a uh fax number or an internet address, uh whereby I could invite uh Mr. Trinidad or Mr. uh De Lima to my class? Yes. Uh let's call Joanne Swaringen at the uh DOE, At the DOE. at the DOE. Okay. Okay, thank you. And should and and Corky at the At the Star Bulletin, 525-8657. In the best time to catch Corky's about 4:00. 4:00 in the morning. Corky works early. That's when I wake up to go run. I I set the alarm just to call Corky so I can catch him in the office. Uh our next caller. Thank you, Jim. Our next caller is Linda from Lanikai. Good morning, Linda. Good morning. Um can you hear me? I sure can. You're on the air. Okay, I feel like this is a love in for um Corky and Frank, and maybe I'm going to be coming across a
[0:57:00] Speaker 1: with some dissenting
[0:57:02] Speaker 2: Oh, I think their feet have been held to the fire, Linda. I have a very different impression of what's going on here.
[0:57:06] Speaker 1: Okay, well it seems like a lot of it is a love in. Well, Kevorkian is absolutely a genius, and I I just have unqualified um um feelings about positive feelings for Kevorkian. I just
[0:57:19] Speaker 2: Linda, let me let me see if Kevorkian agrees with that first before we go. I'm just checking to see the not my wife calling.
[0:57:27] Speaker 1: Go ahead, Linda. Yeah, okay. I I could easily join in a a love in for Kevorkian, but I I think he's he's brilliant and uh a fantastic um uh world stature. Um
[0:57:39] Speaker 2: I and I feel the same way about Frank, but but you don't. So go ahead.
[0:57:41] Speaker 1: Yeah, Frank I Frank, I have such mixed feelings about you and I I have longed for a long time to tell you about my feelings about you.
[0:57:49] Speaker 2: Linda, you're you're going to
[0:57:50] Speaker 1: Linda, you're going to have to make this quick, though, because we're running out of time. Okay. Quickly. I feel that um um um now, I have to tell you that it's been a long time since I've seen you. We went to a show in Waikiki where you performed and I thought that was there was um the humor, you know, you when you'd have ethnic humor, you you're um somehow you you're supposed to laugh because if you don't laugh, then you're a poor sport or you can't take it or you know, and uh but I felt that
[0:58:17] Speaker 2: in the show.
[0:58:18] Speaker 1: Uh, I think it was the Noodle Shop. I think Yeah, okay.
[0:58:22] Speaker 2: Well, any comedian, but I tell you, laugh or you're a poor sport. I mean, because, you know, people are paying money and and if you don't laugh, then hey, come on, why are you there?
[0:58:30] Speaker 1: Well, well, okay, this is what happened, and then uh at um so I saw you a long time ago at City Hall, and you were basically doing at that time um bathroom what I call bathroom humor.
[0:58:43] Speaker 2: The fart jokes?
[0:58:44] Speaker 1: Um the I'm sorry. And and then you um uh that's local humor.
[0:58:48] Speaker 2: Where are you from?
[0:58:49] Speaker 1: Don't get me wrong. I think you're terribly talented and you don't have to reduce yourself. You're very very very talented and you do so much that's really good.
[0:58:57] Speaker 2: I started out with the with the fart jokes, I did.
[0:59:00] Speaker 1: Linda, I am curious. Frank asked and I'm curious, where are you from? I'm from Lanikai. I'm from from Kauai.
[0:59:07] Speaker 2: Okay. Portuguese? I'm from from Kauai. I'm um and pretty old, too. But um you know, I I hear, personal I love is Melveen Leed. So uh Melveen Leed can make jokes and uh can pick out a Japanese tourist and it's done in such a wonderful spirit that everybody laughs, you know, with with everybody. You know? It's all about part of who you like and who you don't. Because I heard some people that don't like her very much. Frank, Frank, I want you to listen to this because I think you do
[0:59:37] Speaker 1: Linda, you got to make it very quickly, because we got people waiting. Yeah, I'm hoping your new show, and I'm hearing for the first time about your work in the schools and I if if that is so, I'm really pleased because I think that some of it can be hurtful. And I remember feeling sorry for the person who was sitting in the front row at the show that we attended, because that's all that you picked on on that person a little bit too much. Okay. Linda, we have to move on.
[0:59:57] Speaker 2: You've made your point. Very well. Thank you very much.
[1:00:00] Speaker 1: Okay, thank you for getting me off. Bye bye.
[1:00:02] Speaker 2: Okay. Very quickly, we're going to try and get to all our callers in the last couple of minutes. So if you could try to make it short, we'd appreciate it. Steve on Maui, good morning.
[1:00:10] Speaker 1: Steve, are you still there? Okay, we're going to move to Brett in Honolulu. Oh, here I am. Oh, Steve, we found you. Yeah. Real quickly, what do you have for us?
[1:00:19] Speaker 2: Okay, uh what is the essential basis for humor? You know, what makes us laugh? It's not just ethnic. Let's get a little more basic here.
[1:00:27] Speaker 1: Well, um No, I I feel that uh first of all, education, how much do you know? Secondly, how much do you know about yourself? Thirdly, can you laugh at yourself?
[1:01:09] Speaker 2: And basically the foundation of humor is tragedy. You know, all everything is tragic.
[1:01:14] Speaker 1: And uh the basis for humor I think is a treatment of something of tragic Okay. in a way that it's a it's brings us brings it back.
[1:01:29] Speaker 2: Steve, thank you. We're just have a few seconds left. Brett in Honolulu, very quickly. What do you have for us?
[1:01:34] Speaker 1: Well, I just wanted to say um, thanks to both of you gentlemen. I mean, you make my life a lot more pleasurable living in Hawaii. And uh, um, you know, everyone's got different different funny bones and um um, you know, And they and they've touched yours.
[1:01:50] Speaker 2: Okay, Brett, thank you. We got one more caller. We're going to try to get to. Uh, I think it's Makia in uh Moiliili. Good morning.
[1:01:57] Speaker 1: Yes, Aloha. I just wanted to share in terms of the reaction from people when what you're sharing is very funny. Uh I'm a storyteller. So I was sharing sharing incidents growing up as a kid and the reaction was, for example, You've you've just got 10 seconds. Okay. Well, the reaction was very opposite from what it usually happens in terms of the kid's response was boy, they don't respect us Chinese.
[1:02:29] Speaker 2: Well, that's it. Thank you. We got a couple seconds. anything to say to sum it up? 5 seconds. just light enough. Light enough. Okay, Frank. Light enough. I want to thank my guests, Frank De Lima, whose show can be caught down in Waikiki. And I'll keep jussing in it jussing at the girl cuz it's funny.
[1:02:48] Speaker 1: Read read Frank's piece in this morning's paper. It really is good. Corky, Frank, thank you very, very much. Our producer is Suzy Roth. Our assistant producers are Cassie Roth and Aaliyah Yap. Technical director this morning was Philip Hutchinson. We've had help in a variety of ways from Craig Da Silva and Bruce Voss. The next three weeks we're going to be talking about sovereignty. We're going to have passionate proponents, open minded supporters, knowledgeable critics, concerned skeptics. We're going to have all the voices that you need to hear. This is Pop Radio. Aloha. understand it is basically available to people who are who are terminally ill, which is typically defined as as someone who has given less than six months to live.
[1:06:16] Speaker 2: SY, That is correct. Mhm.
[1:06:18] Speaker 1: Okay. So both of you like the fact that we have um more and more interest in in hospices and more and more hospice opportunities for people who are terminally ill. What about living wills? SY, can you give us a brief explanation of what it is, where you stand and then we'll see if Norm's in agreement.
[1:06:33] Speaker 2: Right. In 86, 1986, Hawaii enacted its first law on living wills. This is basically a legal mechanism where an ordinary person, while able and alive and well, can put in writing his or her wishes about what they may not want when they are terminally ill.
[1:07:00] Speaker 1: So so they could actually say don't give me nourishment, don't give me hydration, which which we know will eventually result in that person's death and the physician has to honor that.
[1:07:08] Speaker 2: And the doctor has to honor them and they can decide to forgo all forms of medical treatments including artificial fluids and nutrition. And this was written into our our law in 1991. You don't have to be terminally ill now. All you have to be is to be irreversibly comatose unconscious um with no permanently, so with no hope of recovery. And the legal language is where you're unable to communicate meaningfully about medical decision making.
[1:07:32] Speaker 1: Are you a supporter of living wills?
[1:07:35] Speaker 2: Very much so. A staunch supporter of living wills. And it is a very powerful argument why we should hold the line just at this point and not just go down the road the slippery slope further. What I mean here is, uh, we have living wills, we have a legal mechanism and yet only a small minority of the population has living wills. When we looked at hospital admissions over the past one year at a major hospital in town, only 8% of the patients had living wills.
[1:07:58] Speaker 1: Okay. And and so I have the terminology straight. As I understand it, when we talk about a living will that gives instructions to uh to not provide hydration and nourishment at a certain point in time, knowing that that will cause death, that that's a form of what some people call passive euthanasia.
[1:08:14] Speaker 2: Passive euthanasia is one phrase used to describe this.
[1:08:16] Speaker 1: Okay. And so when it comes to passive euthanasia and and living wills, you are a staunch supporter.
[1:08:21] Speaker 2: That's correct.
[1:08:22] Speaker 1: Norm?
[1:08:23] Speaker 2: I am without also. I go a step further. at some patients do need more active support, not necessarily Kavorkians type support putting a bag over the face or you know, aggressive things like that. But the patient could be given the opportunity to do this themselves. I I have to give you a personal interjection at this point. For about 20 years, I carried a card in my wallet that said under any circumstances, keep me alive. Whatever you have to do, my physician, you keep me alive. And this was 20 for 20 years. About eight or 10 years ago, I took that out of my wallet and I now have a living will and I don't want to be kept alive because I realized what's going to happen to my family, my loved ones left over. Death should be remembered by the family as a pleasant situation. And a living will situation, uh the agreement we have, the legal thing we have now is why is great. I just wish more people had it.
[1:09:13] Speaker 1: Okay. Now, so far, the two of you have have agreed basically on on everything we've talked about, but the name Kavorkian was just raised and this is the fellow that some people call Doctor Death. Uh Norm, can you describe just a real quickly what Doctor Kavorkian has been doing and what your opinion is on those actions.
[1:09:31] Speaker 2: Dr. Kavorkian has been uh assisting physically, actively assisting people to end their lives either with injections uh with various medications, massive medications, where they are terminal. Uh there was one recent case where it may not have been terminal but in most cases these people