Hawaiian Autonomy I
Price of Paradise · Hawaii Public Radio · aired 1998-01-11
Guests: Ed Case (State Representative); Mililani B. Trask (Governor, Ka Lāhui Hawaiʻi); William Meheula (attorney); A. Frenchy DeSoto (Chair, Office of Hawaiian Affairs); Kali Watson (Chairman, Hawaiian Homes Commission); Kinau Kamaliʻi (former state legislator; former trustee, Office of Hawaiian Affairs)
Duration: 1:06:06

[00:00:00] Randall Roth: This is Randy Roth, host of the Price of Paradise radio show. We're broadcast live Sunday mornings on KHPR and KKUA and then rebroadcast Sunday evenings beginning at 8 o'clock on KIFO. Everyone who works to bring this program to you is a volunteer who believes in the importance of lively and informed public dialogue. We believe the brightness of any community's future is directly related to the level of activity in its marketplace of ideas. Our topic this morning is the Native Hawaiian Autonomy Act. It's a bill that's being proposed this session in the legislature by Ed Case, who's the chairman of the Committee on Hawaiian Affairs in the House of Representatives. Uh Ed, good morning.
[00:00:43] Ed Case: Good morning, Randy.
[00:00:44] Randall Roth: I've got with me in the studio just Ed, but we've got a number of leaders in the Hawaiian community available by phone and we're going to be going to them in just a few minutes to get their thoughts about this proposal. But Ed, real quickly, can you tell our listeners what it is that you're proposing and why?
[00:01:03] Ed Case: I guess Randy, the first thing I'd like to say is I hope the topic this morning is where should we go in the bigger picture of Hawaiian affairs. I've put this bill forward as a way to to move that discussion along, but I I don't want the bill to be necessarily the focus. I want the big picture to be the focus.
[00:01:17] Ed Case: And I want to start with something that I believe all people that that are going to be talking today will agree with and that is um that the resolution of Native Hawaiian issues is one of the top really the top two or three issues that faces our state um today and will for several um years to come. This is just one effort to try to confront that challenge directly rather than deny it or or avoid it as as perhaps we are with as perhaps we have with so many other difficult issues that we've faced.
[00:01:45] Ed Case: I guess there's there's really five basic concepts uh that this bill tries to go after. The first I've already talked about and that is that a big picture is lacking in in the Hawaiian Affairs area. Um we've taken so many individual um um issues, uh ceded lands, individual claims, Hawaiian language immersion, Department of Hawaiian Home Lands. We have so many other individual issues that are coming at us fairly fast, but there's no cohesion to those issues, really. There's no there's no overall agreement on on how how all of these issues should fit together.
[00:02:14] Ed Case: So one one of the key concepts here is to try to provide that overall picture and see if we can't come up pretty close to some kind of an an agreement on that context.
[00:02:23] Randall Roth: So so more or less just provide the context so that as the various issues come up, those of us who are trying to understand what's going on can can place it into some sort of larger framework.
[00:02:33] Ed Case: Yeah, I mean we have we have to make decisions on individual issues. We have to make a decision based on what our overall agreement is on on on on that particular subject area. So it's hard to make that individual decision if we don't have the big picture agreement.
[00:02:45] Randall Roth: Okay, so point number one, you're trying to develop this big picture.
[00:02:48] Ed Case: Right. I guess the second point is that as you look at Hawaiian excuse me, Hawaiian affairs and the state, and I'll deal primarily with the state at this point, but it also deals very much with the federal government. You see a a real lack of coordination among the various um Hawaiian um um interests, and really you've got a lot of uh of different entities that are all trying to accomplish the same basic thing, which is the betterment of of the Native Hawaiian people. Um the Office of Hawaiian Affairs has has very ably represented uh the Native Hawaiian people, the Department of Hawaiian Home Lands as well.
[00:03:21] Ed Case: And then you've got a number of uh more individual issues, more specific issues: the Kahoolawe Island Island Reserve Council, the Hawaiian language immersion program at the Department of Education. And these entities all have some resources, but they but they lack a a combination of the resources with which they can leverage their overall strength to to really uh move the betterment of the Native Hawaiian people forward.
[00:03:45] Ed Case: So for example, in the in the situation of OHA, which has done a real good job of building up its cash corpus, it doesn't at this point have any land base, although I very strongly believe that OHA or its successor entity will have a major land base inside of five years if we can all keep on track to accomplish that. DHHL has land but little money so far.
[00:04:03] Randall Roth: Okay, no worry and we're going to have to get moving so we can hear from the leaders of the Hawaiian community, but your second point is that there's currently a a lack of coordination and that if the resources were pooled, there would be a a leveraging effect.
[00:04:15] Ed Case: That's true.
[00:04:16] Randall Roth: Third point.
[00:04:17] Ed Case: Third point, self-determination, self-sufficiency, self-reliance, the ability to make decisions for yourself. It's essentially many of the decisions having to do with Native Hawaiians are not being made by Native Hawaiians today. They're may being made by other the state government or the federal government or or other entities. Every year OHA and the Department of Hawaiian Home Lands have to come to the legislature and ask for something. Um many of the decisions that are most intimately involved, for example, the Department of Hawaiian Home Lands are made as a result of federal law by the federal government.
[00:04:46] Ed Case: Uh the federal government for the most part is a long way away from here and doesn't understand what's going on here. I believe that the Native Hawaiian people should make these decisions for themselves. Decisions on very controversial issues such as blood quantum. Uh how much Hawaiian do you have to have to be eligible for what programs? That's a decision that the Native Hawaiian people should make.
[00:05:03] Randall Roth: Okay, and that's where the word autonomous comes from in the Native Hawaiian Autonomy Act.
[00:05:08] Ed Case: Exactly, that's the whole concept right there.
[00:05:09] Randall Roth: Okay, your fourth point.
[00:05:11] Ed Case: I guess the the fourth point really is um one of recognizing uh outstanding historic claims um and again, I will speak here primarily against the state, but certainly these claims uh exist against the federal government as well. The claims really fall into two categories, the one specific category remaining has to do with claims relating to the so-called ceded lands, that the lands that were uh ceded to the state at statehood and and uh ceded really at the time of annexation also a hundred years ago.
[00:05:41] Ed Case: I think it's uh one thing that's been missing in the public debate on this proposal so far, or misunderstood, I should say, is the concept that that is an integral part of this that those claims must be fairly settled and that that settlement will provide the resource base with which the Native Hawaiian people can administer the programs.
[00:05:58] Randall Roth: Okay, so we need to recognize the outstanding claims and get them settled.
[00:06:03] Ed Case: Exactly.
[00:06:04] Randall Roth: And that primarily has to do with the ceded lands which is something like 1.2 million acres. Talking about a lot of land here.
[00:06:10] Ed Case: That's basically all state land today.
[00:06:12] Randall Roth: Okay, any other points?
[00:06:13] Ed Case: One last point, I guess, very quickly, and that is that although I I do believe that the the the the decision on where to go with the overall big picture should primarily come out of the Hawaiian community, it seems to have bogged down. The debate seems to have bogged down there and and this is an effort to try to move that debate forward.
[00:06:34] Ed Case: And another component of that same point is that although the decision should initially come from that Hawaiian community, it really has to involve all of us. It's it's impractical to to think that that we do not have to collectively agree as an entire state on what the overall resolution is going to be. We're going to have to change state constitution, we're going to have to change state laws, we're going to have to fund a lot of money and transfer a lot of land, I believe, if we are to fairly settle this and to think that that is going to happen purely within the Native Hawaiian community is it is unrealistic.
[00:07:07] Randall Roth: Okay, so it's called the Native Hawaiian Autonomy Act. It's just a proposal that you're going to be introducing in a few weeks in this session of the legislature. You've got five primary points. The first one we have to establish a a big picture, so everything else can be put into the proper context. Secondly, currently while individual organizations are doing a fine job as far as they can, if they were put together there would be more coordination, more strength leverage as you put it. Thirdly, a lot of support for self-determination, self-reliance. You see this as pushing it in that direction, in other words, some autonomy from the state and federal governments.
[00:07:44] Randall Roth: Fourthly, we need to recognize the legitimacy of various outstanding claims and very importantly we need to settle those outstanding claims. And then finally you see a a logjam of sorts and you see a need to involve non-Hawaiians and and try to work out some sort of settlement to this whole thing as opposed to just talking about it endlessly.
[00:08:04] Ed Case: That's correct, and then there's specifics in the bill that cover each of those points that perhaps we can get into.
[00:08:08] Randall Roth: Okay, well I hope to do that in six minutes and it took at seven seven minutes. That's not too bad. We're we're close to being on schedule. Well we've got uh a number of leaders in the Hawaiian community on the phone and we're going to go to them one at a time. The plan is to initially, just in a couple of minutes, get a quick reaction from each of them to Ed's proposal and then we're going to have maybe 15 minutes or so to take some calls from listeners.
[00:08:34] Randall Roth: And the last 15 minutes or so of the show, we're going to go back to the leaders from the Hawaiian community and from the Hawaiian organizations and we'll get any thoughts they might have about what they've heard during the hour and any closing remarks that they might want to share with us. Let's start by going to uh Kali Watson. Uh Kali is a graduate of the University of Hawaii, both the business school and the law school. Before that, he was a graduate of the Kamehameha schools.
[00:09:01] Randall Roth: Currently, he's the chairperson of the Hawaiian Homes Commission. Before that, he was a practicing attorney, a deputy attorney general and uh 20 years ago, worked at the Constitutional Convention for Frenchie De Soto who will be hearing from in a bit this morning. Kali, are you there?
[00:09:18] Kali Watson: Yes, I am. Good morning.
[00:09:19] Randall Roth: Good morning. As uh chair of Hawaiian Homes Commission, you are very directly affected by this proposal. Um what are your thoughts on what Ed is proposing?
[00:09:31] Kali Watson: Well, as to the Hawaiian Homelands, uh I I think what's been proposed can't be legally done, especially uh as proposed. Uh he's talking about having the uh trust assets transferred over to this uh non-profit corporation uh with uh state legislative action or through congressional action. I think it's clear under the act, as well as the uh admissions Act, congressional action must initially be taken first before the state can do anything. I think the biggest problem that I have with the proposal is that it undermines our existing program by eliminating a lot of different things, such as our federal loan guarantee programs.
[00:10:12] Kali Watson: Presently we have close to $100 million in FHA VA and rural development loans that uh has really helped our program move ahead and I'd like to see that continue to go. Uh the other thing is uh it basically eliminates the mandate that uh the state funds certain CIP as well as our administrative uh needs uh versus uh, you know, looking to, I guess, take money from the ceded land revenues which funds OHA. The other big problem is uh the bill uh proposes to eliminate uh water rights that are established under the act that provides uh waters to our program uh free of charge.
[00:10:55] Kali Watson: The other main uh problem I have with the bill is that uh it might adversely impact the activities under the Hawaiian Homelands Recovery Act, this uh recent federal act that we're just uh in the process of consummating which may result in about 800 acres coming to our program. The other thing is uh it the bill unilaterally changes the blood quantum requirements from 50% to all Hawaiians to the detriment of, you know, our existing uh uh beneficiaries, which number close to 60,000.
[00:11:28] Randall Roth: Kali, Kali, let me jump in now. You may have some more points. I'm going to give you a chance to make them, but you've um you've put a lot of of things on the list already and and I can't absorb them all at once. And what I thought I would do is take just a moment to see if if Ed has any quick comments on any of your concerns that you've listed thus far and then I'm going to come back to you.
[00:11:50] Ed Case: I guess my major comment is that Kali's points are all very well taken. For example, when he talked about um eliminating water rights under the act, I put this proposal out there to have people tell me what was wrong with it. And uh when I saw Kali's comment, I checked on that and and he is correct. So the the the the revised version of the bill is going to take care of that particular problem. Frankly, I think a lot of what he's saying is is um legit and and is more logistical if one accepts the larger uh con concept of where we're trying to get to.
[00:12:20] Ed Case: So perhaps my my question more than anything else of Kali or any of the other listeners is is the concept sound? I mean is it something that can work in the 5, 10, 15 year window? Obviously it will take a lot of um implementation and and the act does clearly contemplate that federal federal action would be required first. But is the concept of self-determination a direction that we should go in? And and and if so, then then I guess we can start talking about these kind of specifics.
[00:12:47] Randall Roth: Um Kali, before you finish your list of concerns, is this something that given enough time and given the will, uh something that can happen, that could happen, that that could be desirable?
[00:12:59] Kali Watson: Well, no, no doubt about it. I think the Hawaiian community definitely likes the idea of self-autonomy and self-governance and all of that. But I I'm really questioning the uh structural uh setup that we're talking about here, a non-profit governmental entity versus a sovereign entity, which uh this bill says, no, we're not going to have a sovereign entity. I think that's an issue that needs to be addressed by the Hawaiian people, decided by the Hawaiian people, and implemented, obviously with the assistance and uh cooperation of the the community, both at the state and federal level.
[00:13:35] Randall Roth: So, Kali, on a on a philosophical level, is is that what it boils down to that that this denies sovereignty and the direction of autonomy is is is good, but not if it breaks off from sovereignty conversation?
[00:13:49] Kali Watson: Yes, that's correct.
[00:13:50] Randall Roth: Okay. Kali, are are you going to be able to stick with us and and we'll we'll come back to you toward the end of the hour?
[00:13:53] Kali Watson: Yes, I will.
[00:13:56] Randall Roth: Uh that was Kali Watson, who is the chair of the Hawaiian Homes Commission. I'm not sure in in what order we've got folks stacked up on the phone right now, but I'm going to hopefully go next to um uh um let's see, to Mililani Trask, who is the uh Kea Aina, or Governor of Kalahui, Hawaii. Uh Mililani is a native Hawaiian attorney with extensive legal background on native Hawaiian land trusts, resources and legal entitlements. Uh in addition to being uh the head of Kalahui, Hawaii, the sovereign nation of Hawaii, Mililani has worked to organize the Hawaiian community for 17 years on the issues of sovereignty, self-governance, environmental racism, human rights violations and land entitlements.
[00:14:45] Randall Roth: She also is executive director of the Gibson Foundation, a non-profit foundation which deals with affordable housing for native Hawaiians on Hawaiian homelands. Mililani, are you there?
[00:14:55] Mililani B. Trask: I am. Good morning, Randy.
[00:14:56] Randall Roth: Good morning. Mililani, can you in in just a few minutes, uh summarize your thoughts about the proposal that Ed is um discussing this morning?
[00:15:06] Mililani B. Trask: I think that the proposal is patently racist, and I don't think that it's workable at all. It appears to me to be the most recent attempt of the State Democratic Party to curtail Hawaiian sovereignty and avoid state liability for breach of trust for both the 5F and the Hawaiian Homelands Trust. Not to mention the fact that they would also escape liability for 70 years of human rights violations documented by the Civil Rights Commission. I think that one of the big problems is is that the bill does not recognize what self-determination is.
[00:15:39] Mililani B. Trask: Uh we need to have a sovereign entity. If there can be 550 for other Native Americans on the continent, there can be one here. The suggestion that we'd somehow take the state trust obligation and put it into a superpower trust corporation is ludicrous. Uh what are we seeing now with the Bishop estate? We're seeing the failings of a trust corporate structure to address uh native self-determination. Uh I think also that the bill is also not it's not only legally unconstitutional, uh which is probably why Case wants to change the constitution, but it also violates certain provisions provisions of the Admissions Act, which could only be changed by the federal government, that is the Federal Compact.
[00:16:22] Mililani B. Trask: Uh I think it provides a huge windfall to the state. They walk away with over 1.5 million acres of land including submerged lands, all of our water rights, energy resources, marine resources, the submerged lands, the shoals, reefs and atolls. Uh the suggestion is that the Hawaiians would accept 31,000 acres of a bombed out uh island called Kohoolawe and some undisclosed undetermined settlement package that Case is going to come up with next year. Uh it's a violation of self-determination which is defined as the right of the peoples to determine their political status. Uh it does not allow us the right to determine our political status, but instead imposes another democratic solution on the people.
[00:17:09] Mililani B. Trask: It's uh I just think that it's racist and it's ludicrous.
[00:17:12] Randall Roth: So you have a lot of concerns but again, kind of like Kali, it it boils down to the fact that the native Hawaiian community should be deciding what direction to go, and if that's sovereignty as opposed to autonomy, then that should be possible, whereas this bill would eliminate that as a possibility.
[00:17:30] Mililani B. Trask: I think that when you look at what Kali is saying, I'm in agreement with it but your interpretation Randy is not really what I'm saying. Under the American system, autonomy is defined as the right of the native nation to have jurisdiction over its own lands, pass statutory laws uh and implement its laws on its land base. This is not autonomy. This is not what other Native American nations have here or in Alaska. This is creating a superpower non-profit trust corporation like the Bishop estate. It isn't self-determination and it isn't autonomy either and you can't dress it up and make it be something by calling it that.
[00:18:08] Mililani B. Trask: It just is not. It's a it's a move to create another Bishop estate.
[00:18:12] Randall Roth: Okay. Let me give uh Ed a few seconds to comment on that, and then I'm going to give you a few more seconds, and then we have to move on.
[00:18:19] Ed Case: Well I think I think I'm encouraged by the fact that I I believe we're in agreement on the fact that we're talking about the big picture. This is a discussion of the big picture and I think where we end up on that big picture can be a continuum which is somewhere between where we are now, which is virtually nowhere in my opinion, uh just piecemeal decisions being made without any any any continuity among them, all the way really to a to a to a brand of uh self-determination that Mililani has uh very ably espoused for for many years.
[00:18:48] Ed Case: And the question is where on that continuum do we stop and say that we have a a really a consensus in the in the overall community of of that's where we wanted to be. I think we're talking about here a non-profit governmental entity versus a sovereign entity, which uh this bill says, no, we're not going to have a sovereign entity.
[00:19:00] Randall Roth: autonomy I think we're talking about self-determination I think we're talking about the ability to make your own decisions as to your own assets. I'm not exactly sure what we're disagreeing on. Okay Millanni you've got just a few seconds to comment on that and then we'll come back to you later in the hour.
[00:19:14] Mililani B. Trask: I think that uh I think that Ed Case needs to praise himself of what the big picture really is uh he can begin by looking at the fact that there are many native groups that have proposed autonomous solutions. We don't need him to create one. The other thing is is that we do need to build consensus. That's why we've been working among many groups uh in the process called Ho'omalumakuolo under Kina'u Kamali'is uh direction. We've been working on this for a long time. Where's Ed Case been? The big picture is not the Democratic Voice Club intervening in a process, the big picture is Ed Case appraising himself of where his constituents are. Kalo'hui has a democratic and elective constitution. Uh we have presented testimony and federal state bills. We have over 20,000 citizens. We have 85 treaties. My God, where have you been, Mr. Ed Case? We have a comprehensive 8-point proposal out since February of 1995 for a full settlement of our claims and you as the Chair of the Hawaiian Affairs Committee in the House appears to be ignorant and uninformed of it. Get in line with the big picture, Mr. Case. It's not an idea you're going to cram down our throats. You need to work with your constituents and be there to understand what we're saying. Your job is to represent us, not impose your ideas on the Hawaiian people. That's fundamentally a violation of our right of self-determination. Seems simple to get it.
[00:20:42] Randall Roth: I'm I'm going to have to move on can you stay on the line and we can come back to you later in the hour.
[00:20:46] Mililani B. Trask: Yes, Randy.
[00:20:47] Randall Roth: That's great. Thank you so much. That was Millilani Trask who is the Governor of Kalo'hui, Hawaii. Um we move now to someone that Millilani just mentioned and that is Mrs. Kina'u Boyd Kamali'i. Uh she has a long and active career in government and Hawaiian affairs. She served in the State House of Representatives for 10 years and is also a former trustee of the Office of Hawaiian Affairs. President Reagan appointed her Chair of the Federal Native Hawaiian Study Commission and her dissenting report formed the basis of the congressional apology bill. Kina'u is now the Chair of Ho'omalumakuolo, a coalition of Hawaiian organizations, families and individuals dedicated to achieving Hawaiian unity. Kina'u can you hear me?
[00:21:35] Kinau Kamaliʻi: Yes, I can, Randy.
[00:21:37] Randall Roth: Um, good morning, and could you share with us briefly your thoughts about Ed's proposed Native Hawaiian Autonomy Act.
[00:21:44] Kinau Kamaliʻi: First of all, aloha kakahiaka and to the radio listeners. This bill that has been proposed by by Ed Case pretends to end the wardship but then it's greatest expression of treating Hawaiians like children. Ed, we are adults but it's fathered me most is the fact that you have not discussed this with the Hawaiian people. You know as a legislator, you took an oath to uphold the Constitution and to serve the will of the people. I hope the leadership of both the House and the Senate will look at this very carefully because violating your oath and serve only special interests, those wanting to extinguish our claims and cut costs. This is not autonomy, Ed, but a determination of of of our our Hawaiian trust, our rights, and our sovereignty. We need to restore our nation. We need to have our own ability to make our own laws to do what we wanted to do in our own judiciary, to do what we wanted to do with our education. Well this bill, Ed, you must not introduce. I think it's just an absolute slap in the face to all of the people of Hawaii. We have been working extremely hard and coming together as Hawaiians and we have You have the pala pala I like. You know what we have done in the last year as Hawaiians. Please, do not introduce this bill. Particularly when you don't have any intentions of reporting it out according to what you have told me at the past seminar.
[00:23:46] Randall Roth: Kina'u, if you'd stay on the line for a moment, I want to ask Ed a question. And Ed, I'm I'm going to hold off until the end of the hour asking whether your your thinking has changed in terms of your plan with respect to this bill after listening to to all of the the leaders in the Hawaiian community. But for right now, as I understand it, Kina'u is is is accurate in saying that this isn't something that was developed in conjunction with the leaders of the Hawaiian community. That this is something that that you individually developed. Um is that accurate? And and what's your your reaction to that?
[00:24:21] Ed Case: Well it it's it's accurate and I I think um every legislator really faces a little bit of a dilemma on a very large and complex issue such as this. Um eventually things have to be reduced into bill form and something like this is obviously an extremely complex undertaking as as everybody that's on this radio show knows. I I simply chose the approach of of trying to commit ideas to paper and to try to to to see what they looked like when you tried to work out some of the details before putting something out into the public uh for for discussion because I personally felt for better or worse and it could have been a mistake that that would advance the the discussion much better than than than a generalized discussion which didn't focus pretty fast on some of the specific obstacles which need to be overcome. So so I did do it um by myself. Uh always with the intention that obviously there would be the discussion with everybody that was impacted by it and that's really the entire state and so at this point we're at the stage where it's time for public discussion.
[00:25:24] Randall Roth: Okay, Kina'u, any thoughts on that?
[00:25:26] Kinau Kamaliʻi: Well, it's not ready for all the people to discuss. I think you must discuss this with the Hawaiian people first, Ed. You know, and as I as I say, leave the Capitol. We don't need to go down there and testify, uh all opposing what you have done. Leave that Capitol. Come and touch the aina at Kua Loa. Come and see what that spirit will give you, and a glimpse of the beauty of what we are trying to preserve in in our in our dignity and our soul, and through our ancestors. You cannot ever get that feeling by being at the Capitol. Come and meet with us.
[00:26:05] Randall Roth: I I would very much like that. You and I discussed that a few weeks ago. I've always been available and willing to to come out to Kua Loa and do that and I'm happy to do that. Well then don't hold a hearing. Come out to Kua Loa and discuss the bill with us. Okay, Kina'u, can you stay on the line and comment later?
[00:26:21] Kinau Kamaliʻi: Certainly.
[00:26:21] Randall Roth: Great, thank you very much. That's Kina'u Boyd Kamali'i, who is the Chair of Ho'omalumakuolo, a coalition of Hawaiian organizations, families and individuals dedicated to achieving Hawaiian unity. Next on the line we have Bill Meheula. Bill is an attorney who is involved in a lawsuit that seeks to prevent the state from selling seeded lands. I know Bill has also been a member of the Hawaiian Sovereignty Election Council and is very active with Ha Hawaii, which as I understand it is the private successor of the Sovereignty Election Council. Bill, can you hear me?
[00:26:59] William Meheula: Yes.
[00:27:00] Randall Roth: How are you doing this morning?
[00:27:01] William Meheula: Pretty good, thanks.
[00:27:02] Randall Roth: Um, Bill I know from your article in this morning's paper that you too are are critical of this proposal. Can you real quickly kind of summarize why it is that you think this is a step in the wrong direction?
[00:27:15] William Meheula: Well, you know if you take a look at this act, it does two major things. One, it combines the State Control of Hawaiian organizations, uh the HHL, OHA, and the Kahohulawii Reserve. And it does a lot of other things with respect to that. The second thing it attempts to do is to resolve the Hawaiian claims for seeded lands and you know that's the major claim Hawaiians have, that's the overthrow claim. That's the thing that really has um damaged Hawaiians and that's the heart and soul of sovereignty. And and you can't have the legislature just decide, okay, we're going to give X number of acres or X number of dollars and that's it, and and the the claim is gone forever. I mean, what what we need to do is Hawaiians need to get together and need to form an entity that can represent them number one. And then once they have that representative, then they can go ahead and agree on a process with the United States and the State of Hawaii to resolve that claim. You can't just go ahead and do it, you know, by the legislature on its own and it's really scary for Hawaiians now when people like Ed Case do this because they have demonstrated in the past that they are willing to violate the Hawaii Constitution, United States Constitution, their own laws in order to get these releases because they're really scared of these claims. And you know, the the one simple thing that Ed Case could do today if he wants to go forward with this is to commit that he would put a disclaimer in this bill that says number one, there's going to be no resolution of seeded land claims until a Hawaiian entity is formed that Hawaiian voters have have identified an entity that can represent them in these negotiations. And number two, until that entity agrees on a process for resolution. You know, I mean if he's willing to come out and say something like that then maybe we can we can move forward but you know, based on his um track record I don't think that's where he's going. In fact, I think he's going just the opposite and that is to get rid of these claims before the Hawaiians are in a strong enough position to fairly negotiate them.
[00:29:21] Randall Roth: Okay, we're we're running a little bit behind my schedule and so I'm going to have to to get moving. But, Ed, just real quickly a reaction to what you're hearing from Bill and then I want to give Bill the last word and then we'll move on.
[00:29:31] Ed Case: Well I I think we have to be straight that one of the central problems we have in Hawaiian affairs is outstanding claims and I do believe that the resolution the fair resolution of those claims is necessary for us all to proceed. Resolution implies, excuse me, some finality and I think that's of concern to everybody. But the question is is it fair and I think Bill has pointed that out in his article, and he's pointing it out today. I think that's key to to autonomy or whatever you want to call it in the future is were the claims recognized and resolved fairly. There is a process underway right now that came out of last year's legislature which is underway to try to formulate a settlement of the seeded land claims. Um and I hope that process is is successful. I think it has to be successful.
[00:31:51] Randall Roth: suggesting. I think he is I think he's saying that that they do need to be resolved. He's questioning more the the how they get resolved. Bill, is that where we are differences to timing and and just the the the way it gets resolved, but both of you feel these settle these claims have to get resolved.
[00:32:06] William Meheula: Oh yeah, they have to be resolved, but you can't have the perpetrator of of the crime be the one that decides, you know, what is the the right resolution or the right compensation. So not not so much You have to have the victim be represented. And you have to have a process that's fair, and you know, you just can't have the legislature say, okay, we're going to give X number of acres and that's it.
[00:32:46] Ed Case: Yeah, briefly the the the process underway with Act 329 includes very much includes the Office of Hawaiian Affairs, they are they are full participants in that process. And they are the current administrators of the public land trust for native Hawaiians, they're very much involved.
[00:33:06] Randall Roth: Bill, I'm I'm going to have to move on, but I'm going to come back to you a little bit later in the hour. Is that okay?
[00:33:11] William Meheula: Yeah, you know, um I'll talk to Susie about another number. Thanks.
[00:33:14] Randall Roth: Okay, great. Thank you. Uh our our last voice on the phone that we have arranged uh we arranged ahead of time is Frenchie DeSoto. Frenchie is the Chair of OHA, the Office of Hawaiian Affairs. And in fact, she was the Chair of the Hawaiian Affairs Committee back in the 1978 Con-Con and and is seen by many people as uh as the central figure in the um the creation of OHA. Frenchie, can you hear me this morning?
[00:34:11] A. Frenchy DeSoto: Yes, good morning.
[00:34:12] Randall Roth: Good morning and thank you for joining us. You've heard um four of your fellow leaders in the Hawaiian community comment on Ed Case's proposed Native Hawaiian Autonomy bill which he's going to be introducing in the legislature or at least has announced that he's going to be doing that this coming session. What are are your thoughts?
[00:34:40] A. Frenchy DeSoto: Well, first I'd like to take a small second to uh say aloha to my sisters and and to my brothers, uh natives as I am, and wish them the best from my ohana and to them. I uh believe that this bill is a dangerous bill. Um but it's not surprising. Because if you read the bill, it attempts to use plenty of politically correct terms such as autonomy that appeal to many. I might even say it is purposely used uh to become a divisive instrument in our community. It actually does the opposite by continuing to place our lands under the state's regulatory control and sends uh and is intended to further reduce the state's um constitutional Admissions Act and court ordered obligation to Hawaiians. This is real sad. You know, I never thought I would live uh this long and I have seen the reign of four um governors, uh for for the Hawaiian people to come to this point. Um, you know, I don't even want to discuss that bill. It upsets me so bad that we are treated like wards. We're dealing with the attitudes and the constraints of attitudes about native people and whether they can control their own destiny. For years, I'm 68 years old. I know what this state has failed to do for its native people. I I experienced that racism and that colonial attitude towards us. And I thought that we had gone we had got over that. That the world teaches us that there is room in your homeland for you to exist. Now, just because the Pookala, they want to get rid of us. They have an obligation. We're a state because of the Admissions Act. The Admissions Act said, hey you guys, you agree to become a state under these conditions, then fulfill your conditions. Real hila-hila, Ed. Real hila-hila, because this is really bad. Who are you for determine for us that this is the time. Our people will determine even if they must march in the streets.
[00:37:11] Randall Roth: Frenchie, can you stay with us and uh share some closing comments in in about a half hour or in about 20 minutes?
[00:37:17] A. Frenchy DeSoto: Well, I I just need to tell you Randy, you need to excuse me because I must go up to Kani Akia. I will meet uh members of Oho, who gave a magnificent performance last night. Uh they will come and bring um their foliage so that we can replant and uh help to Canudo. This is another thing Ed's trying to do for the guys who get the money is to stop us in our access uh to gather our gathering rights. Have a have a kiah.
[00:37:49] Randall Roth: Okay, Frenchie, thank you very much for joining us this morning and for sharing your thoughts in writing in this morning's Advertiser. That was Frenchie DeSoto, who is the Chairperson of the Office of Hawaiian Affairs.
[00:38:00] Randall Roth: of Hawaiian organizations. Our topic again is Native Hawaiian Autonomy Act. We've got just one, actually now we have two open lines, and we've got a few minutes to take some calls, and then the last 15 minutes of the show, we're going to reserve for going back to what now are the four leaders in the Hawaiian community who are still on the line, and we're going to get just a couple of minutes of closing comments from them, and then a couple of minutes from Ed at the end of the show, including what his his thinking is at that point in time.
[00:38:29] Randall Roth: Uh we have Steve from Waikiki on the line. Steve, very quickly, any thoughts on the Native Hawaiian Autonomy Act?
[00:38:35] Caller: Yes. Uh, good morning. Excellent show, really important question and excellent discussion. Uh what, and obviously, a great deal of of of disagreement on the issues, but one thing I think everyone can agree with uh is that we're talking about big bucks. We're talking about lots of money, lots of land, lots of power. So the question comes up is, who will benefit? Now, the word that's often used in this discussion is the Hawaiian people, but uh this is it's not exactly clear who this group is. And Ed said in his introduction that he thought this is something that the the quote, the Hawaiian people should decide for themselves. Though, and he mentioned the question of of deciding the blood quantum issue, and this seems to me to be a Catch-22, a circular sort of thing. I mean, who's going to vote on who's going to decide, because obviously, if the vote is broad, then you're going to get a decision that the broadest possible group should be included. If the if if the voters who vote on it are narrow, then they will probably vote that their narrow group should be included.
[00:39:34] Randall Roth: Steve, let me let me ask Ed how the blood quantum issue and just the question of who decides what is resolved by this bill.
[00:39:44] Ed Case: Well, I think I what I'd like to do is comment on the who will benefit. This this area is a question of of benefiting the the indigenous people of Hawaii. In the process of resolving uh outstanding disputes have any to do with um Native Hawaiians, I think we will all benefit. I think we have to do it for us all to benefit. Now the question of blood quantum is a difficult one. I believe that we we collectively must set up this Native Hawaiian um entity or something that resembles it, and that that entity should decide exactly which Native Hawaiians will benefit. I believe it's up to that entity to decide whether they believe that 50% or more should should should have 100% of the resources or whether whether 25% or less. But I see no reason for the federal government from 5,000 miles away to dictate. Nor do I see any reason for the state of Hawaii uh to dictate that. I think that's up to the Native Hawaiian people. It's a difficult undertaking, but they're the ones that should be doing it.
[00:40:46] Caller: Steve, you need to respond to the circularity of the argument, which is that who is to decide will the people who are designated to do the deciding will uh ipso facto decide for themselves. I mean, in other words, there's a great circularity here and Steve, you've made your point you've made your point very well. No, I appreciate you really have made your point very well, but we've got a limited amount of time for calls this morning. Thank you for yours. We go to Wendel from the Big Island in Hilo. Good morning, Wendel.
[00:41:11] Caller: Hello, good morning. I'm calling from Puna, Hawaiian Homes. I've been living on Hawaiian Homes for the last 23 years. I've seen three governors and I've seen five directors. Still today, Hawaiian Homes haven't produced any motivational items to make us uh uh more self-sufficient. You have to do it on your own. Another item is uh OHA. OHA has been going and everything. They they've been fighting within their system. What I'm saying is Department of Hawaiian Homes and OHA, and I agree with Mr. Case, it's a wake-up call. These two organization, Hawaiian Homes and OHA, should be an entity by itself outside of the state control.
[00:41:50] Randall Roth: Okay, Wendel, thank you very much. That's Wendel from the Big Island.
[00:41:53] Caller: supporting Case and the wake these Hawaiians up. You got to wake up.
[00:41:57] Randall Roth: Okay. Thank you for your call this morning. My wife just told me that I I I got to tell people that our number is 955-8821, on the Neighbor Islands, 1-800-955-8821. Not everybody's a regular listener, so uh the number again is 955-8821. And we've just got a a couple more minutes for for calls. We have uh Dr. Keikuni Blazdell on the line from Niu Uanu. Um uh Keikuni? Hey, oh, this is Keikuni.
[00:42:24] Randall Roth: Aloha and and as I think most most, if not all, of our listeners realize that uh you two are a leader in the Hawaiian community, and if we had the time, we certainly would have included you in and some more important voices, but we didn't, but thankfully you've called in. Very quickly, what are your thoughts on this bill?
[00:42:43] Caller: Randy, I'm very concerned that Ed Case completely ignores the fact that we Kanaka Maoli are the colonized people, and therefore, we Kanaka Maoli have the right to self-determination in our own homeland. And this bill that he proposes does not recognize that important fact, based in international law, and I think he needs to know about this as well as the other pieces of information that he seems to have ignored that have been raised by our fellow Kanaka Maoli on your program.
[00:43:23] Randall Roth: Okay. And Keikuni, I assume it's fair to say that you would pretty much echo what what other leaders in the Hawaiian community have said this morning.
[00:43:30] Caller: Yes, but I'm trying to make this basic point in international law, and that is we Kanaka Maoli have been deprived, and are being deprived of our self-determination. We are the colonized people, and the colonizer has to recognize this and recognize the process of decolonization.
[00:43:49] Randall Roth: Okay. Keikuni, I I have to move on. Thank you very much.
[00:43:52] Caller: Okay. Thank you.
[00:43:53] Randall Roth: We've got another couple minutes for calls. Let's go to Milton from Diamond Head. Good morning, Milton.
[00:43:59] Caller: Good morning uh ladies, gentlemen. Um, I think uh the Mr. Case um and the state and even the federal government doesn't have the right idea. Even England realized that they had to get out of Hong Kong after 100 years of uh of occupation there. I think the state should concentrate on the dismantling and handing over the control of the Hawaiian Islands back to the Hawaiian people. Thank you very much.
[00:44:27] Randall Roth: Okay, thank you, Milton. We go to Sean in Waikiki. Good morning, Sean.
[00:44:31] Caller: Uh good morning. Thank you for um for the your program. Uh I agree. Hawaii should be independent. Why should it be a part of a country that's $5 trillion in debt? Because as long as the uh the ceded lands are held hostage by the federal government, that could be used as land to pay off the debt. You know, Hawaiians really need to think about this. You know, um being part of America I think is doing more harm than good. Um that's just my opinion. Thank you very much for listening.
[00:44:54] Randall Roth: Okay, thank you, Sean. Well, it's a quarter to 9:00 and I want to be sure to give each of our leaders in the Hawaiian community a a couple of minutes to um share any closing thoughts that they might have, and uh so let's go back to if if we have Bill Meheula back on the line at No, we don't have him yet. So let's go back to uh Kinau Boyd Kamali'i. Um, Kinau, can you hear me? Kinau, can you hear me? Nope, we don't have her back yet. How about uh Kali Watson? Is Kali on the line?
[00:45:28] Kali Watson: Yes, Randy.
[00:45:29] Randall Roth: Okay. Kali Watson is the chair of Hawaiian Homes Commission. Kali, you've heard um other leaders in the Hawaiian community, you've heard Ed Case uh comment on some of their comments. You've heard just a handful of of callers who um who we didn't arrange ahead of time to uh to share their thoughts. You've heard them. Uh you've got just a a couple of minutes tops to share any thoughts that you have at this point in the show.
[00:45:55] Kali Watson: You know, first of all, I'd like to just say that uh, you know, I have to give Ed Case some credit. I mean, everybody's blasted him and, you know, but one thing that I think is important about this whole discussion is that there is an ongoing discussion regarding maybe the consolidation and eventual sovereignty efforts of the Hawaiian people. While his his the means or vehicle that he's talking about might be inappropriate, I think it's a healthy discussion. So I have to give Ed uh some credit for that. However, uh with with respect to his bill, you know, I I think that uh again, I'm going to have to stress that I think it it may have some real adverse impacts on our existing program. I think the fact that we now have the $600 million, some new state, as well as uh some federal lands that are coming in, as well as a success, well at least I think now a successful uh department that's moving ahead with uh projects throughout the state that we should be allowed to continue to do that. Another thing I kind of see that uh the problem that I see with the bill is that there's an assumption that the existing organizations in the Hawaiian community cannot work together. I think that's false in a sense that in the last few years uh we've been working with OHA, they've created a $30 million loan program. Bishop Estate is starting to build schools in the homestead areas. QLCC now has facilities, as well as Queen Emma is looking to do the same. So there's a lot of things that are going on in the Hawaiian community by the different Hawaiian organizations that are are starting to really uh make progress and are becoming successful and I'd like to see that continue.
[00:47:33] Randall Roth: Okay. Thank you, Kali. We really appreciate uh your participation this morning.
[00:47:37] Kali Watson: Thank you.
[00:47:38] Randall Roth: That was Kali Watson, who is the chair of the Hawaiian Homes Commission. You know, Ed, rather than have you comment on each of of the comments that you're going to listen to um for the next 10 or 12 minutes, if you'll just take some notes and then um share your thoughts uh once we've we've heard from from all of the others. Uh let's go next to um uh Kinau Boyd Kamali'i. Kinau, are you there?
[00:48:01] Kinau Kamaliʻi: Yes, I am, Randy.
[00:48:03] Randall Roth: Um, you've had an opportunity to hear others comment, including some of our listeners, uh in just uh two minutes tops, any uh closing thoughts that you might want to give us?
[00:48:13] Kinau Kamaliʻi: First of all, I I want to say to Ed, uh hear us, Ed. Listen carefully. Uh number one, I agree with all of those who have been invited to participate this this morning, and I also want to say that the Ho'omalumakualoa and the Palapala Ailike, which is a formal document of agreements, written by Hawaiians, is clear and explicit in the recognition of traditional practices, self-determination, and the scope of our claims. The steering committee of Ho'omalumakualoa will be meeting on January 14th, this coming Wednesday, from 5:00 to 8:00 at the University of Hawaii Hawaiian Studies. I invite all of you to come. We need to discuss a a February Ho'omalumakualoa under our big tent, Mr. Case, and I hope that that will uh come to fruition so that you can be here to discuss your bill and not at the capitol. We need to also to uh look at the process to this self-determination as we have been, and finally bring that to a conclusion, and we need to to set up the mechanism for the settlement of our land claims. These pieces of legislation need to be written, and it should not be through your bill. Please, Ed, let us do this in a way that is pono to all of the citizens of the state of Hawaii.
[00:49:42] Randall Roth: Okay. Thank you very much, Kinau.
[00:49:43] Kinau Kamaliʻi: Thank you.
[00:49:44] Randall Roth: That's Kinau Boyd Kamali'i, who is the chair of Ho'omalu Ma Kualoa, a coalition of Hawaiian organizations. Let's go now to Mililani Trask, who is the uh governor, and and I've I've seen in different places sometimes it says governor, sometimes prime minister of Kalahui, Hawaii. Mililani, are you there?
[00:50:05] Mililani B. Trask: Yes, I am.
[00:50:06] Randall Roth: Um, I what is the the Hawaiian term and what's the best translation of it so far as your position with Kalahui, Hawaii?
[00:50:13] Mililani B. Trask: The Hawaiian term is Kia Aina, which means one that has general oversight of the Aina, of the land. The western definition in the dictionary is both prime minister and governor, but neither term really speaks to the responsibility that I have in in in having general oversight of of the business of the nation.
[00:50:31] Randall Roth: Okay. Uh for my closing comments, what I wanted to say is this, uh many different factions and groups in the Hawaiian community uh realize that we need to have a good faith effort to build consensus. Uh we are trying to address that in many forums including Ho'omalumakualoa and other educational forums. Uh this is where the dialogue really needs to uh begin and this is where Mr. Case needs to be. Uh Kalahui Hawaii has proposed the comprehensive uh settlement format and structure. It's called Ho'okupu A Kalahui Hawaii. We put it on the table for discussion and for comment. Uh if Mr. Case is really acting in good faith, then we need to see him make the effort to solicit from the Hawaiian community their proposals for autonomy and to participate with us in a general discussion, rather than trying to circumvent our efforts by imposing uh uh proposals such as this. I very much regret that Mr. Case has taken this approach because he's created an incendiary situation in this year, the hundredth anniversary of the illegal annexation of our lands. But I want to say that Kalahui Hawaii and myself are very committed to working on consensus building. Uh we have a nation, we have accomplished a great deal, but we're still at Ho'omalumakualoa with other organizations that are smaller and that are less organized than we are, because we're committed to consensus building. I'd like to see some good faith effort uh coming from Ed Case in this direction. I think that if he proceeds with this bill, uh it's going to blow up in his face and that's something that would be very detrimental to the Hawaiian community. We don't need instances that will cause more disruption. We need to have everybody work together to build consensus and I really I really regret that this approach has been taken and I you know, I'm hoping that we can get this thing back on the right track uh by opening up some room for diversity. Uh we have never seen diversity uh accommodated by the state, it's not accommodated in this bill, it was not accommodated in the Sovereignty Elections Council bill, but that's what we need.
[00:52:39] Randall Roth: Okay. Mililani, we we just we have to to go so that we can hear from everybody. Um, I really appreciate your participation this morning.
[00:52:46] Mililani B. Trask: Thank you for including us, Randy.
[00:52:48] Randall Roth: You bet. That's Mililani Trask who is the Kia Aina, or Prime Minister Governor of Kalahui, Hawaii, the Sovereign Nation of Hawaii. Um, we've got uh Bill Meheula yet to hear from. I I just want to let you know though my my wife Suzy, the producer of this show has written a little note in the window uh suggesting that we continue this show next week uh during the uh 8 minutes or so that we could take calls. The buttons lit up immediately and as soon as somebody hung up uh the button lit up again. And it's just real clear that we need to let a lot more people from the community share their thoughts about uh Ed's proposal and the various issues that are a part of that proposal. So, we're going to continue the topic next week. We'll figure out between now and then exactly uh who the guests are going to be and how we're going to structure it, but one thing we'll do for sure then that we didn't get to do today is is to hear a lot of different voices from our listeners. Uh Bill Meheula, you're on the line?
[00:53:46] William Meheula: Yes, Randy.
[00:53:47] Randall Roth: Uh Bill is uh an attorney in a lawsuit that seeks to prevent the state from selling ceded lands and and the ceded lands are about 1.2 million acres, or at least those that are up for grabs are about 1.2 million acres here in the state and he was a part of the Hawaiian Sovereignty Election Council and currently is with Ha, Hawaii. Bill, you've had an opportunity to listen to uh almost an hour of of different thoughts on all of this, what are what are you thinking right now?
[00:54:12] William Meheula: You know, I'm thinking the same thing that that it's scary for Hawaiians anytime that uh you have uh legislators with a history of denying Hawaiians their rights uh taking the charge in trying to resolve the major claim, the claim for the ceded lands. Um, you have to Hawaiians have to be very careful whatever comes out with this bill and if the last moment they're going to change it uh as they have in the past, to include releases that release this very valuable claim, like you said, 1.2 million acres that the state controlled. You know, I'm not just saying this in a vacuum. Ed Case uh was involved in the legislation for the $600 million Hawaiian Homeland settlement and I was involved in that also. And what happened was at the end, he introduced changes to the bill that expanded the scope of that uh release. The 600 million was for a defined set of claims that were negotiated uh by beneficiaries of the Hawaiian Homelands Trust on the one hand and the state of Hawaii on the other. They came up with 600 million for resolution of these set the defined set of claims. And then what happened was they expanded the release at the last moment to include other claims. And without negotiation, without compensation, and that's not fair in anyone's book. I've been a litigator for 20 years and I've never done that to anyone. And yet, Mr. Case has done that to the Hawaiians and I think that with that kind of track record, Hawaiians have to be careful.
[00:55:39] Randall Roth: Okay. That's Bill Meheula, who's with Ha, Hawaii, and and before that, the Hawaiian Sovereignty Election Council. Bill, thank you very much for um sharing your thoughts with us this morning. Well, we're down to the last five minutes or so, and uh before I turn all of that time over to Ed Case, I want to encourage you to watch Channel 2 News tonight at 6:00 and at 10:00. We've got Rod Antone and Buddy the cameraman down here and we are sure they'll do a great report on this show, just as they often times have done in the past. Ed Case, you're the chair of the Hawaiian Affairs Committee in the House of Representatives, um you're out there kind of uh on your own, uh I I'm not sure what the right uh metaphor would be, but uh you've uh taken a a position where a lot of people are taking shots at you right now for better or worse they're saying that that you shouldn't have put this proposal together that it's premature, ill-advised, etc., etc. A lot of criticism. Um, what you're thinking now after listening to all of that, what are your plans so far as this coming session is concerned?
[00:56:43] Ed Case: Well, I guess the first overall comment is I I really don't believe that I'm out there on my own. One of the real challenges in in in many issues in the state and it's particularly true in the area of Hawaiian Affairs is is essentially what I think is a silent majority who who simply they don't step forward to to voice um perhaps their their views.
[00:57:06] Ed Case: Um I have uh many Native Hawaiians that kind of come into my office or catch me somewhere or another in a private one-on-one conversation that say, yeah, I agree I agree with what what you're doing. I agree we have to resolve these things. I agree with the idea of autonomy. I agree with the idea of self-determination. The gentleman that called from the Big Island may just be one example of that.
[00:57:24] Ed Case: And one of the real frustrations in Hawaiian affairs is determining exactly who who believes what and and and reaching a judgment on what is the the the course of action that's really the the moderate middle course of action that most people will reach consensus on because I really believe that we can get to somewhere around an 80% agreement um on and on a big picture approach from both the Native Hawaiian community and from the non-native Hawaiian community in Hawaii. We're never going to get the last 10 or 20%. Uh it's it's and and 10 or 20% on both sides of the issue.
[00:57:57] Ed Case: You know, there's some people that out there in our state, perhaps a growing number, that believe we've given enough for Native Hawaiians, and those people are very vocal, too. So it's a tough job to to try and find that middle, but I certainly don't feel alone on it. I I think that there there are many people that generally agree with this approach. Um I guess I have a couple of uh closing thoughts, very very briefly briefly. First of all, I I do want to thank you for kind of uh um your efforts to revive the art of constructive dialogue. I think this has been constructive.
[00:58:27] Ed Case: Um there's a lot of work to do. Um it is a dangerous time, as some of the people have pointed out. I think a historic opportunity for the overall resolution is escaping us, and I think we've got to move forward on it. Um I do believe in the legislative process. I'm a legislator. I believe it's my job to put ideas out there for public discussion, and I believe it's my job to provide a forum in which they are heard, and that forum is the legislature, and I and I believe that this is, as I've already said at the beginning, one of, if not the most important, two or three issues that face our state.
[00:59:02] Ed Case: Um my intention is to hear the bill. My intention is not to report it out of the committee. It's obviously not developed, it's obviously divisive, but the discussion is a good one.
[00:59:11] Randall Roth: You said to not report it out of the committee?
[00:59:13] Ed Case: I I you know, you can't report a bill like this out of the committee if you don't have a general consensus on it and it's it's obvious that that in the short period of time remaining until I would be required to report this out of committee, which would be three to four weeks, there's no way that that consensus would develop. There's many uh other efforts that are going on as as uh Kinaoo has rightly pointed out as well as others, but I believe that introducing the bill is the right thing to do. It is my job, and I believe that uh hearing the bill is the right thing to do and it is my job.
[00:59:34] Ed Case: as well as others, but I believe that introducing the bill is the right thing to do. It is my job, and I believe that uh hearing the bill is the right thing to do and it is my job. Um and so I I ask everybody to step forward and participate in that part of the discussion as well as the many other discussions that are that are occurring, and I think that can be very productive.
[00:59:54] Randall Roth: Okay. Well, that's Ed Case, who's the chair of the Hawaiian Affairs Committee in the House of Representatives. You also heard this morning from Mililani Trask, Kana'i Boyd, Kamali'i, Colli Watson, Bill Mehe'ula, and Frenchie Desoto. The producer of the Price of Paradise radio show is Suzie Roth. Our technical wizard this morning was Ryan Kampuspos. Uh Suzie had help from John Roth, Wally Roth, and two of Wally's friends, Craig and Rachel visiting from the University of Wisconsin. If you missed the show in its entirety, you can tune in tonight, or if you just caught part of the show, you can tune in tonight on KIFO 1380 AM, and hear the entire replay.
[01:00:32] Randall Roth: Next week we're going to continue this conversation with an emphasis on voices from the community. You've been listening to the Price of Paradise radio show, aloha.