Talking Story with Two Bishop Estate Trustees
Price of Paradise · Hawaii Public Radio · aired 1995-05-21
Guests: Richard "Dickie" Wong (former President of the State Senate; Bishop Estate trustee); Gerry Jervis (lawyer; Bishop Estate trustee)
Duration: 0:56:06

[00:00:00] Randall Roth: we can't hear the radio show through our headphones. We're broadcast live each Sunday morning from 8 to 9 on KHPR 88.1 FM and KKUA 90.7 FM. And then rebroadcast from 8 to 9 Sunday evenings on KIFO, that's 1380 AM. Once our guests have been introduced and have had a chance to say a few things, we take calls from listeners.
[00:00:20] Randall Roth: If you've never called before, you may be surprised to hear just how simple it is. We answer every call, tell each caller what to expect and then put the line on hold. The show can be heard over the phone while you're on hold, so callers don't miss anything. I take calls in the order received, and all I ask is that comments be kept reasonably short and friendly.
[00:00:39] Randall Roth: One of our goals in this program is to illustrate how controversial matters can be discussed and even debated in a constructive manner. Today's topic is the Bishop Estate, an organization that inspires strong feelings. With me in the studio are two of its five trustees, Jerry Jervis and Richard Dickey Wong.
[00:00:56] Randall Roth: Jerry Jervis graduated from Damien High School and has a law degree from the University of Hawaii. He's a senior partner in the law firm of Jervis, Wyner, and Meheula. He's a real estate developer and the newest of the five Bishop Estate trustees. Richard Dickey Wong is a graduate of Marinol High School, has a degree in social work from the University of Hawaii. For a number of years was a business agent for the United Public Workers Union.
[00:01:19] Randall Roth: In 1965 was first elected to the state legislature, initially in the House of Representatives, later in the Senate, and for 14 years was president of the State Senate. He also for 12 years owned his own real estate company. Jerry, Dickey, good morning and welcome to the Price of Paradise Radio Show. Good morning. Good morning.
[00:01:36] Randall Roth: Well, the big question that I have is is why now? Uh, we've uh been talking to Alisa there at the Bishop Estate for a while and trying to get you to come on as as guests. And all of a sudden we hit the jackpot, you're here, and I'm curious if there's any particular reason why you chose now to come onto our show. Dickey, any thoughts?
[00:01:53] Richard "Dickie" Wong: Well, I I think the the real reason is to begin to tell the Kamehameha school Bishop Estate story and uh I think up until this year or a year before this, there was some doubt as to whether to go out and talk because our experience has been with the media has been really uh not that good. Uh, we've tried to present our side of the story and I think it's uh trustees felt that we weren't getting our message across and uh perhaps this is this is the means by doing it, to tell people who we are, what we do, and how we affect this community.
[00:02:23] Randall Roth: Why do you suppose your your relationship or or treatment by the media hasn't been what you would hope?
[00:02:29] Gerry Jervis: Well, I think there're probably a number of variables involved. Uh, first of all, you know, whatever you're big and you have a high profile, you make good news and I think stories uh affecting an estate like the Bishop estate, sell newspapers for instance. The other thing is you know, we're we're breaking new ground if you will. We're a charitable trust, uh going into areas that that's never been seen before in Hawaii.
[00:02:51] Gerry Jervis: The Bishop Estate is in a in a period of transition now, moving into various kinds of diversified investments in our portfolio. This is new for for people and new for the community and I think it, uh, it generates questions and I think that's understandable.
[00:03:05] Randall Roth: Okay, well we're sure delighted to have you here. I certainly don't mean to uh question that. Um, in this morning's advertiser, there are a couple of things about the Bishop estate, in fact they're they're almost always things about the Bishop Estate in the newspapers. Uh, one thing is a piece that uh that the trustees wrote and it's in the focus section and it I think does a real good job of laying out just what the uh philosophy of the Bishop Estate is and and where you feel you're headed.
[00:03:29] Randall Roth: Something else that's in the paper is that there's evidently a a new partnership or joint venture of sorts between the Bishop Estate and the Department of Hawaiian Homelands. Uh, Jerry, could you tell us just a little bit about that?
[00:03:38] Gerry Jervis: Sure. We're very excited about that. You know, we have two Hawaiian organizations working toward a common goal or a common effort if you will. The Department of Hawaiian Homelands has a homestead project out in Lualualei and Nanakuli, with uh 272 new homes slated to be constructed. They're under construction right now. There's a 1.3 acre parcel that's been set aside and we're working with DHHL. The uh Kamehameha schools Bishop Estate is going to be putting in the the first preschool that we've ever constructed exclusively for preschool purposes and what I mean by that is we have other preschools that we have leased space from various churches or schools in the in the different communities. And we're slated to break ground in September of this year, and it's a very exciting project and the the community out there excited and and so are we.
[00:04:24] Randall Roth: Now with Hawaiian Homelands there's a 50% blood quantum requirement. Will that be the case with this preschool?
[00:04:31] Gerry Jervis: Well, certainly not, not for the preschool, but what we are doing in this joint arrangement or this joint effort with the Department of Hawaiian Homelands is we're going to be giving preference to the children coming out of the Princess Kealoha Hawaiian Homestead project. In other words, we'll allow them to apply first and if there are any slots remaining after the Princess Kealoha children have applied, then we'll open it up to the larger Hawaiian community. But there is going to be a requirement that you have to be Hawaiian to enter that preschool.
[00:04:56] Randall Roth: I see. Uh, Dickey, also in the news recently, you've announced that there are going to be four other new schools sometime over the next 10 years or so. Uh, could you tell us a little bit about those?
[00:05:07] Richard "Dickie" Wong: Yeah, well, it that's very exciting uh exciting uh event taking place at the school. As Jerry mentioned, there are many changes and and one of it is very simply, is is it took about two years to develop and it probably took a generation to bring it to this point. I must say at this juncture that what has allowed us to do this is the investment policies of the former trustees that have brought us to this. And we really have a have a a pact with future generations. And we're merely carrying this out and hopefully that as we go up the road, there will be hopefully other plans for expansion. And basically, uh, it's putting an emphasis on our preschool.
[00:05:44] Richard "Dickie" Wong: And uh where we now have about 560 students in the next 10 years, hopefully we will be up to 1800. And we will have four schools and two will be on the Big Island, one will be on Maui, and the other one here on Oahu.
[00:05:56] Randall Roth: Um, you mentioned investment practices and I think a lot of our listeners are familiar with the fact that the Wall Street Journal recently ran a long article about the Bishop Estate and I believe it was um uh reprinted by both the advertiser and and the Star bulletin. And in that article, um, I don't know if you'd call it a left-handed compliment or or just what it was. Uh on the one hand, they were suggesting that uh it's increasingly difficult for you folks to to sell yourselves as a charity. Um, on the other hand, they seemed to be saying that because you had uh been doing some things financially that were more lucrative and more profit seeking than what they're used to seeing with charities.
[00:06:31] Randall Roth: How did the five trustees react to to that article?
[00:06:34] Richard "Dickie" Wong: Well, I I think we had had mixed reviews about the article but certainly as as Jerry pointed out, I think because of our size and because we are are getting better known in the financial community, uh, the more attention is is is paid to us.
[00:06:47] Randall Roth: Okay, Jerry?
[00:06:48] Gerry Jervis: Personally I was I was pleased with the article that I think the tenor of the article showed that the uh the trustees are astute businessmen. Um, please excuse the expression Localani if you're out there listening. Uh, and that uh, you know, we're taking advantage of the various tax rulings to do the best possible job we can for the Hawaiian children and I think the article shows that this is not just a passive uh enterprise where um, you know, we're allowing the market to drive us. I mean we're in there, we're very active and we're looking for opportunities.
[00:07:15] Randall Roth: Okay. Uh, in case you joined us late, you're listening to the Price of Paradise Radio Show. I'm Randy Roth. The topic today is the Bishop Estate. Uh it's been described as the richest charity in the world. My guests are two of the five trustees, Jerry Jervis, who is a a lawyer with Jervis, Wyner, Meheula and Dickey Wong, who was a member of the state legislature for many many years.
[00:07:35] Randall Roth: If you're listening to our Sunday morning live broadcast from 8 to 9, why we would like to hear from you. If you have a question or a brief comment, all you have to do is to call us at 955-8821 and neighbor islanders are always invited to call collect. The number again, 955-8821.
[00:07:54] Randall Roth: Uh, Dickey, could you tell us a little bit more about your investment policies? I know in this morning's piece that you wrote for the advertiser, you emphasized that uh land was very important to the estate and that that would always be the the core asset of the estate and yet, um, we read a lot about investments on the mainland, some in land, some in um, Goldman Sachs and and other investments. Uh could you elaborate a bit more on your investment policies?
[00:08:19] Richard "Dickie" Wong: Well, I I I think very basically, we have to take the total portfolio and it it's difficult just to single out certain uh investment uh strategies that uh the estate has developed. But you know, when you come down to it to someone who is independent and has to evaluate uh the portfolio, I think there's nobody more qualified than Standard and Poor's and Moody's. They don't really care who you are. What they're interested in is can you pay your bills? And they've given us probably the highest ratings uh of any institution, at least here in Hawaii, bigger than that of the banks in terms of Standard and Poor's rating of A plus one and uh Moody's with a P1. And I I think that says a lot about the solidness of the estate and where where our position is in the investment community.
[00:09:02] Randall Roth: Okay, Jerry, any thoughts on that?
[00:09:03] Gerry Jervis: Well, I think the overall investment uh posture has to be one of diversification. I think that's important. One has to be uh prepared for uh the various ups and downs in the market as we go forward. Um, I think strategic placement is very important. We're essentially a a real estate or land-based trust, but you know, the the diversification aspect is very important. And whenever you look at a portfolio, as Dickey pointed out, you have to look at the overall impact of the portfolio. You're going to have some investments that are a little more high risk and some are uh a little more conservative. Uh but the thing to remember about Kamehameha schools Bishop Estate is that we're in the investments for the long term because we're a perpetual trust. You know, we have patient money often times, and so we can enter into those kinds of investments that allow the the return in the long run.
[00:10:04] Randall Roth: Um, one that's been written up uh fairly recently in the local press is this McKenzie methane. Uh is that simply one of the investments that didn't work out very well and and um, what was your reaction to the newspaper discussion of of the so-called conflict of interest, Dickey?
[00:10:18] Richard "Dickie" Wong: Well, first of all, uh, the trustees uh feel that the investment was a prudent one and uh we still say that given its opportunity, that it'll work out. There were some legal problems, first of all, I have to restrict my comments because it is on the litigation. But I think most importantly uh that the trustees found that uh the investments were fine and the issues that accompanied it in terms of the conflicts of interest, the the trustees have have have determined that that it it it was proper.
[00:10:48] Randall Roth: Okay, Jerry?
[00:10:48] Gerry Jervis: Well, I guess the the lawyer in me wants to say that the uh you know, the jury is still out on this one. And I think it's I think it's um um a matter of uh of projecting exactly where this investment is going to come down. I mean it's it's very dangerous at this point when something is in litigation to say this is a successful or an unsuccessful investment. It's too early in the game and as far as we're concerned, um this investment is on a success track. Uh any uh questions with respect to um conflicts of interest or potential conflicts of interest were checked out by independent counsel and we had an independent opinion on that uh on that point. And uh you know we're working very hard with this investment and other investments to get the best possible result.
[00:11:29] Randall Roth: On conflicts of interest often times the perception is is as important as as the reality based on all the press that that that generated, um have you talked at all about whether or not in the future, trustees should be personally investing in in investments that the estate itself is invested in, Dickey?
[00:11:45] Richard "Dickie" Wong: Well, I I I think the policy of the current board is is very clear that going forward and and whatever and that it's not uh saying that the investments were improper, they were not, but going forward is that uh employees will not be allowed to participate in in anything that the KSB is involved in.
[00:12:01] Randall Roth: So that issue just won't come up again?
[00:12:03] Richard "Dickie" Wong: Well, for that very reason because the appearance sometimes is is just as important as a de facto conflict. And although we don't believe and and we strongly believe that there was no conflict, for appearance purposes and so that we can get on with the business of the estate and focus our energies on positive things, you know, the current uh position of the board is the uh no investment alongside of the estate.
[00:12:22] Randall Roth: Okay. Well as regular listeners to this show know, we we try to spend uh 15 minutes or so letting our guests uh say a few things about what's on their minds and then open it up for callers. And uh for the rest of the show, I'd really like to highlight the questions and uh and comments of our callers. Let's start with Marie from Honolulu. Good morning, Marie.
[00:12:43] Marie: I will ask this question of either Jerry or Dickey. Okay. I know that being appointed to being a trustee is a very desirable position. It's common knowledge. My question may be very naive. I understand I think this correct that each trustee receives a six figure salary. Is that correct? Yes. And I'm wondering if I don't know, if I had a six figure salary, I don't know what I would do with all that money. And it's supposed to be uh for the Hawaiian children. Couldn't that be, yes? No, I'm sorry. You you finish. Go ahead.
[00:13:13] Marie: I couldn't that be better used uh for the Hawaiian children and and couldn't you live on like 50,000 a year or something?
[00:13:21] Randall Roth: Um, Dickey, I I I could have bet you a lot of money that the first question we would get would be about compensation. That's something that's something else that's been in the news lately and what Marie is saying I think is something that a lot of people have said. What's what's your reaction to that?
[00:13:34] Richard "Dickie" Wong: Absolutely uh in my comment about six figures, that's what the trustees receive.
[00:13:38] Randall Roth: It's it's almost seven figures. It's seven figures and uh $1.3 million of our last year's salary was was waived.
[00:13:46] Richard "Dickie" Wong: And much much more important, about uh whether it's the cost of living, can you live with the amount? Of course you can. Anybody can, but what I'd like to say is that uh our salaries are based on, yeah, it's a commission and it's not pay. And if we earn it, uh we deserve it. That's the way uh I feel about it personally. But I think most most importantly, uh I think the salary itself has always been a thorn in the side of the trustees in terms of public perception. And uh like I said, it is a commission first of all. And first of all, it's based purely on performance. And it's performance related and that's very important.
[00:14:22] Randall Roth: Okay, Jerry, what do you have to say about Marie's question?
[00:14:25] Gerry Jervis: Well Marie, since you addressed the question to both of us, I have I have a couple of things to say. First of all, I want you to know that a six or seven figure salary is not foreign to me. It's something that, you know, I've earned in the past and that's kind of reflective of, in my mind, of, you know, what I personally can do. So when I got this position and I got this salary, I didn't feel like this was pie in the sky if you will. But with respect to your question about more money for the Hawaiian children, certainly anything we can do to enhance the the educational opportunities of the Hawaiian children, we want to do. But I think we need to look at this trust in context of its perpetual nature. And what I mean by that is this is a a trust that's going to be in existence forever. What we do today as trustees with respect to compensation is going to affect future trustees.
[00:15:09] Gerry Jervis: When the public, when people like yourself, and people like in the media, uh evaluate the performance of this estate, they don't evaluate us against some standard that's less than what other people expect. In other words, we're measured by the same standards as other businesses. And so on the compensation side, I think it's only fair that we get paid like other businesses. If we perform well, we get paid well. And if we don't perform well, I wouldn't want to be a Bishop Estate trustee.
[00:15:35] Randall Roth: Okay. Marie?
[00:15:37] Marie: Oh, you mean commission is when you make investments this is your profit? It's it's profit for the uh for the estate. Absolutely right. It's performance based. So if we did poorly, Marie, we wouldn't get paid. I see. Not not to mention, you know, having to deal with uh, you know, the community. But when we do well, I think it's actually cause for celebration because that means the estate's doing well. And we're going to be able to do more for the children.
[00:15:59] Randall Roth: Marie, we appreciate your call.
[00:16:01] Marie: Thank you, both of you.
[00:16:02] Randall Roth: I've got a feeling that that topic will probably come up again. We're going to try to get to as many callers as we can. Thank you, Marie. Thank you. Our next caller is Al from Kaimuki. Good morning.
[00:16:12] Al: Hello. Good morning. Good morning. I just want to mention the fact is that the trust is a testamentary trust. And there is a law against perpetuity. In other words, it must terminate. Well, well, let's have our lawyer trustee, Jerry Jervis respond to that.
[00:16:28] Gerry Jervis: I think you uh normally you would be correct. A testamentary trust would have a uh would be subject to the rule against perpetuities. But in this case, this is a charitable trust and charitable trusts routinely go into perpetuity.
[00:16:41] Randall Roth: So the Campbell estate for example is is going to end fairly soon because it's not a charitable trust but the Bishop estate in theory can go on forever. That's right. The Campbell estate liquidates in 2007 and the Bishop estate is in perpetuity.
[00:16:53] Al: But has that has that issue been determined? Has that been Many, many times. Many, many times. It is a charitable trust. Yes, a charitable trust. And that is Yes. And uh What about the uh uh the the issue of discrimination, of uh racial discrimination? Because uh, uh I think my parents, my father had a a certificate of Hawaiian birth. He's Chinese, you see. So what the people that should be, uh, uh if if the people were at the time when the trust was created, they should be included.
[00:17:26] Randall Roth: Okay, Al, let me let me ask uh Jerry Jervis to to respond to that and and my understanding, Jerry, is that the will itself doesn't limit admission to the school to children who have Hawaiian blood, but the trustees over the years have have decided and they're given great discretion under the terms of the will and they can properly make these sorts of decisions. They've decided to to limit it to children who have some level of of Hawaiian blood. And it's my understanding that uh that federal law allows that form of discrimination because uh they're they're a native group. Um, is that how the trustees look at it or is there an angle that I'm missing here?
[00:18:02] Richard "Dickie" Wong: You've basically articulated the position. Um, you want to take these questions? I'm We've got so many callers stacked up. I'm just trying to summarize Exactly. That the will gives us a lot of discretion. There's no requirement that the children be limited to children of Hawaiian ancestry. It's a trustee policy, it's a good policy. It's one they we're going to continue to enforce, and we do have a ruling by the IRS that it's not discriminatory.
[00:18:24] Randall Roth: Right. Okay, Al. Thank you for your call. We have a caller from the Big Island, Brian. Good morning, Brian. Good morning, Brian, are you there? Brian from the Big Island calling. Brian, are you there? got uh a question for Jerry and Dick. Okay, go for it. All right. Uh I've been watching the sovereignty movement grow and gain speed for several years. And getting back to terminating the trust, um I thought that would be an excellent uh proposal for the estate simply to turn it over to the the sovereignty movement as a whole and then they would have money, land, uh schools.
[00:18:56] Randall Roth: You've got a provocative question there, let's see, Dickey Wong have you ever thought about uh
[00:19:00] Speaker 1: Turning it over to the sovereignty movement.
[00:19:01] Gerry Jervis: No. The answer is no. The reason for that is that I think part of our our goal, in terms of the whole sovereignty question, is I want everyone out there to understand that one of our purposes is education. And what we try to present are all points of view. And in that point of view, we want the people, the Hawaiian people, to make make their decisions. Now whether or not this eventually works out to where sovereignty rules the day and takes over everything they become the law of the land, then I guess I guess that would be it. But my answer to the question would be no.
[00:19:33] Speaker 1: Okay. Jerry, any thoughts on that one?
[00:19:34] Gerry Jervis: A couple of thoughts. The sovereignty movement is essentially based on a claim for seeded lands. The lands that that we enjoy at the Bishop estate are lands, they come from a different source altogether. That's the first point. The second point is, although the estate hasn't taken an official position with respect to the sovereignty movement, the estate has funded several symposiums. One recent symposium in New Haven at the University and another one here at the University of Hawaii that was held at the East-West Center. We're supportive of the educational efforts behind the sovereignty movement.
[00:20:04] Gerry Jervis: I've had this very discussion with with some uh some of the Kalahui members, for instance, Lily Kala Kameli Hiva and myself have talked about this and you know, we just differ. I think that the the estate is set up in perpetuity for a very specific purpose and that purpose is to educate the Hawaiian children and that's our intent. We're going to go forward and do that.
[00:20:22] Speaker 1: Okay.
[00:20:22] Gerry Jervis: I think you just make a very brief comment to to Brian. You know, I I was at a meeting on Monday in Maui. And most of the leaders of the sovereignty movement are graduates of Kamehameha schools. And uh if there is a contribution we've made, at least we produce some some very controversial and often times uh uh great leaders in. And we're proud of that.
[00:20:39] Speaker 1: Okay.
[00:20:40] Gerry Jervis: Brian. Yeah. Thank you for your call. Thank you.
[00:20:43] Speaker 1: Uh someone had called in and evidently didn't want to ask their question, but our producer has has written it down and I think it's related to to Dicky your last comment about some of the the the stars that have graduated from Kamehameha. The question is, what is Kamehameha Schools doing for the lower achieving student? Uh and I assume that addresses the the admissions policy of of taking kids based at least on part in part on entrance exams as opposed to just a random selection, Dicky.
[00:21:08] Richard "Dickie" Wong: I I I I think the the Kamehameha schools are are moving more toward the selective process. Uh we we had in place a lottery system. Uh we have since uh exiting from that system. But I I I think more importantly uh we're setting up the the new preschools and we think this will be the prototype where we will be reaching hopefully uh the lower achieving students at that level.
[00:21:29] Speaker 1: What what do you say to to the people who say that um that you're going to be focusing on those kids who least need extra help because they've got that that greater ability and that maybe you should be focusing a little bit more on the kids that that aren't achieving quite as well uh in school, Jerry?
[00:21:44] Gerry Jervis: Well, you know, obviously that's a policy decision that, you know, we need to address and you know, we have addressed and it is a policy of uh of the trustees to pursue Pookela which is excellence in education. Um when we receive an application from a student, our typical student that's accepted at Kamehameha, the profile is a student is Hawaiian, a student is smart and student is typically poor. So, it's not necessarily a correct assumption to say that that student would have the same kinds of opportunities. At Kamehameha schools, um the school subsidize a day student to the tune of $10,000 per student.
[00:22:18] Gerry Jervis: That's even if the student is paying full tuition, and a border is subsidized to the tune of $25,000. Our tuition runs in the neighborhood of $1,200 and most of our students are on financial aid. So we are creating opportunities. Of the last of the current graduating class for Kamehameha schools, 1995, we have 98% of our students going on to higher education to college and we are extremely proud of that fact.
[00:22:39] Speaker 1: That sounds like excellence. So we've got a bunch of callers stacked up. Let's go to uh is it Ted in Honolulu? Is Ted next?
[00:22:45] Gerry Jervis: Thank you.
[00:22:46] Speaker 1: Good morning.
[00:22:47] Ted: Uh I'd like you to uh explain your tax-free status. It would certainly do you a great public relations task on your part. You operate as an entrepreneur and as you just said, uh are measured by the standards of business, but uh with your tax-free status, it does not seem that this is a level playing field.
[00:23:06] Speaker 1: Ted, let's let's direct that to the lawyer trustee, Jerry Jervis. And Jerry, that really was kind of one of the themes of the Wall Street Journal article. I'm sure you folks have have thought a lot about that.
[00:23:14] Gerry Jervis: Sure. Uh the tax-free status is important to the estate. You know, we're tax-free on both the federal level and on the state level. But let me explain uh some of the limitations of that imposes on the estate. First of all, we are not allowed, although we are held to the same standards as other organizations and corporations from a from a performance standpoint. We are not allowed to invest in an active capacity. We have to invest in a passive capacity. That means often times we are investing with partners who are essentially running the day-to-day business decisions of the investment. That makes it difficult for us.
[00:23:46] Gerry Jervis: With respect to what we actually can do with our tax dollars, the IRS has essentially said that we have what's defined as core activities. That we're required to to operate in it. The core activities is we have to have uh a school that has our students, our curriculum, our facilities and our teachers. That makes it very difficult for us then to be out in some community uh partnership kinds of arrangements. We can only do so much of those kinds of things, so we do have some restrictions.
[00:24:12] Gerry Jervis: But I need to point out and I wouldn't be fair to myself and I don't think I'd be fair to the estate, if I didn't point out that the tax-free uh or the tax-exempt status of the estate at least on the on the state of Hawaii level, is a two-way street. Although we get a tax benefit from the state of Hawaii, we're taking 3,000 plus children out of the DOE main stream. And those children, if we were to put those kids back into the DOE mainstream tomorrow, I don't think the system would A be able to handle them and certainly B, I don't think they'd be able to get the results that we get.
[00:24:40] Speaker 1: Dicky, I notice you're nodding agreement on that.
[00:24:42] Richard "Dickie" Wong: Well, only because we go beyond the campus. I mean, uh we educate another 32,000 people statewide and in in various programs and uh I I think like like Jerry said, I mean, we are on a 501c3 just as any individual or or person or corporation wants to get a tax-exempt status. You got to meet the criteria, okay, Jerry?
[00:25:01] Gerry Jervis: And I think one last important point, we do have for-profit subsidiaries. So the KSBE does pay millions and millions and millions of dollars in taxes every year. Make no mistake about that.
[00:25:12] Ted: Ted. I think that will be kind of hard to swallow by the people of the state that pays among the highest taxes in the country. Well for any any operation as profitable as this to exist without paying the taxes we all are faced with.
[00:25:27] Gerry Jervis: Well, Ted, you know, we pay those taxes in individual capacities ourselves.
[00:25:31] Speaker 1: Okay. Ted, we we've got a whole bunch of people waiting. I certainly appreciate your call. Marsha from Kani Ohe, good morning.
[00:25:36] Marsha: Good morning.
[00:25:37] Speaker 1: What can we do for you today?
[00:25:38] Marsha: Um I'm interested in uh hearing some clarification about um the Bishop State's investments. A couple of years ago, they were heavily land-based and they've moved into a real diversified portfolio. And I I I wonder if the trustees could explain the reasons and rationale and um you know, maybe respond to how well they think they've done. Some people have said the the investments are high risk.
[00:26:01] Speaker 1: Mhm. Marsha, that's a that's a great question and and before I ask Dicky Wong to to respond to that, I just tell listeners out there that uh Dicky and and Jerry wrote a piece for the advertiser this morning. It's on page three of the focus section uh where they provide a a general response to that exact question. Uh Dicky, how about a a specific one?
[00:26:17] Richard "Dickie" Wong: Well, basically we are a land trust and we intend to stay as a land trust. Uh what we do uh with our assets are basically in real estate. Our portfolio is diverse and uh we do take risk and I think that the key to taking risk is how you manage that risk and uh beyond that, I mean, our portfolio is very diversified. We're as far as into China and far as into Europe and we're we're very uh very far flung in terms of a global uh uh organization. So, again, I want to make it very clear that we are a land trust and our lands are not for sale.
[00:26:53] Richard "Dickie" Wong: And any attempt to valuate that land uh is is just uh not acceptable to the trustees.
[00:26:59] Speaker 1: If if you're not planning to sell it, doesn't matter what it's worth.
[00:27:03] Richard "Dickie" Wong: Well, because our experience has showed us and sadly so with some of the Hawaiian trust in particular, Luna Little who took a different direction and unfortunate today they are in dire circumstances.
[00:27:13] Gerry Jervis: Well, I guess historically we're a land-based trust and our revenue stream was derived from passive lease rents. But what happened with the mandatory fee conversion when the legislature passed 5:16, we're then required to take those the proceeds of those sales and do something with it. And that was the inception of the of the big diversification in our portfolio. And that's what you're seeing today. You're seeing those monies that are coming out of forced land sales, which we disagree with, but coming out of forced land sales that we're putting into diversified investments in the portfolio.
[00:27:42] Speaker 1: Okay. Marsha, thank you for your call.
[00:27:44] Marsha: Thank you.
[00:27:45] Speaker 1: If you joined us late, this is the Price of Paradise radio show. I'm Randy Roth. Our topic today is the Bishop Estate. Uh it is funding the Kamehameha schools and as the Wall Street Journal pointed out recently, the Bishop Estate's endowment is richer than Harvard's and Yale's put together. Our guests today are two of the five trustees, Jerry Jervis and Dicky Wong. We've got a number of callers waiting, but uh anyone else out there that would like to get in line, please do so. I'm going to start moving a little bit more quickly and we plan to get to everyone by the end of our hour. Our number is 955-8821.
[00:30:04] Marsha: First, I give a bit of background. The it's it's common knowledge in based on research that the the Hawaiian people here are the ones who spent more time in in prison, who are uh the poorest, whose children uh don't in lower numbers graduate from high school and uh who have uh uh really severe economic problems in general. What is the Bishop State with all their money doing to address that? Now I know they're going to say, well, they do the school, but that that that only hits only a very small amount of people.
[00:30:35] Speaker 1: Let's see what they have to say. Dicky?
[00:30:37] Richard "Dickie" Wong: Well, I think the question comes up all the time. Our job is education. I think we are contributing to this community in terms of of educating the Hawaiians. You know, I I think one one of the things is that the social problems that are are are not uh exclusively Kamehameha schools. It it's a society problem, it's a state problem and it's also a federal problem. And I I just think to have Kamehameha school because of it its size to try and address all of the social needs, I I think it's a pretty impossible task.
[00:31:06] Richard "Dickie" Wong: I think we we're taking a portion of it and that we we feel by the will, through our beloved Princess, that what we do is to educate as many young Hawaiian people as we possibly can children.
[00:31:17] Gerry Jervis: Yeah, I agree with Dicky, and I think that there probably is is no organization out there or very few organizations out there that is more sensitive to those statistics than we are. You know, we are Hawaiian and we know where our people are and we are very aware that our people are in the prisons and in the lower end of the socioeconomic scale. We're doing what we think we can do to address those problems. There are two ways that you could essentially approach that problem. Number one is you could look for the symptoms today in society and try to address those symptoms.
[00:31:44] Gerry Jervis: We think that would be very expensive and we don't think would be very effective doing it that way. The other approach is what we're attempting to do, which is look at this as a cyclical kind of problem, something that occurs time and time again. Historic historically, the statistics would bear that out. And go to the root of the problem and the root of the problem begins in very early education. And that's where we're putting our emphasis. We are tripling our our enrollment in the preschool uh program for the Kamehameha schools Bishop Estate throughout the school, um throughout the state.
[00:32:10] Gerry Jervis: We are putting our dollars in very early education and hopefully we're going to be able to as we go forward to break this cycle and that's the approach and that's the strategy of uh the Bishop Estate.
[00:32:19] Speaker 1: Okay. Celeste, thank you for your question. We need to move on to Katherine from Oahu. Good morning, Katherine.
[00:32:24] Katherine: Hi. Good morning. Um, you know, when the media talks about school's Bishop Estate assets, they don't take into account that many of the assets are not liquid and that half of the land in Hawaii is in conservation. Not also like to make a comment that the media seems to have a personal vendetta against the Kamehameha school.
[00:32:42] Speaker 1: Okay. Well, we we appreciate your thoughts. I'll see if Dicky, do you have anything to add to that?
[00:32:46] Gerry Jervis: Yeah, I I think she she raised a very important point in terms of our real estate. You know, I I think very simply put, I think Kamehameha school's Bishop Estate is probably the largest uh private land owner, no doubt. But if you examine our assets in for instance of land, we have 167,000 acres in conservation which draws no income to the estate of which we pay taxes on. We have another 164,000 acres in agriculture, which which brings in about $4 million uh of revenue.
[00:33:11] Gerry Jervis: All totally combined, uh 98% of our assets are either in ag or conservation and only 2% of our our land holdings produced uh about 80 80 to 90% of our income.
[00:33:22] Speaker 1: Okay. Thank you, Katherine. We appreciate your thoughts. We have a caller from Hawaii Kai. Good morning, Martha.
[00:33:27] Martha: Hi. Uh thanks for taking my call. I've read and uh newspaper ads that uh that uh Bishop State is having some language lessons um on on channel uh on cable television. But I'd like to ask uh if they couldn't expand those efforts to uh children and set up some kind of a Hawaiian language uh um program where uh children in all schools who are Hawaiian have an opportunity to uh take a language in their in their school and then open this to other children uh for the fee for the cost of one feasible for the cost of their cost of providing the service.
[00:34:06] Martha: It seems as though uh since the language is a a um a major element in sovereignty, that and also in culture and in aloha, that this would be a practical thing to do to build for the future.
[00:34:17] Speaker 1: Okay, let's see what uh Jerry Jervis has to say about that, Martha.
[00:34:20] Gerry Jervis: Well, we certainly agree that language is the base the basis of understanding, you know, any particular culture and we're very, very supportive of of the Hawaiian language efforts. The program you referred to is the Kula Evi program, and you know, one of the purposes for it being on public television is so that we can get that uh message and those lessons out to as many people as possible. With respect to your particular suggestion, uh you know, it sounds like a good suggestion, but I I need to tell you that making a programmatic decision in our organization is sometimes a sophisticated and complex process.
[00:34:49] Gerry Jervis: What I would suggest you do is if you wanted to contact me or one of the other trustees, uh sometime next week and uh you could, you know, we're listed in the phone book. Uh I'd be happy to listen to your your proposal in in more detail and get it to the people who put those uh proposals together and bring it before the board of trustees.
[00:35:05] Speaker 1: Martha, that sounds to me like one heck of an offer.
[00:35:07] Gerry Jervis: Martha, just just just very quickly, if you take that suggestion to the DOE because I think the DOE has a responsibility also to teach the language and Hawaiian is certainly uh very, very close uh to Hawaii. But in particular uh in the present and emergent programs, Kamehameha plays a very uh large role by providing materials for the various emergent programs throughout the state and uh it's moving along and we like to see it encouraged.
[00:35:31] Speaker 1: Okay. Thank you, Martha. We appreciate your call. Our next caller is Barbara from Honolulu. Good morning, Barbara.
[00:35:36] Barbara: Oh, good morning. Uh very little public awareness um there's been very little public awareness uh that with the establishment of the satellite schools, the trustees are also eliminating outreach programs that service as Trustee Wong said, 32,000 um Hawaiians. Uh the trustees have said that this is a change in philosophy rather than a lack of finances. I'd like to know why not maintain outreach programs in Hawaiian areas where the satellite schools will not be located, since the IRS has given you a certain amount of leeway to maintain these types of programs. Otherwise, you're going to have a net loss in number of Hawaiians educated by Kamehameha.
[00:36:08] Speaker 1: Uh good question, Jerry.
[00:36:09] Gerry Jervis: I guess. First of all, I think your assumption is not correct. We're not uh eliminating all of the outreach programs. You know, what we have done and what we are continuing to do is we're looking at the best expenditure for our dollar, where we get the most punch for the dollar expended. And we have found that the best possible results that we get is when we teach our students in our classes, with our teachers and our curriculum.
[00:36:30] Gerry Jervis: Now that's not to say that we're not going to continue some of the outreach programs, but what we're going to do, like any other business that's worth its salt, is we're going to continue to reevaluate our position. We're going to make sure that the dollar that we spend is spent in the best possible way to service the Hawaiian community.
[00:36:44] Speaker 1: You know, Jerry, when I read uh your piece in the the advertiser this morning, that caught my eye, I think more than anything. And when you say that you have this strong belief in in Kamehameha school's classrooms and teachers and curriculum, uh was that in a way saying that you're less inclined to engage in partnerships with the DOE in the future than you've been in the past, or or did I read more into that than you intended to communicate, Jerry?
[00:37:07] Gerry Jervis: I I think that maybe that's a negative way of of putting uh of asking a positive question. Okay. Right. Um I think the the way I would put it is I would say rather than being less inclined to enter into partnerships, I think we're more inclined to do what we do best and what our studies and and our investigation shows the most effective way to spend our dollars.
[00:37:25] Richard "Dickie" Wong: And that that that way is just to reiterate what uh Jerry said was that basically, in our evaluation, we found that when we have our own students and our own curriculum and our own facilities, we get better results. And uh that that's where we're at.
[00:37:39] Speaker 1: You're after results.
[00:37:40] Gerry Jervis: Absolutely.
[00:37:41] Speaker 1: Okay. Uh thank you, Barbara.
[00:37:42] Barbara: Okay, thank you.
[00:37:43] Speaker 1: Our next caller, uh Bill from Palolo. Good morning, Bill.
[00:37:46] Bill: Good morning. Good morning.
[00:37:49] Speaker 1: Is this about water?
[00:37:49] Bill: No, it isn't.
[00:37:51] Speaker 1: I just have to kid you, Bill, because I know that's a topic near and dear to you. What do you have for us today?
[00:37:56] Bill: Well, I can say that uh to Dicky that uh the legislature is doing. Best to keep our tooth and drinking water bills still killed. The question, the question is uh back to the wage thing, uh this 1.3 million dollars that was waved uh in your salaries. Um, couldn't that be classified as a charity donation to the school? And then uh the the burning question is, how much of that 900,000 dollars plus uh wages that you guys receive each year? How much is actually paid uh in taxes? Is it tax-free?
[00:38:32] Richard "Dickie" Wong: Well, and we want to see your tax return too, Bill. No, I'm kidding. Um, let let me ask uh Dickie, as I understand it, um, what we're talking about here is that by state statute, there's there's a maximum set in terms of how much you folks can be paid in the way of of compensation. And that this last year, and this was just reported in the last week or so, uh you waved 1.3 of what could have legally been paid according to that state statute and and that left $920,000. So according to the formula, each of you could have been paid over $2 million. You waved 1.3, you ended up with $920,000. Obviously, the 920,000 you're taxed on. The 1.3, you didn't get, you're not taxed on. And I understand there's a a ruling uh uh on on point with that.
[00:39:21] Gerry Jervis: At any rate, could you could you talk a little bit about how you go about deciding how much to wave and um, you know, whether the basic thing is, well let's figure out how much the net amount should be, what's reasonable, or whether there's some other way of figuring out how to arrive at that number.
[00:39:36] Richard "Dickie" Wong: Well, the the trustees before I came decided they made a major decision as far as I'm concerned. They deserved the money, they should have kept the money, but they made a decision not to accept the uh the returns the receipts from the sale of condominiums and uh residential leases.
[00:40:05] Gerry Jervis: Sure. Um, the because we're a charitable trust, we're allowed 2% of the gross revenues as compensation incidentally, Bill, it's not uh wages are not salary. And the point there is is is not just a technical point, but it the commission that we receive is performance-based. So you know, like anybody else, you know, if you do something, then you get a percentage of what you do. So it's not just a a paycheck that we get that's reflective of wages or or salaries.
[00:40:30] Richard "Dickie" Wong: We get a the trustees get 2% of the gross revenues, and then we essentially waive 1% of that. Then we take that 1% and we split it among the five trustees and then each of the five trustees pay individual income tax on that on on on his or her share of of what's left.
[00:40:46] Bill: A question again is that 920 tax-free?
[00:40:50] Gerry Jervis: No, absolutely not.
[00:40:51] Bill: It's not. Thank you, Bill. Um, we've got a number of people uh waiting to to ask a question or make a comment. Let's go to Steve from Waikiki. Good morning, Steve. Good morning. I first of all, want to compliment the trustees on their their thrust to to emphasize early childhood because I do think that's an extremely important area. However, uh looking at the other end of the spectrum, clean at the other end of the spectrum, that is post-secondary, with as was pointed out in the articles, a an endowment that is greater than Harvard and Yale put together. Has the Bishop Estate considered going into tertiary education? In other words, perhaps a private college.
[00:41:46] Richard "Dickie" Wong: Well, I I think very simply put, uh the trustees have made a change in direction in this sense that we have decided to open up center-based preschools, and that's where our emphasis is uh talking about as far as uh post-education uh graduate. Yeah, we're not even there. We're just trying to lay down the base so that we can take our services, expand our services through all the neighbor islands, as you know, our our campus, our main campus here is at at Kapalama, and uh that's where our high school graduates come from. And as Jerry mentioned, uh which we're very proud of uh as we sit here, is that this graduating class of 1995 our graduation ratio is 98% cent of our students of this graduating class are going on to higher education. And I don't know anybody else who has that kind of statistics here in Hawaii.
[00:42:32] Gerry Jervis: Well, the other point, Steve, is that we do have a post-high school scholarship program. We put millions and millions of dollars into that every year. And those funds service not only the graduates of Kamehameha schools, but also Hawaiian uh children graduating from other schools. And you know, it's our intent as we go forward to try to build on that fund and to try to see if we can uh service even more Hawaiian graduates.
[00:42:53] Bill: Thank you, Steve. Appreciate your call. Our next call is from Mililani. Catherine. Good morning, Catherine.
[00:42:58] Catherine: Hi, good morning. Um, I would like to know what are the chances of my uh child um entering Kamehameha schools. Um, he's in the seventh grade now, right? He has a he's on the honor roll. Um, he's athletic.
[00:43:19] Gerry Jervis: Never hurts, right?
[00:43:23] Catherine: What are his chances? I mean Is he Hawaiian?
[00:43:26] Gerry Jervis: He's quarter Hawaiian.
[00:43:28] Richard "Dickie" Wong: Then he has an excellent chance and uh he will have to go through the process like many others. Right, I understand that, but you have a limited um slots available, right?
[00:43:39] Gerry Jervis: Yes.
[00:43:40] Bill: The percentages are are are not good. Dickie, could you kind of walk us through quickly the process and and give us some indication as to um, you know, what percentage of the kids who apply uh can be admitted currently given the size of the operation right now. Um, is that something you can do?
[00:44:00] Gerry Jervis: I'm trying to look it up right now as we speak. Okay, I'll tell you what. Uh Catherine, I'm they're going to look through some papers they've got here and and respond to that in just a bit, but we're going to move on um and take another call in the meantime. Thank you, Catherine. Let's go to Stacy from Kani Ohe. Good morning, Stacy.
[00:44:15] Stacy: Stacy, are you there from Kani Ohe?
[00:44:18] Bill: Stacy? I think we lost Stacy. Eugene. Well, let's try Eugene from Kani Ohe and and we'll try to come back to Stacy in just a bit. Go ahead, Eugene.
[00:44:27] Eugene: Yes, I would like to address this to the immersion program, language programming, and the DOE. Is it effective uh kind of measure to put into the DOE program? If it is, uh is Kamehameha taking anything about including that program into their school? And what's the limitation of having this after high school?
[00:44:47] Richard "Dickie" Wong: No, we really haven't because uh at at the school itself, uh on a daily basis, we uh have a language program that reaches 800 students. and in that sense, uh we're doing that. But there are other uh programs outside of the the Kamehameha school uh main campus that service it like on the Big Island and where they have now uh bought uh a school and which they intend to uh teach uh Hawaiian language as their core uh uh activity and uh that's about all that I know that's happening, but we are not uh anticipating uh expanding the program beyond what's on the campus today. As far as the DOE, uh we would like to encourage people to have them uh definitely include that as part of their curriculum. But do you see any kind of limitation in terms of all the way up to high school and they're preparing to go to college? Jerry? You mean limitation in terms of having learned having gotten all of their education in the Hawaiian language? Yes. Well, I guess that's uh that's a subject for debate. I mean, the proponents of the the immersion program would say no, they're not limited um because you know they try very hard to to to to address that particular problem uh Eugene but uh uh personally, I think it's the kind of question that only time will tell. You know, we have to let the this batch of kids kind of get out into the world into higher education and to see how that uh how that affects them.
[00:46:08] Bill: Okay. Thank you, Eugene. We appreciate your call. And Jerry, I think you've found a statistic for us on on admissions?
[00:46:13] Gerry Jervis: Was that Catherine that was asking earlier uh our statistics show approximately one out of eight applicants uh um is admitted to the schools.
[00:46:22] Bill: Okay. And it is based at least in part on on merits such as whether they've been on the honor roll and that sort of thing?
[00:46:27] Richard "Dickie" Wong: Oh yes, it's it's definitely a merit-based. Well, as the parent of a member of the Puno soccer team, I want to know, do you also go after good strong soccer players because Kamehameha had an awfully strong team this year? Yeah, but I wish we could do that in football and basketball as well.
[00:46:39] Bill: Okay, we've got some more callers. Let's go to Mike from Manoa. Good morning, Mike.
[00:46:43] Mike: Thank you. Yes, my question is similar to Catherine's on the qualifications for entrance into Kamehameha. So it's if it's based on the performance or the quality instead of just who you know, and how we can know what criteria you're using. In other words, let's let's let's ask him that question because I I'm associated with a law school, and we've kind of gone through that recently. You've you've got the reality and then sometimes a perception that's different. Uh I think sometimes people have the impression that admission to Kamehameha is based in large part on on who you know. Or if your parents are alumni.
[00:47:16] Bill: Okay. How about if your father's a trustee? I have a son uh Kanikai Viola, who his application was actually in process at the time that I was appointed, and um we sat down as a family and talked about it and we pulled his application because uh we were concerned of that exact kind of perception in the community that this was People would say, and you know, the admission is based on who you know. It's really not, it's it's based on merit. It's based on how you perform and uh and how well you do in the test and you and your your grades uh you know, coming in. It's it's not based on who you know. Because because if it is based on who you know, then someone in the organization is not telling me something, okay? A what percentage of the people who are admitted have parents who were previous students? We we wouldn't have any stats on that. But again, just to elaborate on what uh Jerry said and to spin off of it, uh the student that comes to Kamehameha, uh certainly academics is is is a high priority. But there are other factors involved. What are those other factors? That's those are the material factors that are there that let the seven out of eight be disqualified when that one out of eight gets in through the It's it's a good question. Let's let's let Dickey answer it. Well, I I I think what you got got to do is that it's the measure of the the outside activities of the child also. What what activities, though? Well, what he's involved in, how he's involved in the community. There There are number of raters who rate every every student that applies and in in those they draw up various factors. One of the factors is community involvement. The other one is cultural involvement, special talents. These there are many factors, but I think they've kind of relegated to about four but academic being the highest. And usually the high achievers are usually those students that have this degree of participation and also some sense of community. And how they do it uh is by test scores with certain ranges and how you score the grid. Some people miss it getting in is they're qualified, they're there, but they we have to have a cutoff point. And at that cutoff point, whatever that point is, beyond that, uh nothing changes. You either make that line or you don't. And uh it's very highly selective.
[00:49:14] Bill: Maybe you're doing this already but but if you're not, would it be a good idea to put in your catalog what the various factors are that your admissions committee takes into account? Jerry? I think we already do that. Uh Mike, with regard to your question about alumni getting their children in, I know that I fielded a lot of uh phone calls at my office. Alumni that are upset that their children are not getting in. So I guess it just depends on what side of the issue you stand. Okay, Mike, we've we've got to move on. I appreciate your call. Um moving very quickly because we only have five minutes of of air time left. Richard from Honolulu. Good morning, Richard.
[00:49:44] Richard "Dickie" Wong: Hi, Randy. Uh, my question involves land use for agricultural purposes. Bishop Estate is a large landowner, and has a lot of interest in agriculture. My particular question has to do with, what is the leasing arrangement uh that is uh utilized by Bishop for those agricultural lands and is it possible for small um small-scale producers to have access to the agricultural lands through some kind of long-term leasing arrangement?
[00:50:13] Richard "Dickie" Wong: Good question. Dickie Wong. The answer is yes. We have 164,000 acres, we just purchased another 30,000 at Hamakua. Uh if if there's anyone out there who feels that he has an activity that is agriculture related, we would encourage him to contact Bishop Estate, or her. Or her. Or her, I'm sorry. Another great offer. Richard, I that that give him a call. Uh I appreciate your call. We've got uh Loni from Kapahulu. Good morning, Loni.
[00:50:37] Loni: Good morning. Um, I'd like to ask what the formula is for the commission for the uh trustees salaries and um if your accounts are um made public. Okay, let me let me answer the first part very quickly because we went over this earlier. There's a state statute that sets a maximum, and what the trustees are taking is that amount minus the amount that is based upon sales of uh single family um fees and and condominium fees and that sort of thing. So they they have a formula of sorts. And the second part of the of the question, Dickie? Well, every year we file a 990 where uh the the the pay of trustees are are presented and also of our chief uh uh principal executives in in the organization. So we file a tax return that is uh public every year on our 990s. So the the public is fully aware. Oh, if they're not, they can be by by obtaining a copy. It is available. Loni, I I have to move on. I I apologize. Wait, no wait. Does this Does this include all your revenues and your expenses of the entire uh not just your just the trustees but the entire Bishop estate as a as a whole? Loni, let me tell you what the formula is. The formula is 2% on gross revenues and that includes everything. The 2%, what we're entitled to is gross revenues on the land sales, we're entitled to money coming in by way of tuition and other kinds of educational receipts. The trustees take no money if it's a land sale based uh revenue stream, and we don't take any money um from the tuition or educational receipts and we essentially, you know, wave all of that and we wave 1% of the of our 2% entitlement. Just by way of comparison, so you have some kind of perspective on this. The trustees of the Campbell Estate get 5%. And and Jerry, the other part of the question are all of the revenues and expenses of the Bishop Estate uh made public? Is it something that uh Loni could get a hold of if she wanted to? The answer is absolutely yes. And that that you can obtain through uh getting looking at a form 990 which we file every year. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Loni, I've got one more caller and I just have time for one more question. So we're we're going to have to move on. I apologize. Kehau from Salt Lake. Good morning Kehau, and and I appreciate your waiting for so long. Thank you. Aloha. Based on your admissions program, I'm going to just use my own child as an example. Um beans that their testing program takes place in December through possibly January and you don't get uh answers till April. Um you said that it's like your Hawaiian, smart, um merit, uh community My child based uh re was not accepted for the seventh grade. She in turn, was uh eight day nines, seven day nines, uh soccer, softball, volleyball, cheerleading, uh references from teachers, um Okay. Name it. She had it, but she was not accepted. And you left for two years. You're left scratching your head on this one, Jerry. I'm I'm sure you get lots of phone calls like this. We have a lot of phone calls like this. Um you're not alone. My heart goes out to you, Kehau. Um, it's just that you know, in different areas we have different quotas and we can accept only so many children. Uh you know, I'm I'm very sorry. Yeah, but based on your areas for um you know your your quotas, how do you do that? Um I'm sorry Kehau. We we've just run out of time. Um I'm going to try to talk uh Dickey and Jerry into coming back sometime, Jerry. Kehau, you can call me at my office, okay? And I'll be happy to talk to you about that. Okay, this is who? Jerry Jervis. Okay, Jerry. Thank you, Kehau. and and if he's not there, the name is Richard Wong. You can call me too. All right. Okay. Aloha. Uh I want to extend my appreciation to all of our callers who were so patient on the line. Uh thank you all uh especially our two guests, Jerry Jervis and Dickey Wong for being on the show this morning. Our technical director is Philip Hutchinson, our producer is Susie Roth and she had help this morning from John Roth, Cassie Roth and Leah Yapp. Next week our topic is crime and punishment in Hawaii. We're going to have police chief Michael Nakamura and director of Services for the Department of Public Safety, Ted Sakai. Dickie? Randy real quick, I hope when you write your next uh book, that you will come to see us to have us talk about the Kamehameha story. Hey, hey another great offer. All right. Um you've been listening to the Price of Paradise Radio Show. I'm Randy Roth. Aloha.
[00:50:49] Richard "Dickie" Wong: Okay. Let me answer the first part very quickly because we went over this earlier.
[00:50:53] Richard "Dickie" Wong: There's a state statute that sets a maximum and what the trustees are taking is that amount minus the amount that is based upon sales of uh single-family um fees and and condominium fees and that sort of thing.
[00:51:05] Richard "Dickie" Wong: So they they have a formula of sorts. And the second part of the of the question, Dickey?
[00:51:08] Richard "Dickie" Wong: Well, every year we file a 990 where uh the the the pay of trustees are are presented and also of our chief uh uh principal.